Gays can healed through counselling
 

or so a Unionist MLA (Virus Robinson) in the north of Ireland thinks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7443323.stm

If its true, then maybe its something we could export?

Anyway, on a serious note, would she still be in post if she was an english MP?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I'd like to think she wouldn't have been elected in the first place. What party would she stand for?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I wouldn't think any party in England would want this bigot as an MP, thankfully in mainstream politics in England bigotry like this wouldn't be tolerated anymore. In all honesty though would anyone expect anything different from the DUP, I expect her views are prominent in this party.:td:

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

She's the wife of the Northern Ireland First Minister and a Westminster MP, so fairly prominent, I should say.

Over here she'd be anathema to Labour and the Liberals, the Tories have enough gay men in prominent places (Alan Duncan, Iain Dale, Richard Barnes*, Sir Simon Milton** off the top of the my head without thinking too hard) for it to be highly embarrassing. The Greens? Can't see it.

The BNP might like her, of course.

* One of the many Deputy Mayors Of London littering the place these days
** Leader of Westminster City Council and Boris Johnson's planning adviser

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Its the DUP what do you expect from that lot. I remember not too long a ago Pasiley Jr coming out with some sort of tripe as well

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

"John O'Doherty, a member of the South Belfast District Policing Partnership, said he has complained to police."

While you don't have to agree with her opinion she has a right to it and personally i thought it was refreshing to see a politician actually say what they feel rather then what the party says wish we could have more of them.


"People like Mrs Robinson need to learn that their comments have consequences," he said."

Hmm so do you matey like if people can't express views then freedom of speech is a complete waste of time and will be a dark day for this country if it is ever totally done away with as opposed to the heavy limiting we have now. This woman has only said what a hell of a lot of religious people think and therefore in a way albeit slightly twisted she has represented the people which is her job. While it will never happen i would rather all views no matter what they are be expressed and discussed then have a system where people hide what they feel because it is not seen to be polite or nice. Always hear about how some people are ignorant well if they can't say how they really feel how are they to ever overcome that ignorance.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

She should be making the comments so people know not to vote for her next time. Assuming they don't agree with the sentiment.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I thought that they would move on when the big reverend went.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/68.jpg

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Trouble is Downquark in this country in this day and age your be a complete idiot to come out and say you agree with her so we will never know how many she speaks for. Thats why i said i would prefer all views be allowed at least then you know what your dealing with.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

They have, Orior, the Robinsons are dragging them kicking and screaming into the fourteenth century...

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Dont agree with her at all, but she has every right to her opinion.We would be much better off if more polititions said what they think instead of being so "right on" and Politically Correct.At least we would find out before we vote for them.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

What, like Ken Livingstone?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I thought that was my point. the next election result will be more telling.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

They'd probably just refuse to answer any questions about it.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Yes BB like Ken Livingstone like anyone but very few do except for slip ups as they are so media minded.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

they are good at dishing out tripe pete.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I wonder if the power of healing extends as far as curing bigoted idiots....

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7444565.stm Peter Robinson comes to her defence :rolleyes:

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

The age old cry of the oppressor, "I'm defending the word of god", another example, if we need it, to show these manic religious nuts should have no place in power, hopefully the electorate will remember her comments next time shes up for re-election.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I wonder what a government minister responsible for faith matters would have to say on this matter as some want in another thread. This woman whatever your personal view of her is expressing views that she and a lot of other people in many faiths have so can she really be condemned. It is this sort of thing for me that is the perfect example of not mixing politics and religion, though it could be said religion and politics are more closely linked then some of us think as one is based on fairy tales and the other based on telling fairy tales to the electorate.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

interesting...that means all straights can also be healed of their straightness....works both ways...'

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

As you say Rizzy a perfect example of why politics and religion should be kept apart, if this woman can't separate real life from her, imo, bigoted beliefs she should stand down. It always strikes me as odd that these fringe nutters get so worked up about sex, from what I remember and have been told the Bible doesn't spend a lot of time or effort banging on about gay sex, it appears to be a subject all extreme religious headbangers are infatuated with....I wonder why.?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Hubby has come to the rescue...

http://www.irishnews.com/webimages/20080611/ianknox.jpg

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Religion isn't just a passing interest, like football or fashion. It is something which engulfs your life, it is your reason d'etre. It also forms the basis of your moral code and how you see the world.

I'm not sticking up for her or saying I agree with her views but saying religion and politics should be kept apart is pointless and impractical. The only way to do so would be to ensure no politicians practises any religious belief. Whereas I'm that would be wonderful to some of you, just think how unfair it would be on the millions of people who have faith in their lives, having no-one at all in the government to represent us.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Heterophobia is a much deeper rooted illness then homophobia.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

erm, I have no fear, aversion, or practice discrimination against or of straights (nor does anyone I know)



or gays



or bi's (mind you, they're just greedy)

May I ask you to elaborate on your proposition?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Well thats as maybe, however I believe you would be a very rare case if thats your sexuality as in my personal experience I have not met any that dont suffer the illness of heterophobia, however you could also simply be living in denial.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I think you need to explain a little more about what you mean by that comment??

- do you mean gay people who are scared/find difficulty dealing with 'straights' , for example??

Just as a general comment on the thread title, did anyone think to ask whether any gay people actually wanted to be 'cured' ?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Just for the public record, the Government relied on this bunch of medievalist clowns to get their damn 'terror' bill through tonight. They'd rather work with the DUP than their own left-wing, which tells you all you need to know about where Labour sits in today's political spectrum.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

The only simple way to answer this is you should not look at the illness' themselves as such but the sources and compare those as its there that the key differences lie.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

If I was gay (good as you) and had her as my MP I would have steam venting from my head! :mad:

If the title of this thread is true then counselling could turn me Gay.

How did this woman became an MP? :td:

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

It's N.Ireland we have far to many muppet MPs. MP over here should be changed to Muppet Person for that lot :)

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Without wanting to start anything that will get me flamed I think whilst she is using it for the wrong reasons there is something in what she is saying.

If the natural order of things is that the opposite sex get together for 'hows your father' in order to have off spring.

There has to be something that changes somewhere in the make-up of a person that makes them desire their own sex, somewhere there has to a very basic part of them that is still working as they still have sexual urges.

What I'm trying to say is there will be a gay bloke and and a straight bloke but between these extremes there has to many in the middle and for those people counselling may be able to get to the bottom of which way they truly feel. I'm betting that some guys have a few odd thoughts about other guys and then this escalates into them believing they are gay and going with the flow and at some stage they will start to play down any urges for women.

And again without trying to be flamed just running with a thought. If the natural order of things is same sex there has to be something that makes it that way. If a person is gay then there has to me some change from the norm either physically (DNA) or mentally. In which case it is possible to change a gay person into a straight person. (whether we are capable or morally justified is another topic of debate).

I sometimes feel that this sort of debate doesn't get the proper attention in the crazy pc world we live in now as there will always be people like the bnp that would latch onto it and try use it to justify their ludicrous behavior.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

And this is wrong *how*?

I don't understand this comment at all. What's PC about one of our elected representatives being a homophobic bigot? Please explain?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Going back to the original post I suppose I'd better tell my GF that I can be cured then kick her out of the house.....

.

.

.

.

.

Oh...It's her house!!!

Kymmy

---------- Post added at 11:01 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

So the thousands of creatures and plants on this planet that can reproduce asexually are against the rules of nature???


Kymmy ;)

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Perhaps I should not have entered into this discussion I was just trying to add a different perspective.

@ Kymmy - Humans do not reproduce asexually ;)

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Unfortunately there is only one perspective that carries any weight in todays society, and thats the perspective of the alleged minority who all to often portray themselves as a victimised community in general. There is also only one perspective once certain people have developed their mind set.

The reality is in this case as in many others the shoe is perhaps on the other foot and it is the majority being victimised in more ways than one by the minority, and sometimes the methods of victimisation used is perhaps some of the worst to such an extent most civil human beings would not wish it upon their worst enemies.

---------- Post added at 12:14 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

Of course you can allways trust the bbc to be absolutely unbias in such matters.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...cle3782984.ece


Talk about lets twist a story round to suit an agenda, she should sue the bbc for gross misrepresentation.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Surely alienating gays will just encourage this? Since anyone to thought he was gay would then be less encouraged to "return"

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

As you never mentioned that you were talking purely about people I presumed that your "against natural order" comment was aimed at all life in general of which humans are part of.

Kymmy ;)

PS...I'm a great believer that everyone in the world is different, everyone has a view and everyone can be both right and wrong in everyone elses eyes....

In the end laws, rules, etiquette, social norms is only a majority thought and not a unaminous decision.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Well apart from the afore mentioned 'muppet MP's' who allegedly are still human anyway the entire thread to the post you originally quoted refers to nothing but humanity of differeng opinion regarding sexual orientation, yours were the first to try to bring into the equation any correlation to other beings of any description.

I will just let others derrive their own conclusions at why one should try to take advantage of a situation and contort the context of anothers post simply because they lacked a certain specific term of referal within the contents of their chosen words when it would be obvious to most what was actually being refered to.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Kymmy I take exception to your statement: Men!! what do they know?? We know how to poke fires with big sticks to name but one thing. :p:

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

So for stating a simple fact based on that sexual reproduction doesn't always mean that there always has to be opposite members of sex (this is also now thanks to science true for humans) I get slated...

Nice way to show tolerance for other views :) ;) :p:

Kymmy

PS @ Goldoni :) You'll see that my "Men!! what do they know??" is actually a question and not a statement ;) :p:

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Sex is (when done properly) enjoyable, doing things you enjoy is natural, whether that's sex with men, women, or both.
Sex is not just for reproduction, if it was we'd only do it when the "season" was right, and it wouldn't need to be as enjoyable.
If that were the case, then there may be an argument for "hetrosexual copulation is the natural way" but as it clearly isn't the case, the only thing that can be said to be natural is that sex should be enjoyable.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

So, let me get this right, if we can't see any bias it's because our mind set has become fixed? And you, obviously, have such an open mind on the subject that only you can see we have been brain-washed.

Hard argument to counter.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it appears that you are as familiar with logical thinking as a rainbow trout is with knitting (imho). ;)

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

If you like that one foreverwar this one will blow your mind, post 45.:nutter:


http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...on-page-5.html

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

So whats the problem? Most would support the view that we live in a democracy and therefore she is perfectly entitled to express her views. Lets not get alluppity just because she is commenting on homosexuality. I isnt some kind of holy Grail that cannot attract dissent.

Let her speak and people will either support her or not.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Whatever happened to the "Incitment to Hatred" act?

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/hmso/piha1970.htm

What Virus, whoops, sorry, Irish, whoops, sorry, Iris said trigger more gay beatings this weekend.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I dont think she was inciting hatred and further ,the act is a farce and should have never reached the statute book. Hatred is felt in peoples' hearts and minds. It cannot be put there unless they are predisposed to it.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Please when it comes to human emotions and personal opinion even that which is based on science the human race is about as far from a logically minded race as it could possibly get, hence why its very easy for it to have a bias in an opinion that which is not bias in the eyes of the beholder.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Don't know if this letter has actually been sent to Iris or is just doing the rounds on an email circuit


Dear Iris…



THANK you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them. My important Biblically-based questions are listed below the fold. I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.



1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to the Irish, but not English people. Can you clarify? Why can't I own some Englishmen?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?



3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is: my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wriggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,


Maria

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Thats why there are atheists because religion makes so much more sense then science :D. As we have seen recently if you want common sense a bit of reality the church is the place to be :rolleyes:.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

That is brill Fingy :)

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Oh you will burn in,,,,,,,, :D :D :D :rofl: Together we stand. it's been around for some time and I saved it to my hdd but can't find it so will be saving it again. Well found

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Excellent post Fingy, if this awful woman is only quoting and defending gods law, why is she being so selective?
Why isn't she defending all gods laws, surly as a mere mortal she isn't picking and choosing laws which shes feels are only relevant to her in the 21st century.
A superb example from fingy why these bigots are so damn divisive and hypocritical... I suggest you make amends to your god Mrs Robinson, it looks like your going to be burning a lot of bull...but by the sounds of it your used to dealing in bull.:)

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Apparently it was this that the key portion of the show that was reported to the police as a hate crime was the following:
So from this while she may be putting it out initially on a religous standpoint I am absolutely not religous in that sense yet I concur almost identically with the sentiments, perhaps she is only putting it out under the guise of religion in order to protect some people, how ever you should really be careful what you report to the police. To me those sentiments derive from some one who either knows a person or persons who have been, or has been themselves subjected to varying levels of sexual harrasment from one or more people of the same sex perhaps over a period of time. If that is the case then you cannot deny she is perfectly entitled to carry that opinion as would be anyone be entitled to carry similar opinions who has been subjected to this kind of crime or know varying friends who have suffered in that way.

It is for this reason and this reason alone that out comes the bigot card, not because the opinion is actually wrong but in defence of that community in general because without doing so they become on a wider basis a very vulnerable community.

A bigot can only be a bigot when they have no foundation for their own views and opinions and show a total lack of respect for others opinions. Until both this criteria is met they are not a bigot.

Now to open the eyes of those who have been fortunate enough to never have suffered such forms of harrasment at a sufficent level that it was unacceptable and anyone else who cares to learn from it.


When a person is sexually harrased to any level from another of the same sex and it was uncalled for or went further than it should have, which in this particilar form of harrasment really does not have to be that far at all for the target to become a victim, it does not stop at feeling bad about the actual event itself. The victim then has to make a conciensous decision, do they do something about it, most of the time no they dont, this is not because they dont feel they have the right to do so, this is because they do not wish to place themselves into the public spotlight and into the court rooms mainly for the sake of further personal embarrasment, having to relive the events etc etc.

However not doing something which most sexual predators are well aware of that most will get away with a crime that wont be reported for, the victim then also suffers for the rest of their days the torture of their own guilt that they did not do anything, that they know there are people out there who have probably also become victims and this is the fault of the victim as much as it is of the predator themselves. If as a sexual predator you did not know this then you do now, if as resepctable and civil being you did not know this then you do now, and when you scream and shout bigot, perhaps you should really consider if your reaction is truly justified. For those that are well aware of this and still commit the crime, you are truly the sickest of all and you know what actions you should take stop it.

Fact in respect of humanity, when making a pass at someone of the same sex you are potentially committing a crime of sexual harrasment regardless of the location or level you try to take it to, simply because of the very nature of the act your proposing.

In respect of the male side of the population when a male dog cant control its urges to hump the human reaction is often to remove certain body parts of that animal, you should consider yourselves lucky it is not that cut and dried (the pun is without doubt intentional) in regards to mankind. You should also be glad that there are many decent and respectable people out there who are prepared to carry your burdens with them to their grave, as in all honesty most of you probably do not deserve it, if it was not for them many of you would be where you should be and not walking among the general poulation.

So you can burn the likes of Iris Robinson in your flames as much as you like, the reality is while doing so you will be torching yourselves aswell.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Apologies, but that is a load of tripe. Basically, you're saying that it's OK to base your opinion of a group of people on the acts of one or two individuals. That's pretty much the definition of a bigot.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Sorry but by definition it is absolutely correct, you cannot be 'pretty much a bigot' its either you are or you are not, or perhaps then in the eyes of some she is pretty much not a bigot, if your opinion is based on personal experience or on the reason of knowing others experience it is suffiecent by definition to fall well outside the realm of bigotry.

I spent many years around many homosexuals within the wider community, I spent many years even standing up for them while others were against them. To my regret I can categorically state today I was both niave and stupid to do so. When you say 'one or two individuals' I take it your refering to the very 'tiny minority' who perhaps could without doubt remain above reproach on this issue, as out of 100's or so I could name but wont for varying reasons some of which should be obvious there is but a couple that as far as I am aware would have no need to be on that list.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I'm sorry Nitro, but once again you are using a million words to disguise whatever it is your trying to say.

Where on earth do you draw this conclusion from, it is pure speculation on your part, from which you then go on to justify her views, how on earth can you claim she or a friend has been subjected to sexual harassment from a gay man/woman this is once again fantasy. As regards the rest of your post, once again its couched in so many twists and turns it becomes truly nonsensical, its entirely based on the mistaken premise that Mrs Robinson was in someway abused by nasty homosexuals. Any argument you hoped to raise in defense of this woman has been lost on some mad rant.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Erm, it is ludicrous to suggest that there are no degrees of bigotry. This presumably is why you go on to labour (in a rather roundabout way) the point that your dislike of homosexuals is based on extensive experience? (which I should add does not tally with my experience at all).

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

And you sir either for your own convenience or other reason choose to mis-interpret my post, one day the victims of the wider gay community may just stand up to be counted and if we ever do then your happy little world may just be over. The best way to not have that happen is to stop actions like screaming 'bigot' every time any one who maybe, or may know victim(s) decides to speak up in the way she has.

I stated 'I concur with her sentiments'
I stated 'To me those sentiments are derived from'

So to even the average person it should be fairly obvious exactly where my further justification for those sentiments are resourced.

If I really have to spell it out any more out for you then I really think you should be locked up for your own good and perhaps for the good of your community as your defence of them is nothing but beneath contempt.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

No disrespect intended but I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I can see you’re clearly trying to say *something* however it seems it’s way over my head :confused:

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Not only you Russ, I have a problem making out half of what his banging on about.

Here come the assumptions again, is the above supposed to be some sort of couched threat?:shocked: I shall "shout bigot" towards the likes of Mrs Robinson whenever she makes such homophobic statements, irregardless of your threats to close my "happy little world". Obviously you have some real issues with gay people, so much so you have tried in your previous post to claim Mrs Robinson could be making these remarks because she has suffered at the hands of gay people, once again I say total speculation. She made those remarks from a religious stand point, not from abuse, and no matter how many words you use to try to confuse the issue those are the facts.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

It is not ludicrous, there is no ambiguity in the definition of 'bigot' if that was the case then everyone is nothing but a bigot to some degree including yourself.

You can have a bias in an opinion of which may be well informed or not and even if its ill informed it holds reason to the formation of the opinion, if you can shoot down the reason then fine I am sure you would get a retraction of that opinion unless another valid reason was then discovered.

As Iris Robinson is claiming to be working with a counsellor on these issues who in turn claims to be working with people who have been affected by the gay community in one way or another I dare say unless this is an outright lie, she has some experience in the issue, in which case her opinion while it may be bias for whatever reason is by definition not bigotry. For anyone to try to asume she is at the minimum not in touch with people who have been affected in some way by the gay community or has some form of professional guidance on the matter is either being derived from total ignorance or the desire to sweep that part under the carpet out of pure convenience, I am in no doubt she has some experience on the matter, to what extent I could really careless, thats for her to reveal if she should decide to do so, either way her experience and her religous beliefs are undeniably able to reinforce each other. Now please show us all where she states she has formed this opinion without any reason or experience, you cannot because she has already openly admitted being in touch with a counsellor on this subject during the very radio show this thread and subsequent articles refer to, and at no point has it been indicated this person does not exist, other than that she has no obligation to divulge to anyone just exactly why she is in touch with this counsellor.

It is you who is trying to bring her point of view into disrepute by shouting 'bigotry' without foundation when that is obviously not the case, those of us who are really in the know on this subject will obviously asume the worst of you and with good reason.

When a person has an opinion, it is not possible for any human being to have formed an opinion that carries no bias what so ever, a persons opinion is quite rare some thing thats preconcieved with no experience or reason behind it and to hold no respect for others opinion.

If a person forms an opinion based on others experience which was not actually truthful, this is not bigotry either, it is an ill informed bias opinion based on ignorance of the actual facts.

Many here however are so ignorant to this conception they dont even believe they hold any bias to their own opinions, even though it is not logically possible for a being with a wide variance in its individual mental and emotional make up of which is also affected by its social and domestic enviroment to form one with no bias. Your opinion has bias, it allways will be because it portrays how you feel on a subject so even if thats the only reason for a bias one exists, it is also still very possible to soundly justify the way you feel on a subject without actual personal experience. Even if you declare to be sat on the fence you still have a bias because your sat on the fence for a reason, unless you wish to admit sitting on fences for no reason at all but in that case I would say your opinion on that particular subject is as worthless of one which is truly bigotted as it then also has no foundation.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

She was stupid to air her views as publicly as she did and thats all she isn't representing a view that is unique to her far from it and as many will oppose her view as support it. Only difference is right now in the UK it is all for the opposer's of her and the supporters will silently agree and go about their daily business lest they incur the wraith of the for want of a better term liberal brigade.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Ah, that old thing :D


It's been around since at least 2000, as "Dear Doctor Laura".

"Doctor" Laura Schlessinger is a US radio host, with rather outspoken views on homosexuality...

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Or 'wrath', possibly. Yes, the British media is indeed well known for its liberal views.

Definition of 'liberal brigade', please? 'Anyone who thinks gay people shouldn't be labelled as abnormal due to their sexual preference', perhaps.

The right-wing Thatcher-worshipping Republican-loving Conservative blogger Iain Dale is getting married this weekend, to his male partner. Is he part of the liberal brigade, perchance?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Well, I have been "harassed" by both men and women (obviously when they were blind drunk, but that's neither here nor there ;) ), and I suffer from neither heterophobia nor homophobia.

Nitro, I am sorry that you feel you have suffered from same-sex harassment, and not to minimise any discomfort or long-term anxiety you are still feeling, but what about all the women who get hit on, groped, and otherwise man-handled by men - should they all have a hatred of all men (because you appear to be supporting a one-size fits all prescription).

I have been hit on by gay men, and I look upon it as how women look upon being hit on by straight men - no thanks, thank you for the compliment, but not interested. This has not made me think worse of gay men, otherwise I would have to think the same (imho) of straight men who hit on women.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I've been harrassed by a gay man who saw me keep a bible next to my workstation, and assumed I'd be anti-gay and wanted to see him burn in hell etc - it was quite amusing for a while, watching him have a drama-queen hissy-fit.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Hello, world to Nitronutter:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot

That website gives 10 different definitions of bigotry. Sounds pretty ambiguous to me...

Errm, yes, that's probably why the English language (like all others) has so many words. So we can convey nuances, a concept which apparently is beyond your grasp.

As for the rest of your post. It doesn't make any sense at all... If there's a point you wish to make, could you please state in a few concise sentences?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I have to say I am searching for a point, also, Dan

How many 'bad' experiences with persons in any minority group should define the group ???

- how can anyone with a 'good' experience of someone who is gay reply to such a closed opinion??

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Once again Nitro you've used a million words to say precisely nothing, again. I presume I'm one of the "ignorant", you are referring to, obviously I'm not on your level...but then again I best be quite as you've already warned me about calling Mrs Robinson a bigot, that if I'm not careful you and the other victims of the gay community, might well close quote "my happy little world down". Would you care to elaborate on this threat Nitro, but if you could keep it simple I'd appreciate it...say under a 1000 words without going round the houses.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

You offer up an american dictionary site 'dictionary.com' with 10 alleged entries on the word 'bigot' of which not one entry carries any weight with reference to the real english langauge definition agaisnt the one and only entry from the askoxford.com website based on the oxford english dictionary ?

Some of the entries on dictionary.com are of slang or jargon dictionaries, others from encyclopedias about a person named 'François Bigot' and bear no relevvance at all to the word itself, the rest is either american variations, an interpreters dictionary or personal definitions.

Are you sure your looking for people to take you seriously with that ?

There is no wonder this country is in the state its in if this is the case.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Sorry to be OT, but since when was the OED's definitions the only acceptable definitions of words?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I did not state the victims might close down your world as you have so kindly tried to indicate I did. Here is the line as in my post:
As you can see that clearly implies that if all the victims of the wider gay community were to stand up to be counted then the effect of that action by all the victims could be disaterous to your happy little world. There is nothing more or nothing less in there, you are of course entitled to interpret it as you see fit but it is quite precise in its wording that there is really no reason to misinterpret it. To make that a little easier for you, if all the silent victims of the gay community that are alive today was to suddenly stand up and march on london tomorrow would you really want to hazard a guess as to what the turn out would actually be ?

Personally I believe from what I know, not just about me but about many of my friends and their assailants some of whom had also been aquaintences in my past it would probably be an unprecadented quantity, and create a record that would be nigh impossible to beat for a long time.

So looking at Iris Robinson's more personal sentiments on the matter from the viewpoint your suggesting, the ones reported to the police, which I will reiterate for you to save you looking them up:

Your saying these have no foundation to them, they do not come from anything other than her, as you call it 'bigotted opinion' which is purely based on her religous beliefs ?

If not then please enlighten me on where you believe them to have been derived from, but if it is the case please enlighten us as to how you believe her religion has managed to instill such a deeply felt and obviously quite sentimental opinions into her.



@ Xaccers please show other english dictionaries from england which are generally acceptable in britain for the purpose of challenging the most well known and most cited english dictionary in the world from england, which has a longer standing publication than most others with whats generally accepted on a global scale as containing the most concise definitions. Coming up with a pile of citations from an american dictionary site most of which bear little to no real relevance to the word itself or its definition and stating there is '10 alternative definitions' is distinclty nothing but a poorly researched twist perhaps to suit ones agenda and is to be frank worthless imo.

It would have been fair enough if there was one acceptable english (as in from great britain) sourced alternative with any stature behind it to consider them but I dont see any that fit that criteria on the page.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Right... So you are correlating the state this country is in with the fact that I use another dictionary than Oxford, and you are asking me if I expect to be taken seriously????? You (well, anyone but you seem more accurate), couldn't make it up :erm:


Oh, and well done for missing the point completely. :rolleyes:

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Nitro, you make it sound as if there is a nation-wide conspiracy by the, and I quote, "wider gay community" (does that mean the svelte ones don't participate in these activities?), to hound and victimise straights - have I missed something, as I am sure if this was happening, the red-tops would have banner headlines proclaiming this (imho) - or are the papers like the Sun, the Star, and the News of the World run by a gay cohort of owners and editors?

btw, what is your definition of "victimising", please?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

@Nitro In the interview I saw Mrs Robinson give she clearly stated she was "defending the word of god", now this is one sentence with the facts, no speculation about gay abuse, just the facts, here is the link, now lets see you distort that.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...cle3785912.ece

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Putting the direct references to anything religous to one side for a minute, you truly believe that her faith in the word of the alleged good book or even the alleged god almighty is what makes her feel 'nauseous' and causes her to feel 'physical disgust' at the thought of acts of homosexuality and there is nothing else behind those feelings, not even that it maybe her genetic sexuality make up that could cause them, and also in this you believe that her religous beliefs is nothing more than an oversized cult contrived of twisted and bigoted human opinions generated and perpetuated to apply control over as many people as possible which is simply large enough to be recognised as an actual religion rather than a cult ?

If you dont mind me asking, does the mere thought of hetrosexual acts cause you to feel any kind of disgust or nauseous feelings ?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Actually, yes, depending on the participants (say Michael Winner and Anne Widdecombe).

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

None whatsoever, I fail to see why it should. As regards Mrs Robinson I'm going on the facts, I'm not applying my own standards to her comments, purely what she has stated, which was she was defending god. All through this Nitro you have placed you own reasons in her mouth, that she or someone she knew "suffered at the hands of homosexuals", this is what I object to, you have absolutely no way of knowing that, it seems you are using this woman to further your own predujices when it is clearly a religious sentiment on her part. Finally I'm curious to know why you should wonder if the mere thought of hetero sex should cause me to feel nauseous, I presume its because you take it that I'm gay from my posts? While I'm sorry to disappoint you, I've been married for over twenty years and have a grandson:shocked: What I can't abide though is bigotry against any group, so I'll reverse your question and answer thus "I don't find hetero/homo or any other form of sex between two consenting adults disgusting or nauseous in anyway.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I'm with froggy.

And before you ask, married, two kids (from this marriage, and two from the previous), never performed any homosexual acts (even when in the RAF).

Physical love between two (or more) people is a celebration, not something that is nauseating or physically disgusting (imho).

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

And going by the facts she has while openly and honestly stating her religous convictions on the subject also declared interests in the subject at both a personal level via some associate who has by their own choice changed from a homosexual lifestyle to one of a hetrosexual nature and a professional level via a work colleage who is specialising in this particular field as a counsellor by offering counsel to those who desire to recieve it.

Are you acusing her of making these people up solely to support her religous convictions ?

The very fact that you openly and publicly choose to disregard anything beyond her openly stated religous convictions on the subject surely can only be described as one thing ?
Should it also be taken that because there is a religous background to a supporter of this counselling service you would deny this treatment being available to people even if they should desire it ?

Further more you go on to claim that due to her religous convictions she is unfit to retain her current position while branding her without evidence or qualified foundation a 'manic religous nut'.
Would you also recomend people be removed from their office because they live a gay lifestyle ?

There is bound to be some grounds for 'conflicts of interest' in just about any position held by any one, therefore everyone by your standing should actually not go into work tomorrow because they will be somewhere and somehow unfit for that position.

If measuring something on a scale of degrees I would have to say I think you have attained a level in the crime well above that of what you origionally pointed your finger for with wild accusations in your first post in the thread. Could you therefore be a 'non-religous manic nut' with a prejudice lack of respect for any one who is religous, Perhaps you to should be removed from your office ?

It would be unlikely for you to personally feel any of the more specific sentiments that has also been declared by her during her interview on the matter unless you have actually physically experienced them or are conveying the physical experience as described by another who you are in close contact with, they are common feelings felt by victims and victims only regardless of ones own sexual orientation or the sexual orientation of an attack, easy to condemn such acts, but only possible to try to imagine the after effects of the trauma.

I hold no cross to my convictions, I speak on personal experience alone and I echo Iris Robinsons sentiments with the religous parts removed without regret or fear because it is experience alone that leads me to them. I also hold that there are many people out there that may well be living a gay lifestyle while not being specifically genetically gay, I also do not let that fact detract from the possibility there are going to be some out there who indeed are genetically gay but this in my experience does not count for the entire gay population, in fact it is those who are truly genetically gay that are the ones most likely to suffer because there are others using this as an excuse to do as they please without conscience. They will go so far as to create a myth that then legitemises anyone as a target for sexual harrasment or worse and again without conscience.

It is with that reason I believe the counselling service she is claiming to know of could be of benefit to many and should not be dismissed based purely on prejudice against religion of a supporter of the service, and so concurs to some degree with the thread title

The myth created by and for those who like excuses of conscience is: "Everyone is gay, they either choose to remain in the closet or are simply living in denial".

This myth is nothing short of an abonimation in its own right as it is beneath contempt due to the path it inevitably leads to.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Ok Nitro we get it trust me you don't like gays for whatever reason but constantly banging on is not helping you so it is time to let it lie. Also as you raised a point i made having a faith doesn't and shouldn't exclude anyone from a public office but that faith as far as i am concerned has no place in the official role of that public office and thats what i was saying and what Froggies was agreeing with.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Please supply evidence to back up your outrageous claim.

This so-called myth, which no one except you appears to know about, appears to give you the right to make extremely derogatory comments about a section of society - shame on you.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

And surely that should then apply to any cult or scene (7) that could swing a bias affecting personal opinions in varying directions that would affect others ?

You should remember she has not declared any kind of religous condemnation of gay people themselves, she simply dislikes the act itself in her personal opinion, an opinion reinforced by her religous stance on the act, meanwhile personally knowing people and counsellors offering aid to those who desire it, which can give support to any who feel they may not have entered into the correct sexual orientated choice for themselves, and for this she has no rights to her office ?

Personally I dont think you have the capability to make an unbiased choice on any who should be in office, if her comments are sufficient grounds for a resignation plee then I pity the rest of the world's population, 6 odd billion people may as well throw a noose around their necks now.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Seeing that some people on here are quite fond of reference sites, I've found one that seems particularly relevant:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

http://www.metro.co.uk/travel/articl...2&in_page_id=5

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebri...ado-10735.html

posted 13 July 1999 08:32 PM


http://www.theworldaccordingto.com/f...0&#entry134810

In fact google will return several thousand results for the phrase which you use the first three words, many of which are relevant to the entire context, the last section, which is often dropped as its not entirely required for the same result, like any phrase can and does change some just as any phrase would in a game of chinese whispers, however it really does mount to the same twisted concept each and every time.

I guess as I am the only one who knows of it, I must have created all the pages, posts etc it exists on, just for this particular topic as I must have know it was one that would arrive for me one day ?

It has even been branded about these forums by some here who profess they are, either they have been removed by staff or the search function is not acting as one would normally expect for vbulletin.

Throw this phrase in with a stock of mind and/or body altering intoxicants and I can asure you you can easily convince all sorts of people it is true.

I would say 'each to their own' 'live and let live' yadda yadda, but having been there and done and got t-shirts that was not requested it unfortunately does not work that way, the two worlds cannot co-exist together when it is subjected to such wide spread human distortion, which it would appear it is incapable of refraining from.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

You are using single points of evidence to back up sweeping statements (Tel Aviv gays, Nelly Furtado, etc).

btw, you get 110,000 with google for "everyone is gay"; you get 40,000 for "everyone is green", and 71,00 for "everyone is dead". So, according to your logic, it is equally valid that everyone is either dead or green..... (if you type in "everyone" in google, you get 656,000,000 hits - I think you may find "everyone" is a very popular word - if you type in "all men are gay", google returns about 9000 hits; but I don't suppose that would support your conspiracy theory).

Also according to your logic (things that are reported on the IntraWeeb), all white men are inherently rapists and xenophobics, and are in denial if they disagree. :dozey:

Xenophobia1

Xenophobia2

Rape 1

Rape 2

Nitro, it would appear that you have undergone a traumatic incident in your past, which has skewed (imho) your view on others. To me, it appears you are then escalating this viewpoint into a one-size fits all proposition.

To put it another way, here at two examples -
I had some colleagues injured by Provo terrorists, who were Irish - I didn't/still don't think all Irish people are trying to kill me and others.

I was hit by Vauxhall Viva who ignored a red traffic light, causing me to fly like a bird (luckily, only bruised and contused) - I don't think that all cars, or even the GM subset, have an agenda to run over anyone crossing the road.

I find your vast generalisations offensive, and I am still awaiting evidence on your assertion that there are hordes of gay men roaming the United Kingdom molesting and harassing straight men at all times of the day and night, unreported in the national press.

Edit - just out of interest, I googled certain phrases on googles uk pages, and got the following returns -
"gay molestation" 9 returns
"homosexual molestation", 48 returns
"gay assault" 82 returns
"homosexual assault" 220 returns
"assault" - 595,000 returns
"molestation" 97,000 returns

obviously, google is in denial.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

In the end I can stand up and say the words "I AM GAY"....

But where does that get me...no-where, and why should it!

To me being gay is purely about my choice of a partner, nothing to do with others and apart from that one choice I'm a normal human being who just wants to live thier life with the same freedom that anyone else has.

As for intolerance that's upto whoever has the intollerance, as long as it doesnt effect my life then I don;t really care what they think as they're welcome to have thier own opinion.

As far as the original news article which this thread is based on well that's her own personal feelings and it's a shame that her feeling are being brought out in a political situation. Surely an MP should be putting thier constituants feelings forward in any political context and not purely thier own :(

Kymmy

---------- Post added at 14:51 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

Try saying that to a bike rider about volvos...

Must make me an enigma as I am a long time biker who drives a volvo when she's not on the bike ;)

Kymmy

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

So do you get annoyed with yourself? :D

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I have to say that all the gay people I've met have been perfectly ordinary people except for, as kymmy said, their choice of partner - and the physical side of their relationship concerned me no more, or no less, than any 'straight' couples I've met. None of my business, so it doesn't bother me.

I've only once ever been 'hit on' - including during 6 years at a boys boarding school, so I don't get the idea that gay people are somehow trying to 'convert' others to their perspective - any more than I get the idea of trying to 'cure' them so they become 'normal'..

As for 'genetic' versus 'non genetic' homosexuality, I don't think either have been proved & seems to me to be part of an unhealthy obsession with trying to find out why some people fall in love with people of their own sex, when all we really need to do is accept that it happens - moral or religious 'crusades' or labelling aren't going to change how people feel about each other ???

I suppose it comes down to being selfish - so long as I'm comfortable with my sexuality, I don't really give a damn about any-one else's & can't really understand some why people get so concerned about it ???

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

:clap::clap:

People appear to be confusing "legal" with "compulsory" ;)

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

This is my last post on this subject Nitro, its getting more and more pointless, I'm just pleased that judging from other posts your outrageous and yes, hateful views, eg gay people are sexual predators, are in the very small minority of one. No doubt you'll trawl the net to find views that are similar to your own, then post another essay on why I and others are wrong. I genuinely feel sorry for you Nitro, seeing predatory homosexuals literally everywhere it seems to have put you into an heightened state of extreme paranoia. I live in Brighton which supposedly has a large gay community, but surprise surprise we all get along fine here, most likely because the average person whether they be gay, straight, bi or whatever couldn't careless what someone else's sexuality is, its totally irrelevant, people are far far more concerned with being treated with respect and common decency then what someone chooses to do in their bedroom. It seems to me the ones stirring up resentment are the likes of Mrs Robinson and yourself, not gay people, your the one who seems to be on some sort of crusade to "save these poor confused people". I think its time you took a reality check, the vast majority of gay people don't either need or require saving, surprisingly like most people they are happy and contented...and why shouldn't they be? So in finishing I imagine your rather trenchant ridged and bias views will remain intact eating away at you, while the rest of us gay, straight or whatever get on with and enjoy our lives.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I think free speech is important, and she has every right to express her opinion. However, I think she should be less black and white about it. Someone who has influence / good media coverage should not just express their own opinion without some form of justification / conclusion. (After all what they say does have the potential to cause some uproar or upset.)

For people to have a slightest chance of understanding her hymn sheet, then her reasoning behind her opinion would be helpful.

I see no clear meaning behind her opinion, so its not worth much thought. As far as I am concerned she needs to get out into the wider community and expand her own very limited experiences of the homosexual world. It is my "opinion" that for a supposedly educated woman, she is blinded by her own inexperience. Does that not make her look the fool? :confused:

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

:clap: