VM's Indian callcentre
 

Over the last few weeks I've had an issue with the internet connection at my parents' house, and posted about it here and whenever I've called up about it I've always got through to India when calling tech support.

Since that problem started I've called them a total 9 times and spoken to 9 different agents and been given 9 different 'solutions', none of which have worked.

I called them again last night as the problem was getting worse, seems like the problem is with the modem and not the router, so I tried an old silver ambit modem we used to have on the 2mb service but the drops kept happening. The agent last night decided to send me out a new modem. Erm hello? The connection drops with the normal modem and also the old silver one, does that not suggest it's not the modem at fault? But he would have none of it - a modem was to be sent out.

I wasn't convinced but was determined to speak to someone in the UK about this. I tried calling them this morning (see here about my post about it) but gave up.

I then had an offer of help from one of the VM guys who posts on here (I won't give his posting name unless he is happy to do so himself) and i sent him an email explaining all the hassle I've had.

Within 10 minutes he'd sent me an email back saying he's identified the fault which was causing the drops (my RX Power is ranging and exceeding its tolerances) and an engineer has been booked. He also made it clear that the guys in India have access to the same tools he used to diagnosed that fault.

My issue is not about the fault - we've got to the bottom of it and with luck the engineer will sort it when he arrives.

What annoys me is I've spoken to 9 different indian agents and not one could identify the problem, instead giving me 9 different 'fixes'.

I get 1 email from a UK agent and we get to the bottom of it almost straight away.

that sort of thing sums up the problem with Indian callcentres.

Virgin Media - 'bollards' (not the word I actually meant to use) to your "We're listening to you" campaign. Sort your Indian tech support out. If any of the 9 agents had looked over my notes they'd have seen the history of my problem and could have fixed it weeks ago. had they bothered to run the same diagnostic tool as the guy on here did, we'd have solved it weeks ago.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

A big :tu: for whichever of our resident 'staffers' it was that helped you on the road to getting this resolved, job well done.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Which is unfortunately the problem with people reading off 'crib sheets' they just wont listen to you, no matter what your technical understanding is. Anyway :tu: to the person who sorted it.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I've just asked him if I can publically acknowledge him in this thread.

I respect the privacy of any VM staffer who assists on here and if he permits me to post his CF name I'll have no hesitation in doing so.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I like a happy ending to a story

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I'm glad you got it sorted, and I'm glad you knew those who were able to sort it out for you. Thousands don't have that honor, and have to deal only with the Indians, and never getting things fixed, and thus end up paying for broken services.

What puzzles me, is the Indians Ive met over IRC, are all technically capable, and able, being some of the smartest people I know. Yet put them in a call center... "Please be rebooting modem now sir, please." is all they can apparently say.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

To be fair I didn't go seeking anyone's help. It was offered to me via PM on this site, as happens to lots of users here.

---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

As it stands the user in question has requested anonymity which I'm happy to comply with.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Nice one to the Virgin staff member and best not to publicise your efforts as you never know who reads this forum.;) plus it stops PMs for help beyond your remit.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

QFT

I've dealt with both Zen and I found that they were technically very good. They seemed to be ACTUAL techies, and they really did know their stuff. I had random conversations about the issues and had real answers, rather than the usual 'I'll have to find out'. Be's weren't quite as good, as although they seemed to know their stuff, they made you do everything per the book. Some of them were quite technical, but obviously they had targets or something because they'd get you off the phone as quickly as possible, which wasn't great.

Trouble is, getting actual techies onto support lines isn't all that hard, but getting them to STAY there is! I know at work our techies loath doing support desk, as it is such mind-numblingly boring stuff to do, sorting the same issues over and over. A mate of mine worked on the support line of a PC vendor, and had similar issues. You've got to keep your techies motivated; Sophos's techies seem to be given time to play with things, as they've often mumbled things about seeing similar issues 'on the test network' or 'when I installed it', which suggests they get hands-on with the stuff they support.

Virgin's support staff really do need to be:

1. UK-based
2. "Eating the dog-food" - using a VM connection themselves, or at least have access to one to play with it, and know what it actually does and the little foibles and niggles you just can't find out from a crib sheet.
3. Real techies

Nothing against the Indian call centres per se - I've dealt with some and they were stellar, but I thought it rather telling that having once phoned Barclaycard, I got to an Indian guy in account enquiries who had to put me onto the anti-fraud guys who were based... in the UK.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Reminds me of that advert for BT's Business Broadband Service, they offer tech support in UK-only callcentres :erm:

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

You will find that the are quite a few who fit the above criteria in all 3 UK call centres and some of them even post on here as if doing this in work was'nt enough.:D

I personally am a customer first and have all 3 services that Virgin supply and even a Virgin mobile phone.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Glad the problem is getting sorted out. Whenever I called the "Indian" call ctr, they insist on taking you through the menu, &, despite my request asking them if they can deal with a specific problem, they insist they can sort it, & continue with the spiel. Only when I describe the fault do they say "Sorry" we cannot.........., by then its too late, I`m fuming.

Nowadays, whenever I call, the first thing I say is, "are you in India", if the answers yes, I reply, goodbye.

Perhaps for modem requests, they are OK, but in my experience, they are less than useless.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

They could do themselves a world of good by actually talking like we do. Like when you go through the security questions etc they always something like "Thank you for confirming this information".

Nobody in UK callcentres says "Thank you for confirming this information". They say things like "thanks for that". The Indians just try too hard to be natural and it stands out massively. That puts me off immediately.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

are you sure the problem the problem was with the RX power? I am sure you must have a virus on your pc :D

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Sad it got to the point were you had to call any center 9 times with the same fault.
I'd like to think continued training is taking place to further the knowledge of agents who are not quite up to speed.

Its nice to see you finally got support before you:
A) canceled your services.
Or
B) Tore out your hair.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Hmmm, there's something you ought to know about me :D

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I think your routers at fault Sir!! :D

---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

I actually got an email link from VM to one of their surveys and took the time to fill it out, all was glowing and the only negative comment i left was regarding Indian call centres, they really let VM down. :(

Perhaps its the training they get?

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Steady on Russ, that's a little bit unfair, after all, the tech is only being polite. You say "the Indians try too hard to be natural"; it'd be a lot harder for us if they gave advice in Urdu. They're also dealing with issues in real time, often with irate callers, which makes the task harder.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I disagree I'm being unfair at all. If I'm paying for a service from someone over the phone I need to feel like I'm connecting with them on some level. I need to feel some kind of rapport otherwise I've got no confidence in their ability to understand my issue. If their choice of wording, or the training they've been given makes it all feel forced and fake then I'm not going to have any confidence in them at all, regardless of country of origin.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

That's a tough call I reckon. I can understand your expectation for technical ability but I can also see how the more subtle and intuitive CS skills might get lost in translation so to speak.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

It seems to me that more and more UK companies are bringing back their CS call centres to the UK, in fact companies like Saga are now using "UK call centers" as a selling point in their advertising.
What I'm sure looked good on paper to some bean counter looking at saving a few quid, has on the whole been a failure, VM employee's I have spoken to have told me that complaints about the Indian call center are one of the biggest beefs customers have.
In fact VM are well aware how unpopular these call centers are, so much so that they launched a campaign over Christmas showing employee's in India being retrained, along with the comment that overseas call centers needn't be second rate, unfortunately in my opinion they invariably are.
Most VM customers rarely have to call CS but on occasion when they do its generally with a problem, now even the most tolerant customer starts to despair when for the 20th time you have to repeat, "I'm sorry can you say that again please", especially when its obvious that the person is reading from a pre-scripted list of responses, the fact he/she has been doing this all day and every day becomes apparent when the response becomes faster and faster, ending in the classic, "can you please repeat that please", this nightmare merry-go-round can become soul destroying.
As Russ says the sheer elation at getting someone in the UK who can diagnose and generally fix your problem is palpable, at this point I'd like to add that on a number of occasions on getting through to the UK call center I've received excellent service from British Indians, its not a case about being "anti-Indian" its simply expecting to understand and be understood by the person your talking too, not to much to ask is it.?
Come on VM, make your customers happy and bring back CS to the UK.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

...and you can bet your bottom dollar that all the vitriol about the present customer services will come with it! You really think VM's customers will be happy when they are dealing with UK CS? ;)

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Their wording is just so wrong. One of the indians I spoke to kept calling me 'Mr Russ' which annoyed me no end. When I corrected him he replied ''I apologise for the inconvenience''. I know he was just being polite but did he really think his addressing me wrongly was somehow 'inconveniencing' me? They learn how to speak our language but not *how to speak like us*. Until that is corrected I'll always do whatever possible to avoid speaking to their Indian callcentre.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

You're a hard man Mr Russ; I think that's rather quaint :) The Queen's English is rarely heard in the UK never mind anywhere else! Are we to take the same attitude to regional accents here? :)

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I have no idea what you're trying to suggest but my point is clear. For me to have confidence in someone to understand my issue and help resolve my problem I need to have a level of rapport with them. And when they use wording that nobody in the UK uses (other than teachers of English to other nationalities) my confidence in them goes through the floor.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Ok. In the interests of maintaining a rapport with you (and my board membership :D) I'll leave it at that.

Glad your tech probs are all sorted.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Russ is making a valid point there. When you phone for assistance, the least you expect is to be able to communicate with someone who understands, not a robotic type who you have difficulty understanding.

When we make these calls its because we have already tried to put things right, & invariably know what we want. A UK call ctr will cut the patter short & get on with the problem, whereas the Indian ctrs tend to "wind you up" with their robotic type rhetoric.

Virgin cable is for the UK market, so we have a right to expect a certain standard when we need assistance. The Indian call ctrs simply don't measure up.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I called back in mid january to say about a problem with my internet (It kept cutting out). I got through first time to an indian call centre, they said the system was down at their end so they couldnt investigate. I called the next day (Saturday), and got a british guy who was very helpful, within 5 minutes he'd checked on the system and said the problem was with my STB and booked an engineer for the following monday.

I phoned up VM to find out where the said engineer was, I got through to an indian call centre again, and the woman said she'd canceled the guy as there was an area fault. No notice to us however that it was an area fault. That was mainly the content of the calls for the next few days.

On the thursday, I phoned up again, and got another indian women, it was only then she recommended a cable modem might fix it. So an another guy was booked and he came the next day and it was all sorted within 20 or so minutes.

He said area faults would usually be fixed within 12 hours at most. Took 6 or so days to get an answer from the call centres, it was "an area fault" for most of the time.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I understand what Mr. Russ is saying (ducks for cover).

We are English people, who speak English, who phone for assistance off an English (well, legally an American) company, to whom we are paying substantial amounts of English currency to, to obtain services in England.

Is it really acceptable that in order to query a problem, that we have to speak to people who can't speak our language very well? I don't think so. I have no issue that they are Indian, I just wish they:
A) Would stop sounding like they were chewing a brick.
B) Speak normal English.
C) Actually fix the damn problems, instead of "fobbing us off" in order to close the call quickly.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Some of us are Welsh and wish to obtain services in Wales.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Judging by the avatars, I'd say some of us are Scottish too.

As for the Indian call centres, I'll just say what I always say, which is that it's because no matter what ISPs or insurance companies or roadside assistance firms do in terms of providing services, the reason most folk give for switching is price and when folk call to cancel [whether or not they've gone through any other support or complaint process] they can, more often than not, be retained by reducing the... price. So when companies keep seeing that people want things to cost less, and often care about it more than anything else, and this is something that they can measure, they'll do everything they can to keep costs down so their profits don't get too squeezed. This means outsourcing, cutbacks, off-shoring, delayed maintenance, service adjustments.

My point is this: don't vote with your wallets. That just ensures it's the only language they understand. Don't make this about nationality. That way lies petty jingoism, almost guaranteed offence. Ask for help you can use, and if you don't get it, ask again. Write letters. Change the venue, change the debate. There's a definition of insanity that involves doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

You raise legit points but what makes it difficult is I only call tech support when something goes wrong and in my experience that doesn't happen very often. I'm otherwise very pleased with the service. The download speeds are very close to the advertised rate, the pings are fine and the price doesn't compare to VM's competitors. We could make a stand against VM having Indian tech support but that would mean paying more for slower speeds.

I would be very reluctant to chose that course of action.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Sophos have a completely separate network on their third floor for testing and such, it really is a very nice building. I have never spoken to anyone who isn't pleasant and motivated to do their best there. Saying that, they have a first line support which just put you through to the right support team, which sort out my issues 90% of the time, i very rarely have to go to their top support team.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Russ I don't think your problem is to do with "Indian" call centres but more with the fact that you got through to a call centre who A) weren't able to help you and B) couldn't communicate with you clearly.

I've dealt with East European call centres and Indian ones before. If they employ competent people who know what they are doing and can speak clearly then it isn't a problem at all, with one company I only knew it was a foreign call centre because of the number I had to call. The guy I spoke to knew what he was talking about, could speak clear English and during a few reboots we were able to just have a general chat.

It seems the VM Indian call centre and a lot of the other ones are staffed by people who just aren't experienced at working in a call centre, have no background IT training and so just work from a script which leads to a bad experience all round, add in the fact the line is very bad so it makes it hard to understand and a very thick accent that isn't easy to understand either and this is where the problems start to come in

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

The best thing to do is put on your best "Rab C. Nesbit" accent to confuse them, until eventually when they can't even get your account number keep repeating "Can ye put somebody who speaks English pal?".

VM have a similar problem to a lot of large utility companies. They have millions of customers, and the vast majority are clueless and barely know how to operate their PCs. That means they get a lot of really basic issues every day, which can be solved by simple things like rebooting or running a virus scan. They can't afford to employ enough knowledgeable staff to answer all these calls, so they employ Indians whose cluelessness is only matched by that of the customers.

In theory, if they can't help you, you should be put though to someone in the UK who actually knows something, but the problem is they are pressured to escalate as few calls as possible. They are also trained to ignore you and insist on going through the same pointless routine every time you call, no matter how many times you tell them that the last bloke said the same thing and it didn't work etc. etc.

So, on the one hand I wish VM would do better, but on the other I can see their dilemma. If it's any consolation, VM are not the worst, that accolade goes to PC World. Just today a customer brought their PC in to ask if we could fix it because it would not boot. All it needed was a virus scan and Windows repair. She had just come from PC World where The Tech Guys told her the machine was dead and she should buy a new laptop.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

PCWorld are legendary for the quality of their advice. The only stories I know that beat them are the ones about Best Buy in the States.

Again, it's about cost and motivation. The easiest way to motivate staff is to treat them well and pay them decently. Sadly, those both cost money. So you'll get unmotivated, even desperate staff, and, well, it all goes downhill from there. While VM have call centres with a variety of outsource partners in deprived areas like Wales, Liverpool, and Bonne Ecosse, at least their staff tend not to be semiliterate goons on JobSeekers crammed into polo-shirts and stuck behind a temporary wall in a commercial estate off the ring-road.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Could we please remember to be as polite as we can about the staff who work in call centres and visit this forum..also let us try to avoid making sweeping statements about people living in certain areas.

Not everyone living in places likes Wales or Liverpool would regard themselves as being deprived. ;)

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Well said (except this thread's been full of sweeping statements since the OP). Right, so far the Scots, Welsh, Indians and Liverpudlians have been insulted; who's next? :sleep:

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

When we moved house recently we had a delay in getting the internet enabled (were stuck in that sandbox where it'll only send you to the account setup process among other issues). Rang tech support and got through to India who proceeded to go through their entire script before coming to the conclusion that "your TCP IPs are wrong please reinstall Windows" (everytime I've got through to India it's concluded with them blaming Microsoft and telling me to reformat my PC). At this point I gave up, agreed and hung up realizing I was going to get naff all sense from this clown. Rang back and got through the most beautiful sound to hear on the end of the phone - a UK based call centre and a very nice Welsh guy listened to what was actually wrong and sorted the issue within about 2 minutes... after laughing when he heard my relief that thank God it wasn't another Indian agent.

The great India call centre experiment didn't work. I worked for a while at an energy company that had realized this and pulled their operations back to the UK - and the number of messed up accounts we had to fix that had been dealt with by the Indian operation, who appeared to have just antagonized customers who had rung up with really straightforward queries and ended up with collossal escalated calls - was ridiculous.

If I get Virgin India tech support - I just hang up and redial now, it's not worth the waste of my time, the agent's time and my blood pressure to try to get some sense from it because they always always always just tell me to reinstall windows or something completely ridiculous.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I think sherer summed up my feelings. I don't mind Indian Call-centers as long as they are competent and I feel I can understand them. From my own experience, the Dell Indian call centre staff I've spoken to have been pretty good, with good English skills.

Virgin Indian call centre staff, on the other hand, I've got frustrated with in the past because their English hasn't been very good, which is understandable (as it's not their native language), but could be rectified by better training or better selection of staff.

Thankfully I've now sidestepped the problem by using the Newsgroup instead of the phone for support. I think it's telling that Virgin doesn't use Indian call centre staff to sell you your packages, preferring English call staff for this activity.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

The thing is there's no way to be politcally correct about this - the fact is I've had awful support when I've spoken to the frontline staff in India. ( different people offered 9 different solutions to my connection problem and none of them worked. 1 UK worker finds the problem within 10 minutes with the same tools India use.

"Quaint" indeed.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

We do not follow a script and actually use said tools to diagnose the issue.

The are good agents in the off shore call centres but they are overshadowed by the poor reputation that the others give them, which causes customers to hang up when they answer the phone.

The thing is hanging up does not work it just makes their call stats look good from quick short calls.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I have had a lot of experience with Dell India, and to be fair they are quite good for consumer stuff. Their corporate stuff is a joke though - £100+VAT per hour for some idiot reading a script to try and fix your business critical Exchange server.

I think what really annoys people is that the person on the other end is just reading from a script, and cannot deviate from it no matter what you tell them. It's easy to get into a situation where the script can't fix whatever problem you have, meaning the call centre can't fix the problem you have but equally can't pass you on to anyone with more education and knowledge than the ability to read.

Actually, I take that back. Sometimes when you call Microsoft India, they can't even read the numbers on screen out properly.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

A thought from those that are hard of hearing.

Back Story

Your TV/Internet is not working, you are starting as an unhappy customer.

The Phone Menu

A lot of information, sometimes confusing,even if you hear clearly.
Redial. Listen again.
Become annoyed with your failings and everbody elses.
Redail and press a number.

The Wait
Say hello to the person saying 'Thank you for waiting', for 23 minutes.

You have become increasingly uncomfortable as you are unclear of who is talking to you or it's just a recording.

The Answer

Someone called 'Patrick' answers. He has a light voice and to you a muffled diction. It difficult to understand the questions. The man is polite but has no empathy for your situation.

The Close

Patrick thanks you for choosing Virginmedia and goes. You have a not clue whats going on.

The Wait

Nothing happens, you are cross and upset with yourself and the entire world.
Phone your son, after a week and let him sort it.

Not everybody is lean, fit and twenty two.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Oh come on Mr Russ (:erm:) don't be so grumpy. I hope all the young people in India who work hard for much less than people are paid in the UK don't think we're all a bunch of miserable old men and women. The British and Indian people have always got on well together often because their patience counterbalances the way we are sometimes intrusively rude.

Don't let a pc get in the way of being pc ;)

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

You seem not to think this way but I feel totaly justified in being disatisfied with a section of VM's service over my recent experiences. 9 different people failed to spot the problem and the common denominator was they were in in the Indian callcentre. 1 UK agent spots the problem almost immediately.

You don't see anything wrong enough there for me to justify my post?

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

As I said this seems to be a problem with the whole call centre and the training they are given. They could have opened this up in somewhere else in the Uk and done the same thing. It seems clear the idea of the call centre is to just employ people with technical or PC knowledge and just give them a script to use to solve the problems. Anyone of us who work in this industry know that doesn't really work and leads to all sorts of problems.

If call call centre was staffed by people who had been on a proper training course and were knowledgable to start with before they got the job then I don't think it would have been a problem.

By just giving the call centre the ability to read from a script they will never solve all the problems and will lead to customers being angry and upset but that could happen if this same call centre was in the UK with the same processes

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

There seems to be 2 schools of thought here.

One that says we are paying for a service and not getting it because those delivering it are substandard and we should be disatsified with it.

The other seems to say ok the service seems to be bad but they apparently "work hard" and get paid less so although we aren't getting the level of service we expect, we should not complain regardless of the fact we're paying for it.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

So it seems to be ok to suffer from slow speeds and complain about the poor service but not ok to complain about poor technical support which is part of the service.

Guess which school of though I'm from.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I'm lucky so far I haven't ever got put through to an Indian call centre yet.
However I can understand why these people keep to a script as they will have little knowledge of the product little knowledge of computers and won't have any direct access to someone who does.
Virgin would cease to use these centres if we all had the nerve to ring up and cancel our broadband as the losses would out weigh the savings it's costs to hire script "monkeys". However the British nature is too put up with substandard service and not complain too much as me may offend. Hence Virgin can get away with it.
Ukonline have a call centre in Ireland and did briefly hire some script "monkeys". I had a rare failure from this ISP so rang up and got an Irish bloke who dropped the script straight away as I had done all the trouble shooting. He went away to check things out and said call back in hour if the problem persists. Gave me a reference number. Called back an hour later and got a script monkey. Jesus would he clung to the script like a limpet. The problem he had is that 2nd line support didn't want to talk to any customers and they were telling him to use the script despite a previous call being logged and I was beginning to rather annoyed been asked to do the same checks already done. In the end I said "Listen I need to talk to the 2nd line I know they don't want to take calls and I'm getting rather annoyed with you so you need to pass me through as you're the one getting the flak which isn't right." he passed me through. The problem being very odd didn't get resolved but at least I spoke to someone else who recognised there was a problem. In the end the solution was too leave the modem disconnected for 24 hours and bingo everything fixed itself. The modem carried on working years and I still got it as a spare.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I can only judge tech support by my own experience which I admit is limited because I'm getting a good enough service in the first place so I don't have to contact them that much. When I have, it's been fine. They speak to me politely and in my language (not their own) and I make allowance for that. I cut them some slack, but that's just me, I'm nice.

It is of course your prerogative to complain if your experience of any part of a service doesn't meet the standard you expect but keep in mind how many know-it-all's ring tech support - the people who ring up in a bad mood giving directions about what is wrong and how tech ought to do this and ought to do that. Of course there's a script. Tech have no idea what your real ability is and they don't know what you've tried (and in what order) so they have to take you through basic steps so that they know for real what point has been reached in resolving your problem.

Seems to be if they do this in a polite manner, it gets on some people's wick. Perhaps it would be better if it went like this:

You: Hi, my connection is playing up.
Tech: You dumb mofo stop messing with the settings.
You: But I haven't, I pay for a better service than this.
Tech: If you just stfu for a moment, I'll try to fix it for you.
You: I have never been spoken to so rudely in all my life.
Tech: Yeah? Well VM tech is in Norf London now so get used to it.
You: I think I'll move to adsl.
Tech: Good, it'll make my life easier.
You: Tech was much better when it was run from India.
Tech: Are you ever happy?
You: Perhaps I do get a bit over-excited about my internet connection.
Tech: Believe me sir, cable may not be perfect but it's better than the alternative.
You: I feel better now.
Tech: Have a good day sir.

;) Chwarae Teg Russ.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Not sure how your extreme example has anything to do with the fact that 9 indians failed to spot my problem yet 1 UK agent picked it up using exactly the same tools. How polite they are is totally irrelevant. If I want polite support I'll call my local Age Concern. If I want and expect my connection to be fixed I should be able to do so by calling Virgin's tech support. As it turned out it took an offer of help on this site for me to get it fixed.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

But you do expect a certain brand of politeness or to be less irritated in the way you are spoken to http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34739873-post13.html.

I accept that getting your connection fixed is (rightly) the priority; just seems to me tech are a soft target sometimes.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

The clue of good support is a good tech knowledge of the product you're supporting and only using a script too guide a none technical user through the fault checking.
I find it very useful when someone rings up and go I've done and that and this and I've still got a problem.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I don't know how Virgin tech support agents have their set-up but when 9 of them in one country can't spot the problem yet 1 in the UK can, with exactly the same tools, they leave themselves extremely wide open to be a soft target, and rightly so in my case. 9 is beyond a forgivable or understandable amount.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I'm not hugely bothered where the call centre is geographically as long as they are able to resolve problems effectively. However it does seem that the UK call centres are generally better at this. That said there have been occasions in my experience where the UK call centres haven't been able to resolve my issue either.

I have no problem with going "through the script" with a 1st level tech the first time I raise an issue as they need to be sure you've done all the obvious stuff and check your account is in order. The problem seems to lie with escalation (in both continents).

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I have no problems going through the script either, when I can understand what they are saying, provided thatwhen the script fails to fix the problem, they DON'T blame "winsock problem, reinstall windows. Thankyou bye bye.", they actually admit they can't fix it, and escalate it to someone who can.

So far, when I've spoken to India, the problem has been:
Winsock problem, reinstall windows. (Identical problem on a non-windows PC tho).
Spyware (on a linux machine)
Speedtests are inaccurate, bye bye. (I was reporting my modems config was still set at 2MB a week after I had upgraded to 10MB)

In each case, all those problems were resolved within minutes of reaching a UK based agent, or the newsgroup.

Put short, the Indian call centers only seem to be interested in closing the call asap, to keep their call rates up. They might be lovely people, but as technical support agents, in my experience, they suck.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

i thought was a funny read re. call centres

http://forums.hexus.net/networking-b...le-modems.html

never had anything like that, but had my fair share of problems with them.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Hi All,
I don't make any excuses or comments on how bad or how good the Indian Support is. The reason is I, like many others remember ntl support at it's best. Remember those day's Russ. If I had to call for any support I had to prepare myself for the call. It was usually the customers fault regardless of what the fault was. I lost my temper a few times I remember. I once had a Supervisor tell me I was thick and to get off the phone. No use complaining they didn't believe you anyway. Happy Days.
All this of course in due time led to the creation of this sites origanal formation. It's all been fun over the years. Of course we didn't think so at the time. So thanks to all those friends past and present who have helped customers like me and you.
Best Wishes to All.
George.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Like I said, I can only go by my own experience. But beyond that, will it really help for one of the moderators on the best cable forum in the UK to be so openly critical? The training provided to the techs is the training provided; I think these guys would be feeling pretty glum about the service they try to provide if they were to read this. Sherer has made this point very well a few times. I dunno, perhaps all us computer types are just inherently miserable.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

And why not? Am I to play down a company's failings just to be PC? Perhaps it will have the opposite effect, perhaps my comments will be noticed?

I have the right to pass comment on VM's service as much as anyone, my position on the team makes no difference. I post within the T&Cs, and my comments stand.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

The thing is Russ is quite correct to complain because quite often the UK call centres have to clean up the mess left by Off shore and mend fences with customers, plus it is now a question of who do we in the UK trust to fix our fault Off shore or UK based, maybe we should put that to a vote and run a poll.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I am sorry but I am with Russ on this one. When I ring a tech support number and tell them my internet is dead (once a year if that) there is nothing more annoying than them telling me they have run some tests, nothing is wrong and I must have a virus, and that is after speaking to only one person.

At the end of the day the issue isn't with indian people, it is to do with cheap staffing and poor training to cut down costs no matter whether they be in Indian, China, America or Scotland. I am sure we would all moan just as much if they offered such poor service if it was an english call center.

As for how they feel? Screw them, they should be more worried about how we feel. If they were good customer service people and took pride in their work they would want to make sure every customer was happy with the service they provide and the problem was resolved instead of telling them a load of crap to get them off the phone. I am normally more than happy to pile on the praise where it is due but the tech support guys are thing about VM that really get to me :mad:

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Much as I hate misusing the Newsgroup guys as '1st line' support better to use them and get issues resolved than to waste my time with the guys in India. Every time I've spoken with the tech support agents in India I've always ended up having a disagreement with them, from them saying that even though my STB was transmitting at 61dBmV it was all fine because it was connected (for the first time in a while) through to my most recent entertainment with them, a simple password change to fix my non-functional self-care and that took 3 calls...

They are abysmal and clearly not really trained in any technical way. They are trained in a bit of customer service and run through flowcharts, they have no idea what they are actually supporting nor how it works.

They are bluntly a liability, they waste customer's time, lower customer satisfaction levels within Virgin Media, and need to either be much better trained or support needs to be brought back onshore.

Someone needs to get through to VM in no uncertain terms that offshore support at its' cheapest does not work, this isn't just my opinion this is official and proven both by studies into customer satisfaction and value along with companies that have brought support back to the UK after finding it a false economy to outsource.

That they had the gall to charge for this at one time is absolutely astounding.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I remember that period. £1.85/minute for an unsupport call because I only had a mobile phone at the time. Ouch.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Having just read the whole thread, I can't understand why no one has pointed out the obvious.

It took 10 phone calls in total to rectify, had call ten actually been call one then the other nine calls would not have needed to be made. How exactly do nine extra phone calls (no matter where the operatives are based) actually translate into a cheaper service for VM or the customer?

I have had very similar experiences with the "off shore" call centres, whilst they may speak English, they do not understand the English language! I do not like having my time wasted by someone who likes the sound of their voice! They always feel the need to repeat themselves time and time again, telling you what they are going to do, how they are going to do it, what they are actually doing, what they have done and what they can do in the future!!!!

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Oh my word YES!!! It makes you wonder how much of each call is wasted with them repeating everything, telling you what they have done, will do, might do etc instead of just getting on with it as people in UK callcenters do.

At the very most they should ask us if we want to know what happened - chances are the caller won't want to out of desperation to get off the phone as well as the assumption that notes will be placed on the account explaining it all.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I forgot to add, what would be a very interesting study or read if the study has already been carried out is exactly what the stats are for a first time fix for UK call ctr, and a first time fix for off shore call ctr's. Also which location gets the most repeat calls etc? I am pretty sure I already know the answer!

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Wow, you guys must have tech support in 'family and friends' in your address book. Perhaps it's me. Perhaps I haven't had to call them much - well, no, I haven't but when I have it's been fine. Could be I'm just lucky.

I also think there's nothing wrong in keeping you informed of progress in resolving your issue. They seem damned if they speak and damned if they don't. Sheesh.

Noone is questioning anyone's right to comment and clearly my view is in the minority here. If people are so dissatisfied with the performance of the Indians, maybe it is time to give the cowboys a turn :D.

I wonder if then you'll be any happier.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

This is why they offer tech support free when you take their phone line. Any other phone provider you use to call Virgin Media's Tech Support costs a LOT of money! I spent about £10 on my mobile phone credit (Vodafone PAYG) trying to activate my modem with them, one final call early(ish) in the day to a UK call centre (thank the good Lord) and it was all sorted! They never refunded it either. The calls to the Indian call centres I made I struggled to understand them, I was straining to hear them, trying to translate what they were saying (they weren't saying it in Hindi, just very strong "Indian English").

This sort of problem wouldn't happen if we had call centres in the UK. Companies are only trying to make a quick fast buck by out-sourcing them, and it only hurts the consumer.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I'd say pretty much none of us want to be on the phone to any tech support and even less of us are interested in the progress. What we want is results. We don't need a running commentary. We want an agent to just get on with what they're doing and let us know if they've found the fault and if it's fixed.

You know, like they tend to do in the UK callcentres.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

so say we all :)

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

A typical phone call I had recently with the indian call centre:

Me: Hello, Could I speak with the 50mb support Team Please

India: Yes Sir, this is the 50mb Technical Support Team, how Can I help you?

Me: Are you sure you can support 50mb?

India: Yes Sir, I support 20mb and 50mb.

Me: Ok Thanks, I am still having problems with my upload and download speeds on the 50mb service.

India: Can I take your details and password blah blah.

Me: Gives Info

India: Ok sir, can you tell me what speed you are getting

Me: I'm getting 900k upload speed and only 26mb download speed.

India: 900k upload speed is fine sir, you should be getting 768k (My Alarm bell starts to ring)

Me: I'm on the 50mb Service, it should be up to 1.5mb and also, I'm only getting 26mb download speed.

India: Yes sir these speeds are fine for your package. (Oh Dear!)

Me, Aggrevated: No, I am on 50mb, these speeds are not fine!

India: You are on 50mb, hold on sir, let me transfer you to the 50mb team, can you hold?

Me: Waits on hold music for 4 minutes.

India: I am sorry sir I can't put you through to the 50mb line. Can I give you there number.

He then gives me a 0800 number. I ring, I get long number not is use tone, I chucks phone at wall.

Some are better than others, but to tell me he deals with 50mb, what a joke and waste of 10 minutes of time.

Mabs

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

A group hug and/or high fives would seem appropriate *waits for male bonding to subside* ;)

H'ok. Well, I still doubt it very much that if Tech was UK-based everyone would be content with the new support Utopia. Let's face it, whoever is trying to keep VM's customers happy has got his/her work cut out. Lots of people seem only to use the net for checking that their connection is up to speed...

Just how many times are you guys contacting tech? Perhaps the 9 different agents you spoke to Russ were the same bloke doing support Rory Bremner style :D

ps looks like things are getting worse!

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

If you are on 50Mb then you will have received a dedicated number to call so you get through to the 50Mb support teams first time, so ring that next time.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Here is another one for the list and although Kymmy suggested using the groups to report a fault that any first line agent could have escalated, this is not the answer. I read the groups and they are becoming more popular and we can see why, the groups are manned by 2nd line agents but only one at a time. One morning to afternoon & then one afternoon to evening.
With the influx of help requests what do you think will happen when the 2nd line agent can not cope with the amount of requests?
Outsourcing offshore maybe?

I can fully understand the want and need to use the groups to avoid being given the run around by poor performing first line agents, however, VirginMedia need to be alerted/reminded of the dire support being given by their agents.
I'd urge you to call and have your complaint logged or do it in writing.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I personally dislike calling offshore call centres, to, as I've always had problems understanding strong Indian accents
But, with that said, I sometimes find it hard to understand strong scottish, welsh and irish accents to, heh

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I've nothing personal against call centres wherever they may be located, I have something against centres that waste my time by being inefficient and generally a waste of space when I deal with them.

I put it down to VM outsourcing and VM's outsourcing company being too cheap to train the staff properly, so they can be incompetent and have no issues apparently making things up if they don't know the solution to get you off the phone, again likely due to the outsourcer's policies.

Of course you can bet that the outsourcing company have all sorts of wonderful stats and facts and figures that paint a rose-tinted picture of how wonderful their centre is, and above all it's really cheap for Virgin Media, who let's face it are not massively bothered about quality but being as cheap, mass market and pile it high flog it cheap as possible. Certainly no objections to saving a few quid a the expense of customer service.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

not only the accents, but also the duplex delay in replying, and also the reading from a prepared script which bears no relation to you specific problem. (Before anyone complains - this is for ALL COMPANIES who use off-shore call centres for support.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

They are just being cheap, that's all there is to it.

In Japan, you get a 100x or more faster connection, true unlimited usage and a Japanese person in a Japanese call centre. They do still have scripts, but at least (in my experience) they are human beings and will listen to you, unlike the Indian lot who just plough on with their script no matter what. Oh, and it costs a lot less too.

It is possible to have efficient UK call centres with people who can cope when it isn't just another "reboot modem" and don't automatically try blame everything on the customer's router/pc/toaster when nothing in their little list of time-wasting exercises works.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-273300.html

I wonder, hehe ;)

---------- Post added at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------

Japan the story is quite different with how those networks came into being, and it's worth remembering that both few people see any performance outside of Japan, and that even inside Japan they struggle to hit 100Mbit.

It's also incredibly competitive there, with FTTH competing with extremely fast DSL and extremely high performance cable, while here it's average competing with mediocre competing with rubbish.

That is the case in Japan, but on the other hand a part of this is due to their customers and in turn the UK as a whole being cheap about how much we pay for our providings. Far too many people want to pay next to nothing then will go complain like crazy when it doesn't work as they'd like it to.

I'm not condoning it or anything but too many people are far too quick to shout about how they pay 'x' amount for a service and expect it to be perfect while they'd pay next to nothing for a commodity then shrug their shoulders when it breaks as it was cheap.

Hopefully as people use broadband more they'll get it into their heads that they are going to actually have to pay more, not less, for the next generation stuff (and I don't class VM's present 50Mbit product as next-gen, it's a rushed product that imho doesn't get next-gen until it's 5Mbit up).

Likewise though hopefully BT and VM will be slapped into actually competing instead of BT doing nothing and VM doing the bare minimum. Then we will see services improve in all ways, the services themselves, customer service, etc.

You can bet if BT pulled support back to the UK and made a lot of noise about it VM would soon do likewise!

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

you can say that again, i was having a nosey round speedtest.net last night as I was getting excited about my 50mbit being installed and i was comparing VMs speeds against other isps in my area and the closest speed wise was Edgenet which I have never heard of. I had a look on their website and they do leased lines (which we often talk about because we all want our full 20mbit) and I couldn't believe it when I read a 20mbit uncontended line was £1099 a MONTH.

I have never moaned about my speed because I always get 20mbit 99% of the time but hopefully the rest of us will moan a but less now :)

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Unfortunately some people will never be happy, I can think of several members who only seem to be happy when they are complaining:rolleyes:

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Yep, it is far more important to me to have a service that works and tbh my VM cable service does just that. Just enjoy the service guys and thank your lucky stars you live in a cabled area and give the people in tech a break when you have to call them once in a blue moon. Everyone likes a good ol' moan but really, if things were as bad as some say, they'd move on.

Some want it cheaper and faster and they want to be Paris Hilton's British best friend all in one deal. :) (actually, come to think of it....:p:)

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Stop watching that movie set in the city of Paris, I think it was the city.:D

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

She can try to fix my 'problem' 9 times if she likes and I won't care about her accent or lack of technical skill :D

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I said I was happy and never moaned about my speed, tech support is another matter and something i will moan about. It doesnt matter it if only goes down once a year, I would mind if it went down once a week if i could ring tech support and they fixed it but there is nothing more annoying than ringing tech support and them not being able to resolve your problem. I have had my cable modem for 8 years now and yes I do only give them a ring once a year, but that i 8 phone calls I have made and I am being honest when I say not once have they even acknowledged a fault let alone fixed it, and once of them was an outage that affected half the country for a couple of hours.

Speed and reliability great, tech support crap :td:

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Ok General. But on balance and taking everything into account, 8 calls in 8 years is not so bad. Bet you've rung UK-based energy suppliers a whole lot more! :D

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

It sounds like BT are planning to have fibre to the cabinet for 40% of the country by 2012 (BBC News). That will bring ADSL up to 50Mb for some lucky people. The problem is that by 2012 they will be over 10 years behind Japan, and the gap will only be widening.

The excuse that there is more competition there does not make the situation any more acceptable. As we have now discovered we are already a largely service based economy, and we if allow oursleves to fall too far behind in the development of broadband we are going to suffer.

Actually, you can get 100/100 fibre here for about 20 quid a month. A basic "up to 50meg" ADSL line is about fiftenn pounds a month. That's pretty much the minimum speed available. All truely unlimited, BTW.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Yeah appreciate that it's largely unlimited ;) but there is congestion on the networks of the kind that UK people wouldn't like, as soon as someone in the UK on 20 quid a month 100/100 drops below 90Mbit they'd probably be on the blower to their supplier.

Can you also imagine the UK tolerating the kind of speeds Japan sees outside of Japan? You guys get a fraction of line speed as soon as you leave the Islands, that'd cause mass complaints here.

You guys just have a different model, very high access speeds with contention at core and transit levels, here we expect 100% performance 100% of the time for nothing and whinge and moan as soon as it tails off.

As far as BT go, as per my comment on Thinkbroadband:

Or as in the case of quite a few places, already deployed!

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

What do the last 2 posts have to do with VM's Indian Technical Support?

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Virgin Media are training the technicians who will support India's domestic broadband revolution, of course! It's because they like to give.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

They trained the trainers about 18 months ago and it appears some have forgotten it already.:D

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Nope.

75Mb+ to Astraweb servers in the US or P2P users in Korea.

To bring the discussion back on topic, Japanese users demand quality as well as a headline number, so Indian call centres would never be acceptable. The bottom line is that unless VM invest massively in training and English lessons, and then allow calls to be quickly escalated and not forcing people to go through the script every time I just can't see how the call centres can provide anything but a poor and frustrating "service".

HP are using South African call centres at the moment and I find them a lot easier to understand, and also a lot better educated and intelligent in general. They always ask you some basic questions but if you say you have already done what they are suggesting, they accept it and move on. It's just a shame that it usually takes them about three pick-up/return cycles to fix a laptop. We had one come back with a cracked copy of Vista installed once too!

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

time to add salt to the wound. I signed up for 50mbit last week and took a bundle deal where you get 50mbit + L TV + M Phone for £45 a month and I got a letter through today saying that the package was £65. I rang 150 and got an Indian dude and not matter how many times I tried to explain things to him he kept reading the cost breakdown to me as if he was justifying the £65 cost and I told him the items on the breakdown were correct but the cost was wrong and all he kept saying was "yes I understand what you are saying sir" and I just felt like saying "no you f*cking dont otherwise you would fix the problem. In the end I told him I didnt care what he did but to fix it so that I get charged £45, at that point he said he couldnt change anything himself and he would transfer me through to customer services and I got to speak to an english guy who fixed the problems in 2 mins (literally).

I just want to say thanks to the Indian dude who wasted 15 mins of my life today, it ****es me off sooooo much. If i have any problems when my 50mbit gets installed I cant even be arsed with ringing someone, I'll just go through the newsgroups.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

And who will end up funding that investment? I like my broadband fast and cheap and I don't want to pay for a gold-standard, UK-based, oxford-English-speaking, super-skilled, supertech on tap for the odd time I might ring them.

Anyone else fancy a hefty increase in subscriptions? I doubt it.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

I'm fine with paying more for better service, I really this is evidently a scary concept but I guess I'm just strange like that in that I don't want piled high, sold cheap, supported poorly and maintained worse :)

I like my broadband fast, robust, reliable, backed by good support when needed and ideally maintained so that it isn't. Cost is quite a bit further down the line. I used to subscribe to Zen a while ago, fantastic service. A VM Premier service would be marvellous.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Well, as someone who doesn't have the luxury someone like Kursk has of having smooth running broadband, I'd happily spend the extra cash and have decent call centres when they were needed.

It's not just the language barrier, it's the personal touch. When you speak to someone in this country it is easier to get a sympathetic ear and also someone who understands when you veer from the "script" and need extra help.

There are good reasons why companies like NatWest advertise the fact they have U.k call centres. If all call centres were treated equally then they wouldn't feel the need to boast about it.

It's the same with TalkTalk, so it isn't only VM. I've called TalkTalk on my uncles behalf any times, and usually when I get put through to India there is a bad line coupled with the difficulty in explaining problems that might not follow the script - yet when I have managed to speak to someone in the U.K I have been sorted out very quickly.

The big difference of course, being that Talktalk is infinitely cheaper (free even) than VM. I have said it before, but VM are one of the most expensive providers out there now for broadband - and for that I expect a premium service. Which both service wise and customer service wise, is anything but.

Heck, because of numerous complaints they don't get the full price off me at the moment anyway. Imagine if they sorted the service, had little need for calling call centres, and then sat back and enjoyed everyone paying full price - and then when you needed them on very rare occasions, spoke to someone in the U.K - bliss!

I'm digressing a little - but I wonder what percentage of customers pay full price for the services? there seem to be an awful lot of people here who have been unhappy for one reason or another and so have been offered deals.

Re: What I've got against VM's Indian callcentre
 

Fine. But I think you'll find at the top of most customer's lists is prices being kept down. Feel free to pay more for the support you want, but don't ask me to chip in. Why aren't you with Zen now? I'm happy to speak with an Indian rep.

My VM service is good; it's very good in fact. Is yours really, no, I mean really, that bad Retrovertigo?