Originally Posted by Osem (Post 34573612)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7449845.stm

Quite astonishing!! :mad:

Originally Posted by Incognitas (Post 34573614)

Well it's no longer astonishing because it's become commonplace sadly.:mad:

I'm wondering just how much/many sensitive documents are wondering around the country and beyond in the company of forgetful civil and military personnel?:rolleyes:

Has no one bothered to tighten up security anywhere at all?How can someone just walk out of their workplace with such documents without any checks being made? :confused:

Originally Posted by Incognitas (Post 34573614)

How can someone just walk out of their workplace with such documents without any checks being made? :confused:

Originally Posted by Escapee (Post 34574081)

Easy, if you are cleared at the appropriate level there is nothing to stop you copying data to a memory stick. The vast majority of employees in government/defence jobs are cleared to at least Restricted level, with many cleared to Secret Level.

The official secrets act, List X status, ITAR and company policy means action could be taken if an employee was negligent, this would be likely to happen in a private company but when the government is the employer there appears to be no action taken.

Originally Posted by The BBC

An unnamed Cabinet Office employee was suspended after the documents were left on a train seat and handed to the BBC.
Mr Miliband said the official was not authorised to remove the files from government premises, but national security did not seem to be "at risk".

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 34573612)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7449845.stm

Quite astonishing!! :mad:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 34574126)

Sadly that's true but I find it astonishing that, given what's been happening over the last year or two, this sort of thing is still going on! You'd have thought they'd have learned something from past experiences .......

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 34574316)

Perhaps we should ask why they are taking vital documents home, might it have some thing to do with staffing levels and not having enough time in the day to complete their work?

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34574324)

Have things changed that much in the civil service since I last worked with them in '97?
Do they now kick everyone out at 4:30pm, stopping people staying late to finish working on those TOP SECRET documents?

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 34574328)

In which case why are they taking them home, which was the point I was making, there seems to be a lot of tut tuting in this thread without actually asking why this keeps happening

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34574335)

They should not be, pure and simple.
Yes I've seen top secret documents strewn across desks while the occupant has been elsewhere, but everyone with access to that area had top secret access anyway so in theory were as trustworthy as the person who required the documents.

Originally Posted by Escapee (Post 34574386)

Documents Restricted or Secret must not be left out on desks whilst unattended, the reason is that Escorted visitors may not have the required level of clearance to view those documents.

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter (Post 34574587)

Exactly, that's the most worrying part: this person was actually authorised to take hard copies of Top Secret protectively marked documents out of the office.[...]

Originally Posted by Raistlin (Post 34574609)

I'll think you will find that they were most certainly NOT authorised to take that particular document out of the office. Their authorisation will have extended only as far as to grant them access to it and to retain it (in an appropriately secured container/location).

I wouldn't want to try to pre-empt the outcome of any investigation, but I would be quite happy at this stage to guess that the decision to remove that document from its appropriately secure environment was most likely down to the individual and would almost certainly not have been authorised.

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34574422)

Escorted visitors should never be left alone in the first place. I know I never was until my full pass arrived.

True, but some of these pesky visitors have a habit of wandering or seeing things they shouldn't.

Difficult to work on a document if it's locked away ;)

You know I meant locked away when away from your desk, when we have had visitors in my previous employment all restricted documents had to be put out of sight.

We have software at work which prevents unauthorised access to the USB ports.
If people want files transferred they have to submit a request and we do it for them.

That would be a bit difficult for our IT department, because I wouldn't give them the administrator password to enable them access to the system. As design authority I am currently the only person in the UK with authorisation to use the password. The data I move from these systems is not restricted nor is it any use to anyone else.

I could just imagine how efficient it would be asking the IT department x amount of times a day when I need to put data on a memory stick. I had that fiasco in my last employment, I played their little game until they got fed up with visiting me a dozen times a day. In the end they just gave me the required access rights, it's all about balancing security against common sense.

Exactly, think about how people are going to use the system, and built the security around that to ensure no breaches.
As you've demonstrated, simply telling someone not to do something isn't good enough, you have to prevent them from doing it.

Originally Posted by Raistlin (Post 34574741)

And that's the problem.

In all walks of life you generally find that the more senior people are the less they think the rules and regulations apply to them. It's also the case that fewer people are prepared to stand up and challenge them about it as well!

As for the 'encrypted electronic' v 'paper' debate. It is my suspicion that paper files of this type (although this incident may suggest the contrary) are traditionally easier to account for, store, and control, than electronic copies.

Originally Posted by The BBC

More confidential government files have been found left on a train.
The Independent on Sunday says it was handed the documents, which cover fighting global terrorist funding, drugs trafficking and money laundering.
The files, which relate to a meeting of financial crime experts to be held this week, were found on a train bound for London's Waterloo station on Wednesday.

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler (Post 34575562)

And again... :rolleyes:



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