Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7944334.stm

This guy want to have a minimum 50p per unit on alcohol.

Well that would mean the vodka I but 90 proof i buy would have

700ml bottle = 26.5 units
litre bottle = 37.5 units

So you are looking at £13 to £19 a bottle, and that before mark-ups.

I will then get mine fron Cite Europe in Calias for £15 for 1 litre of 100 proof.

Again the small minority screw it up for the senisble drinkers.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

i have a feeling that some one at Labour party HQ has pressed the self destruct button ,this is just another in a long line of election losing ideas, I'm sick of being nannied to death and i consider it my patriotic duty to make sure that new reinvented Labour never get back in power ..

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

I'm picturing panic buying in netto people brawling over cases of stella , i'm going down their as soon as i have finished this box :D

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Absolutly :tu:

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

I think this might actually work if the minimum price is set at a sensible level.

Either that or lace a random number of bottles of Frosty Jack, MD 20/20, Thunderbird etc. with poison to thin out of the number of 'problem' drinkers.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

That could work - although if it contained a small explosive it could take out the whole pub with one bottle which would be much more "cost-affective" i think :D

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Pub? Most of the drinkers of frosty jack tend to be in flats where the furnishings consist of a huuuuuuuuge telly, some suspiciously stained couches and bare floorboards.

Setting off a bomb in there might do several thousand pounds worth of improvements.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

So if there was a minimum price, who would get the extra profit?

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

The government.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Always thought this would happen as soon as the anti smoking facists had their way(i am a non smoker by the way) then alcohol would be their next target and so it is.:(

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Do what i'm doing drink faster before this law is brought in

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

I've always felt that tax collect from 'specific' area should be spent in that 'specific' area (not just lumped into the coffers)

So it could be used for:

Extra policing/survellance Sat nights
Clearing up the street on Sun morning
(arresting the drunk & disorderly and getting them to clear the streets on Sun morn)
Investing in non-alchohol rellated activities (free health centre / swimming pool etc on Saturday nights?)

Governments have never felt any obligation to justify taxes - probably because they wont do any of those and just give themselves a jolly good pay rise instead

.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

I'm lucky in the fact I get to drive to our base in Belgium, or one of the guys in my department whom travel there every other week will do a booze stop and get me some bottles.

So this will price increase will achieve nothing in my eyes.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Sure i read somewhere that the government accrue something in the region of £13 billion per quarter from smoking tax

Had just 1% of that been spent in cancer research it would have been irradicated 20 years ago - god only knows what could've been acheived with 10% of those taxes

but instead, it paid for a lot of over-weight mp's to gewt a bigger car to haul their big fat @ssed around in

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Can see this being a minefield actually,would this new tax apply equally to pubs/clubs if not i could seeing the supermarkets going to court their prices would go up by government dik-tat but not pubs /clubs. Also if the price did go up in pubs thousands more could close as they are doing now even before such a tax ,jobs would go in the brewing industry which brews in the uk most of what we consume,at a time of deep recession not very clever to have breweries closing just before an election (most are in nu-labours heartlands),hopefully this one will be kicked in the long grass where it belongs.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

I think its fairly easy. Have one level of duty for alcohol sold to be consumed on the premises and another (higher) level for alcohol sold to be consumed elsewhere.

Easy to enforce as most of the binge drinkers don't tend to buy in kegs of premium lager or bottles of wine.

If it becomes more appealing financially to drink in pubs/clubs they would benefit rather than the current climate of a few hours drinking in the house, a taxi to the club when already hammered and a taxi back for more drink and probably a fight.

Initially when this idea was floated in Scotland I was sceptical but the more I hear and the more I think about it I think its one of the few good ideas the Government has had recently.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

I have to admit, I don't know if raising prices alone will work. It hasn't with Smoking.

What I think the Government need to do is cut the amount of shops licenced to sell alcohol and ban all these Buy One Get One Free type deals.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

And put me out of a job :confused: (ok its my 2nd job - but needs must!).

We don't actually sell any 'kiddie' type drinks in the off licence I work in, but i do notice the alcoholics that come in always buy cider cos its so cheap. But if prices rise isn't it just going to go underground like fags did :confused:

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

You say that about two tier taxes,but in my town we have three nightclubs presumably the two tier tax would not cover them,well they do 2 for 1 offers and cheap booze most nights in these clubs ,the teenagers and youngsters come out of them,and sorry to be so graphic at lunchtime,are sick over the pavement and urinate in the street and fight clearly they had bought the booze not in supermarkets but inside the clubs(our town centre has a alcohol ban in place which is enforced so no street drinking) ,they also use the local pubs to get tanked up in before the nightclubs open,why is it fair that me an adult of nearly 50 should be penalised for buying a few cans in a supermarket and anybody drinking in pubs clubs does not have to pay it highly unfair.


I hope the supermarkets do not let down thousands of responsible drinkers like myself down ,on the wim of a government policy and fight this in court as unfair competiton,clearly weather two tier or not any tax that makes one establishment charge more for its product then another is unfair. :mad:

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

The majority of young people get tanked up before they go into pubs/clubs in my experience, making off-licence booze more expensive would get them into pubs sooner rather than trying to cram all their drinking into a short space of time. Coupled with more effective enforcement of licensing laws (It's an offence to serve alcohol to drunk people in Scotland, I'd imagine England/Wales has a similar law) I think its the most effective way of dealing with the problem.

Its not overly penalising the person who wants to have a few quiet drinks in the house (at least the Scottish plans aren't, I haven't read the full proposals for England yet).
Its targetting the people who go out and get the cheapest drink possible, get off their faces on it and repeat that cycle day-in, day-out.
Under the proposals the minimum price for some drinks would be less than they are sold for already.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

But Derek how about moderate drinking folk like me going out for a quiet drink being penalised...Why should those who don't ever get drunk be made to pay higher prices..:(

I think that it might be time to stock up on home brewing kits...:scratch:

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

How is it not if alcohol were sold in english supermarkets as per the proposals,a bottle of bacardi would go up from around £11 to £19 roughly how is that not penalisng the responsible drinker, also the stronger lagers are say £4 at present in supermarkets they would also go up under the 50 per unit proposals (ie 4 cans 2.5 units each ten units £5) ,all of which would have the effect of responsible drinkers paying more something which imo,is very unfair.

Which drinks would be cheaper then they are now then alcohol free lager!


Also young people do fill our pubs at the weeknd here in essex the town centre pubs have bouncers on the doors to stop trouble and sell cheap booze to get people in ,under the present proposals this would still continue,no doubt people do drink as welll before coming out however it is wrong to demonise supermarkets for this or off licences for that matter. Any increase in supermarkets may well have the effect of putting responsible drinkers off though,thereby putting jobs in the brewing industry at risk hopefully they and the supermarkets can see this excercise in nannying off.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Going out for a quiet drink would remain almost the same price unless you tend to go for the 'women only, all you can drink for a tenner' type of places (which I doubt ;) )

Moderate drinkers would see a marginal increase, you need to get into serious quantities of booze before you see a big difference.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:31 ----------

At the current proposed levels a bottle of frosty jack would go from £2.99 to £11.25 which is the type of drink they are looking at.

Obviously the plan needs to be discussed but I think there are definite benefits to it.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Ah, politicians solving problems at their best, their solution: Put up prices.

I agree there is a binge problem and something needs to be done to tackle the issue but it's like with road congestion, politicians came up with the Congestion Charge.

Put up the rates on alcohol substantially and we will see more muggings, petty crime as teenagers take to voilence to be able to afford that new expensive drink. I just don't think raising prices is a solution because then people who only moderately drink are being penalised. Not only that but kids will get the extra money needed from somewhere else, it won't IMO solve a problem.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Showing my ignorance here LOL but what is frosty jack! could be my age though it must have a very high alcohol content indeed.


But the all you can drink for a tenner pubs would also be stopped i take it,as obviously they are cheaper then the supermarkets if you drank enough.Hic Hic.

But as a moderate drinker still do not see why i should pay anymore then now and i vote too.!!!! If it was just kiddie type drinks ie alcopops and the like i could live with it though.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

What is it these days with trying to solve all problems with tax if they really want to sort out the problem with alcohol then just go back to the old way of not getting served if your drunk. Many is the time i have been in pubs with friends and seen people who could barely stand getting served and continuing to be served until they get rowdy. Yes there is a problem with alcohol and a certain group in our country but hitting everyone is not the way to solve it.

I say this as someone who doesn't drink and i would also like to stop getting ripped off for soft drinks :). Most people are perfectly able to go for a grown up drink in social surroundings and not leave the pub looking for trouble so stop hitting those and take the time and put in the effort to go after the pains in the backside.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

It's the drink of choice in the area I work in. Cheap 'cider' in a 3 litre bottle.

It tends to be on sale at £2.99 a bottle with a 7.5 ABV and tastes absolutely foul.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

The other solution - get rid of 24 hour opening hours, it really is laughable when they raise concerns about there being a binge drinking problem with the younger generation, yet 24 hour opening hours was introduced not that long ago ...

It is Double standards. Just like the government forcing the issue of a more Greener environment and then go champion plans to for a new runway at one the UK's main airports.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Surely just because you dont like taste of it why tax it higher :cool: i dont like sherry or wine but i dont go shouting for it too be banned , i bet theres far more wine pss heads than cheap cider drinkers but because wine is drunk more indoors among hauty tauty people it cant be wrong , if i was upto me i dont know what i'd do

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Sounds disgusting there is a cider here called white lightning sounds the equivellent cheap and about 7.5 strength.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:57 ----------

One solution may be the continental way of doing things,in their teens in france for instance a glass of wine is served with a meal therefore when they get older the youngsters are used to having a drink and its not hey were now 18 lets go and get sh-tfaced, on the continent this problem with binge drinking youngsters is hardly seen so they must be doing something right.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

i agree, 24hr drinking has never really took off were i live,i think most places that applied for it were refused permision,not really surprised given the state of the bigg market on a saturday night

Also wasn't Sir Liam Donaldson involved in the ban smoking legislation,cos if he was then this new proposal is bound to go through

and can any one tell me what a "unit" is,how much alchohol is in a "unit"
sorry to be ignorant but i only drink friday/saturday night and i only drink pint's so how does a "unit" equate to a pint of john smiths (which by the way has just gone up 30p to £2.50) in my local

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Strength (ABV) x Volume (ml) ÷ 1000 = No. of units

E.g. Pint of Stella - 5.2 x 568 ÷ 1000 = 2.95

Taken from

http://www.drinkaware.co.uk/tips-and-tools/drink-diary/

which is useful, but may surprise some people when they see how low the recommended units of alcohol are per day

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

cant see this ever being successful as a minimum price under competition laws especialy if there were differences between supermarkets and clubs

as a tax it may be doable

but in either case i cant see it stopping the problem drinkers

they take hospital hand sanitizer for goodness sake to sake thier desires

see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7920576.stm

as to clubbers you more than likely just see an increase in people taking in pre bought imported drink or just using drugs to increase the effect

better would be enforcing the laws we have that are mostly ignored

• It is illegal to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk
• It is illegal to allow a customer to become intoxicated on your premises
• It is illegal to serve customers under the legal drinking age of 18.

there should be at busy premises 1 drink per person at bar rule, it may cause cues ;) give them longer to sober up though lol

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

thanks for clearing that up (i think), i'll have to carry a calculater now so i know when i'm supposed to fall over

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------

excellant point with one addition
taking drinks out of a bar to drink in the street whilst wating in cue for the next bar should be outlawed or enforced if it is already outlawed

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

[sarky mode]What? Make the publicans (and police) do their jobs? Rely on old laws when nu-labor can bring in new ones that duplicate the old laws but bring in more cash? [/sarky mode]

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

rofl ;)

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

:tu:

This 'government's answer to everything seems to be 'tax it'. They make life increasingly difficult, onerous, unpleasant and expensive for the majority and fail to get to grips with those who have/create the problems. If they started banging up drunks and those who sell to under age drinkers rather than dishing out umpteen warnings, cautions and fines we might see a reduction in binge drinking without penalising the majority for whom a quiet drink is one of the UK's fast diminishing legal pleasures.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Time to start up my beer brewing again......:)

---------- Post added at 20:45 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

Thats simply because they are after our money, they are a tax and spend govt...:(

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

So Bliar's claim that 'we have no plans to raise taxes' was just a cynical lie to buy votes???.... Surely not.... :rolleyes:

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

It was more like a strategy, than a plan ;)

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

He meant direct taxes ie income tax which has actually seen a reduction on the basic rate,not indirect taxation ie vat and the like.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

What you mean like lie, lie again, keep lying, then lie a bit more and hope the electorate don't notice too soon ?....

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

so why dont the police prosecute the bar owners who have obviously served drunk people ?

as to price the proposed system would be unlikely to see any prices reduced just put up

one large flagon of cider was just given on news would go up from £4 odd to nearly £12

and just working out my case of cider which last us a few weeks would go up from £17 to nearly £28 + what ever the store would put on to make a profit

cant see it myself

as i pointed out before

• It is illegal to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk
• It is illegal to allow a customer to become intoxicated on your premises
• It is illegal to serve customers under the legal drinking age of 18.

cant see how it would be hard to get the clubs and off-licences prosecuted if the police and courts got thier act together

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

exactly :)

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

The money spent on clearing up the local economies far outweighs the money bought in from alcohol sales, the revenue from alcohol sales is £2billion a year, the cost of alcohol violence, clearing up, nurses, doctors and ambulance staff £4billion a year.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

Oh right - so why didn't he just say that then?...

Why didn't someone as honest and articulate as Bliar simply say they were not going to increase rates of income tax but were going to increase taxes on virtually everything else plus dream up a whole load more things to tax so that the overall tax burden would in fact be higher under New Labour?.... :rolleyes:

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

They do. Licensees and bar workers get done on a fairly regular basis for licensing offences including serving already drunk people alcohol.

Re: Plans for minimum alcohol price
 

then they should be able to shut the offending places permanently if they are such a big problem in areas with out raising prices to everyone else

as of yet i have not seen many clubs or pubs closed because of this

watched another police program again ( wife likes them lol ) the other night lots of drunk people leaving clubs saw no police rushing in to get the bar staff but lots of moaning about the behaviour and about it being every friday weekend etc

seems to me if the laws were being enforced properly then they wouldnt be coming out of the clubs drunk every friday weekend etc

unless bar staff managers only last a week at thier jobs all the time ;) would have thought if this was the case getting the licensee changed over all the time would be a bit of a headache