Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Im in need of some help and advice if possible :)

can virgin change the price they offered me and set some very unfair terms that only apply to me ?
it all started in november when my perfect reliable service died and internet use and tv services stopped working most of the day after 50mb was available in my area ... the exact details here (understanding b/w graphs on 50mb) http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...s-on-50mb.html

after it was sorted out i rang virgin to get my bills sorted out and they offered me compensation to clear the old balance and wipe the charges for service i hadnt recieved and then they offered an upgrade at reduced rate for loyalty or basically because i wasnt under contract so i accepted the offer and everything was fine until last few weeks .... V+ box would reboot when watching anything recorded or it would record the wrong programes and on-demand never works but they never bothered me so i wasnt fussed until my 50mb broadband started acting up and the modem would lose its lock and disconnect me until usually 30 secs later it would lock on and work ok until the next loss so i rang faults and had an engineer out on bank holiday monday so i didnt lose any wages and then it was escalated he said and again next engineer i booked for the following bank holiday monday . full details here (point virgin in the right direction) http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/11...gin-right.html

after all the messing about and numerous phone calls they say its my power levels and they cant or wont fix it :( but .... i was still prepared to put up with it and at least they admit it has issues :)
but after today they've changed their minds and decided i have my service to cheap so they now say that the deal THEY offered me cant stay and that the customer relations or retensions agent shouldnt of offered me the deal so the price has gone up :shocked: and im also under a new contract so i must pay .... i agreed at the discounted price but now i cant have that price so how can i be under a new contract ?
on top of that i dont have any rights now that every other customer gets

* all contact with virgin media must be through the chief executives office with a flag on my account ordering people not to speak with me

* they wont fix the fault because ive been told they wont

* any future loss of service is tough and any credits due with no service wont apply

* stuck with a new contract for another 10 months

* as its the CEO office i cant complain and cant ask cisas for help because they wont dead lock me or send any letters

* cant go back to my old contract and services because the prices have went up and my price and package no longer exists

surely this is illegal aswell as very unfair and how can they apply terms that apply to me only ? :confused: i didnt even want the extra box or channels but as they said free V+ box and install i thought yeah why not and the extra channels were cheap so i thought its nice to have more choice .... then 2 months later they change their minds and not only do the freebies not work they aint free any more :mad:

Re: Legal advice please virgin medias hate campaign to boot me
 

Re: Legal advice please virgin medias hate campaign to boot me
 

If VM don't want to fulfill their side of the contract, they won't and no-one can make them, not even CISAS as I've already found out. I really do feel for you because I've experienced some of the same but not to the level you have.

As Tarantella has already suggested your only option looks like taking them to court.

This company really is a joke, and not a very funny one. OFCOM aren't much better for allowing them to carry on like this. And it's not the front line staff (whom I've found to be very helpful), the rot is firmly at the top with business decisions being taken that are deliberately breaching people's contracts for months on end.

Re: Legal advice please virgin medias hate campaign to boot me
 

How much were you paying (for what) at this discounted rate?

---------- Post added at 22:25 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------

And what was the total accumulated value of credits you have received

Re: Legal advice please virgin medias hate campaign to boot me
 

IF you have agreed a contract with VM, over the phone, it is termed as a 'verbal contract' and VM should have files on that, IF you have taken details from whom you have spoken too. You have a good case to to court, but be careful, big companies have ways of getting round this sort of thing.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

They dont dispute the services and price i was offered .... they say that at the time though my account was managed by the CEO and because it was customer relations who agreed the contract he was unauthorized to do so even though his manager also aproved it :(

I didnt even want the V+ box because i already had my downstairs box linked upstairs so what ever shows on the downstairs box also shows upstairs and im not lazy so i used to nip down and change channels or set a reminder to auto change at start
The extra channels are not worth having and never watch them anyways so ive gained nothing of any use to me but when something is cheap or free you dont mind taking them.

I just think its wrong to be offered something and then told i shouldnt have it but as i do i must keep it and pay fortunes for it :( maybe if i liked and used the new features or even if they worked regularly id be ok but they dont and when they do have a fault im refused an engineer because they cant fix the high upstream power without affecting other customers in the area :(

If it was part of the terms and conditions applied to all it wouldnt be so bad but its not .... its me only and they change them to suit themselves or screw me :( i cant win and if the agent wasnt authroized then how come the new contract is valid ?

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

"if the agent wasnt authroized then how come the new contract is valid ?"

Therein lies the crux of your argument.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Agreed, the Agent wasn't authorised to offer you the contract on the terms that they did, therefore the whole contract should be invalid - ie. no obligation on their part to meet the price that you agreed to and no obligation on your part to continue to pay for the service.

Tell them that, by their own admission, the contract is void and demand that they release you from your obligation. If they fail then tell them that you're going to start court proceedings. Then go down to see your solicitor, explain the situation to them, and get them to write you a nice letter to the effect that VM have 14 days to confirm that you've been released from your contractual obligations on the grounds that VM themselves have failed to keep to the terms that they agreed - with a bit of luck that should get their attention.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

I agree partly with RobM CFT, What what would do is this, the agent offers you the deal, that is it, DEAL, if they go back on that deal, even though CEO can get involved you sue, l would, A deal is a deal to me, no matter who from VM, they are 'acting on behalf of VM' this is a contract, this is why my wife deals with it, ANY saleman who l deal with, l keep them to there promises, if they break that promise, bang, l go right to the top, not pen pushes, right to the top, and l reckon you should do the same.

Threaten them with legal action, that works.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

I was told this by several engineers and it looks like this is complete garbage. It got to the point where the staff on the newsgroup were telling me to get the engineer to ring an area manager if they told me this again. As it turned out the problem was corrected at their end and I never had to tell the engineer how to do his job (of which I am glad). The bottom line is that you really need to check in to this more. Start a thread on the Virgin support newsgroup and query this point.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

After speaking to a solicitor it seems i do have a valid contract and virgins poor internal communications process that allowed the price/contract to be made is not my fault and its not my responcibility to check agents have the authorization to make offers or deals :)

The bad news though means more time spent trying to get get virgin to do the right thing and my faults still exist :( ive watched my upstream power jump about all day and both tv boxes do the same aswell as pre rs errors and post rs errors that from reading about they are all related and the cause of my issues .... but i cant get it fixed or possible work arounds because im not allowed to talk to anyone or rather they cant talk to me :(

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Its funny I never have problems with my service from them and never have done, maybe they treat high spending customers better???

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

I'm just wondering why your account has been flagged as "all contact with virgin media must be through the chief executives office with a flag on my account ordering people not to speak with me"?

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

The fact is that the person who offered you the favourable contract is an employee of VM, and as such the offer is from VM.

As has been pointed out, if VM are basically saying that they have no obligation to provide you with that offer, then you have no obligation on your side.

A county court can decide on whether a contract is unfair or not, you could go down that route.

At times VM can and do act like a bunch of cowboys who do not know what their right hand is doing, and then when the proverbial hits the fan they stand their ground lying " We never told you this and that "......

And here lies another example of their incompetency.:rolleyes:

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Since you have sought advice from a solicitor, who appears to back you, have you got him to write to VM on your behalf? That would seem to be the next step....

Just puzzled as to why your account has been marked fao CEO, is this because he is supposed to be looking in to the problem with the power levels?

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

My account ended up escalated to the CEO because i was one of the 1st in my area to get 50mb and then they rang up and asked what it was like .... my report wasnt glowing so it ended up escalated and then a virgin employee surgested emailing the CEO so i did

The cause of my faults seem to be high power levels but it will cost money to fix so they then decided to try and end my contract , when i said no i want them to restore my once perfect service the following day they decide my contract isnt valid :(

Virgin media isnt perfect and you cant have 100% working ... thats fair enough and same with any product or service but i wont pay for something im charged for and dont recieve and thats why they dont like me :( i can easy get 50mb speed at my home but when the network is over used because of over selling i lose speed and even that dosnt bother me because 50mb is way over what i need or use but because of traffic management and we have 2 pc's 1 laptop and 2 consoles we need 50mb or get restricted (online games uses lots of bandwidth apprently) or the on-demand services costs £7 per month but there are limits to how many people in 1 area can use at once so if im charged for something i cant use through no fault of my own why shouldnt i ask for money back ?

i might be a moan but i pay my bills on time like i said i would but virgin dont give me the award winning service they said they would

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

I told you so, l should be a solicitor, if you threaten a company with legal action, and you know you are right, big companies think they can walk over you, but they can't. And that includes VM.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

No, they don't. All customers are treated with contempt.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Indeed. Nothing starts a shift for Virgin Media workers quite like the daily hate. It's somewhat akin to the old IBM songbook, only with more swearing.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

You're right, Arthur - you should be a solicitor.

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

They're probably just returning the love..... :D

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Over the years, Foreverwar, l have given out some good legal advice, only through what l have had to deal with, do you want some advice, as it is you, l won't charge you anything.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

I reckon you could make a good living as a legal advisor Arthur, some of the posts on CF prove that.;)

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Arthur, thank you for your kind offer, it is most appreciated.

Fortunately for my family, the god-mother of our children (and my wife's best friend) is a Regional Crown Prosecutor, who, if her own 25 years of extensive legal experience is lacking in specific knowledge of any of the many abtruse and arcane areas of the law, has access to a wide range of subject matter experts in legal matters; so, I may not have to call upon your undoubted depth and breadth of knowledge of the law - but it's the thought that counts.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

thanks for the advice :) but all sorted and they will honour it and they even managed to find and fix the fault ... only took 8 months but turned out to be a faulty tap in the pit

so i now have a working service and at a price im happy with :)

big thanks to Tim ward in the CEO office :) nice bloke and organised a fault team within 2hrs and agreed ive had shocking service.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Glad you got it sorted. I'm 9 months in and the CEO's office final word to me was no we won't fix your broadand, you can keep waiting for the 50Mb rollout and see if that helps. Like you they agreed that my service was shocking, like you they tried to get me to end my contract, unlike you they then refused to fix things. Oh well, luck of the draw I guess.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

change of plans :( yesterday they admit i DID have an 8 month and 8 day fault and they would honour the contract but today they changed their minds again and its back to full price :(

they even admit they will lose in court because its listed on my account that they offered me the price and services but refuse to change the price so now its a court case :(

what company in the world takes 8 months to change a bit of plastic and then rather than say sorry for the farce and handling of the fault decide to shaft the customer further by removing agreed discounts because they want ... and to even admit on the phone they know theyll lose but its tough **** is just another kick in the face for the paying customer

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Take them to the cleaners, by the sounds of things they deserve it after the service (or lack of) they've given you.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

My advice to anyone who has problems, ALWAYS respond to letters in WRITING ( and keep a copy) and RECORD DELIVERY. NEVER lose your rag with phone calls from the companies concerned, just say PLACE IN WRITING, SEEK legal advice, there are some nasty people out there, who will make your life hell, AND NEVER let anyone in your house, if they force there way in, CALL 999, they ARE BREAKING THE LAW THEN, People can only force entry into your home, if they have a COURT order, and police in attendance, keep calm, and do the above

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

And the relevance of that post was........................................?

Hope you had a good night out, Arthur. ;)

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

it was enough to make me suspend bailiff, sorry belief - :angel:

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

I was only trying to help.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

In your own special way.

It was kind of you to try and be helpful, Arthur, but unfortunately, your post was a little difficult to understand.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

if you have agreed a price for a service then its a contract

VM can exit that contract by giving you 30 days notice

You can exit at the end of miniumum period

if they have changed the price on the matter

you can leave by using the relevant clause

If this is your preferred route I suggest you send a letter by recorded delivery detailing that and cancelling the DD saying you'll pay the agreed price until the contract is ended or resolved by CISAS

They can avoid a deadlock letter if that is wht you have reached or you reached 12 weeks from your original complaint.

YOu can't force them to honour the deal as they simply honour it the use the 30 day rule but by the same token they can't hold you to a deal you did not do!

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

yes i agree with that :) they provide a service and i pay for that service at the agreed price for the agreed term (12 months)

not always but yes

bit one sided that isnt it ? they get to decide but we cant

usually yes but im not allowed and have 10 months remaining :( see above being one sided

if i cancel the payments then im at fault and breached the contract ... CICAS wont help without a deadlock letter and they wont send mme one and as the final result hasnt be decided they cant help

i will :) and they changed the price not the services and the services i never asked for and had no need for but they were offered free so would you say no to a free V+ box and activation ?

as i said my original contract was over and id had a few months with no or limited service so i called up and the guy dealig with my fault/complaint was on holiday so i ended up at customer relations and THEY offered me the extra box and channels for a few pounds more than i was paying, 2 months after that and 2 payments later i had another fault and thats when the CEO interfered again and he decided that the offer i was given was to generous so he changed it to suit and said that customer relations should not of made the offer but as the extra box had been installed i had to keep it for the remaining contract (10 months) :(

now how can that be fair and apart from the legal action im taking (virgin media also admit they know theyll lose but wont budge) what else can i do ?

also worth reminding you that i only just had the fault fixed that started in november and took 8 months to replace a plastic tap in the pit 6 doors up from me ... any decent company would be saying sorry for being so thick and taking ages but not virgin they decide to increase the price because he " didnt like it " and tough **** if i dont like it.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

You can't breach a contract if there is not one

A contract is only agreed when there is offer, acceptance and agreed consideration and terms. VM can only rely on the contract if they accept the agreed terms if they change them they have either set a new contract or altered the original one both of which mean you can exit.

On CISAS

http://www.cisas.org.uk/

Do some research. You don't need a deadlock letter ... you can wait 12 weeks ( 8 from 1/9/9 ) and then go forward without one.

http://www.cisas.org.uk/Rules.asp

c) Customers can use the scheme if:

* they have not been able to settle a complaint with the company within three months of putting it through the company’s own formal complaints procedure; or

* the company has agreed, in writing, that the dispute should be settled under the scheme.





CISAS, if all you have said is true and based on my experiences with othr services providers ( both otelo and cisas ) will probably come to one of two conclusions

a) the original contract stands and VM must give 30 days notice

b) the original contract did not apply and you can walk away

Also with regard to the discrepancy between VM's 30 day right and your 12 month one is about loss suffered. if you leave VM suffer a loss of income. If VM cancel the contract then you are no bound by any other arrangement and can find alternative provider.




The final thing I would say, and I am surprised that the your legal counsel has not raised it , is that the courts can take a dim view of litigation where there is an alternative dispute resolution process even where you have been informed incorrectly of your rights under it!

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

wont hurt to ask cisas thanks i thought i needed a deadlock letter :)

and i want a 3rd conclusion ... virgin media must honour the contract at the agreed price and also be nice to get support for any general questions but even when i suffered a total loss of service for 24hrs nobody would do anything as my account MUST be done through the CEO and i tried twice with no call back and after 6pm they close :( lot of money to pay when only the phone works and support refuse to support the paying customer.

an offer to end the dispute isnt an option im allowed either , virgin insist i pay the 10 months at the higher rate not agreed or breach the contract and theyll sell it on to a debt collection agency with extra costs added.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Just a question but have you been abusive when you call them?
When I used to work for BT some accounts were flagged as only to be dealt with
by a senior manager not a csa if the customer was very abusive.

Also is there any reason why you couldn't cancel the new contract within 30 days of it becoming active?

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

I wondered similarily:rolleyes: You gt more with a smile and big stick than simply a big stick and I suspect that if you have seriously "p***sed" them off then I could understand why they act in this way ( not condoning just understanding )

I don't know the facts so can't really comment. Ask for a deadlock letter. if not coming tell them you are going to cisas on the 1st september 2009 ( thats 8 weeks away so that is the latest )

seek legal advice about payments ( the alternative to cancelling the DD is to use the DD guarantee which is lawful and allows you to legitimately recall a DD as the price charged is not as documented ( if bank asks for details provide copy of agreement )

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

abusive no and definatly not to the agents who get paid very little to do a crap job :) the so called big chiefs however .... hmm abusive no but maybe a bit arsey but wouldnt you if you were told there isnt a fault and compared to an old lady who cant use her telephone ?

not my fault they take huffs easy :lol: they spent months and months telling me that it was my equipment at fault and that the virgin network is perfect and then i found this place and proved it wasnt me at fault and then they spent weeks trying to findit and spending fortunes trying to work out why ... then the tap failed and caused a total loss of service and they replaced it and magically its fixed :) so never mind the old woman who cant use her phone what about the CEO [insert word here] whos super duper fault finding team cant find faults

so arsey yes but not abusive and i think after 8 months im allowed to unless anyone thinks that 35 visits @ 4 hour windows = 140 hours of my life wasted and the hours spent on the phone is part of the award winning virgin media service sales promise to customers ?

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

One person's "arsey" is another's "abusive" ;)

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

arsey or abusive it wasnt offensive and was justified :)

anyways as menioned above about finding a suitable alternative or a solution i asked for a new contract without the expensive freebies and couldnt find a suitable offer so now ive been given 30 days notice :o if they cant rip you off they dont want your money ... i hope all new customers take warning and dont think your contract will help because it wont :( virgin media do not follow the law and thats a FACT

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

Are you in the process of claiming for the services that you paid for but never quite received?

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

no they GAVE me extra tv channels and a free V+ box that was fine for 2 months .... then they decided they were not longer free and increased the price by £24 per month and told me i cant get rid of them as im under contract and its tough ****

however i have now ditched virgin robbing ****s media :) and will be driving over to have a face to face chat at their homes :d childish yes but sometimes people can be pushed to far and hopefully they will think twice before messing customers about like i was in the future

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

I don't think there is such a thing as people not being allowed to speak to you? I know when anyone calls me the only people I can't speak to are staff incase I know them, and beyond cable, but only because I can't get into their accounts to change anything. If you had done anything wrong, maybe abused an agent over the phone numerous times, or shouted racist abuse or something I think that's the only way they can flag you, and even at that, you have to go pretty far, and they just disconnect your account, they don't even bother giving you services anymore.

Can you not write to head office?
(NCLC
PO Box 333
Virgin Media Ltd
Matrix Court
SWANSEA
SA7 9BB)

or email them? they have to deal with you, you are still their customer. If they want you in their contract, then they have to deal with your calls.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

The chance of getting any response from VM that way, is remote. The way l would do it is write and record delivery a letter directly to Niell Burkett, the guy who runs VM.

I have dealt directly with him in the past, and the problem has been resolved, the biggest problem with VM is there CS, which is rubbish to say the least, and nine times out of ten, you will be directed to Delhi, in India, and they cannot help you, as they won't understand what you are asking, I have dealt with them before.

I think that if they changed there way towards customers, then VM could be a good company, and it is rare for me to say that, you ask one CS ass. one thing and they will tell you something different from someone else.:)

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

As far as I know there is only one customer care call centre in India, Banglor I think? The rest are in Sheffield, Dudley, Bellshill, and Airdrie. Tech support and Faults are in India 9/10, sometimes you get through to the TSC or FMC in Airdrie's call centre but there's only about 100 agents there so they can't handle all the calls. You are probably getting through to one of the UK call centres but are speaking to someone who doesn't speak english, all for Political correctness, just virgin making sure they're not racist by not employing people who don't speak very good english :sleep:.

If you fill in the complaints form on the virgin website, they answer within 48 hours.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

TSC is in Liverpool, Swansea, Airdrie, Pune and Delhi so no idea where you get your figures from.

Re: Legal advice please virgin media want to boot me
 

I work in customer care in Airdrie. When I log CCCS emails, there's only a few TSC that aren't in the UK, but there's still some. Never have I warm transfered anyone to a Tech Support in Liverpool in all the time I've worked there. Nor Swansea.