Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Hello

Recently we had a burglary and although not much was taken, our Virgin Media box was ripped out from it's shelf under the TV.

When reporting this to Virgin they have been repeatedly using avoidance tactics (..."yes, we'll just find out and call you back tomorrow" - yeah right!) but they have basically eventually said that we will have to pay them £250 for a new box.

Our house insurance will not cover it as the box does not belong to us. It was just the basic package box, not the plus one.

My question is: is there anyway to get another box from them without paying big bucks as we only want to continue using their service, and also will they make us pay for the box when we leave them?

Many thanks in advance
Anna

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

I'd get a quote from Virgin Media for the replacement box, then I'd send that to your insurance company as part of the claim.

This is a cost that you've incurred as part of a theft that you're (I assume) claiming for. I don't see why your insurance company won't cover it, regardless of whether you own the box or not.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Welcome to the forum. You've raised a very good issue here. I've just checked up on VM T&Cs, and they DO state that it is the customer's responsibility to insure all VM equipment for its full value. If your household insurance won't cover it, I'll bet many forum users (myself included) will be checking their policies! Not sure there is too much you can do about it, but maybe some others may chip in with suggestions?

"You are responsible for making sure that our equipment is safe and used properly at all times. To do this, you agree to do the following:
Follow the manufacturer's instructions and any other instructions we have given you;
Keep the equipment under your control (for example, you may not sell it, lend it or hire it out to anyone else, put it up as security for a loan or mortgage, or allow it to be seized under any legal process against you). You must not move our equipment from your home without our permission;
Insure any of our equipment against any loss, theft or damage for the full replacement value;
Not remove, tamper with or cross out any words or labels on our equipment;
Take proper care at all times to prevent the loss or theft of our equipment."

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Might be worth checking the exact wording of your insurance policy, see whether it specifically states that it only covers household items which are your property. If it does, or if it specifically states that it doesn't cover property belonging to anybody else, then you might have a hard time getting the claim through.

Looks like it's going to come down to the wording on your policy.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Which bank can you use a Virgin Box for security for a mortgage? Sounds a good offer to me just shows how weak the pound is these days. LOL

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Thank you for your responses.

The insurance I have is tenant insurance (rented accommodation) so that is why it only covers things that belong to us, not, for example the landlord or in this case Virgin Media!

I would have never have thought it would be so expensive to replace the box as it is only there so we can continue using the service.

We also have broadband and phone from them (we only really wanted them but the TV was added in for free) so what do you think would happen if we didn't get a new box and continued using just the other services until we move on? Realistically will virgin want to come back and reclaim their equipment 2 or 3 years after they gave it to us?

p.s. Maybe that's the reason the burglars took the box - to secure themselves a mortgage what with this economic climate an' all!!!

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

You probably wouldn't have a problem - unless whoever stole the box then started to use it for VoD/PPV events. As Virgin would think you still had the box they would bill you for them quite correctly.

Yes Virgin would ask for the box back if you disconnect, and would charge you if you didn't return it

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Under the circumstances you would think that VM would replace the box!!!

His house has been burgled FFS, speak to VM's Customer relations department and explain the situation.

The standard boxes cant cost VM more than £20 and them wanting to charge you £250 is extortion!

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Er - so Virgin have to swallow the equipment replacement when it's not their fault and the T&Cs say you are responsible for insuring the box??!

Why?

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:08 ----------

Also Customer Relations won't be able to do anything. Replacement costs are Replacement costs

You can't avoid them by disconnecting and Customer Relations won't credit them.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

So where do Virgin say what the value of their equipment is so I can insure it? :)

Also, if I moved house and my next house was not in a cable area, would I need to take the cable box with me, as the conditions (as quoted above) say: You must not move our equipment from your home without our permission. But the old house would not be my home...

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Normally Virgin will arrange collection from the house in the cable area - Virgin can't collect from non-cable addresses

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

You mean won't, surely? I mean, you don't need a cable point outside your house for a VM van to pull up!

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

You'd think that but after switching over a year a go to Sky, my box is still in the loft gathering dust.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

They also don't have any vans in non-cable areas!

So I do mean can't

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

They do have vans with wheels though don't they!? ;)

I must say, it is a bit of an eye opener this one, I was unaware that I had to insure the box. Am off to check policy now. Mare. No way the box costs £250 to replace though, absolutely no way on the face of this turd of a planet.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

They can't drive far incase the vans get STM'd.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

The £250 isn't just for the STB, it is also for replacing the Smartcard and covering the admin costs involved in supplying the new box and the admin is barring the damaged/stolen box from the network

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

They sent me a box to put the kit in, with a prepaid label etc. Dropped the box off at the post office. Job done. This was about 18 months ago.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

£250? So lets say for arguments sake, the absolute maximum the STB can surely be sold at retail is what £99? That would leave ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY English pounds for a smart card (?) and admin costs. Come on. It's quite obviously a money spinner.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Well if anyone can find the cost that Samsung charge Virgin per box I would be very impressed

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Silly me. I thought vans could move around since they have wheels. My mistake lol

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Is it? Do you have an verifiable breakdown of the costs, or are you speculating?

I don't care one way or the other, personally, but unless you can justify your statement it stands as pure conjecture, whether you state your opinion as fact, or not :)

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Indeed - but operate on a day-to-day basis in the franchise areas where techs are employed.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

write to VM head office and tell before your will pay for to provide proof of a it value

ie not the retail price of 250 they plucked out the air

the real price it cost them minus its age and minus the cost that is factored in to the monthly bill.

and point out to them British contact law does not alow penalty charges and they can only legally claim there true loss

its is also debatable that it would be an unfair contract term too

and watch em change there mind

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

VM aren't claiming for their 'loss' from the OP though.

The OP wants a replacement box, and £250 is the value that VM have placed on the combination of all the factors involved in providing one (from the hardware, through to actually setting it up).

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Makes sense. When my carpet was ruined from water damage, my insurance company paid for the cost of replacing the carpet, which included the fee for the fitters.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Thats because you had a paid "new for old" policy covering your carpets (btw most of the time the amount the insurance companys pay for a replacement carpet is HEAVERLLY reduced (assuming your company worked via mandate under contract to a national carpet retailer)

<------ Carpet fitter for national retailer ;)

As for the actual topic. The law ONLY allows for a company to charge for ACTUAL LOSS and not a punative cost.

As for benmcr's reasons for the cost (new smartcat, admin for blocking old box from the network) i suspect it would breakdown something like this

smartcard £5.00 (Standard price for a high end smart card (such as creaditcard, VM's smartcards are actually low end (there not designed for repeated reinserts according to VM))
Admin 30 seconds (entering the old box's max address into a database (if they actually bother doing it))
replacement box £0-£150 (Depending on boxes age and condition. if its a 10 year old pace repeatdly reconditioned stb VM's corperate accounts would have given it a value of £0 (due to depreation) if its a 2 month old never before used samsong stb it would bee pratically worth new price))
half hour of visiting tech's time inc fuel £30 ish (remember the standard £99 is a PUNATIVE charge and not there actual cost for half hour of a techs time)

total cost £35-£185 depending on age of box

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

My post was quite clearly a rough guess. Not once did I present my figures as fact.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

How many people have we had on here who have been told by VM that upon cancelling their services they can "keep" their set top boxes.
The strange world of VM.:)

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

All I can add is that the T&C state:

1. Quote:

   Where we hire equipment to you it will be our property at all times and we may need to alter or replace it from time to time. For us to do this, we will need reasonable access to your home. You are responsible for making sure that our equipment is safe and used properly at all times. To do this, you agree to do the following: Follow the manufacturer's instructions and any other instructions we have given you; Keep the equipment under your control (for example, you may not sell it, lend it or hire it out to anyone else, put it up as security for a loan or mortgage, or allow it to be seized under any legal process against you). You must not move our equipment from your home without our permission; Insure any of our equipment against any loss, theft or damage for the full replacement value;

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

I wonder what VM would say if asked about this, I doubt my home contents policy covers someone else's property in my home or even if insurance companies offer this! I can't comply with their T&C.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

lmao@that! :D

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Home and contents policies do NOT cover other persons property. I found this out when I had a bike stolen from a friends I was visiting. It was taken out of his garage, and the insurers wouldn't pay out, because it wasn't their property.

The only way you could insure a Virgin box, is as a named item, for which we'd have to give proof of its value. Which is impossible to do, because Virgin don't make that information publically available (to the best of my knowlege).

Therefore that term is impossible to comply with.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Now that's a good point, anyone offer any 'real' advice on it :shrug:

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Could the VM Box be interpreted as leased to you, for insurance purposes?

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Yes - as if you don't return it at the end of the lease you are billed for it as you effectivly take ownership.

This is an insurance company being stubborn. Query it and then refer it to the FSA or insurance ombardsman. They will give in.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Then regretfully they would point out the terms and conditions where they say it's your responsibility to ensure the item is insured.

---------- Post added at 05:51 ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 ----------

I suppose you could use the analogy of a car you have on hire purchase from the manufacturer. It doesn't belong to you until you have paid of all the payments due - but the insurance company do insure it.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Point back to Virgin that unless a dedicated insurance policy is opened for their STBs that the home insurance will not cover it, despite it being fully comp? It's far too restrictive T+Cs that cause problems like this, and it needs to be sorted quick. No company should have to rely on 2 pages (average book size page) of small print for covering their arses.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

I will certainly be checking my home insurance policy! If I'm not covered, I will be cancelling my services, as thats completely unacceptible, VM probably know this is the case, but know if they put this in their T&Cs that thats covered their behinds and people must pay...

I know VM own the box and must recoup some costs involved with them, but they must also make things realistic, which is what they've unequivically not done here IMHO.

If we must insure them, then VM must contract an insurance company to provide an STB Insurance Service :)

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

So maybe they should remove the 'you must insure it' and replace it with 'you must pay to replace it'?

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

And if you didn't have those terms in the terms and conditions I dare say there would be loads of thefts reported and a huge increase in sales at the car boot sales and on Ebay.

Besides -its no different to a car on hire purchase. The conditions of the HP agreement are that you insure the car fully comprehensive. Does that mean you will all be handing your cars back to the finance companies as the same applies?

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Do insurance companies insure something that isn't yours though?

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Car insurance companies do, not sure about home contents insurance

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

That's slightly different in the fact that car insurers insure not the owner but the registered keeper - which can be different to the owner.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

But nevertheless, the car doesn't belong to you - but you are covered by the insurance company for loss or damage to it.

What I am trying to point out, that it's not unreasonable for them to ask for it to be insured against loss/damage/theft etc.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Sorry but you are wrong.

Our home contents insurance covers our own items and "those for which you are legally responsible". Having checked, this is things like a company laptop or a rental TV.

Therefore, our V+ box is covered.

I guess in your example, the bike would not be something I was legally responsible for, so probably not covered. Having fallen foul of something similar a few years back when I had a company car broken into and my own belongings stolen, only to find the company didn't insure the contents, I now have "away from home" cover on my home policy.

It's down to the customer to make sure they are covered - don't blame Virgin or the insurance companies.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

it will now only cost you £150 for a replacement box and smart card,under any circumstances.the service tech will fit the box,write you a receipt,apply the charge to your account and it will be payable on your next monthly bill ;) whoops,forgot the £30 call-out charge for 'non-service affecting' call-out.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

I worked for an independent electrical retailer for 10 years and we rented out many items tv's vcr's washers etc. We had several case of customers having items stolen or damaged and every case I remember the customer had no problem claiming on the insurance.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Your not that far off the mark. The vans are tracked and if we go over the speed limit the tracker alerts our managers. I wouldn't put it pass them to put cameras in the vans.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------

£120 with a two year guarantee, well thats what ntl payed.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

i obviously dont know the wording of your insurance policy but a household policy would usually cover things that were legally your property and other things that you were responsible for but not technically own outright eg. something you had on hire purchase and items you rented like a TV and something like this cable box.
I can understand that the policy might exclude items belonging to your landlord but i still would have thought it would cover items that your are responsible for like the cable box. If an insurance company is saying the claim for the box is not valid, have they actually shown you the exact bit of the policy that they are relying on when saying this. or are they just fobbing you off too easily.

the bit about the bike above is a red herring. the owners of the house where the bike was stolen from could not have it paid under that policy as they did not own it, NOR was it their responsibility as they had not entered into a contract to rent it / safeguard it and look after it (eg. the vigin cable box contract).
The owner of the bike should have claimed on their own insurance policy - but of course it would only be covered if they had cover for their items away from their home- which usually costs extra

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Look at it this way. Say they have a box in a non cabled area, and the nearest van is 40 minutes away. They send that van to pick up the box. It is then unavailable to go to paying cable customers for 80 ninutes while it is picking up the box.

So, yes the Van can physically do the journey. It's just not feasible it for it to do so.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

And Virgin can now send out pre-paid returns packaging to any UK address ;)

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Which closes the loop if the goods are lost in transit ad in finitum ! I am glad we got that sorted out. Phew.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

Yes, which is why I said they won't, but he was saying that they can't. It's not quite the same thing.

Re: Stolen Virgin TV Box
 

I think the high cost of replacement is a deterant to try minimise lost boxes as they are more of value if it was to fall into the wrong hands. and be used or modified illegally, if it was only say £49 actual cost to replace the box, then i bet ALOT more would be going missing if you know what i mean.

just my view in it anyway