Laptop as a server.
 

Hi,

I was thinking of getting a laptop to run as a web server. I was thinking of either getting a Dell D410 on ebay for around £160 second hand or maybe one of the new netbooks like HP 8.9" Mini Note 2133 which I've seen for £190.

I think it would have loads of benefits such as

1. Less heat /noise as laptops are known to run quieter than a normal PC.
2. Energy suffienct
3. If the power dies there would at least be the battery to run off.
4. I could connect wirelessly anywhere in my house as long as it had a power point for the power adaptor.

Any thoughts or views?

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

IMO laptops arn't designed to be left on 24/7, if you want a server they build a small one which has either small high quality fans or a fanless setup, if they still exist?

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

I need something small and quiet but be up for the job of serving some php pages. Laptops seem to fit the bill quiet nicely

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

You can easily buy an old machine, such as an AMD Althon (or now the LE processors) or a Pentium 4 machine.

If you use the stock fan that comes with the processor, they are generally really quiet. Things only getting louder when you start adding more things and fans.

I have an AMD LE1600 2.2GHz single core machine...the only things it has inside the case are motherboard, processor, PSU, hard drive and dvd drive. I don't need things like graphics/sound cards, multiple drives, or anything like that. Cooling isn't a problem, as it runs at around 30 ish degrees on the processor fan. (+1 12cm rear silent fan) I can barely hear it. It can easily handle php demands.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

buy an old dell optiplex GX270 or something. you'll never know it was on it's so quiet!

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Depends on the GX270. Latter ones were quieter than the early ones as the early ones do seem to have some fan hum continously, whereas the latter ones seem to be more temperature controlled. The GX280 are quiet, unless under load.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Acer Aspire One Netbook - £150 from Asda if you can find one in stock.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

I got these at work and I would not say they are compact.

---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:20 ----------

Where did you see that? I looked on their website and could not see it for that price. Would this be alright?

Scrape that I need something with a bit more than 8gig hd

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Don't forget about the faulty motherboards in the 260, 270 & 280 though.

I think they are referring to the sff model not the desktop one. The sffs have about the same footprint as an average laptop but they are the height of about 2 - 3 laptops.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

I use an old P3-800 with half a gig of memory as a small linux webserver...does the job...

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

If they are still running now, they will probably not have that issue. We've got around 15 of the GX270/280 here all at least 4 years old and only one failed, and that was virtually after delivery sorted under warranty so don't know if it was HD and / or motherboard.

---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

If you are hoping to serve up some php pages, presumably that also means you are wanting a mySQL type database running? If so, whilst you may not need the server to have a potent CPU, especially for a home connection where the broadband will limit the number of users, you do want it to have a reasonable smattering of RAM.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

I've got a 20MB connection and I'm hoping to move my existing website over to a dedicated server as my existing pc is runnning apache2 , php5, mysql, phpmysql and loads of other apps. I'm also hoping to leave it on as my pc is extremely loud and annoying. I was hoping that a laptop could cover all my basis. I was also thinking of using Ubuntu instead of windows specially for security.


My website has loads of family Pictures and videos so my users will be limited to maybe 10 users at any given time.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

They are instore. They have 120gb hdd's although some are saying that they are advertised as 120gb but coming with 160gb. 1.6ghz atom and 512mb ram which can be upgraded to 1.5gb. And Limpus Linux.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

A Dell gx240sff or a hp d510USDT will only set you back about £40 at most second hand on ebay. I think the d510usdt or d51usdt would be the best as it is the slimmest of the two and I would argue quieter. Both run pretty much silent though and both are considerably cheaper than a laptop even if you add a small tft.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

would it be easy to install winxp or change to ubuntu? Now doing a quick good I see there are 8gig SSD HDD and 120gig. I was going to pop into my local ASDA this Saturday and see if they have any. I might even try my tescos.


What speed can you measure the atom processor against using PC cpus? Like P4 3.0ghz?


Should I be trusting someone with a nick of " DEATH TRAP"???? HEHEHE

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Laptops as servers = it WILL die.

I've seen it done countless times, and after a while something on the motherboard dies, and it's dead, good and proper.

Your best bet (IMHO) is to get a Mini-ITX system. You can get one of the older VIA chipsets, which can be passively cooled. Add to that a quiet HD (Seagate 7200.10s are VERY quiet), some RAM, and shove it in one of the little cases (they tend to have 'brick' PSUs, i.e. passive cooling) and you're laughing. Whack Linux or Windows on, and you have a nice little box, and they will run 24/7 quite happily. AND, they don't pull a lot of power. I've just built a little machine with this board in this case, and it pulls around 50 watts - and that's with three HDs in it. Admittedly, the fan on that board is horribly noisy, so I've replaced it with a different fan, and put a resistor on it to slow it down by about half. It's now pretty quiet. You could easily make something silent, or as near as.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

That's be the blown capacitors in the voltage regulator section of the motherboard. We still have the odd one of two go with blown caps. They're all due to be replaced this year with 755's anyway.

I've got a SFF GX270 running here now for my weather satellite receiver, can never tell if it's switched on or not.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Do not spend your money on a netbook for a web server. They just are not intended to be used in such a way.

Get a cheap and cheerful desktop and stick it in a corner somewhere out of the way.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Avoid GX270s and GX280s, you never know which have been fixed. The 270's have the capacitors that go and the 280's have the faulty board/processor and fan. You can pick up a GX520 cheap enough now, that would be ideal.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Any thoughts on Shuttles are they really quiet? I have an xbox and I want something that does not sound like its going to take off in my living room and it will be running 24/7 and it needs to be small.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

It depends on the model, some have 1 big fan that draws all the air through the CPU cooler and these tend to have big 120mm fans which are quite quiet, but then there's others with a standard CPU fan and a fan on the back which are obviously smaller and can be a bit whiney, are you intending to run this server headless or will it have a monitor/mouse/keyboard?

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

No, I was hoping to just remote to it from my main pc but if need be if it is near my tv I can plug into into my 37inch and use my my pc usb mouse+keyboard.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

No that's fair enough easily doable, what i was getting at is that assuming there's adequate ventilation, you could hide it in a cupboard anyway which would minimise noise

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Looking at spending about £200. How easy is it to remote from windows to ubuntu on the same network? Acutally now that you say that I surpose I could get a normal pc put WIFI card in it and place it in another room.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

People who are saying "You can't run a laptop 24/7 its not designed for it" or "laptop as a server, it will die", have you ever actually tried it? Of course laptops aren't designed for it, but then no PC is either, but my point is if a laptop was going to overheat its not going to suddenly do it when its been on for 24 hours, its going to do it after being on just 10 or 20 minutes, if that. Think about what you're saying before you say it!

I have a friend who is running an old pentium II laptop (600Mhz) and has for over 2 1/2 years now and the worst he's had is a hard drive failure.

I run my laptop for 16 hours every day then its put into standby, and its often left on my bed with poor air circulation. Its never overheated yet.

When I visit my friend in Liverpool I leave my laptop on 24/7 at his house. Again often left on a bed or something with poor air circulation. No overheating yet.

If I'm downloading I leave my laptop on 24/7 at home, sometimes for days.

Laptops as a server are perfectly fine if you give them plenty of air circulation. I'd much rather use a laptop as a server because of the reduced power consumption, but unfortunately I need more than a few hundred GB of space (more like 3.8TB...).

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Thanks Abyss, I was starting to doubt myself. Any thoughts on using a netbook as a server?

I'm looking at spending no more than £200. I'm trying to get my head around it before splashing out on something that I might regret. I would like a laptop because if I do need to use it remotely it should not be a problem. Plus I dont need to worry about unpluggin or plugign in keyboard and mice .

SO things I've thought about

1. Should I get a 2nd Laptop on Ebay or should a get a new netbook?
2. Maybe get a shuttle because it is small.

I'm seriously confused and just need some help.


Thanks again to all the post so far.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Netbooks really aren't designed for long term use, since they're mainly for web use, but I have a friend who leaves his on 24/7 for msn and such and he's done this since around October last year with no issues. The only drawback is the small hard disk size.

A shuttle would be a nice compromise so you can add hard disks, but then you could with USB too, but they do add a lot of power consumption. I actually replaced my externals with internals and reduced power consumption by about 20%.

I'd say go for a regular laptop and a large hard disk. Thats a compromise between the shuttle and the netbook. If you need more disk space, you can add external disks if you need to and the laptop would take up less space and reduce clutter too.

One thing I will say though is don't use wireless if its intended as a server. I don't find it reliable enough so you're better off using it on a cable. After all its a server and doesn't need to be wireless anyway.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Abyss I've seen the Acer Aspire ONe with 120gig and another HP one at dixons that had 120gig for £189. I would never get one that has like 16gig or 8gig hdd.

All thats going on my server is family pix and photos. The only thing I can think of where the netbook might be a problem is its ATOM processor. Not sure how this competes with other pc/laptops cpu.

If the shutlle/laptop/netbook is small enough and quiet enough I can sit it right next to my router and just use the wired connection. I know this would be ideal.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

If you are serious about a laptop as a server, and it's clear you don't want to hear anyone who says "don't", then before you buy do check out the laptop design. Is the case efficient for cooling? See it running under load in the shop first.

I've had cheap laptops before now where the case was extremely warm especially where your hands would rest. I really wouldn't want that running 24/7. On the other hand the Dell Inspiron I have now, which cost over £700 a few years ago, seems much more robust and at times has successfully stress tested by running distributed computing stuff which pushed the CPU to 100% use for a few days.

Personally I wouldn't buy a budget laptop for this task. I'd be much happier with a budget desktop.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

The Atom CPU is quite nippy for what it is, and for a server its more than adequate. I ran a web server on a 166MHz Pentium I once!!! Ran a little slow but it was usable :)

The bigger the HD you can get the better obviously, since a server is supposed to have more storage than normal.

Also remember to backup those photos. Don't rely on a single hard disk to keep them forever. I did that once and I almost regret it. Thankfully it came back to life long enough to get the valuable photos off.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

I've been using a Dell Latitude X300 for work which has been upgraded but I was really impressed how silent it was. I left it on 24/7 and had no problems

I was originally looking at getton x300 or a dell latitude d410 on ebay and then I thought if I'm going to pay that much for a 2nd would it not be better to buy a new netbook to do the same thing. Plus I would get a guarentee/warranty.

ROB - Would I not be able to take it back to the store if it did get hot or break. I think I'll go this weekend and see what these netbooks/laptops look like and if they would be able to cope.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Nope.

But I know of two cases where they did. And they died.

1. A laptop was being used by a fairly major OEM (who since went bust - says a lot) as their web server. The reasoning being it had a battery - that's like a UPS, right! Anyway, it died, and took their website down. Duhh.

2. At work, we have a bunch of plasma screens in reception showing all sorts of random stuff. Somebody decided to run one on a laptop sat on a shelf. It overheated horribly, and fried the motherboard. Binned the whole thing as I recall.

So those are two cases I can name, and I'm aware of other cases.

Laptops are not designed to run 24/7. They get far too hot. Besides, running them on the mains all the time isn't clever, as it kills the battery. Some will run without the battery, but that doesn't solve the heat problem you'll get anyway.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

1. Thats a general failure, it happens and can be repaired.

2. I bet that shelf didn't have great air circulation. If you're that worried about it you can buy a USB powered fan pad to put the laptop on which will cool it sufficiently enough. They're fairly cheap as well.

You make a good point about the battery. You should run it down once a week to at least 40% to keep it in tip top shape, or remove it completely (but then you have no UPS capability).

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

The theory is sound. However, in practice it's a terrible idea. Laptops don't make a noise when switching to batter. In my experience, UPS's make an awful racket if the power dies (the alarm on ours at work is extremely, even painfully, loud). No way on earth a passing person wouldn't notice a problem. UPSs can also signal the server if the power dies, so it can contact relevant personell and shut itself down safely. OK, a laptop can do that with custom software, but a UPS can also power the hardware required to send a message (such as network hardware or modem). Admittedly, A Laptop may have a modem built in.

I find it staggering that companies are willing to spend thousands fitting flash plasmas and lcds to their reception areas, but are not happy to spend an extra £200 or £300 on a small PC to run it. OK, so it's worth remembering that "shuttle" style micro PCs are not really designed to run 24/7 either, but there is no reason a mini PC couldn't.

Going back to the OP's point, I'd recommend a mini PC, or if expenses run to it, a Mac Mini. Mac Minis run exceptionally cool, even under a heavy load, and are quiet even at full load.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Just thought I would challenge your closing comment there. Poorly designed or even old laptops may not be designed for it but that doesn't hold true right across the range. My current laptop, Dell studio 1735 is more than up to the task it barely gets warm gaming. The laptop before that was an inspiron 1525 and though that one did get considerably warmer gaming it stayed nice and cool for every other use as long as it wasn't taxing the cpu 100% 24/7.

To the OP, I really wouldn't go for a shuttle or a netbook as a server. I would really go for something like the Dell GX240 sff or the D510 usdt I recommended earlier, they are much better suited to the task you have in mind, Or like someone else mentioned even a mini-itx would do it. And any of them could be bought for a fraction of the cost of a netbook or a shuttle.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

I think the major win point with the Mini-ITX systems is that they are designed, and indeed, can be run, totally passively cooled. I.e. silent. It's easy to get pretty silent drives now (even 2.5" drives - you can get drives designed to run 24/7 now - HP's servers come with them now) so you can have something pretty powerful, small, and quiet.

You can make a PC mostly passively cooled - my media centre has a huge chunk of copper in it with no fans, and just a single case fan. That runs perfectly fine. I even fashioned a cowling of a sort out of some plastic to drag air right through the CPU heatsink so it was then dumped right out the side. That method can get costly as these big passive heatsinks can be very pricey. Underclocking the CPU helps.

I'd recommend QuietPC for such things. Incidentally, Noctua fans are THE quietest fans I've ever used, and come with a world of fittings and speed adaptors. I've got a 12Cm fan in my PC which is effectively silent!

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

I use a Dell Inspiron laptop (dual core 2GHz with 4GB RAM and 140GB hard disk) running Win2003 server SP2. Hosting the windows domain, DNS, DHCP, with 5 virtual servers on the same laptop giving me a backup DC (+RRAS), IIS7, MS Exchange 2007 SP1, Exchange 2007 SP1 Edge server (non-domain) and a MS SQL 2005 server (+WSUS). No laptop battery installed, with a 20minute UPS installed.

This hosts my personal websites and my family Exchange accounts, accessible by our iPhones.

I originally had this over 2 computers, but thought I'd experiment by squeezing it onto the one laptop.

Main reason to swap to laptop was engery efficiency - my 3.2Ghz PentiumD computer runs at around 150Watts, costing about 55pence per 24hours of continual running, with optmisations (such as Windows power options and not running intensive services such as Windows search, nightly anti-virus scanning and Diskeeper).
My laptop runs the same servers, but only using about 40Watts of power, which is about 10pence a day.

Been running quite a while like this with no problems.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Wouldn't you get a better value for money with a desktop over a laptop.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Value for money? on what basis/application?

Laptops can come with equal hardware grunt, CPU etc.. but over a 3year life you'd see a return on that investment through cost savings, such as electricity.

It really depends on what your application is, using a laptop at the heart of a server infrastructure is humours :) but it can work and it does for me for my personal projects...but def not within a corporate arena - but that application is v. different. Namely budgets and users.

It isn't this what we love about IT - how a single problem has many solutions? ;)

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Plus corporate environments generally have dedicated areas for servers, so they can sit there with their screaming banshee fans.

Servers are noisy! Bloody noisy.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

I use a GX240 for the home server stuff paid £20 delivered on ebay... although i don't run my home machine 24/7 and have it set to go into Standby

If it's not already been suggested perhaps you could try linitx.com they sell fanless mini-itx boards and the such like.

Some of the embedded platforms aren't bad however it depends on your needs they may not have the grunt to run demanding webapps.

Sorry i'm fairly tired so probably missed half the thread.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Just an update I went to my local ASDA and I saw an empty netbook box I asked the kind lady at the counter and she said they had two left. The first one she bought out looked like it was returned item so she fetched the other one. So I paid £150 and when I got home and booted it up I was pleased to see that it was the 160gig version that DeathTrap mentioned I checked the box and it said 120gig but the systems reporting 160gig so no complaints. try to find the terminal now.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Why on earth have you bothered to spend £150 on a home server to feed a few photos and php content when you could have done all of that from any cheap hosting company for a fraction of the cost and danger.

£150 you could have 10 years worth of proper server than a bloody craptop.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

If all he bought the laptop for was to host the server, then i agree with flamingeck. Hosting is cheap, go that route to host pics, and simple apps.

However if you want more demanding services then a home server environment is the way to go!.... many 100'GB data store, Exchange for email, MS SQL database, etc...

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

Plus there is the satisfaction of seeing it all work once you set it up yourself, and you have the freedom to design the site how you want, using whatever scripts you want rather than the ones the hosting company see fit to provide.

Re: Laptop as a server.
 

From some of the opinions I would have thought that the OP was setting up a commercial website.

I absolutely don't agree with adding resistors, fashioning cowls and such, blimey if the companies which makes these devices can't get it right I'm pretty sure artificially slowing a fan is not a great idea! Let alone designing your own cooling system.

If you want to use a notebook as a web server go for it! No they arn't designed for it but a good one (not yet convinced by netbooks however) IS designed to deal with fluctuating and high temps. IS designed for long hours e.g. both HP snd Dell have both released near or actual 24hr battery life laptops in recognition of the fact.

The questions you need to ask is am I server or client side processing? What resources are required to support this? Web servers tend to be low in cpu and mem requirements unless used in a large business with a high yeld. They are very light servers, if you don't believe read the spec diffs between Windows Standard Server and Web Server.

Giving business examples doesn't seem to fit with this case?