BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

BBC iPlayer is now available in HD. Even for non-HD programs, the quality has been improved to rival that of Freeview.

A 1 hour standard definition program is now 600MB. Anyone on 2MB will be throttled with STM and prevented from watching the whole show. Increase that to 2 hours viewing and anyone on 10 meg will have their connection decimated to unwatchable speeds.

It's even worse for HD programs. Users on M/L (2 meg or 10 meg) can't even watch a single 1 hour program. Users on XL can watch for about 1:40 before being cut off.

Hopefully people will start complaining en masse when they realise what is happening. Until then, thanks to Virgin and other ISPs, broadband growth in the UK will be severely retarded.

This also debunks the "5% of users" myth - iPlayer is used by far more than 5% of the user base.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

You'd have thought Virginmedia would make iplayer exceptions to the STM, as they have the VOD deal

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

All traffic looks the same. they wouldn't be able to differentiate it.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Well people do have to hit the DNS servers first ;)

But I noticed this subject on the newsgroup also. The only time they will change STM to more reasonable percentages or drop it from a specific site, is when customers declare their dislike over it.

And as ive said, the 5% excuse is to put people at ease when they phone up and have no idea whats going on so they dont feel targeted, when in essence everyone will get throttled if they overstep the limit.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Nope the fact they've the VoD deal there is even more of a reason to STM the Internet version.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

It's patronising when the person they're telling it's for the benefit of, is the same person who's going to be affected by it.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

No they won't.

The STM for 10Mbit drops the download speed to 2.5Mbit. The HQ Streams on the iPlayer are 1.5Mbit

So once the BB M upgrade to 10Mbit completes only BB S will have any issues (and that service isn't for Video watching anyway)

---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:37 ----------

XL STM drops the download down to 5Mbit - the HD streams are 3.5Mbit

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

the HD streams are 3.5Mbit

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

yeah Ben Said HQ is 1.5mb not HD :)

But still STM is bad :P

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Have you actually tried using the connection when it's STM'ed? I can assure you that in every test I tried on L, streaming HD stops working once STM'ed. A friend of mine has M and he reports similar issues with SD once throttled.

Anyway, at the very least the advertising will have to change, since the service clearly isn't "unlimited" and clearly does not only affect "5%" of customers.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Yes. HD on L and SD on 2Mbit M will be affected

Isn't it good then that Virgin are upgrading BB M customers to 10Mbit where they won't be affected streaming SD iPlayer

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

You keep changing SD/HQ/HD.
The HD will affect 10MB users.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Yes because you got confused when I talked about HQ/HD. So from now on I will say SD/HD

Yes HD on 10Mbit will be affected for streaming

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Ben i think it uses a little more other then 3.5 mbit

That screen is me watching HD Stream as you can see around my 10mbit limit.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

I wasn't. I only got confused after you started changing it to different abbreviations.

But you used SD as an example earlier for 10MB that wouldn't be affected.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

BBC actually say it's 3.2 Mbit

That meant using H.264 and an encoding bitrate of 3Mbps or greater (we actually settled on 3.2Mbps as our preferred HD bitrate). However, since many people won't have an internet connection that can stream 3.2Mbps reliably, we wanted to make HD available for download as well.

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:22 ----------

They were different abbreviations because they were different things

Yes I did. I was trying point out that for the majority of people on Virgin - who are on M or L - then streaming from the iPlayer won't be affected because the majority of content is in SD - at 1.5Mbit when their STM download will be 2.5Mbit

Not everyone is going to be able to stream the HD

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Ok i get you but why don't they limit to say 4 mbps instead of streaming at full whack you may not watch the whole thing.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

The thread is about HD streaming. and everyone is able to stream the HD. who is not everyone?

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Back to the subject at hand, I would normally be doing something else perhaps playing WoW etc, then any programs on C4 or BBC I could use Iplayer or 4oD. But with Throttling I have found that I now make sure I have a schedule to watch the TV show there and then rather at my convenience.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

BB M 2Mbit customers for a start because their connection speed is too slow

BB L (and BB M 10Mbit) customers on STM

any Virgin National ADSL customer that syncs slower thant 3.5Mbit

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

BenMcr sorry but you must be mistaken i played a HD stream on a 2mbit connection i clicked play then pause waited 10 seconds then play again and wallah worked no buffering or nothing.

Saying that i only watched like 2 minutes or so maybe it would eventually catch up and start buffering again but meh another 10 seconds and your back lol.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Why not?

Obviously.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

I think I'd re-word this thread. "BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to pay per amount downloaded"

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Why is nobody mentioning the download option? If STM is such a chore, even on the 2Mb service, then why not donwload the iplayer content and watch it at your leisure?

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Because some people like to use this as an excuse about STM perhaps?

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Or maybe people like to watch something there and then and not download it in the wee hours of the morning, to watch the next day.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

I am not defending STM, but surely the BBC putting HD streams on iPlayer would increase the bandwidth requirements of the network, when the idea behind STM is to reduce them, so, from Virgin's point of view, it would be more logical to increase the use of STM. Especially bearing in mind that they have iPlayer available through the DTV system.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

curious thier excuse and the watchdogs acceptance of the use of unlimited was that the stm only affects a small proportion of the users

would have thought that more tan 5% use these streaming services ( lol even my wife does and shes normally last to use things new ;) )

so does that mean the word unlimited will now disappear ?

for me just an extra reason to finally dump virgin even for bb especially as sky are willing to pay a years line rental for me :)

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Just because a car is capable of being driven at 130mph - doesn't mean you have to. ;)

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Even if BB L customers are on STM it will only take just over an hour to download an hour long HD program

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Couldn't virgin do some kind of deal with bbc like local caching virgin end then they save on bandwidth

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

That's been mentioned before - people complained that it would break net neutrality

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

I don't know if anything came out of it, but the BBC did talk about doing this. Not sure if Virgin would like it though. While it would reduce the strain on their network, they might view it as potential competition for the Cable TV iplayer which they are using to sell Cable TV.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

I think the bottom line is that VM really can't keep claiming that their service is "unlimited" now, as there are very clear limits on the amount of iPlayer, for that matter any streaming TV service you can watch. 1 hour of programming in an evening is hardly excessive or limited to 5% of customers.

Hopefully my latest complaint to the ASA will now be irrefutable, but to be honest I'm not convinced they have the level of understanding required to realise that. That's why I'm banking on the limited amount of time watching TV will put it in terms they can understand.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Even if you are right all the ASA can do is stop Virgin from using the 'unlimited' term. They can't make them change anything else

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------

Also Virgin only advertise as the 50Mbit service as suitable for HD streaming

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html...d_content.html

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

From the sounds of the problems people have been having with STM speeds dramatically dropping that claim is probably false too.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Some people when they see something on iPlayer want to watch it straight away, watching at their leisure being right now.

Let's cut the crap here shall we, you know as well as I do, or perhaps not going by previous posts, that all cable operators see themselves as content providers and will use whatever limitations they can get away with in order to ensure their customers use their monetised methods, VoD, PPV, to access that content.

---------- Post added at 17:57 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ----------

I do hope you're getting paid extra for posts like this on here Ben. Given that you're a call centre guy in Manchester this can't be part of your normal job description so definitely some customer re-education work in your own time is worth some cash.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

You told me I had been place on your Ignore list. I suggest you put me back on there if you don't like what I say

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

i suppose seeing VM provide iplayer free on their tv services that they actually give a toss if people are getting STM on the BB side of things.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Why not introduced a metered tariff - similar to your gas or electric meter for example? Then you could download as much as you wanted - provided you paid for the extra?

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

What, like they already do for mobile broadband (which by the way if you go over the allotted bandwidth you pay for, can be charged up to about £1 or £2 a megabyte - upwards of £1000 a gigabyte)? Sure, just open the floodgates for them to make more money from us feckless idiots.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Interestingly back in 2005 NTL were proposing to do just that, introducing 10Mb as standard with different tiers of usage packages being made available. Of course it never did happen, far too sensible an idea!!!!

See CF news item on the proposal here:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...ed-as-standard

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Would cost Virgin too much money. A number of people with low usage who are presently paying 20 quid a month go onto the new tier and pay less.

VM also claim to be unable to offer us a facility to track our usage - this would be absolutely required with a metered tariff.

Not going to happen, would cost VM money, people would complain like crazy, just look at the fallout from the Time Warner trials.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/101942

You're off ignore, but VM have plenty enough spokespeople and PR men without you joining in. Suggest you look at a couple of recent posts by other members of staff, both helpful, informative, yet accepting of criticism and not deeply up the company's backside. Appreciate the assistance you provide here, unsure if it's necessary to be putting down your customers because they disagree with or give criticism to your employer, you come across as a VM spokesperson at times.

---------- Post added at 22:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:23 ----------

That won't help, the VM<>BBC bandwidth isn't the issue it's from the edge of VM's network to the customer's cable modem that's the issue.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

I'm also curious as to whether STB VOD counts towards your broadband bandwidth usage and thus STM limit.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

STB VoD doesn't use the broadband internet network. You do talk back to the VoD servers via the same equipment however the VoD itself is delivered as some transport streams on the video network, not IPTV.

Also STM works (basically) on the MAC addresses of devices. The STB will not have the same MAC as the modem so any STB activity, interactive, VoD, etc, will not count in any way towards the modem's STM counters.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

If only they had fibre optic broadband.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Indeed - 2.4Gbps down and 1.2Gbps up shared between 32 / 64 homes is somewhat better on the numbers game than 38Mbps down and 4 x 8.8Mbps up shared between 500 - 1000 or more.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Things have been degrading a lot over the past month or two. I get STM'ed pretty much every single night, just from other people in the household watching iPlayer.

I might upgrade to 30 meg but it will have to wait until they get modem-only mode on the SuperHubs working because I'm not replacing my Buffalo running Tomato with that rubbish.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

PAYG is a very backwards idea.

The 2 major downsides are.

light user's bring in less revenue to an isp, heavy user's pay silly money, some may say thats a good thing but wait until the day you want to download or you get the bill for your kids usage (which you didnt realise existed).

I support fixed usage limits with overage fees but not pure PAYG. Any system needs to have a subsidy system in place where people who barely use their connection pay decent amounts so there is profit to spend on investment and cover heavier users.

ADSL has almost gone to that method where by isp's all concentrate on one for all speed with the variables been usage limits and I think the adsl market is a mess as a result with very low quality services.

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

Ironically I am surprised by this, the way the bbc have cut down the quality of F1 streaming made me think they were struggling for bandwidth yet they rollout a hd iplayer service. Watching F1 practice sessions recently is like watching a 240p youtube video.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Erm, you do realise this is a thread from 2009. Pre superhub era! Oh those were the days.... ;)

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Lol is ben still on the ignore list?

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

so if hd iplayer been here since 2009 is only on selected programmes? f1 stream has gone down in quality the past 12 months.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Except that it quite clearly is; certainly according to the industry definition of the word. If you want to try and get it changed then go right ahead :)

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

No home broadband is going to be truly unlimited but after a year on cable I can certainly say it has a whole lot less in the way of limits than most ADSL packages I've had.

I find anything less than the highest quality iPlayer streams virtually unwatchable on my pretty average size 42" TV so avoid using iPlayer as much as possible by remembering to record anything I want to see which I can't watch when it's broadcast - old fashioned I know :(.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Oh dear God here we go again. :knock:

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Watch it using the STB then? it looks fine on the My TV which is 40" aswell as the 50" downstairs

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

iplayer is fine on my monitor, its f1 that for some reason is shown at a lesser bitrate than other programmes, live f1 that is, recorded f1 is fine.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Yes - a Foxsat. The high quality stream is acceptable but the standard one looks decidedly poor to me.

---------- Post added at 15:39 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------

Is that the unlimited / limited argument or one about iPlayer which I've missed in the past?

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

A little related light relief ;)
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110525

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

It has been a long time since I watched iplayer on the internet. I just watched last nights Newsnight on iplayer early this morning. Is it me or have they increased the bitrate of their encodes. I remember watching the iplayer tv shows a long time ago and remember seeing a lot of blocking due to which arguably was a bitrate starved video encode. When I watched the program this morning upscaled to fullscreen there seemed to be no visible blocking what so ever.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Erm.... see post #1 :confused: :)

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

With the VOD iPlayer suffering from stuttering pictures on a significant amount of content now, the online iPlayer is probably a better service at the moment?

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

BBC are changing all there encoding yes, They have also introduced "BBC Radio HD" which is currently on only one of there stations, might be Radio 2 not sure. Im sure they will introduce this onto there Radio 1 soon, basically its just a much higher bitrate when listening to the Radio so you get that crystal clear HD-like sound.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Which, all good as it is, implies a lot of development going on with the online iPlayers. Might explain why "issues" with the VOD version are just being left to fester.

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

Don't see why that would be the case. VoD will continue to be part of the platform whether or not the iPlayer content is delivered by it or not.

So if they are technical issues with VoD content they would need to be solved

Re: BBC iPlayer goes HD, time to drop STM
 

I totally agree that the issue with VoD iPlayer needs to be solved. Whether that will be anytime soon is another question. I am beginnning to wonder if the BBC have bigger and more glamorous things on their plate than fixing unwatchable content.