The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Or is it worth buying a better quality one, would I expect to see any improvement?

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

You'll see no improvement. The cable supplied is sufficent :)

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Lots of test have shown that the more expensive cables are a complete waste of money.

IRC there is some benfit if you need a really long cable (25m or more)

Stick with the one supplied and save your money

JJ

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Not worth the cost for hte slight improvement you may or might not notice.

More info redgards V+ here http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10...855-v-faq.html

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

As HDMI is a digital connection and the signal is either 1 or 0 there's very little benefit to using using a more expensive cable until you're into the 20m+ cable lengths. For a typical 1.8m cable between the v+ and tv there will be ZERO difference between a £50 monster cable, and a £5 budget one, regardless of what the guy in currys says. With analogue connections going for expensive lower resistance cables does have some benefit, but with digital the signal can't degrade enough over short runs to effect the picture (you'd have to introduce enough noise so as a 0 became a 1 or vice versa).

The reason we get stupidly expensive cables thrown at us is because the markup on cables is ridiculously high, you're talking 150% markup for some brands, so it's where stores can make a lot of money. In most cases they'll have very little margin on a TV, and their entire profit comes from extended warranties and cables.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

This is what tickles me when I see outfits like monster cable who claim the earth with their products. If you look at the HDMI connector ends they are microscopic so (in reality) there's very little that could be done to improve performance. Anyway as the signals are digital - it really doesn't matter.

However, it is true that with very long lengths performance can suffer due to the electrical resistance of the cable. Reduction of this loss can be achieved by increasing the cross sectional area of the actual cores within same, basically more copper less resistance, but even then you're constrained with the size of the HDMI connectors themselves.

If one uses the analogy of trying to connect a hosepipe to a medial syringe - no matter how much liquid there is in the pipe or how much pressure is applied you won't get it out any quicker that the needle on the syringe will allow.

So unless you enjoy paying for a brand name (not the product) stick with what you've got there owd cocker.

Si thee :Sprint:

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

You're not constrained by the size of the connectors at all though. Your analogy falls apart when you realise that data flow in a cable is nothing like water flow in a pipe, the diameter of the cable does not effect the data capacity, you're not using thicker cables to get more data down there, so it doesn't matter that the connector has to downsize to a smaller core, it won't create a bottleneck like a pipe would. If the majority of the cable is lower resistance thicker core cable then the 1cm of thinner core cable into the connectors won't have much of an effect. The overall resistance of the cable will still be far lower than if the entire cable was made of the same thin core cable.

Low resistance cabling in general isn't snake oil, however using it for digital connections over short runs is.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Granted you are correct when you are referring to data flow and I wouldn't argue that fact. However current flow is what I was reffering to - Ohms law, I.e. the thinner the core the more resistance it has, etc - guess I should have made this clear.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Yes, which still says that you can have a thicker core for the majority of the run to get a massive benefit on the overall resistance, and you only have to downsize to a thinner core at the actual connector. You seem to be implying that because the size of the pins in the connectors is thin the entire run of cable has to be the same size, it doesn't because you don't get bottlenecks when downsizing cable diameter like you do with pipe. You'll only encounter higher resistances for the final bit of cable in the actual connector, the length of the actual cable can have any size core you want.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Did I - where?

Anyway in laymans terms to clarify:

EFFECT OF CROSS-SECTIONAL AREA. - Cross-sectional area greatly affects the magnitude of resistance. If the cross-sectional area of a conductor is increased, a greater quantity of electrons are available for movement through the conductor. Therefore, a larger current will flow for a given amount of applied voltage. An increase in current indicates that when the cross-sectional area of a conductor is increased, the resistance must have decreased. If the cross-sectional area of a conductor is decreased, the number of available electrons decreases and, for a given applied voltage, the current through the conductor decreases. A decrease in current flow indicates that when the cross-sectional area of a conductor is decreased, the resistance must have increased. Thus, the RESISTANCE OF A CONDUCTOR IS INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL TO ITS CROSS-SECTIONAL AREA.

EFFECT OF CONDUCTOR LENGTH. - The length of a conductor is also a factor which determines the resistance of a conductor. If the length of a conductor is increased, the amount of energy given up increases. As free electrons move from atom to atom some energy is given off as heat. The longer a conductor is, the more energy is lost to heat. The additional energy loss subtracts from the energy being transferred through the conductor, resulting in a decrease in current flow for a given applied voltage. A decrease in current flow indicates an increase in resistance, since voltage was held constant. Therefore, if the length of a conductor is increased, the resistance increases. THE RESISTANCE OF A CONDUCTOR IS DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO ITS LENGTH.

Also a characteristic of copper is that when it's temperature increases so does it's electrical resistance resulting in an increase in current - though (in this case) one would not imply that an excessive length of cable would get hot.

Anyway to save getting into a pi**ing contest - we'll agree to disagree and I'll stick to what I originally recommended (to Mr Moo) in the first place "stick with what you've got there owd cocker"

Fin and Si thee :Sprint:

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

This entire post:

The bolded bit, and the final paragraph both imply that the size of the connectors somehow limits the cables core size. Especially your little bit about the needle which completely misses the point that this is NOTHING like liquid flow so there will be no bottleneck effecting the total flow, the resistance in the connector has a negligible effect on the overall resistance of any cable as it's only relevant for the extremely small distance it's used. Whereas in a pipe the entire pipe can only flow as fast as the smallest cross section in a cable the resistance isn't based on the highest resistance, each resistance only matters for however long that section of the cable is.

Monster cables are FAR lower resistance than your usual off the shelf no name component, and over long distances, or with analogue signals, they will have a huge effect on how much the signal degrades. To write them all off is foolish.

As I said to start with, your typical 1.8m HDMI from V+ to TV (or any other short run digital connection) it really doesn't matter what the cable is, as over that distance the resistance of the cable won't have enough of an effect on the signal to alter it. Over long distances and for analogue connections you want as low resistance as possible, and that's what the high end cables provide.

The rest of your post is irrelevant as no one is disagreeing with how resistance works, the point is you pointed to the size of the connector is a "they can't do anything about that" way, when the size of the connector is ultimately irrelevant to the total resistance of the cable as the cable will be FAR thicker than the pins in the connector, and those tiny little pins will ultimately provide a fraction of the overall resistance.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

You'll *see* no improvement

HDMI uses digital transfer

It a bit like suggesting the quality of USB cable will be reflected in the quality of a file being transfered

Or cheaper mobile phone will receive a poorer text message

In case of digital transfer it either works or it dont - and you'll know if it dont :)

Only benefits a better quality hdmi cable could possibly have would be in the fitting - say a cheap one might no fit so snug, or wear faster and might just fall out

Of course large cable companies who made a mint on the diminishing 'analogue' cable market are *desperate* for you to beleive otherwise
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Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

This is not strictly true. At very fast data rates, the digital waveforms are not "perfect" and complex clock and data recovery (and error correction) circuitry is used to reconstruct the original bits.

If the digital signal is sufficiently noisy then errors can be introduced. This "noise" can take many forms (jitter, cross-talk, attenuation).

It is however interesting that none of the expensive cable manufacturers use quantative data to specify their products. i.e. what is the bit-error rate of a bog-standard 1m 1.3a HDMI cable Vs. their super-dooper variety.

It's also important to understand how any bit-errors might manifest themselves. With analog signals, degradation is apparent as ghosting, snow, etc... With digital you are more likely to see the picture "freeze" or break up. Much more catastrophic failures!

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

The woman in Curry's when I bought my Blu-ray player (S350) tried to pull this on on me. She ended up getting really confused though.

First she asked me if I already had an HDMI cable to which I said I did. She then tried to convince me that HDMI was better than composite. ????? well durr but I've already stated I had an HDMI cable so whats the point in telling me that.

Then she tried to convince me that the £60 Monster cable would transmit more of a picture than my existing cable i.e. my existing cable wouldn't include all of the picture. ???? to this I replied bullocks! :shocked:

However its sad that they've got to lie so much to try and swindle people out of more money than they need to. If I'd have known nothing about this she'd have got another £60 out of me, shameful.:mad:

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

More or less what i meant when i said:

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

It's easy to criticise Curry's employees - but you should remember that Currys doesn't pay well, so cannot hire the most qualified/motivated staff and doesn't train them well either. If they're treated so poorly, is it any wonder they're not the most convincing salesforce.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

I am one of these laymen, i have a 42 inch panasonic viera 1080p plasma, i 'ahem' was convinced to buy a £50 hdmi cable from said currys, i was impressed with the excellent picture and sound, then i bought a 37 inch LG lcd for another room, then used the 'normal' hdmi supplied by Virgin, guess what, superb picture and sound.

Here endeth my first expensive lesson.

Btw, i think in my opinion, and i'm far from 'technical', is to by the £10 or so hdmi cable, but obviously i only make sure it is 1080p compatible as is both my tv's, then i think that will be and is absolutely fine.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

It's not the employees that get criticised, but the company (and actually pretty much any one that sells tvs and interconnects) for pushing overpriced, over marked up, cables to customers that don't have a clue just so as they can profit to them. That they're not the most convincing salesmen is irrelevant, the products they are pushing are pretty much snake oil, and better training and more convincing sales pitches do not change that.

Most people when they go to buy a TV don't know the difference between most TVs, they go on the showroom looks (and the TVs with the highest markups will be set up to have a better picture) and what the salesmen say. It's not really the salesmen's fault, they're just doing their jobs, the companies behind them push them to sell the highest markup items. It's not just currys, but even specialist outlets like richer sounds (who'll always be pushing LG sets for instance) do the same.

The customer just gets bombarded with tech spiel that is meaningless to what they want, and so just go along with what they are told. They don't know that there's no difference between a budget 1.8m no name cable and a monster oxygen free cable, they just know all the stats they're told in the store that makes the monster cable far superior on paper.

If the salesmen started telling them the truth they'd soon be out of a job, and it's even worse when they're on commission because then they're pretty much forced into pushing the higher markup items just to make a normal wage.

Luckily with the internet being what it is these days more and more people are actually researching what they're spending their money on and go in knowing exactly what they want.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Precisely!

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

bit OT but that makes me cringe with womens cosmetics on TV

..this hair shampoo contain "info-moby-oxy-labideans"...

like some woman at homes gonna go:

"oh great - i wondered when i was gonna be able to get "info-moby-oxy-labideans" - i buy a bottle now :D

what cringes me is the advertiser just say it like everyone knows what they're yakkin about - probably half the time women just feel like they 'ought' to know what they are

.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Its obviously company policy so I blame them.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Don't forget that specialised ingredient found in almost all beauty products... Aqua!

I still don't understand why they can't just list it as water. It reminds me of the campaigns to get hydroxilic acid and dihydrogen monoxyide (both just chemical names for water) banned due to the severe health risks.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

In my case I was not given an HDMI connecting lead when they fitted the V+ Box so purchased one , which was cheap ,and it does the job well. Just another example of the rather poor service VM are providing.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

I was walking around my local Comet when I saw them selling a 3 metre Monster 400 HDMI cable for £20 was worth over £150 so I bought it.

I haven't noticed any major difference.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

So no major difference. So what are the minor differences you've noticed?

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

If the installer doesn't leave one then you can phone them up to request they send one out to you free of charge. Just another example of the great service VM are providing.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

Officially, there are two standards of HDMI cable - 1 and 2. Type 1 cables are tested to 75Mhz which is supposed to be equivalent to it carrying a 1080i signal. Type 2 cables are tested to 340Mhz which means it can easily carry a 1080p signal (and higher).

At the moment in the UK, most HD TV broadcasts are in 720p with a few of Skys in 1080i (I think) and it's unlikely to change. So, even if Virgin were to start broadcasting some of the Sky HD stuff, a type 1 cable will be enough - in other words, a cheap one!

So, like everyone says, there will be no visible difference at all on a normal sized screen over normal distances. The only time you might want to consider one is if you are using a large screen (over 60") which is a distance from a 1080p source.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

On a similar vein, I shelled out £15 for an optical TOSlink cable from Maplins & to be honest, I don't think it's that much better than my old cambridge Atlantic audio leads I used before!

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

[HD content on V+ & Sky+HD is broadcast at 1080i, not 720p.]


Even if you did need a category 2 (aka "HDMI v1.3", aka "High Speed") HDMI cable, there is still no need whatsoever to buy a monstrously priced one...

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

I have some Cambridge Audio Atlantic and some Pacific cables, I thought they were a very good compromise between cost and performance for analogue signals. For me the advantage of the Optical cables on a digital platform is the smaller form factor, they are easier to route and hide and less prone to interference and pick-up.

On the subject of HDMI and digital signal transfer in general, I always subscribed to the concept of a poor quality cable introducing errors so was prepared to upgrade the standard Virgin cable. The fact is it has been very reliable, I simply have not seen any need to upgrade.

Re: The HDMI cable that comes with V+, is this sufficient?
 

There is also mechanical robustness of the more expensive cables to consider which could be an advantage. What I mean is that if you get a very cheap cable then the quality of joints & the connectors could be poor. If you pay more than say £5 then you will probably get a cable that will last a lot longer and also fit into sockets without falling out or making bad connections. Something like this should be all you need as long as you are not going for long cables.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0019JPMJK