Cable Forum - Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)

- Virgin Media Internet Service (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=12)

- - Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange) (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33638612)

AbyssUnderground

12-09-2008 19:29

Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Hello all,

After some ongoing problems with OVH servers, so many people were complaining to the providor about Virgin Media connections being slow to their datacenter, that they e-mailed Virgin Media and asked them if they would consider peering with LINX, the London Internet Exchange.

The following quotes are from "oles" aka "octave", the OVH manager. If anyone can get something done, its this guy.

http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=742&page=2

Quote:

Thanks. Email sent to ntli

Dear NTLI,
Your customer contact us before the connexion is slow.
I think you don't accept our prefix and you send us the
trafic thought transit upstream DTAG.

We have a peering on Linx, Amsix, Decix and Sfinx. The best
would be Linx I think.

Thanks in advance
Regards,
Octave

http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=733&page=6

Quote:

I've already send an email about it. We don't know why Virginmedia uses transit to reach Ovh and not peering. They seem to be full on DTAG transit. We aren't full on DTAG. They don't answer the emails. It's not "our side" network problem, but on Virgin side (they manage the outcoming trafic as we do, but we can't manage incoming traffic). If you have the NOC contacts or/and the phone number of virgin media NOC, it could help. If you have a looking glass from Virgin it could too, since I can check if I can change something to manage the incoming trafic ... It's more difficult but it can help.

http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=733&page=7

Quote:

got answser from virgin. peering is setup on my side. waiting for
the setup on virgin's side. then all problems are resolved http://forum.ovh.co.uk/images/smilies/smile.gif

This is great news for anyone who uses OVH servers but also better news because it means VM will be connected to LINX, and have access to peering networks we never had before. Remember that peering is free, so it does not cost VM anything to connect except the hardware to do so. It does mean however that VM will act as peering for other networks as well as using the other networks peerings themselves. Its all about sharing (a bit like p2p really!).

I hope this makes a huge difference to browsing in Europe as well as speeds to the Roubaix OVH Datacenter.

AbyssUnderground

14-09-2008 00:43

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

114 views and no replies or comments? Sheesh! :D

Graham M

14-09-2008 01:09

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Love the grammar and spelling in the email

joglynne

14-09-2008 01:17

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

I would have made a comment, honest, but I'm still Googling to try to understand what your post was about. :dunce:

I take it this is something that we should be happy about?

Maggy

14-09-2008 03:21

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground (Post 34637128)

114 views and no replies or comments? Sheesh! :D

Well better to have comments from the well informed surely? :confused:

smackheadz

14-09-2008 03:46

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 34637166)

I would have made a comment, honest, but I'm still Googling to try to understand what your post was about. :dunce:

I take it this is something that we should be happy about?

:dunce:me too :spin:

BenMcr

14-09-2008 04:10

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Virgin Media is and both ntl and telewest were members of LINX for many years

Ken Underwood

14-09-2008 05:17

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

well i think this is very interesting INDEED! I don't properly understand it either but if it speeds stuff up that can't be bad.

---------- Post added at 04:17 ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 ----------

Would this speed issue affect all communications using Virgin network?

|Kippa|

14-09-2008 05:42

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

I have an OVH server and could only ftp upload at roughly 70ksec to it, but can upload to other people at 90ksec. Does this mean that I'll be able to upload faster?

Tarantella

14-09-2008 06:59

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

If VM were ever to announce they were running a fibre optic cable from my socket direct to the battlenet servers in Europe I might raise an eyebrow in interest.

Ignitionnet

14-09-2008 11:56

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground (Post 34636587)

I think you're a bit confused about what LINX is.

LINX is a neutral peering point which ISPs, etc, connect to in order to trade traffic for free. ntl and Telewest were both connected to this for some time.

This does not mean that ntl and Telewest or any other member of LINX donate any bandwidth to other networks, it means that networks can be connected directly across the LINX switches without using an intermediate or transit provider. The connections on LINX are point to point and exist purely for ISPs to trade their own traffic. ISPs peer at LINX, apart from a peering with LINX's collectors for stats.

What's been done there is that OVH have set up a BGP peering session with Virgin Media, both were already at and connected to LINX but the configuration wasn't in place, and are awaiting Virgin doing the configuration on their side, then instead of traffic having to go through Virgin's saturated DTAG link to reach OVH it will just go across Virgin's connection to the LINX LAN and reach OVH directly.

This should resolve issues people are seeing with speeds, so long as Virgin's LINX connections aren't saturated of course ;)

Swift Diagram:

Before:

VM ---- DTAG routers and whatever else--- OVH

After

VM ---(LINX switches)--- OVH

Saves both VM and OVH a few quid / euros as well, not paying DTAG.

joglynne

14-09-2008 12:48

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Thanks for your post Broadbandings.

So, does this mean we could be cautiously optimistic about what could happen if Virgin Media take some action that they could have taken in the past but didn't?

If so why didn't Virgin Media do this before? Is it a costly procedure to do the necessary configuration ?

Ignitionnet

14-09-2008 12:53

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 34637304)

Virgin Media suck moose wang at setting up peerings in a timely fashion, they suck moose wang at managing their external connectivity generally.

To do the necessary config can be done in the time it takes to spend a penny.

joglynne

14-09-2008 15:26

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

In that case I guess it's advisable not to hold my breath then. :D

Ignitionnet

14-09-2008 17:23

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 34637355)

In that case I guess it's advisable not to hold my breath then. :D

Depends if you're trying to do a David Blaine or not.

AbyssUnderground

15-09-2008 01:41

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 34637304)

Yes, thanks for the response. My knowledge wasn't great in that area but you've set a lot straight. Still, its nice to know we might actually get better speeds and both companies might save money in the long run.

Anyway just thought it would be nice for people to know this info, since I know a fair few cableforum users have OVH servers.

Ignitionnet

15-09-2008 10:05

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground (Post 34637588)

Pleasure, thanks for posting the info. It's what forums like this one are for, sharing info and inviting comments from others.

Chris

15-09-2008 10:26

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings (Post 34637283)

OK ... thanks for that, we're about 80% of the way towards understanding what the OP was on about. Now, to complete the circle, would you mind spelling out some acronyms please:

LINX
OVH
DTAG

;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings (Post 34637306)

/wonders whether moose wang should be in the swear filter :shocked: :disturbd: :erm: :D

Ignitionnet

15-09-2008 10:43

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

LINX - London Internet Exchange - http://www.linx.net
OVH - No idea but a hosting company - http://www.ovh.co.uk
DTAG - Deutsche Telekom AG - German Telecom - http://www.telekom.com

By all means filter moose wang, whatever wang you might want to mention VM's peering and transit sucks it :D

AbyssUnderground

15-09-2008 13:23

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 34637648)

OK ... thanks for that, we're about 80% of the way towards understanding what the OP was on about.

Well I knew what I was on about :D

Ignitionnet

15-09-2008 14:03

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

I didn't have a clue what I was on about but it sounded good :)

Chrysalis

15-09-2008 17:51

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

didnt ntl (pre VM) have linx peering? I remember the old situation where the gigabit ports were constantly maxed and various isps on linx were trying to get ntl to upgrade to 10gigabit.

Ignitionnet

15-09-2008 17:53

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34637915)

didnt ntl (pre VM) have linx peering? I remember the old situation where the gigabit ports were constantly maxed and various isps on linx were trying to get ntl to upgrade to 10gigabit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 34637218)

Virgin Media is and both ntl and telewest were members of LINX for many years

dragon

16-09-2008 00:44

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham M (Post 34637159)

Love the grammar and spelling in the email

OVH are a French company and I believe English isn't Olly/octaves primary language. ;)

AbyssUnderground

16-09-2008 01:44

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon (Post 34638113)

OVH are a French company and I believe English isn't Olly/octaves primary language. ;)

Correct, Oles/Octave's primary language is French, but his English is improving I will admit. He never used to post on the UK forum because of his bad English but now he does. He often does better than the Google translations too!

superkey

16-09-2008 08:53

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

I think you'll find that VM has the highest number of interfaces at LINX - 5 of which are 10G so plenty of capacity. They also already have multiple peering sessions with OVH at Amsterdam, Paris and Frankfurt and have had those for a number of years.

Also just to clarify, DTAG are not a VM Transit providor but a 10G Peer and there's plenty of capacity on it :-)

Need to bear in mind that VM are still running two ASNs - 5462 and 5089. The prefixes behind 5462 are in the process of being moved onto 5089 which is supposed to be completing by the end of this year. The two ASNs don't neccesarily have the same peering sessions in the same locations.

Ignitionnet

16-09-2008 09:34

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Morning superkey, start of NMC shift? ;)

You might want to check regarding DTAG being a peer, they don't seem to know that they peer with VM looking at the communities that are set in the routes they hold for you guys, they list you as a transit customer.

Community: 3320:1826 3320:2010 3320:9010

3320:1826 Imported in Great Britain
3320:2010 Imported in Europe
3320:9010 Imported from a customer

As opposed to:

3320:9020 Imported from a peerr

Their mis-spelling not mine :)

I checked on 5462 as well - same thing, no sign of a peering with DTAG and as far as DTAG are concerned has been moved behind 5089.

If VM have multiple peerings with OVH they're either down or were broken by the AS migration, which is far from impossible when noting some of VM's internal routing has been broken by the AS migration. Be quite impressive to break a peering to the extent where you prefer a longer AS path but still from what I've seen 5462's external connectivity has also been largely moved behind 5089 even where it's the better paths.

Chris

16-09-2008 11:01

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by superkey (Post 34638186)

:welcome: to the forum, superkey, it's nice to have an expert voice around here in discussions like this.

Chrysalis

16-09-2008 12:11

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by superkey (Post 34638186)

ahh so they upgraded since then :)

superkey

16-09-2008 12:44

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings (Post 34638194)

I couldn't comment :-)

I think DT are probably that lowest of low type of peer - the paid private peer so technically VM are their customer but DT just advertise a partial table consisting of their own directly connected routes.

It may be a private peer policy 'thing' on the routing front which means DT advertised prefixes are being preferred over other sources of that same prefix, even where that source is another 'peer'

Best thing to do if the problem is still persisting would be for OVH to mail nmc@virginmedia.co.uk saying they are a public peer on 5089 and that it looks like VM are preferring the OVH pre-fixes being advertised by the DTAG paid/private peering session. It would be costing VM money to see the OVH trafic by DTAG so I'm sure they would be keen to see that traffic via the 'free' public peer with OVH.

Chrysalis

16-09-2008 13:50

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

I have seen weird routing myself with other isps.

eg. on ukonline (easynet) I was going to leaseweb via cogent, congestion galore on the route. It turned out easynet peer with AMS-IX directly (leaseweb also do), leaseweb noticed easynet had preferenced cogent so turned of cogent on the route for me and I now go over a congestion free direct peering link. Easynet didnt respond so I was lucky leaseweb were cooperative.

I expect traffic for leaseweb to ams-ix is free and cogent is not, hence them also keen to switch the routing.

Ciaran

08-11-2008 02:19

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Has there been any official word from VM to say that the link will go ahead?

AbyssUnderground

08-11-2008 02:28

Re: Virgin Media to possibly peer with LINX (London Internet Exchange)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran (Post 34671096)

Has there been any official word from VM to say that the link will go ahead?

Apparently its up to Virgin now but since the e-mails they have done nothing and VM - OVH traffic still uses DTAG (German provider) which is costing them a significant amount of money.

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:27.