Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Hi Guys

Dont quite know how to put this but I am aware of people who are working within direct sales at Virgin Media (who visit customers in their own homes and have access to bank details etc) who have Criminal Records for fraud, theft and violence.

I do not want to report this to my manager but was looking to you for some advice on how the management at Virgin Media can be made aware of this?

Most companies who employ people who work in direct sales require all new recruits to undertake a criminal reference check before they are allowed to sell - Virgin dont! I am aware of only a few with criminal records who work in my team but this could be many more salespeople across the country.

I feel we have an obligation to look after customers and ensure that the salespeople visiting them are the type of people you and me would want in our houses.

Any advice? please help.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I will PM you

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Check this

http://www.crb.gov.uk/ also - http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=313

People with a record are under No Obligation to disclose this at interview unless asked directly. Also i doubt very much a VirginMedia Sales Person would fall under the exemptions order. The CRB are quite strict on who is allowed to run checks on people.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Thanks Solventcandy

Surely Virgin Media has a legal obligation to customers to ensure that they a visited by by a salesperson who has been checked?

They are certainly able to demand that these checks are carried out prior to appointing sales staff.

I have done a bit of reasearch myself and British Gas, Eon, Scottish Power, Npower and Sky ensure that all of their staff have to complete background checking on individuals before they are allowed to visit customers.

If they can do it why cant Virgin Media?

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------

vOid

You are talking about spent convictions which wouldnt even show on a criminal reference check as it is spent?

I am talking about staff with unspent convictions visiting customers.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Because under the ROA there is no legal requirement for them to do so as they have no direct unsupervised contact with "Vunerable People".

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrig...rd-checks.html

Good read

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Solventcandy

So why do all the big utilities and and other companies do it?

Is it right that these people are unchecked?

Rather be safe than sorry?

I have raised this now and with the number of hits its getting Im sure by now someone within Virgin is aware.

If they do nothing about it and a customer was to make a claim (for whatever reason) then the courts would surely look at this in a negative way as Virgin have the opportunity to carry out these checks but just didnt bother!

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

the company i work for made me get a disclosure certificate from disclosure scotland!
I dont even deal with customers bank details just their personal details!

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

the crb system isn't meant for checking on all employees and depending on when the conviction was and what type of role they have should ( doesnt always lol ) have an effect on whether it would be included on the report sent to company ( i know i receive these things )

and in any case as said it was never meant to be used in this manner the only reason i could see for using it is if they are to visit people at home and have direct access to money or are going to be dealing with children or vulnerable adults

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

VM direct sales staff have access to bank/credit card details, are in a customers home and potentially around kids etc.

The question is.........should these salespeople be checked?

I personally think the answer is yes.

I have never had a criminal conviction for anything - why should i be working alongside people who have convictions?

It is about protecting customers and the vulnerable.

Just to let you guys know i am going to resign and inform the press if Virgin do not address this.

This forum has allowed me to air my views but if a company is not willing to look after its customers interests do i really want to work there anyway. I will go and work in utilities (gas and electric) at least there i will be able to hold my head up high and say to customers "I have been background checked" to give them confidence in who I really am!

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Its not for people who meet children its for those who are going to be left in charge of them

same goes really for the bank details unless they are going to be left alone in the house it shouldnt make any difference

it should be easy to catch any who did try and sell these details they need for DD form as they should spot they were all called on by them

if you want to go to the press so be it ( lol me defending virgin )

but what with the government wanting to get single mothers the disabled and retired in work i cant see them trying to stop those who have served thier time from getting jobs either

plus in any case CRB's are not worth the paper they are printed on ( i have an enhanced one myself ) they don't even require references to get one now just proof of address basicaly there are no real checks in place to make sure you are who you say you are it just says the person named on form was checked by the police and other agencies but no where do they check in real terms that that is who you are

i would never employ some one at the nursary based on a CRB

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Sorry rogermevans do you work for Virgin Media?

all the companies i have mentioned previously (apart form Virgin) conduct these checks as well as gain references from previous employers. If the checks are not (to quote) "worth the paper they are written on" then why are they used by police recruitment candidates, local councils and all the big companies out there.

As far as employing somebody at a nursary you would have to CRB them and gain satisfactory references from their previous employer?!

As far as it being easy to catch those selling on DD details I think you are wrong.We have all seen the stuff on TV where this happens and it is happening today. Should we not be reducing the risk rather than act after the horse has bolted?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

The whole point, imho, is that the CRB check is to minimise risk to children and vulnerable adults - if the salesmen had previous, but now spent, convictions for assault 10 years ago, how is this relevant to their employment with VM, and how does it put the customers at risk?

btw, a condition of my employment with a University was to undertake a CRB.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I did this through my job as I needed to go 'airside' at Liege Airport in Belgium. Even though I have been MOD security checked for a previous job and signed the OSA.

Cost £10 which i claimed back and it came with in 5 days.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

To be fair at one time there was a section on the form about one's financial and credit standing along side the criminal section of the form.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

yep i know lots of companies get them done but they are not suposed to be used the way they are

its part of the reason it can take up to 6 months to check a person to work in a nursery or school where they will have direct access to children

why do councils etc get them done to make it look like they have done everything my point is though that none of this checks you are the person you say you are unless all references are checked preferably by talking to a real person who can describe you

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

there still is but the part that was most important imho which asked for personal references isn't used any more as it took to long to do the checks

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

foreverwar

This would not not include people with spent convictions. When its spent its spent! these people have the right to ork where they want to.

People who currently get checked would not be affected with an assault charge ten years ago.

Its about here and now. I could be working with people who got convicted for fraud last week!

---------- Post added at 22:25 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------

Background checking requires the individual to supply passport/driving licence etc with their applicatin and to correct you the check with Disclosure Scotland currently takes on average 16 days (their stats not mine).

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Ahem

CRB

"If however you are being employed by a government body or large organisation then they are responsible for seeking this disclosure - after having informed you of their intent to do so - and may under law seek to gain an enhanced disclosure which will detail all offences, charges or arrests leveled against you spent or otherwise.

It is worth remembering as well that if you were cautioned by the police for whatever reason - should it even have been a caution received as a minor - this too will show up on your CRB disclosure."

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Are VM not a large organisation?

I believe a common sense approached is used by companies using these checking services.

a caution or conviction for driving would not be involved in the decision to employ if it was not relevant.

But lets say someone had a conviction for credit card fraud or some sex offence would you as an employer not want to know about it?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Have you raised this with the HR department, and if so, what was their response.

You started this thread off with the statement
"Dont quite know how to put this but I am aware of people who are working within direct sales at Virgin Media (who visit customers in their own homes and have access to bank details etc) who have Criminal Records for fraud, theft and violence."

You have not qualified this statement, because if they are spent, what is the relevance? If they are not spent, ask VM what their policy is, and if you are not happy, you have a number of options.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

They are not spent - they are unspent, dont want to speak to HR.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I have an idea.

Here at Cf we have high-level contacts within VM. How about we put your concerns to them. No names will be mentioned but the people we're in touch with are the movers and shakers within VM. They get things done.

I'm not saying you will neccessarily get what you want but your concerns will be given to people who have the power to make changes.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

NO! If the sentance is "spent" then the potential employee does not have to declare their record.

That said, if the sentance is "not spent" they must by law declare this.

Personally and this is personally, you have nothing to worrie about, its offending you think this, some people have just made the wrong choice is a split second and paid for it. Where as there are others, who continue to make the wrong choice.

I have worked for the MOD with DV Clearance and I have a "record" its all about if your a risk or not.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

No disrespect, but you are saying you believe there is a problem, but don't want to hear what the VM policy is, which may mitigate your concerns.

Webby, an enhanced check will show spent convictions as well.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Either way dude, this is a petty and down right frustrating topic, if these people have made such a choice by where they face a custodial sentance or something else, community pay back etc and they have "done their time" then, these people are entitled to put their life back together and start a fresh, most people deserve that chance, unless you have done something stupid or down right foolish.

Honesty is the best policy.

Correct and enhanced check would show this but it's a bit over the top isn't it, just a crummy £15 - £20k a year "sales" job. Ill give you that, if it was something like "head of customer services" etc etc then yes, it is needed but something as simple as a sales job, what aload of old tosh.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Totally agree.

Done the time, move on.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

depending on the type of CRB even some spent convictions may show up theres even a section that a concerned police man can fill in about suspected offences

this is why they shouldnt be being used on mass by organisations for people who may just meet children in the course of their day

side point but because it can take 6 months or longer to get these done did you know schools don't have to get a new one done on temporary or substitute teachers unless they plan to work there for longer than that

so your kids could be taught by a person whos crb is well out of date or not even thiers

so forgive me if i am not really that concerned if sales men dont have one

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

A CRB is ONLY if you are to have " one on one " contact with children and the eldery and the special needs.

ill give you that, its needed for any "government type" role, along with SC clearance.

Schools etc etc are a different kettle of fish, compared to a sales job at Virgin Media.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Sorry but "crummy £15 -20k sales job" is not what it is - i work and have worked in the direct sales industry for some time OTE is £34K - and you will not stay unless you are on/around sales target! Some earn (if they are good) in excess of £60K, last year the top earner over £100K.

I dont think earnings are the point of this topic. I will say it again - its about protecting custmers! Who do you want knocking your door?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

From what i can gather he just don't wanna work with people that have made some mistakes!!

Live and let live i say!

And TBH you could resign and tell the press, the only person that would end up looking daft is yourself. VM would be respected because we now live in a day an age where acceptance is key.

Just because you have a criminal record shouldn't stop you moving on and getting on with your life....

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

i have a criminal record for assault after i acted in self defence once when attacked. I wouldnt like to think it would count against me if i wanted to take a job.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I totally agree but these people have lied on their job application.

Does that mean if i give fraudulant details to VM at point of job application that is Ok?

Thats what is happening!

Having a spent criminal record should not stop an idividual moving on but we are playing with customers lives here.

There will be only one party looking daft and it wont be me!

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

How do you know they have lied? Have you seen their job application forms? Have they told you they lied?

For all you know they could have been 100% honest and for whatever reason Virgin may have given them a chance

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:16 ----------

It seems to me there is something more that just concern about customers here

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Have you considered my offer?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Yeah there is more than just concern about customers...........

My job security and any negative press reports about direct sales in general if this gets out.

It came to a head today when I was talking to a colleague about their recent conviction they had last week. What was I gonna say - "thanks for sharing that with me but i must report you to HR"?

Dont shoot the messenger here boss I raised this issue for us to discuss and hopefully get sorted. We have plenty of good people working at VM and this is to support and protect them as well as me!

---------- Post added at 00:30 ---------- Previous post was at 00:28 ----------

Yes please - go for it.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

So you work for Virgin Direct Sales?

The surely you must be able to contact GSID (same people who deal with STB fraud) They would be the most appropriate people to report this to, rather than a web forum?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

suggested reading

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=308

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=310

dont see sales reps in that any where

i have the full pack here lol ( another boring read ) not one mention of salesman in it either

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

You obvously work for Virgin Media so your opinions are biased.

My experiences of GSID so far have not been the best so I am not going there.

Its in the open now which is where it should be - VM are aware of the risks but have decided to keep it quiet - until now!

---------- Post added at 00:42 ---------- Previous post was at 00:39 ----------

Yeah that will be why British Gas, Eon, Npower, Scottish Power and Sky do it as part of their recuitment process???!!!!

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

i could understand why those ( not including sky ) would CRB engineers who may have to enter property to fix things in an emergency even if an adult wasn't there and or fixing equipment in an elderly persons home

but sky and virgin as far as i am aware ( as i dont work for them ( should see my posts on sky 1 lol ) ) require an adult or at least some one over 16 to be present for the engineers to carry out any work inside a property

and i would hope they require adults to be present to sign contracts and fill out direct debits

so no need to do crb and they may even find themselves on the end of a human rights case if they turned down some one for a job based on some of te stuff a CRB could throw up as some of the stuff that can be in there is only usable if you are doing certain prescribed jobs

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I have feeling this is going to rumble on until it all gets out of hand :(

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

me never :angel:

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Guys

It is obvious to me that some respondants to this thread are current Virgin Media employee's working in compliance/security so want to cover this up/make it less important than it is.

I wanted to release the information I have this way to highlight current problems via a forum to address the current issue, please be advised I have recieved several Personal Messages from Virgin Media employees who probably want me to keep "stum" and take this internal.

I would have done this if I had good experiences to prior issues raised to them via my Area Manager.

I will keep you informed and updated as things progress.

I need to go now as I am up early and out with my criminal associates to knock doors and sell "cable" to unsuspecting customers!

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

That's not true at all. We have a good idea about who works for VM on the site. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean there's any sort of cover up.

If you want me to get involved I'll need you to PM me with your concerns, I'll put it to the rest of the team and we'll go from there.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Yet another conspiracy theory.
a) "it is obvious to me" - unsubstantiated smear
b)"probably want me to keep stum" - well, do they or don't they?;)

"criminal associates" - not at all overdramatising - if these colleagues are escaped convicts, I share your concern; if they have served their sentence, what is the problem?

btw, what is "cable"? Is it like cable? :D

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Sounds like to me somebody needs to take their medicine again. You seem to be blowing this WAY out of propertion, as alot of people have said, how do you know they have lied on their applications? How would you know? Was you sat in on the interview with them? I think the answer to all of those would be a resounding NO!

Please don't!! This generally sounds like a pile of old tosh! ;)

Can a mod lock this thread now before it gets a little out of hand and we keep going round and round, saying the same things.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Looks like you just shot yourself in the foot then :(

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Word of warning, criminals dont like a grass.... I'd watch out incase someone sees what you're posting ;)

By the way can you sell me 700 virgins.....

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I really do not see what the problem is with reporting them to your manager, VM have a
obligation to their customers and as such so do you, you have info that should be reported.

I say talk to your manager ASAP.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

How did do you find out whether your collegues may or may not have a criminal record anyway? :/

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Nope, anyone is free to post (or not post) whatever they want as long as it does not breach the site's T&Cs. When a post does, the poster will be warned or receive an infraction. If they thread gets out of hand we will close it, until then it stays open.

The original poster has made his points, and others have made counter-points and pointed out information that seems to contradict Virgin Salesman's arguments, which is fine. That does not mean that Virgin Salesman does not have legitimate concerns. If he wants to air his concerns in public and exercise his free speech rather than speak to VM HR (pfft who could blame him) or utilise other internal VM processes (that apparently he has no confidence in), then so be it.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

You have to make sure before entering a property that the person is over 18yrs old. If you feel that there could be a problem you could get someone else to accompany you into property or you just don't enter it.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

sounds about right to me though i got a vague memory of my one nephew letting the sky man in at 16 though i had phoned to say i would be there very soon as i was stuck in the same traffic jam as the sky man but he was a bit ahead of me ;)

but 18 does sound right

and negates the even slight need to have a CRB

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Okay so I think we have established that is not the right way to go, so what do you think VM should be doing to manage the risks associated with having people with unspent criminal records in your house and looking at your personal information?

One possibility could be tightening up hiring policies for certain types of jobs to bring them in line with other large companies.

Virgin Salesman, what do you think? You're the one who posted on here and I am kinda confused as to what you hoped to gain from posting in the first place. Any colleagues with criminal records fired? Tigher policies? Your moment in the spotlight if some local media maybe writes a story when you resign?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Frank

I have kept a low profile since my original points were raised. This has created more attention than I originally thought it would.

What I would like to see is VM change their current recruitment policy and CRB check all new F2F recruits.

I would also like to see all our current face to face staff complete a CRB, VM could then make a decision on whether they would continue to allow these people to sell (based on how severe (or not) the check was on the individual).

VM wants to be a big player in the market but with our current recruitment policies we are only leaving ourselves open to abuse from customers and the media regarding the calibre of our staff.

Direct sales already has a bad reputation, I would like to see it cleaned up - other companies (including Sky - working in the same market) are doing their bit so why shouldnt we? Lets make F2F selling a better place with better people who are not just looking after their own interests.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

A CRB check is not going to change that. I doubt that every dodgy direct sales agent has a criminal record

Stopping handwritten contracts might help. No more 'He said/She said' ;)

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Bye -bye then. People make mistakes in life, pay for them and then move on. Seems like you think they should be branded for life "I made a mistake in the past". Hope you never make a mistake, haven't got a speeding ticket have you? A parking ticket?. Naughty criminal, better resign immediately. Oh hang on, you're going anyway.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:17 ----------

sorry, but have you heard the phrase "put up or shut up?". If you are *that* concerned then why on earth *wouldn't* you speak to HR. It's your duty man, so get on with it. In fact if you believe what you are saying is true and you don't report it, then if anything does happen you will be liable for the results.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Yes I have had speeding/parking fines in the past but haven't we all?

A CRB includes motoring offences but would not be taken into consideration when a company decides if someone is fit to knock on a potential customers door. If however the person was convicted of a sex or fraud offence then surely they shouldnt be allowed to do be in a customers home?

I dont know why I am debating this point - its clear, if you have been convicted of theft, sex offences, fraud or violence with an unspent conviction then surely you should not be knocking doors?

What is happening here - I will say it again - we have a duty of care to ensure all customers are protected against individuals that could cause harm based on their previous unspent convictions!!!

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Okay well I thought people had pointed out that the CRB is not for that kind of of purpose, and is more aimed at checking people that have contact with children?

If you actually are aiming for that, then I would suggest taking Russ up on his offer as that is probably the best chance you have of seeing that happen. Or perhaps raising this issue with VM's compliance department by pointing out what kind of problems this is having in specific detail so they are able to do something about it. They need enough detail to be able to justify action.
At the end of the day, VM is pretty much the same company as ntl Telewest was, just with a nice consumer-friendly rebranding using a brand that someone else built up. If you don't get any joy after raising the issue through either of methods above, I would suggest jumping ship to a company that cares more about its reputation, the quality of it's direct sales channel and the staff that work in that channel. Simple as that.
Well other companies are managed by other execs that perhaps think differently and have different priorities. We've been through various CEOs since this site was around in its various incarnations, and the current CEO seems to be a bit of a p**k to be honest. That said, I doubt that something like you are proposing is going to be given the priority it deserves, so see my suggestions above. Also, you say that Sky is better, but the grass is not always greener. How sure are you that Sky is actually "doing their bit", or is it just they better manage public perception?

Also consider that from a management perspective, they are trying to run the company under a large debt load (usual these days :D), and there is a balancing act between costs and profits. In other words, if the amount being spent on vetting new employees is serving their needs well enough (complaints about employees with criminal records are stastically acceptable) then why would they spend more money of further vetting the employees?

There are two schools of management imho.

Management that truly values and embraces customers and make the organisation customer focussed as much as possible - while controlling costs - in order to make a profit. This group of management would embrace you, sit down and talk about how they could improve their recruitment process, and actually seriously believe that they have a duty to their customers to protect them from people with criminal records. They would look to industry best practise in terms of recruitment policies, and take strides to change their policy so that people with convictions are screened out, however they go about doing it. Perhaps it would include CRB for F2F sales, perhaps not. Regardless, it's not a small change you are looking for in a company of VM's size.

The other group of management doesn't care about customers, they are more interested in growing sales through snazzy product launches overlooking Buckingham palace and reducing costs through traffic shaping internet service . Old school, non Cluetrain outlook. They would look at the statistics of complaints under the current structure and conclude that even though the VM sales force includes people with unspent convictions, the effect of this is acceptable, and would therefore do nothing.

Sadly the direction comes from the top. 1 guess which group Berkett is in.

---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

Come on, let's face it, HR are useless in situations such as this. Speaking to HR about something like this is not going to help. What are they going to do about it?
Erm how did you figure that?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Frank

How sure can I be that Sky is actually "doing their bit", or is it just they better manage public perception?

100% - I know friends that work there - they are unable to work F2F with customers until their checks are completed and come back good. 1 guy I know had to wait 5 weeks to get his check returned.

This also goes for all utility companies - all direct sales are checked via disclosure scotland.

Frank - I would like to thank you at this point for taking a common sense approach to this matter and probably calming things a bit! Your advice has helped me a lot. This issue has caused me a lot of stress since posting and i thought long and hard before posting. The response I have received from some individuals on the forum has shocked me greatly. I will think again before i open my mouth (or my laptop) in the future.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Why is HR useless? Put it in writing and they *have* to respond. They can't ignore it. they have certain legal duties to fulfil.

As for "how did I figure that out". Let's say you have found out that I intended to go and kill someone and you made no attempt to stop me. What does that make you? - an accomplice after the fact. Same here. If the Salesman has genuine info and does nothing about it and a "tragedy"; does happen then he is just as responsible as the perpetrator. Over and above that he has a moral obligation to "do the right thing".

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I've skimmed this entire thread and found it hilarious.

You work for virgin media, so your opinions must be biased also ?

Why don't you move to one of those companies then, with a more desirable recruitment process?

Yeah, that - and - how do you know your managers / duty staff / HR don't know this already? I've heard they love hearing things over and over again from worried colleagues about irrelevant and silly little things!

Really? What if you're driving there? How can they trust you to park in the right place or to not speed on your way? I mean, as you have motoring offences, you must be a felon!
You never mentioned the word 'unspent' or 'unserved' convictions in your original post. And as for asking why you're debating, this isn't a publicist site unfortunately, people have and will always have their right to post & express their views and opinions.
I'm sure that Virgin Media are more than thorough with their checks when necessary. I doubt they would be so careless.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Well firstly they don't have to respond to anything. They work for the employer and if the employer chooses not to respond to your complain then tough luck. Secondly, there is no legal duty to respond to your complaint, especially as you would in this case be complaining about a company recruitment policy.
I'm not sure how we got from unspent convictions for salespeople to knowledge of premeditated murder, but I'll bite :D

In your scenario, your argument is flimsy at best, technically wrong at worst. The legal word for "accomplice after the fact" is "Accessory," which is someone who actively participates in the commission of...murder in this case. There is no such thing as "accessory after the fact".

And there is no plausible way that any judge could find someone guilty of being an "accessory" just by knowing about an expressed intent to perhaps do something in the future.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Whoa this is getting very deep!

I am aware that some of the direct salespeople working for VM have criminal records - I am not resposible for their actions.

I am also aware that some of the VM media management have now read this thread as have over 1000 others, i think my job is done here? Please dont hold me responsible, isnt that for the management of VM?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

That is a stupid argument and does not resolve the issue. We are discussing VM here.
Again, you are comparing apples with oranges. A motoring infraction is clearly not the same as a conviction for theft or something more serious.
Sorry, you contradicted yourself here. How can you be sure they are thorough and doubt they are not thorough at the same time? You are sure based on what exactly?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I think you should stick to riding your bike with "L" plates and your provisonal licence.

With regard to VM current checks you cant be aware of their current policy - unless you work there, which I doubt because as your profile says you are "mostly in bed"

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Okay people let us keep this polite and not insult each other.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Knew it would happen ;)

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Now that depends on what the offense is surely . Blanketing motoring offenses as less serious that theft. Driving without due care and attention could cause injury to innocents whats about reckless driving? causing death by reckelss driving? drink driving? causing death whilst under the influence? just a plain theft charge would not it would have to be with menaces or an assault ;)

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

to be fair we only have your assertion that you work for VM to go on - LBA does 'at least', have the accreditation of being related to a previous very well respected moderator of this site.

- as such we can assume he is entitled to the opinion expressed - do we have the same re-assurance for you?

Everyone has their right to an opinion within the T&C's of this site, regardless of their age, your descent into patronisation doesn't enhance yours, unfortunately?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

lol okay sure I agree. Obviously if someone has a Drink Driving conviction VM probably would not want them driving around in one of their vans.

However, to nitpick, the original example used which I made my point towards was parking in the right place and speeding to get there, which would be less serious. ;)

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

OK fair point I am feeling very frustated at the moment but gives me no right to make things personal. I apologise.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

well said - I will 'wind my neck in' too :)

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I was stretching it a *bit* :D but my point is still valid though. If you bring something to the attention of HR that may be illegal then ignoring it isn't an option. All that does is dig them into the brown stuff as well.


As for my 2nd point, if the Salesman feels *that* strongly about it and is absolutely sure of his facts then he has a MORAL obligation to put his money where his mouth is and turn whistleblower.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

My offer is still open...

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Are you auditioning for the Godfather?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Tut...got to bring God in to it haven't you :D

Anyway, if Virgin Salesman (or anyone) wants to take this up with Virgin using me as a middleman then my offer still stands.....

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Sorry for the previous post, it was late and I'd had a bad day at work, I guess we've all been there.

Fair enough, agreed.
I didn't doubt that they were thorough at all. I doubted that VM would be so careless as to not be thorough when checking all possible applicants.

I enjoy riding it yeah - 9x9" L plates on the front and back of all 50cc motorcycles when only having undertaken Compulsory Bike Test, and I wouldn't want to get a criminal record now would I? ;)
And yeah, my provisional! The only license I can have at 16 ;)

I don't work there no, as you could tell if you read my profile properly - it has my occupation there :)

However, I know that most application processes now include criminal record questions which must be responded to truthfully and completely. How you can think that such a large company such as Virgin Media could not ask said question in an interview or in the process is absurd. I'm sure somewhere in your contract it asks for you to update your boss / manager / team leader / HR with any issues with police?

Anyway, I wont post any more in this thread. IS there not an anonymous phone number you can call internally? I know we have one for reporting any thing fishy / suspicious we see such as internal theft.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Yes there is actually, the infamous EAP or Employee Assistance Program. Lots of large companies have them, and they are run by third-party companies so as to be impartial. Never used one myself so not sure how useful it would be in this case.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I have been credit checked and crb checked for interviews for jobs in the past (tho not with vm) - and I would certainly expect vm to vet their staff in this manner. :shrug: I find that a bit disturbing that they don't.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

While it is a few years on i remember when NTL first laid the cabling back in the North of Edinburgh,many of the people hired,trained & sent into houses(mine included) were the local thieves & junkies.I think i mentioned it on here once before but i still remember warning the buggers who came to do my mothers house at the time.

Anyway,i think you`ll probably find that most professions have ciminals working within them so i`m not sure why your so surprised.
I`m also a wee bit curious how to came to know this information,unless i missed it amidst the bitching.If the people in question have discussed their past with you though then mabey the best advise is to just leave well alone.
We`ve all made mistakes after all:angel:

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Actually, from what I have been told at work, that is not true.. It's for people who deal with any vulnerable people (children are counted as vulnerable people) in any capacity as part of their job. Under certain circumstances, people also may be required to undergo a check as part of something they are volunteering for.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

no not if they are not being left in charge of them on thier own though some companies seem to stretch this to get these done when they shouldnt be

see

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=308

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=310

for a brief over view of what it is suposed to be used for and by any definition a sales person or even engineer wouldnt come under those definitions unless they are expected to look after kids as part of their visit while the parents or carers of a vulnerable person pops to the shops

just to emphasise this a volunteer at a school need not have one of these done if they are not going to be there for more than 6 months ( that's a fair bit of albeit supervised access to children ) against any of these jobs where they may meet children with their parents

any one at your work who thinks that these should be done and or insist people have them done isn't doing their job properly i suggest they re read their CRB pack properly or go on a refresher course

i suspect though they haven't done either and are just usoing an umbrella organisation to get these done who are pushing them to get as many done as possible regardless to the need to get thier sales up

here is a link to a fairly responsible ( i mean good by that in that it doesnt push to get every one done lol ) http://www.crbscreening.co.uk/aboutcrb.htm

but some other seem to activly push to gey work where they shouldnt

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

And if someone has been checked and passed, but still has convictions?


All those utilities you mention have outsourced some of their operations overseas. Do you really think that they have obtained CRB checks on all the people working in the outsourcing companies? Do you think they are even able to?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Wasn't there a case in the UK a long while back where an energy company didn't do checks like these and hired a child sex offender who when he went to read a meter molested a 4-5 year old girl?

I seem to remember it on the news. I've tried ages to find it but can't. Don't know how to search for it properly as it is old news.

You would think then that any company that sends people to homes with children should check their wrkers first.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

what the 5 year old was on her own ? or did the mother leave him to look after her kids while she popped to the shops ?

( done a search myself cant find anything on this would love a link )

i suggest you read these 2 links


http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=308

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=310

on what checks are used for

lol next we will be calling for all those living by schools to be CRBed as they see children nearly every day :Yikes:

---------- Post added at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 ----------

ah one i didn't think of

even if they did CRB ( which you may guess i disagree with them doing lol ) then thats a good point because the CRB assessor or those they advise on giving the job may well have decided that any convictions spent or otherwise were not bad enough to deny them a job

plus in those circumstance they would not be able to tell other staff or any body in the company who did not need to know ( there is some very hefty penalties for revealing this privilaged information that those of us who get these CRBs to read would get for revealing this information )

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Hi deffinately remeber this. The story was that he was a meter reader. On his daily round he went to a home where a Mum and her 4-6 year old daughter was in her bedroom. The Mum told the guy the meter was in the girls bedroom. When he went to read the meter the mother popped out the room for a sec. That's when he struck.

After the guy left the little girl went up to her mum and said to her "Why did the man touch me". She then called the police and the story broke out.

I remember reports calling him an apportunistic offender and that he had previous for such offenses. He was given a 2 year jail term.

As here, the issue was raised about what checks companies do when they hire staff who have previous sex crime convictions.

Now when I home in on finding the article it seems that results are removed from google by ChillingEffects.org. This only happens when I specifically search for the crime using British Gas in the search critera.

I don't get at all. I know I saw the news cover it. Sky news and the papers. It's even caused me to go searching news archives and I have since 20 minutes ago signed up to http://www.ukpressonline.co.uk/ukpre...open/index.jsp. I picked their 10 day account.

I'm searching at the moment but when I get results matching the year and the critera the page doesn't show.

I've called a few people also to ask if they remember it and they remeber it also.

I'm going to keep looking though.

---------- Post added at 19:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:45 ----------

I found it. http://archive.echo-news.co.uk/2004/8/20/126625.html

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

apart from the fact a CRB wouldn have helped there as he wasnt on the register till after that court case

the main problem there was some one silly enough to leave a child with some one they dont know on their own CRBs wont help these people as there are more child sex ofenders not recorded than there are out there

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Personally if someone had a recent conviction for unprovoked GBH I wouldn't be happy having them in my home. A conviction for assault in relation to self-defense I would have no problem with, nor speeding offences, or parking offences etc. I'm sure everyone would draw their own line as to what they would be happy with. I guess what the OP was stating was the Virgin should be drawing a line somewhere but they are not. I can in no way understand why anyone would have a problem with this. It just seems like common sense to me. Arguing about where the line should be, fair enough, but arguing that there should be no line seems crazy to me.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

the line has been draw have a look at above CRB links or here

http://www.volunteering.org.uk/Resou...on/whencrb.htm

these checks were never meant to make you safe at home
see links below on how to do that


http://www.essex.police.uk/advice/v_you_02.php

http://www.sandiego.gov/police/preve...tyathome.shtml

the check are there to help schools and those dealing with vulnerable adults on a daily basis to better deliver a safe service but even with these checks we still need to monitor staff ourselves

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Well here's the thing. This quote from the article below:

This did make national news. It was everywhere and in all the papers. The same thing being discussed here was discussed by people back then, the fact that checks should have been made. What's not reported in the article I posted was that he was already on the Sex offenders register because he'd done something similar before, twice. The whole debate came up about how many Sex offenders were working in Jobs like that but not just Sex offenders but other types of offenders.

After that happened it all seemed to go quiet. British Gas apologised etc and it was like a media blackout on the reporting of whether companies like that do crminal checks on people who apply for a Job.

There'd be no reason for me to make this up as others remember it also and the news coverage.

Personally I believe this was a major problem that companies weren't following procedures and we had criminals abound, especially sex offenders, working in Jobs where they went in to the homes of Joe public.

I remember The Sun, The Daily Mail and The News Of the World being particularly vocal about it and the whole Sarah's Law issue popped up again because of this idiot meter reader and what he had done.

I believe a CRB check would have shown his previous history. Maybe a CRB check was done and that's why it became the scandal it became.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Not by Virgin apparently. I believe that's the entire point of this thread.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

you seem to miss my point the line is these people should not be CRBed they are not looking after children or vulnerable adults

Virgin can check their staff by other methods


to many seem to think the CRB is the answer to everything it is not and should not be

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

If my understanding is correct the CRB is for those who are likely to come in to contact with the vunerable as part of their job, not just looking after them.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

did not mean to imply you made it up at all just wanted to see what they had said about checks as i doubt any informed government or police person would have been suggesting they had to CRB these type of people

---------- Post added at 00:31 ---------- Previous post was at 00:29 ----------


no just seeing kids is not a reason to have this done see#


http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=308

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=310

and

http://www.volunteering.org.uk/Resou...on/whencrb.htm

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Just to clarify, in relation to Virgin not vetting people with a criminal record you stated "the line has been draw have a look at above CRB links". The OP asserts that this is incorrect, Virgin have not drawn a line. Whether this is true or not I don't know, it's just the OP's word.

Also you have stated that I missed your point "these people should not be CRBed". The point you contradicted me on was that Virgin had drawn a line, not that these people should not be CRBed. If you reread your comment you'll see that you never mentioned "these people should not be CRBed".

As for the people being CRBed or not being CRBed. As I stated previously I would not be happy with someone with a recent conviction for unprovoked violence cold calling my home. Do seriously think that this is out of order??? Whether this involves a CRB or not, I don't care, I just don't want someone with a recent history of unprovoked violence visiting me in my own home with the intention of trying to get me to buy something from him. Your obsession with CRB is entirely irrelevant to me.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

the line i refer to is the one drawn by the law on this which if you read the links you will see

if you want people checked for convictions other than just asking them then the crb systemn is all there is in England and Wales. Scotland has a slightly diferent method

in fact the employer could be breaking the law in insisting these are done

see

http://www.paull-williamsons.co.uk/s...r_Employee.pdf

people seem to be expecting too much out of the system in what checks they think can be done on people looking for employment in these fields

if you are worried about them going into your house then don't let them in

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

The entire point of this thread is that _Virgin_ have not drawn a line on this. Why do keep repeating that some other body has drawn a line. I don't disagree but it is irrelevent because we are talking about Virgin drawing a line.

Virgin are not drawing a line so you have no way of knowing whether or not you should let them in to your house. Again, the is the entire point of this thread.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

virgin cant draw a line in real terms that's my point

as the law stands only certain prescribed jobs and those where the employee has substantial or unsupervised access to children or vulnerable adults can have their background checked for convictions !

what virgin can do and most likely do already is ask people on their application and even then just because some one has an unspent conviction doesn't mean that they should be denied a job

and its really none of the other employees business what convictions other employees have and virgin could get in trouble if it went around telling them about other employees pasts ( which is what the thread started on sort of ;) )

as to your bit about coming into your house that's a whole other thing for that you would need them to change the law but even then it wont make it much safer as CRB doesnt insure they are safe

personaly i would never let anyone unsupervised access to my house no matter what checks they had done to them

and my wife would never invite a salesman in with out me being there ( unless they looked like brad pit and i wasnt arround ;) lol )

see the advice given in these to stay safe :)

http://www.essex.police.uk/advice/v_you_02.php

http://www.sandiego.gov/police/preve...tyathome.shtml

which is good advice to give to any older relatives and to emphasise to children ( young adults ) left in charge of the house on thier own

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Got it, I see what you're saying.

The OP stated "British Gas, Eon, Scottish Power, Npower and Sky ensure that all of their staff have to complete background checking on individuals before they are allowed to visit customers.".

Is this not the case then?

Personally I find it a bit unnerving, but if there's nothing that Virgin can do then I suppose that's just the way it is.