steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/7956824.stm

NO WE DON'T
however much we disagree with the bnp, sacking people for being a member is totaly wrong
i hope he wins his apeal and sues the cr** out of mersyside police
who the hell do they think they are

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

*steps away from the thread*

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Why not put this in this thread

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...l#post34690595

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

If he was a member of the BNP then sacking him was absolutely the right/correct thing to do.

The police have always had rules against their officers being members of the BNP if he joined the police and lied about that membership then he deserves the sack, if he joined the police and then joined the BNP despite knowing that he shouldn't then he deserves the sack.

This is not about the rights and wrongs of being a BNP party member, regardless of what certain sectors of the press might have you believe, he was sacked for breaching a very simple rule pertaining to his employment - seems like a no-brainer if it's true.

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

Slightly different issue surely?

That thread's about the publishing of the list, this is about an individual who has been sacked as a result of the list being published.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

merge if you want i didn't spot that thread
but i agree with ROBM it is a different issue

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Just the place for it...because the list being published is why this chap has lost his job...cause and effect and all in one place...

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

I can,t bring myself to agree that the police should be allowed to dictate which political party you support as a condition of employment
And i have not seen any evidence that he was an active member
If his dismissal stands after the appeal then it should follow that ALL doctors,nurses,solicitors,barristers,ect should be sacked also

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Ii is a condition of employment that you are NOT in the BNP, if he lied, then he deserves the sack.

But everyone is entitled to a policital view, BUT not BNP.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Trouble is how many were 'enrolled' as family members to get the special price reduction and never knew anything about it? :erm:

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

The thing is the rules are clear, presumably before he joined the Police, so there's not much you can do. If he felt that strongly about the BNP he should have sought alternative employment.

I disagree wholeheartedly about the ban. Like it or not as of now, the BNP is a legal political party. Whilst they remain so I think any ban is wrong. However, this isn't about "an overriding legal duty to promote race equality and retain public confidence." If it was a Muslim police officer who was a member of al Mahajiroun (which is a banned organisation) I doubt he'd been sacked even though he'd be at odds exporting an "overriding legal duty to promote race equality and retain public confidence."

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

everyone is entitled to a political view full stop.If they are going to enforce that stupid rule then they might aswell ban all muslims from the force on the grounds that some muslims blow up things

correct,this appears to be the case for steve bettley

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

correct

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Why how ever much we hate them they ARE a political party with the rights that position affords

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Its stupid we have this quasi-legal status for the BNP. Noone has actually made them illegal, but apparently, we are all supposed to act like they are. The government really needs to sort this out and either re-affirm their legality or just ban them.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

being a party gives them no rights that i am aware of

police have to be impartial being part of any party that believes one group of people is better than another should preclude you from this job

this doesnt mean a police man cant vote for any party they wish but as soon as they become a member then it is and should be as it is

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

so does that include officers who are a member of the conservatives,labour and libdems if not then it is prejudice

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

I don't like the BNP one little bit. However i hope that copper sues the police for as much as he can get.

---------- Post added at 20:25 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

My point as well :tu:

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

From Hansard

Police: Political Impartiality
Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what recent guidance has been given to chief constables on the use by political parties of photographs of named police officers in election leaflets. [196296]

Mr. McNulty: Regulation 6 of the Police Regulations 2003 as amended by the Police (Amendment) Regulations 2004 states that:

“a member of a police force shall at all times abstain from any activity which is likely to interfere with the impartial discharge of his duties or which is likely to give rise to the impression amongst members of the public that it may so interfere. A member of a police force shall in particular (a) not take any active part in politics”.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

So that means they can be sacked for supporting or being a paid up member of ANY political party. There's going to be a lot of sacked coppers then

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Earlier post edited to highlight the salient point.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

So if someone is a Man Utd supporter they should be banned for believing that Man Utd is better than other teams? Should Northerners(just a theoretical example nothing more) be banned because they believe that are better than Southerners?

Then if someone believes that they are there to represent their community as opposed to the community, they should be banned and that applies to a lot(if not the majority) of racial groups.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

It does go beyond politics though. My dad had to declare which companies he was a shareholder of, when he joined. He did sell up one of them but I don't know if it was coincidence or not.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

they may well be but thier party policy is not discriminatory to any race creed or ability of person

what any person personally believes is non of our business

but when some one takes an oath that say they will act with out fear or favour we have a right to say we don't believe them when they openly belong to a party ( of any type ) that belife system openly says otherwise

Quote

FORM OF DECLARATION

" I . . . . . of . . . . . do solemnly and sincerely
declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the
Queen in the office of constable, with fairness,
integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding
fundamental human rights and according equal respect to
all people; and that I will, to the best of my power,
cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all
offences against people and property; and that while I
continue to hold the said office I will, to the best of my
skill and knowledge, discharge all the duties thereof
faithfully according to law."

Unquote


that is hard to see being held to by people signed up to a party intent on removing even the legal immigrants back to thier original countries forcefully if necessary

Quote

Saturday, 24 May 2008

BNP Manifesto

The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia. We use the term indigenous to describe the people whose ancestors were the earliest settlers here after the last great Ice Age and which have been complemented by the historic migrations from mainland Europe.The migrations of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Norse and closely related kindred peoples have been, over the past few thousands years, instrumental in defining the character of our family of nations.

Unquote

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

My comment on the BNP, has been misread, the BNP is a legal party, and are entitled to there views, like anyone else, but certain employers won't take them on, it cases it cuases problems,

We are in this country allowed ' freedom of speech' but sadly, this no longer applies, due to the fact, that no matter what we say, some people take offence to it, it could be one word or one sentence, to be quite honest, l am getting totally ****** off about it, United Kingdom, ain't UK any more.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

So how many have been sacked because that they don't believe in
.

So are any other groups on the banned list for similar(but usually worse) reasoning.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

yes police need permision to be members of the masons and other organisations and any party that holds views that impinged on that oath could land them out of a job

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Where does it says forcefully or indeed otherwise? There are non-white groups that support repatriation.

SNP Manifesto
---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 21:11 ----------

How does belonging to the masons impinge on that oath? A much higher proportion of labour voters(never mind muslims) would fall foul of those conditions.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

they are often allowed in the masons which is why they get permision why they need it is because they could be accused of favouring another mason !

if the BNP dont like this all they need to is win enough seats to govern and then change the law ;)

as to Muslims i would expect any Muslim based party which ascribed itself to strict shira law would also find thier members banned from the police

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Your right Arthur the UK will not be the "United Kingdom" if ever the BNP got into power.
As regards the policeman who was kicked out I'll just say this, how many would be complaining about political freedom if the situation were reversed and some bearded muslim was kicked out of the Met for belonging to an extreme Islamic group?
I'm sure we would understand why, so whats different with this guy and the BNP? in my book there is no difference neither belongs in a position of trust and authority.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

I couldn't resist it. The BNP were in my town recently and they made a short clip of how successful the day was, also how many people took their literature etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0XwizKRdg

Keep your eye on the girl who takes a leaflet at 1:25, she appears to find it fascinating....

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

"The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia. We use the term indigenous to describe the people whose ancestors were the earliest settlers here after the last great Ice Age and which have been complemented by the historic migrations from mainland Europe.The migrations of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Norse and closely related kindred peoples have been, over the past few thousands years, instrumental in defining the character of our family of nations."

i would suggest that more and more people are subscribing to these views even if they are scared to admit it

" I . . . . . of . . . . . do solemnly and sincerely
declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the
Queen in the office of constable

i think they need to change the wording of the oath we live in the 21st century now the police serve the public by OUR consent ,they should remember that we can remove that consent if they get too big for their boots

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

why on earth would we change an oath for such a minority party

---------- Post added at 21:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------


:clap:

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Yep just the sort of responsible young person this country needs - another litter lout.

Well I suppose it keeps all those immigrants working in the jobs us proud Brits don't want!

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[QUOTE=rogermevans;34759063]why on earth would we change an oath for such a minority party

not for the party, and whatever made you think that,but to reflect the fact that they serve us (the general public)

---------- Post added at 21:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[quote=martyh;34759078]but they dont they act for the government as they should !

to have a force not doing so would lead to anarchy


your mp is the one who serves you ( or at least the majority of voters ) and then passes the laws the police should abide by in enforcing and keeping themselves

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[QUOTE=rogermevans;34759084]the police ,the government are CIVIL SERVANTS the clue's in the name
any laws past or any law upheld is (or should be)with the publics consent
and i am not suggesting we should get rid of the police, that's ridiculous,what i am saying is that they forget they in the position they are in because we (general public) say they are.It's very easy to forget how much power we (general public)have if we can be bothered.For example in the case quoted in this thread if enough people said they wanted the rule in question removed and the officer re-instated then the police would have no alternative but to abide by the publics choice

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

There is absolutely no chance, nor should there be, that this guy could be re-instated even if there were to be a wave of public sympathy for him, that way lies the rule of the mob if the police or the government were to kowtow to public pressure.
Your right in one aspect though, we the public do have a lot of influence and that influence is exercised at the ballot box, that's the way to change laws we don't agree with.
If the policeman in question had used a bit of common sense he would never have joined the BNP, he could have just voted for them in the privacy of the polling booth, luckily for us he didn't have the savvy to do that.
As regards whether or not its right to forbid serving police officers from being a member of a hate party I'd have thought the answer would be blindingly obvious, he knew the rules and he either broke or ignored them, either way the outcome was always going to be a foregone conclusion.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[quote=martyh;34759109]the public get that chance at every election they dont seem to want what you seem to want ;)

the majority would likely like the BNP BANNED but the various governments seem to think its better to know where these people are than let them go underground :)

on that note i suggest if you really want him reinstated you stand on that platform at the next election and risk your own money on the deposit if you are sure the voting public are behind you on this

i am off to one of the speeding threads

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

As much as i loathe the bnp and everything it stands for at this moment in time it is a legal political party and as such no one should be dismissed from a job purely because they are members. Now if this officer has a history of dealing with certan sections of the public that is explained by his membership then fair enough. I think we need more detail on this before some of us get up in arms about it we don't have any information on this particular officer or how he did his job. As a base principle though if belonging to the bnp is a criteria for dismissal then surely that does have to extend to all political party's not just the ones we loathe.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

When you join the Police it is made *very* clear that you are not allowed to take any active role in *any* Political party.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

what the bnp have to say
http://bnp.org.uk/2009/03/police-wel...tish-patriots/

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

He was a serving Police Officer who signed a declaration of non membership and was found out and therefore rightly dismissed by virtue ofhis Gross Misconduct.

We do not want serving Police officers to be members of such organisations as the BNP.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

:clap::clap:

Well put, certain jobs require certain sacrifices and in the case of the police that means not being affiliated to extreme political parties, or as Derek has pointed out not being politically active for any party.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

I think its wrong that the police service target people's beliefs and not their actions. Its actions that ultimately count. For example, i'd rather have a copper who actively supports a political party, but discharges his duty faithfully and exemplary, rather than the SO19 copper who wasn't part of any political party but refused to guard the Israeli embassy. I can't find any mention of Bettley's disciplinary record which presumably means its excellent as if there were any dirt on it, someone would have pointed it out.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

There's this:-
So you have to get their permission to be a police officer?
There have been a great many cases where people have been signed up to Labour party membership without their knowledge and votes mysteriously cast in their 'name' in the selection of MPs. If belonging to a political party of any sort is banned, how many others have been banned.

Ex-Commander Brian Paddick stood as the Lib-Dem candidate for London Mayor, how long was he a police officer and a member of the Lib-Dems?

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Whilst his sacking was expected I am a little unsure of the legalities of the Police using information obtained illegally against someone.

It does seem that it'll end up in the courts one way or another.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

From everything that we know this was a professional police officer that if a member of the bnp never allowed that to interfere with his duties so for that reason this was unfair. Not being a fan of the bnp i am not sure but didn't they do a family ticket sort of membership thing that may have got this guy on the list without him actually knowing and if that is the case it also makes this more stupid then it already is.

For those saying that belonging to the bnp is more then enough to get a police officer fired would they also support any police officer that is a member of any other political party getting fired because right now much as some of us despise it the bnp are a legal political party. Remember that while the core belief of the bnp is unpalatable in the most polite terms they also have made great efforts to sound and present themself more moderately in recent times tagging onto fears many have and putting themself forward as the solution same as all the other partys.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Whilst I believe the officer deserves the sack, after all he broke the rules, I do find it a bit hypocritical. How is not OK to be a member of the BNP, but is OK to belong to the Black Officers association? http://www.nbpa.co.uk/ How much more segregated can you get?? Can you imagine the outcry if there was a National White Police Officers Association!!

And the BNP serve a purpose,as do Muslim hate preachers, they remind us of the dangers of being complacent

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

doesnt really matter in this country how the information ( other than torture ) is acquired as if it gets to court a judge can admit any evidence put before him if he wants too

if he really wasn't a member he might stand a chance

but as you said its pointed out before you sign up so other than that above he wont get very far even with an appeal

---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:55 ----------

on the BOA i agree that i cant understand how that was allowed i expect the london police have as many welsh officers down there as black policeman but bet that WOA wouldnt be allowed ;)

but i still would say any member of the BNP shouldnt be a police oficer

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

:clap:

It seems to me that the ban on police joining the BNP implies that the police force would "prefer it" if they didn't vote for them either otherwise why have the ban in the first place it seems pointless to me to ban someone from joining but allow them to vote.The officers record has to be taken into account also, which as far as i can find out is exemplary,Also according to the original bbc report he didn't join the BNP his brother did it for him without his knowledge.
I agree with most of the postees in this thread that the BNP is not a very pleasant organisation BUT and it's a big but there is a large proportion of the membership who don't subscribe to the hard line beliefs of the past ,i know a lot personaly ,they have meetings in my local once a month when i have been present ,there has never been any "flag waving"or racist chanting ,although i do not doubt that happens at some venues.
The original question for this thread was do we have the right to impose restrictions on peoples personal and political beliefs not whether joining the bnp is right or wrong .. i still believe that the police force has overstepped it's authority

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

On what grounds? It was a legal and fair dismissal. He broke his terms and conditions of employment.

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------

Sorry, I must have been asleep. When did Manchester United become a racist political party (or any other type of political party for that matter)?

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

I could hardly stop myself from ROTFPMSL. The caption about the "British Asian" agreeing with them, after a five minute chat, was the best one. If that really happened, why didn't they show it? I would have thought that would have been the scoop of the century.

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:46 ----------

But his actions have spoken for themselves, by him joining a racist organisation.

His disciplinary record is private and confidential, this is why you can't find anything.

---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:54 ----------

It was information that was in the public domain, it does not mater how it got there.

---------- Post added at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

What we can wonder is, if he had to investigate a racialy motuivated attack perpertrated by a BNP memebr. Where would loyalties lay?

The point is that the other parties do have racist core values. They do not have racist consttutions or manifestos.

---------- Post added at 21:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

But when the police service is still inherently institutionally racist, there is still a need for this association. It promotes good race relations and equality of opportunity, within the police services of the United Kingdom and the wider community.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[QUOTE=Flyboy;34760524]On what grounds? It was a legal and fair dismissal. He broke his terms and conditions of employment.

the whole point of this discusion is are those terms and conditions legal do the police or indeed any other employer have the right to impose them ...no they don't imo

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[QUOTE=martyh;34760621]If its a question of "do we have the right to impose these rules on police officers", then in my opinion of course we do.
As already pointed out by Derek would be police officers are made well aware of this ruling before they start their careers, how comfortable would any of us feel if this was a Muslim officer who was found out to be a member of some legal Islamic hate group?
From a personal point of view I wouldn't want either of them in a position of authority.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[QUOTE=frogstamper;34760633]my point is that if anyone wants to join a political organisation no matter how unsavioury then they should be aloud to as a matter of basic freedom but if they are proven to abuse the trust or authority that goes with that position then they should be dealt with by the courts or disciplinary procedures
Ithink it's a shame that a good officer has been lost to the force when they need as many as they can get

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[quote=martyh;34760648]If he was a good officer he would not have felt the need to join a political party that he was informed was a banned organisation when he signed his contract of employment.

No one wants a policeman who thinks he can get away with flouting the rules of his employment because if he has disregarded that rule then how many other rules and regulations has he ignored during his time as an officer, just think about that and ponder it.

It is his kind of attitude thats gets modern policing a bad name.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[QUOTE=Moldova;34760653]he didn't join his brother did it as part of a family offer to get free membership this hasn't been disputed so we have to take it as true

the BNP is not a banned organisation if it was banned then no-one would be able to vote for them

just because someone joins a political party it does not mean they support all their ideals.Alot of the general population are becomming increasingly sympathetic to SOME of the BNP's ideals whether they admit it or not that doesn't mean they want to kick all non whites out of the country

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[QUOTE=martyh;34760664]I've posted this question twice now martyh with no response, so I'll give it one last shot.:)
"Would it be acceptable for a Muslim police officer to be a member of a "legal" Islamic hate group".

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

I'll answer you on that Froggie :) i would have no problem if he left his views at the door when he went to work anymore then i have a problem with this officer being on the bnp membership list even though it is looking increasingly like he never personally joined the bnp. Many people hold personal views that are not always compatable with the jobs they choose but they manage to seperate personal belief and professional responsibility and that seems to be the case here this was an officer with a good record in dealing with all sections of the community.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[QUOTE=frogstamper;34760673]He should have the right to belong to any legal organisation he wants to and as i've ALREADY stated if he breaks the law during any support of the organisation then that should be dealt with by the courts or dicsiplinary procedures

this is all about the freedom to choose what you want to believe and as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else then it's ok .If your employer imposed a restriction on joining the labour party because he didn't agree with their principles would you like it

---------- Post added at 00:02 ---------- Previous post was yesterday at 23:58 ----------

thank you RizzyKing,i have answered him twice but you put it much better than me

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Well Rizzy maybe if the guy behaved in the way you describe it may not be a problem, but in my opinion if an officer were to go as far as to join either the BNP or its Islamic equivalent they certainly wouldn't be the sort I'd like to see policing our cities.
In the case of the officer in question if his brother really did put his name down for membership without his knowledge then obviously he has been treated harshly, then again if not he knew what the outcome would be.
When all's said and done surely we want the best calibre of officer we can get and if that means saying no to memberships of far right and hate parties then in my opinion that's correct.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Quite simply he knows that he is not allowed to be a member of any such group and it does not matter that it was his brother who signed him up as he has a mind of his own and can decide rightly or wrongly if he actually wanted to be a member of such a group, plus if his brother joined and decided "oh hang on Steve want a bit of this!" and signed him up, I would say that is because he knew his brothers thoughts on becoming a member and did it for him.

You become a member of group then you lose your job, he could have told the BNP that he was not interested and when he received his membership card/details and informed his bosses of the error, but he did not, and if that was me I would have done exactly that.

So failed on all counts and was therefore deservedly sacked.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Much as I dislike the ethos of the BNP they are a legitimate political party and I fail to see that being a member should bar you from holding any job but yes if you discriminate against people whilst doing your job then yes you should be losing that job..

Getting rid of BNP members might seem like the police force are seen to be doing something about 'institutional racism but there are many police who aren't members of the BNP and yet do discriminate whilst doing the job who may well not be fired.:(

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

If you are a member of a legitimate political party, it should not be a bar to holding a job - if your job has terms stating you cannot be an active member (like the forces used to have, don't know about now), you know what you are getting into.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Just because you think and want it to be a racist organisation, doesn't mean it is. Whether you like it or not the BNP is a legal political party. Unless you want to go down the political route of countries like Zimbabwe and just ban any political parties that have a different ideology.


Yes, because private and confidential information held on databases is normally witheld from the public domain. Oh wait, here it is (thanks to nomadking):

He is that racist, ethnic minority officers are standing up for him.

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

[quote=frogstamper;34760673]no it wouldnt the same regulations would prohibit that to

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Go on, guess who said that.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

What ho! He's got it!

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Not difficult really, I'm just going to start reading Tory Troll every morning ... that way I should guess half the subjects you're going to post on, before you post them. ;)

Re: steve bottomley sacked..do we have the right?
 

No one is stopping anyone from joining the BNP (except the BNP). Steve Bettley can join the BNP if he wants. He just can't be a police officer as well. The Merseyside Police Authority have explained the reasons for his dismissal and that should be enough. If this term in his contract was unfair, don't you think it would have been challenged by now?

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Yes it has been disputed, by the MPA. If this was the case, he has had nearly six months to present this evidence. He hasn't, so the only conclusion is that he joined of his own free will. What happened to his mail, all the e-mails, his membership card and welcome pack, during this time? If a "family member" enrolled him without his consent, the family member has committed a criminal offence.

It is a proscribed organisation by the home office.

Nonsense. Are you telling us that people join this party even though they know full well of its racist agenda, its racist policies, manifesto and constitution. The fact that it blocks blacks, Asians and Muslims from joining. Do they ignore this and still join them?

People join this party because they are racist, there can be no other reason.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

But they are a racist party. I don't understand why that is in contention. They have a racist manifesto. They have a racist constitution. They have a racist memebrship recruitment policy. How much more racism do you need, in order to be called a racist?

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

The BNP aren't a proscribed organisation: http://security.homeoffice.gov.uk/le...rrorist-groups

And if the BNP are so racist, then why, especially in our ethnicity-sensitive climate do they just ban it outright?

You don't like the BNP but they are still a legal party and have as much right to exist and do business as the Labour party. For them to be racist I need some more legal censure than just taking your word for it.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

The BNP are racist, people try to add so many shades of gray to racism that we can't use the word anymore without someone saying it's political correctness. The BNP are seriously racist, they still want England to be for the 'indegious people' by which they mean anglo-saxon. They only recently dropped their policy of discoraging Mixed Race marriages and still dislike it.

They often win votes by using local incidents and blaming them on a local minority, many times they were not actually commited by that minority and police protests are ignored.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

But you can't just say they are racist and that's that.

I'm not trying to be difficult here. But its the difference between saying someone is guilty because his prints were on the weapon. He isn't. He is innocent until the courts give him an impartial trial and then finds him guilty.

Until the BNP the is banned through due process you can't just pretend its illegal and therefore banned.

I'm not arguing in favour of the BNP per se, but rights and due process apply to everyone. There are people here who are left-wing enough to ought to appreciate that.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Well there is no such thing as a conviction for being a Racist, there is inciting racial hatred (which Nick Griffin was on trial for) but we can't have an official verdict on their racism?

I guess it's your view or not but they limit membership to those who they consider 'British' (i.e British heritage and White) and wish to apply that to the nation. They, in a vain attempt to appear nice, said they would pay for the others to go back to their own countries. Of course, A lot of minorities are British, so where would they go? :rolleyes:

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

The executive and legal branches of our country have the power to ban the organisation, for amongst other things, being racist or being a terrorist organisation.

The fact that our government doesn't probably means the evidence isn't as clear as people would like to believe, and saying "I believe they are racist because of X, so there" doesn't wash in court.

Come on Damien, you're trying to paint me as either racist or stupid (or probably both), but i'm suprised that someone with a pedigree as liberal as yours is on the reactionary side here. Everyone deserves due process including those you dismiss as racist.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

I don't see where I was trying to paint you as racist or stupid. I can't see where I even hinted at such an accusation but sorry if that was the case, it was not my intention.

I don't want them banned, but I still feel free to label them racist because of their policies and their actions. I see no conflict with my political views in that. I am not the only one to dismiss them as racist either; there have been countless undercover investigations, statements from former high-level members and their own constitution (re: The White Britain thing).

The 'due process' issue is redundant here as there is no criminal trail for being racist, nor should there be. I don't view being racist as a criminal offensive and I am not suggesting they be thrown in jail for such a offensive based on my personal belief that they are a racist party.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

As long as the bnp are a legal political party in the UK they have to be accorded the same status and rights such as they are of all the other political partys. I completely dislike them and everything they stand for and would prefer they didn't exist but until such time as people in this country kill them off by not becoming members or they do something that allows whatever government to ban them as an organisation then they must recieve the same treatment as any other party.

Sorry but it is simply wrong to dismiss someone from a job who by all accounts did that job well and to the best of his ability dealing with all sections of society fairly and equally purely because he is a member of a legal UK political party. We don't have to like the bnp or anything about them to make the point that this is wrong and should never have happened and that is putting aside the fact that his membership however that might have come about was bought to light by an illegal act in the first place.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

In that case, I apologise too.

The issue isn't redundant. If the BNP posed a serious, credible threat to the security of the country (which includes increasing racial tensions - arguably something they do in Bradford and Oldham) then they can be banned immediately under the Terrorism act. Many organisations have already been done that. If they are "harmless" yet still racist (by some legal standard), then i'm sure there would be a legal recourse.

You think the BNP isn't banned because there is no tool to do it, but I do think its because the case isn't as strong as people would like to believe - if held up to a recognised judicial standard.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

The BNP are a legit political party, just because you don't share their views, doesn't make it OK to ban them! I cant stand the Labour party, but you cant ban them. Neither do I like the fact we have terrorists in Parliament, but the political process is favourable to what was going on in NI!
As I've said, the BNP serve a purpose, they make the Tories and Labour acceptable faces of politics!!
Also, if the main parties dealt with immigration/segregation properly there would be no need for them, but they are becoming more popular, which goes to show people are desperate.

As for the ex-copper, how can he be a member, and be impartial? That said, they should also ban membership to the masons!

---------- Post added at 00:35 ---------- Previous post was at 00:30 ----------

Not for white officers it doesn't, its no better than the BNP, its a racist organisation by the fact it excludes white officers

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

The BNP doesn't exclude on the basis of race. IIRC there has been at least one report of a non-white member.

Do the Black Police Association, Jewish groups, Muslim groups, Afro-Caribbean groups etc (its a very long list) exclude anybody?

Never understood why where a particular type of group (eg a deaf club) is largely based on location eg Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle etc, certain races/faiths have their own club that is not based on location. So they may live in Leeds but not belong to the Leeds branch of that type of club, but to the race/faith based one. That is racism.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

If he was a member by personal choice and there seems to be some doubt about that it is entirely possible for him to have some support for some of the moderate policys of the bnp and still leave his political affiliation at the door when he went to work and that seems to be what happened. Remember this is an officer that had other officers who were ethnic minority members standing up for him so he can't have been the usual knuckle dragging bnp member could he.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

I challenge a white officer to join!!, bet he gets knocked back!

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

They have had a token non-white member (an Asian) in one of their videos. I admit to be unsure of their specific membership policy but I do know what their constitution says and it states that membership is for the indigenous population. It also states that policy should apply for membership of Great Britain PLC.

Technically, As my family tree is not long established in this country I would also be kicked out. Although I believe since I am White they might overlook it.

As for the other groups you mention, that is a tricky area I am not totally comfortable with. However Religious groups make sense, why should an Atheist attend a Christian club? (They may well still be welcome though!). That is a club formed out of a common interest.

Others are formed in relation to cultures, An Asian society at a University is not racist, it's a way for Asians (and others) to keep in touch with their culture. We, as White Brits, do not need such a society since we live in our culture.

The only one that may be considered racist is where their membership is limited by race and it's goal is to either promote their own race at the expense of others or promote race inequality by any other means. I would consider those groups racist.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

That'll be the black police officers association then!!

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

If you live in Leeds, are deaf and Jewish, you should join the Leeds Deaf club not the Jewish Deaf Club. There is no real justification for doing otherwise.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Eh?

Unless you want to discuss your shared religion, heritage, culture and matters that affect/are relevant to Jewish people.

---------- Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------

Could we have some more info on this mythical "non-white" member, as it would appear if he/she exists, he/she is breaking the membership rules of our BNP chummies.

BNP Constitution page 4, Section 2:Membership
"1) The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

Oi. No bringing facts into this, you're getting in the way of a perfectly good rant ;)

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

So no need to be British as long as your white? :rolleyes:

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

And like Folk Music, apparently....:D

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

That seems to be the long and the short of it. I don't know why some people want to beat around the bush here. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. The BNP's recruitment policy is explicitly based on race. That makes it racist. A turd by any other name would smell as nasty.



Wrong.

Here's a statement from the homepage of the National Black Police Association:

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

So how many white police officers are members of the NBPA i am asking purely as i am curious if they say it is open to everyone.

Re: steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?
 

It does not matter how many members they have, or how their demographic is constructed. They have declared that their official recruitment policies are aimed at full inclusion. The BNP, on the other hand......