V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Hi everyone,

I've just bought an HD-ready TV and want to press it into action. But I'm torn between going with the Virgin V+ system (I already have phone and broadband with them) and going the Freesat route. Sky is not an option for various reasons.

Here are my questions:

1. Is there a difference in quality in the Standard Definition and High Definition output between V+ and Freesat?

2. At the moment, Virgin only has one HD channel (BBC) but is promising more soon. Do you think they will increase the monthly rental fee as more HD channels come on stream? Or will it remain at the £5 level?

3. Is it worth waiting for the new Samsung V+ box to be guaranteed installed?

That's it. Any and all reflections welcome.

Many thanks!

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Well, the quality should be the same, as they are both able to output 1080i. In practice of course different brands of box have slightly different characteristics. The thing is, there can't be too many people who have ever seen a V+ box and a Freesat HD box working side by side so it's going to be very hard to get a recommendation.

On price, I'd say it's unlikely they will try to increase the subscription when more HD channels come on stream as they will want to try to compete with Sky to some degree.

And it doesn't matter how long you wait, you are not guaranteed to get a brand new box when you subscribe to Virgin. So even when they have only been buying in Samsung boxes for months, you might still not get one.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

I've just spoken to Virgin and the guy guaranteed the new Samsung box. He said all new customers are getting them and that the only grumbles you hear are from existing customers who want to upgrade but are being fobbed off.

He told me that when the installer comes - if it's not a Samsung, send him away.

So I feel pretty confident of getting the new one. And have just signed up. After much negotiation, he offered to drop the installation cost from £99 to £49, so I'm smiling...

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Well done for getting the installation price cut. Cross your fingers on the sort of box you get though. Some of the sales agents will say whatever they think you want to hear to get you to sign up. ;)

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Will cross my fingers - and brace for a battle if they turn up with the wrong box.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Well, I'd be braced to sweet-talk the installer rather than battle with him. Plenty of tea and biscuits on hand. There may well be a good supply of Samsungs out with the installers already, but the sales agent really has guaranteed you something that s/he was not in any position to give you a guarantee about. If the installer doesn't bring a Samsung into your house, it's not the installer's fault. But if he doesn't, and you're nice to him, he might be able to go and get you one ...

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Yes, I suppose I was using "battle" in the broadest sense of the word - ie. plenty of cajoling, wooing, buttering up, tea and biscuits etc before bringing out the heavy artillery...

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

....although I found that using the manacles in the cellar while practicing my knife throwing act got a result with my installer..:disturbd::disturbd:

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

If things get really sticky, I might have to dust off my medieval rack...

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

You know Madonna???

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Not in the biblical sense. Thankfully...

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

So long as you express a preference you'll priobably get it - If they have both it's no skin off their nose - i asked for a std samsung box when they also supplied pace box and the woman noted it down on my installation order

.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Yeah, I figure I'm home free now...

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

No-one really answered this. Of course they are both digital connections - but the picture quality can still vary wildly dependent upon compression rates used (watched Setanta lately?). Does anyone know which service has the greater bitrates per channel?

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

You're right - no one really answered. Perhaps because it is very hard to compare - I'm sure the TV companies themselves would rather the consumer couldn't line up the bit-rates etc for all the different services to make a fully informed decision...I'm going with Virgin because it's easier, and I don't want a dish on my house...

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

The dish was the clincher for me too. And the Humax HD PVR is about 300 quid.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

I don't know what bitrates Virgin use but one could assume they are similar. I wouldn't like to guess either way.

The bitrates for Freeview can be found on the following site:

http://dtt.me.uk/

Freesat for CH4 can be found at:

http://linowsat.de/0282/all/0282.shtml

I've also heard the ITV has better bitrates on Freeview so that may help. The one problem to all this is that bit rates aren't constant and are liable to change between networks - should be enough to give an idea though.

If someone can confirm the Virgin bitrates you should be able to make a comparison.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Yes, I also figured that getting a signal down a cable would always be better than getting one via satellite - short-term and long-term.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Not necessarily true.

Satellite can reliable transport many HD channels (as Sky does)...

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Sorry for not replying earlier!:( I have both systems and I can say that when it comes to SD the V+ box has the edge. On HD there is not a lot between the two but the functionality of the V+ leaves the Humax PVR standing. Then of course you have VOD on Virgin which I find really useful.

"You pays your money and you takes your chances".:)

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Better late then never - that fits in with what I've been hearing elsewhere. Thanks!

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

The cost difference isn't as big as you think - it's mainly just down to how you pay it. With Freesat the cost is upfront; with Sky the cost is spread over months as you're tied into a subscription, without which the box's '+' features won't work. Also, if you stop paying the subscription, you can no longer access any of the premium content you may still have stored on the PVR. Of course with VM you don't even own the box at all and when you stop paying the subscription it is as useful as a doorstop to you.

Unless you get value for money out of your monthly TV subscription (and in my experience many people don't), the best route is to buy your HD PVR and use it with Freesat.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Ahh, but my decision would be FreeSat Vs. VM. I wouldn't consider giving any money to that Murdoch (a vicious man, and a racist to boot).

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

In which case your decision is even more clear-cut. If you expect to watch the subscription channels enough to justify what you pay for them, then great, get V+. But if you're getting it purely for the sake of having an HD PVR, it's not such great value. Especially considering you don't own the box, and cannot access any of the recordings on it, the moment you stop subscribing.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Why do I want to own the box? As it is I get free maintenance and repairs?

And if I ever decide to leave I can archive stuff to DVD if I want.

(And when my Humax dies I lose any the unarchived recordings too).

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Again, the first consideration is whether you primarily want subscription TV or not. If you do, then paying an ongoing subscription is fine. If you don't, and you're purely wanting the HD and PVR functions, it makes no sense to pay an open-ended subscription that will, before long, end up costing you more than the up-front cost of a Freesat+HD box.

If you ever decide to leave, you can indeed archive your old stuff first, but once you have left, you have no equipment to show for your months or years of payments to VM, and no choice but to go and buy something to replace the HD and PVR functions you have just lost.

As for 'when' your Humax dies ... all equipment has a finite life, but we have no reason to expect it to die prematurely. It should give plenty of years service before that becomes an issue.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

My point was that the V+ has indefinite life - as long as you pay your subs.

But those subs get you a lot more besides (e.g. all VOD stuff, free and premium).

You could argue that a V+ box is future-proof as well. Although it will always be behind the curve in terms of leading edge features, VM will presumably keep updating the box every few years. Won't they!?!?!? Heh heh.

Re: V+ vs. Freesat?
 

Indeed it does. But then all this is is a re-hash of the old debate, to rent or to buy. Radio Rentals, Rumbelows, Martin Dawes ... all businesses that made their name renting TVs to people. Nowadays most people prefer to buy. Why? Because in real terms the equipment is cheaper, people earn more, and most important, it's a heck of a lot more reliable so the 'free repairs' argument isn't as persuasive as it used to be.

The same is true of the V+. It is very safe, you will get repairs and replacements, but I'm willing to bet you will pay more for that than you would by simply buying your own Freesat box and replacing it when it eventually wears out. That's why I've been prefacing my comments with the caveat about subscribing to get the TV channels rather than the PVR functions. If you actually want the TV channels, then you're probably getting value for money. If you're simply looking for a PVR rental service, you almost certainly aren't.