Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Virgin Media no longer all alone.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ic-piracy.html

Britain's six largest internet service providers (ISPs) have agreed to send warning letters to hundreds of thousands of customers whose accounts are being used to download or share pirated songs.

The six internet companies are BT, BSkyB, Virgin Media, Orange, Tiscali and Carphone Warehouse, which sells broadband access under the AOL and Talk Talk brands.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Just a friendly note, remember that the thread discussing VM's agreement with the BPI ended up being locked.

Let's make sure that this one sticks to the point & doesn't drift into discussing the legality or otherwise of copyrighted filesharing.

Thanks...

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I wonder how much money these isp's are going to lose, when those who use p2p either leave for another isp, or downgrade to the slowest available speed.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

A lot less money than they would if the government legislated and there arn't many cheap alternatives to the ISP's listed.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

The six all the ones who have oversubscribed so its not thier fault its the customers.

who is Feargal Sharkey anyway.......some guy who wants to get back on tv, like all those clebs who are "has beens" so much for his song "Teenage kicks".

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Just someone who's been there and so knows the business I suppose. Perhaps a better representative or spokesman than someone who hasn't.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

What made Carphone Warehouse change their minds?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7329801.stm

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

arm twisting most likely

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I bet the BPI is about to come to some sort of agreement with them all over a legal download service in return for this. ;)

Either that or the BPI has been threatening to drag them into court

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

funny really how the BPI have big pockets for this when they claim the filesharing takes so much cash out of the artists pockets. Anyone see the irony of an organization worth billions spending millions to stop the loss probably an equal amount

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

As noted Here

It's not just about sending warning letters.

ISP's can now throttle any users who are caught out downloading music etc, or put data caps on them specifically, that's why talk talk has now agreed to it.

Good justification for VM's STM then :rolleyes:

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

He's spent much of his recent career spotting and encouraging new talent in various jobs in the record industry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feargal_Sharkey

Provided that it's illegal downloaders that are targeted I personally have no worries about this.I always thought it was inevitable that ISPs would be dragged into doing something even if it stopped short of what the BPI wanted.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Ah I see now people who get letters could be put on 24/7 STM. That is not good :(

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

And not just from VM.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

So all those who have just left Virgin to go to any of those six over the BPI letters are in for a shock ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Not really as we don't have STM to worry about so can merrily download other things to our hearts content :) - although I haven't gone to one of those who are signing up for this :D

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Will they still know what you are downloading if you using SSL encrypted connections to newsgroups?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

It's irrelavant to this topic which is about p2p and the BPI using ISP's to chase offendors sharing music.

So downloading on newsgroups is not on-topic

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

No.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Quote

"They have signed a memorandum of understanding which commits them to sending "informative letters" to customers whose accounts have been identified by the BPI as being used for filesharing."



Since when did VM start giving information to the BPI?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Thanks Maggy.

And do you know when will VM sign an agreement with representatives of the American Film and Software industries, Microsoft and everyone else with a vested interest? :angel:

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I thought that Virgin didn't actually give any information to the BPI, but just passed on the letters themselves without revealing the customer details?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

No idea!I personally don't have anyone on the inside at VM.;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Probably when threatened by government legislation instead if they don't (which is the main reason the six ISPs have done it)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

So its ok to sell, sell, sell bandwith get more customers upgrade 4 to 10, 10 to 20. and as what i would call a normal users (someone who has 10/20mb and just checks holiday sites and emails) dont need it, but we'll upgrade anyway,

This has fuel'd the downloaders, most of them had to leave thier pc on all night so with the upgrade they dont have to. the ISP's have created thier own bottleneck it has nothing to do with p2p. its the ISP's who gave the bandwith in the first place

All they want is somebody else they can use/blame other than themselves, a 3rd party and they have it now and it's been on the "BBC".

When will the ISP's have a "code of conduct" for the things that we need ie oversubscribing, UBR upgrades, and Hefty fines for mis-selling "Un-Limited.

And in the big picture "What is 20mb used for" ha ha i see the "20mb your all pirates" lol

Soon the "50mb SUPER PIRATE" will appear.....

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

That seems a bit off topic for this thread ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Yes I believe my fellow moderator pointed out that the other VM and BPI filesharing thread got closed because people would not stick to the topic or behave well.

So lets keep to topic please.:D

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

For clarification.

The BPI whichever method they use gets the IP/DATE and TIME of the person who they have confirmed is file sharing (probably from the P2P networks). They then pass on this information to the ISP's, The ISP's without divulging the users details to the BPI send the user the letters that have already been linked to in this thread.

The only way the BPI will ever get information from the ISP's is via a court case in which they'd have to ask a judge to order an ISP to divulge the information.

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

According to thinkbroadband.com http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3...agreement.html

The MPAA has also signed up the goverments 'Memorandum of Understanding' not just the BPI

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

As suggested by Kymmy, it’ll all come down to the method used. The BBC’s article is similar to the Telegraph’s. However, it’s different in emphasizing ‘suspected.’

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/23.png Net firms in music pirates deal

The deal, negotiated by the government, will see hundreds of thousands of letters sent to net users suspected of illegally sharing music. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/24.png

If hundreds of thousands of letters are to be sent out, the diligence afforded to each one is likely to be very low. The BPI could:

1. Connect to, and transfer enough data through, the connections belonging to each of those hundreds of thousands of subscribers, to ensure their evidence is of a sufficient level; or,
2. Hoover up all the IP addresses that have been submitted to trackers, without testing the accuracy of those addresses.

If we’re into the hundreds of thousands of subscribers, I’d have to assume it’s number two. As has been mentioned here before, the paper Why My Printer Received a DMCA Takedown Notice explains why this methodology is unsound.

If one of those letters turns up on my doormat, copies are going to be sent to both Virgin Media and the BPI with a covering letter demanding a retraction. It would seem more sensible to send out a general letter to every subscriber. Even if the ‘informative letter’ lacks the claim of a specific infringement that previous letters have had, limiting a letter’s distribution would make it an implied accusation.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

So, has anyone on here received any of these letters from VM then? If so, does it give details of what you're supposed to have been guilty of sharing?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

exactly, the BPI are doing nothing that me or you can't do, you start a torrent up, look at the IP addresses and then you *can* contact the ISP the IP belongs to and tell them what a user was downloading, the ISP then yells at the user. ISPs have been sending these letters out for years.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

A few things that bother me with all this, even if everyone said ok this is a fantastic idea let's pay a fee and carry on with merry downloading till your heart is content.
This is the BPI who is making some money out of this, how long is it going to be before the movie, and software, and games industry jump on this bandwagon? Everyone is going to be wanting to make you have a license.

They should not expect people to pay more for crap they wouldnt pay for to begin with, that would be like a top premier league team being religated, and then charging more for tickets next season cos they cant afford to lose the money.

Secondly they are targetting "file sharers" if my understanding is correct? What's to stop everyone jumping over on to newsgroups where you dont have to "share" anything, and tell the bpi, isps go stick it where the sun dont shine. (and no i dont mean Scotland lol)

Also with news providers such as Giganews which offer ssl, surely then if you got a letter, you could bring a case against your ISP for breaching your privacy?

Forcing people into something they dont like or don't want to do, will only make them all rebel.

to: The Government, BPI - as max and paddy once said in an episode, If you play with feathers, you gonna get your arse tickled :D.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I think ISPs and the BPI could be paying a few peoples houses off by the time this is over

If I get one of these letters they can expect to find themselves in court and I will ;). Easy money

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

The original letters that came in envelopes threatening disconnection did include allegations of specific infringements. Example copies are on The Register website. There are links to them in the article Virgin Media and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing. I’ve not seen anything that suggests what the letters for the new carpet-bombing approach will contain.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Does this affect http downloads using SSL?

How about Rapidshare and Megaupload?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

As with the NEWSGROUPS comment it isn't really rellavant as truthfully no-one knows what method the BPI is using...

BUT.. it is likely that P2P applications (i.e..anything that shares a file from your own storage via your own connection) is probably the source of the IP's that the BPI are passing to the ISP's.

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

There might be a knock-on effect to Usenet, since ISP's might be more pro-active towards complaints against uploaders but directly this will probably only affect public P2P where your ip is visible to all downloaders, Gnutella which includes Limewire and Bearshare probably being the most prolific at the moment. If you see those installed on your kids computer and you get a letter then you know why.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

That's the thing, the emphasis is on sharers and not downloaders, usenet I think will be safe for the time being...

Though the BBC news report on this subject at midday did keep saying "DOWNLOADING" but I think that's more ignorance on thier part.

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

thinkbroadband.com have a response from Be broadband for all those interested

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3...e-sharing.html

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

this would only be vaguely usefull if it happened 8 years ago..

ive yet to read/listen to anyone who actually has a clue how it all works on the tv or radio.

also if you do get a letter thats your fault for not being super sneaky and covering all your bases.

oh and remember its illegal!

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

you've been watching the news then................




SEARCH.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

so i'll be around 7ish at your house to take the keys to your house, i mean i wouldn't pay for your house but...

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

And in my opinion will be the next step.

However i can also see the BPI offering money to VM in return for that data as people's data will be sold by VM to anyone for advertising shortly anyway. Its a logical step on the road to our ISP selling us down the road.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

They can't, VM can't give or sell personal data to the BPI, even Phorm won;t know the names and addresses of the connections it profiles..

If VM or any ISP did so then they'd be in more trouble than any file sharer

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Erm, isn't this what the other six ISPs are doing (in principle)
From the link -
"Where a content owner (like a record label or a games company) approaches Be and requests the details of a member because of an alleged copyright infringement we will not supply this information direct to the requester unless they have a Court Order. To keep members informed of what’s going on in most circumstances we will try to contact the member in question to make them aware that we have had a request from the rights holder."

From the OP Telegraph link
"The six internet companies are BT, BSkyB, Virgin Media, Orange, Tiscali and Carphone Warehouse, which sells broadband access under the AOL and Talk Talk brands.
They have signed a memorandum of understanding which commits them to sending "informative letters" to customers whose accounts have been identified by the BPI as being used for filesharing."

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

With the problem VM have with cloned modems on their network what's the situation going to be for the customer's who have had their modem cloned would they get these warning letters when they have not used illegal file sharing?.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I have asked the same question, However Virgin will never admit that cloned modems exist. As far as i understand it, Yes they would because when VM check the IP it will be logged against a Mac address. That mac address will be tagged to a users account. If the person doing the letter sending does not check for duplicate or more mac address on various DHCP servers then potentially the owner of that mac address will receive the letter while the **** bag cloner gets nothing done to him.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

tbh any ISP has always sent on warning letters, if they don't they'll come under legal attack from the copyright holders, AOL were doing it years ago. All the BPI are doing is requesting something concrete that requires ISPs to warn their users and do something about the problem, which imo is fine and much better than starting legal procedings against users like the RIAA etc.

a question to those complaining about, you make a piece of software or a web site design and host it on your site for free. some person comes along, realises it's good, downloads it, makes a site and starts selling it. now i bet most of you will want that site taking down as that guy is making money out of you and i bet you'd be rather ****ed off if the ISP turned around and said 'meh, we'll ask them to take it down'

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

So, they are just going to send letters but because there is so much doubt (cloned modems, dodgy evidence etc) there will be no legal action or "three strikes" or anything like that?

Seems pointless, just a waste of paper, designed to shut the government and BPI up.

The idea of a levy sounds better, although £30/year for music is a bit much as I don't spend anything like that much on music anyway. How would I decide which bands it goes to or would I still have to buy their actual CDs to support them?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I smell BS here...
I party (that news article) stating that all these ISP's have signed up, yet there are a few ISP's who have categorically stated they will not do this, so i wish to know which side is telling the porkies and would love to see that lying side in court!!

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Apparently there will be a three strike rule in place. Firstly, they will send out letters, next is a suspension of your account, until you agree in writing not to "re-offend", and lastly, your account will be terminated.

Just for the sake of argument, there are 6 million file sharers in the UK, so that 1 million for every ISP. Say 10% of those file sharers (the figure will probably be higher) dont stop sharing files, are the ISP's really going to terminate 100,000 accounts each? I think not. I suspect that there is something else in the pipleline which will make sharing music, movies, TV shows, etc... legal. Whether its the ISP's getting together and developing their own file sharing network, or an yearly fee levied on each account, we dont know, but something must be being developed. If it isnt, then the ISP's have become the bitches of the BPI.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

All the stuff I read says specifically that there will NOT be a three strikes rule, or any enforcement at all. Just threatening letters.

I wonder what you are supposed to do if you get one by mistake - just ignore it? If you have to write to them every time and explain, you had better hope no-one cloned your modem...

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I read about it on the Guardian website http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...lmedia.piracy1

"The first step is a letter, "intended to be educational" to an internet user about the "account abuse", the second a suspension of the account until the customers agrees in writing not to offend again, and the final step is cancelling an account."

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

BPI scaremongering I think:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ompromise.html

"Note what's missing from the deal: a three-strikes rule. In fact, the deal contains no enforcement mechanisms of any kind."

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Re: cloned modems.

The BPI collects IP addresses not MAC addresses so that completely negates the possibility a customer being warned/advised due to someone else using the same mac addy on a cloned modem. Pity because it might of pushed VM to do even more about the cloning problem if they had thousands of irate customers suing them.

I suppose the conclusion might be reached by a lot of people who are tier hopping, i.e. paying for the lowest tier and using a cloned modem for 20meg to cancel the subscription altogether due to worries about the BPI.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

As far as I know, cloned modem = cloned IP address.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

No, this can't be true. The cloned modem must have to pick up its IP address just like a legit one.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

So would anybody pay £30 per year for legal downloads?

I would if the catalogue was huge & not limited to artists the industry wanted to promote to death...

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Personally I don't tend to listen to anything but radio stations, whether that be on my mobile, via my internet media player or on the PC so no to that question.

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Yes, I would too... as long as it really was 'unlimited', but ISPs don't have a great track record with that term!

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

only one modem can have a certain IP address so a cloned modem gets a different one.

although the BPI sends an IP address, how do VM convert the IP address to a customer? First they'd need to check the dhcp records which no doubt would match to a MAC address, they then check who has the MAC address on their account.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Surely though they'll be a register of two IP's for that MAC address and this would be flagged up on VM's system putting in doubt that the account holder is the culprit.

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

No, why? because i dont want low bitrate 192Kbit/s mp3s, i dont want DRM and i still will not just buy an album/track without hearing them first.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

So when a ip is given to virginmedia and they then look on the ubr what do you think they check that ip address against. Answers on a postcard to

The mac address.

on the DHCP

Linked to the account database

Your address



And before you ask :-

I have worked in the past on Cable modem infrastructure and ADSL infrastructure. Then i got better and left.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:10 ----------

But it depends on how busy the person looking into each account is. If that person cannot be arsed to check each DHCP server for Each of the areas that mac is in then some poor unfortunate will get a letter.

If VM could check that easily, Would you not think they would be able to stop the clones in the first place.

The fact of the matter is someone WILL get a letter even when they have not been using P2P but the **** bag who has cloned there modem and IS using P2P will not.

It kinda makes a mockery of all this.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Ah, but they don't have to be fixed bitrate mp3s, vbr mp3s or flac's a possibility.

You can hear music without buying it, try the radio... ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I'm probably missing something here, but are you sure about that?

An IP address is mapped to a particular host (for example mine is xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx.cable.ubr05.craw.blueyonder.co.uk). Wouldn't Virgin just look on that UBR, and not the one where the cloned modem was (assuming I was doing the downloading)?

I can see that if no regard was given to the MAC address/UBR comination then a letter might be sent to the wrong person, but wouldn't this be fairly easy to refute (and flag up the existence of a clone on a particular UBR)?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Exactly, the only way cloned MAC addresses work is that they run on a different UBR to the authentic one. Which means they would have to be assigned a different IP address

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Music i like isn't played on the radio, i find alot of mainstream stuff complete carp.

Yea, could you imagine a service which actually knows how to encode mp3s properly to V0/V1/V2 VBR mp3s? wouldnt matter, flacs? not a chance.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Well, I'd hardly call everything on this list or this mainstream. ;)

And that's just Radio 1...

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Dont like any of that.

I'm picky with music, i'm more into classical rock, rock (some, not much newer stuff), country (laugh and i hit you :p:) classical (for relaxation purposes), j-pop/j-rock, infact i listen to whatever suits my mood.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Yee Hah! ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I think the only concern I have with this at the moment, is if my MAC address has been cloned and the scally that is using it is downloading and uploading GB's of copyright material. I don't, and never will use P2P programs, they're a magnet for trojans and virus's.

I just remembered, I won't be with Virgin for much longer, I'm being disconnected on the 16th of August. :dozey:

---------- Post added at 23:25 ---------- Previous post was at 23:18 ----------

Have you tried Screamer? http://www.screamer-radio.com/

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Or last.fm?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

My wife is also very into Country,and I'm an old classic rocker. My needs are catered for to a very limited degree, but hers not at all. Internet radio is the only way we can both fill our boots with as much of our favourite sounds as we can manage (Pinnacle Home Music thingy).

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I think we are getting away from the topic myself but at least it's uncontentious stuff. :)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa9mNistHSs

is all i'm gonna say ;):p:

Edit : youtube video i wanna link to u cant view in the UK lol.

---------- Post added at 00:05 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

Yep, very hard to find this sort of music in high quality and i'm not willing to pay for it drm'd to the hilt and in low quality!

Nice to see another country listener :) old rock is great, stuff they put out today is terrible, it's no wonder people just download it instead! :D

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Back on topic please guys

---------- Post added at 08:36 ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 ----------

Perhaps then the emphasis (on VM as ADSL doesn't have this problem) should be for the ISP to first confirm that the person they're sending out the letters too are the account holders of the account used for file sharing. For gawd sake if they worked out how to do that they'd not only get the BPI off thier backs but also the cloners off thier networks... Perhaps a centralised DHCP bank is in order???

I know that the original letters did say about disconnection, these were altered after the initial news reports to be a general educational/guide as to someone on your account may be file sharing and were not a definative accusation like the original.

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Which is again off-topic, the amounts that retailers are earning through online sales is another subject entirely. This topic is about the BPI and ISP's in relation to file sharing.

There will be no more warnings guys and all future off-topic posts may be deleted

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

did anyone see the 2 women the bbc had on talking about this yesterday evening?
a mother and daughter team..
possibly the worst people to try and justify stealing music and movies.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

There's no justification stealing/copyright infringing (please lets not have the downloading is not stealing arguement as that's what closed the last thread) any movies/music at all......

But thousands do it and will do it probably after the BPI take action and force ISP's to stop them. Using current methods though all it's going to do is to increase the shares in companies offering anonymous proxies ;)

As far as mother/daughter they're probably the only people that the BBC could get to go on-air and say that there is justification downloading..

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

check out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00cp44t

skip to 20 mins into it
the family is at 21 mins but its worth watching the whole thing as the tech expert at the bbc is a bit of a fool

such classics as:
and my fav

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

tbh, the "its not harming anyone" is true in a lot of cases, there a few people who download stuff,

1, those who'll download it regardless and never pay for anything
2, those who download stuff they think isn't worth the price
3, those who download to try

in 2 / 3 there are no lost sales so no harm done, people in number 1 don't make any sales so no losses there either

on the customers side, you buy a game/album/whatever, take it home, realise it's complete ***** and go to take it back and get a refund, you can't so you're stuck with something you don't want

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Doesn't the same argument apply the purchase of books and magazines?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Correct, also as far as games/movies there's enough trailers, demos, reviews around to totally nul that arguement.

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

trailers + demos are designed to show the best side of something
i can spend a few mins on the apple trailers site and point out some awesome trailers for films that generally suck :)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Then simply wait for them to come out on free TV.....as it's still no justification for downloading.

BUT then again the BPI aren't curently going after downloaders but the actual file sharers... (I know in P2P the downloader becomes a file sharer but again that's no justification)

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

well for games, demos are usually ok but also come out after the actual game, trailers for games are pointless as bad gameplay can make a game worthless (<insert ea sports game here>)

for movies, as said trailers they show the best bits and if the trailer shows all the best bits then the rest of the movie would be crap and pointless to go and pay for. i can't remember the last time i paid to watch or movie (or even downloaded one) they all end up following a generic plot which is usually obvious and boring.

waiting for movies to come onto tv to become free - what difference does it make if someone downloads it then, they still got it for free and the movie company makes neither more or less money.

what about downloading tv episodes? if you miss it on tv for free, why should you be forced to pay for a dvd to watch it in a few years?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

fyi: i am not justifying stealing anything
its just simple you cant stop it

in 10 years time this will all be forgotten as we move to a large scale media on demand network over the internet no one will have any hard copies anymore.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

In reality they can stop it as the technology is there and is being used by the goverment, but it would mean the ISP's inspecting your data and using this to determined any illegal downloads, even SSL won't get past DPI as only the content in encrypted and not the location/address...

But as our legal framework stands no ISP is allowed to do that though if the BPI do make a stand any legal victory by them will take the ISP's a step closer :(

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

If I have got this right this is actually quite a fair deal, all they are doing is sending letters to suspected file-sharers and agreeing to a set of meetings to work out what to do with heavy uploaders.

No mention of the 3-strike deal or anything like that.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Correct, but you know the BPI, give them an inch and they'll expect the whole mile :(

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

What, like illegal downloaders? :D




<only joking> ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

It's like any organisation that's losing PROFIT through a 3rd party activity... The BPI won't be appeased by the named ISP's sending out these letters, they'll then push for stricter guidelines and especially details of people that they can prosecute. Where in the end do they stop? Surely after P2P is cleaned up then they'll approach usenet providers for details of the posters IPs????

I know such thoughts go against privacy laws but when has privacy laws ever dominated over legal wrongdoers :(

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

The government are foolish if they beleive this will stop any of the more knowlegeable downloaders. Whatever technology they develop will soon be out-smarted by the clever peeps on the net. I will continue to download torrent legal or otherwise. Where there is a will there is a way and this latest wheeze from the suits high up in the governent or the anti-piracy brigade wont have a noticeable difference. It may scare your average joe into stopping but it certainly dosnt wash with me.

Sorry if my views are not to your liking but thats the way it is :)

Impz

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

The goverment aren't involved with the BPI/ISP collaberation, in fact the goverments privacy laws are probably the only thing stopping them.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

indeed they cant stop it
all they can stop are the fools that probably think limewire and bearshare are the best things on the web..

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Limeware is an obvious example of what not to use. Newsgroups with SSL is the obvious choice for the smarter people !

Impz