Obama wins nomination ??
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7434791.stm

If so, will he make it to the White House? Given the dubious record of the current icumbent and the Republican alternative, I for one hope so. A lot of people (not just in the US) have their hopes pinned on this guy so let's just pray he doesn't turn out to be another Tony Bliar - more spin than substance.

Poor Hillary..........................

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Spin vs Substance is always a hard issue, especially since you can't really be in politics without spin. Personally, I hope he does win and if he does he will be better than Bush IMO. It will be good to have the Democrates in the White House and hopefully Congress.

He could win, but it seems like it will be close. It will be intresting to see where the Clinton votes go, both candidates poll equally well against McCain overall but hopefully the poll results were skewed by the fact that neither Obama or Clinton where the nominee.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Poor Hillary nothing. The better candidate has apparently won (IMO). We probably haven't seen the last of her in an executive office - she'll probably now join Obama as a running mate unfortunately. It could bolster Obama's case in places where he needs it.

Obama, currently, without Rodham-Clinton, is currently dead-even with McCain - 46% apiece. Its going to be close.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

But is the US ready for a black president? Poll results and actual elections are different things...

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I think America is more ready for a black MALE president than a white or black WOMAN president.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Thanks to Dubya, the US would accept nigh-on anyone at the moment. Bit confused about the poll results/elections comment though. What's an election if its not a large poll?


That isn't true Incog. Racism is a much bigger problem than sexism in the US. We elected a woman in the 80s, even before things had come along a good way. Even such-mysoganistic places like Pakistan have elected female heads in the past. Excuses are now running weak. However, much like Thatcher, Rodham-Clinton's persona is going to have more of an impact than her gender. She has garnered a lot of support - just less than Obama. Half the electorate (or thereabouts) are female. With a half-black candidate and a woman, someone was going to lose out.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I find it so odd that America has always been thought of as the country where women have true equality and yet despite all that this is the CLOSEST a woman has ever got to the presidency.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

What I'm saying is that people are more likely to give desireable answers when asked who they will vote for. Less popular considerations (He's black) may be more likely to play a role in the actual voting booth.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

If no women put their heads above the parapet - then how can any woman get elected? Thatcher proved that if a woman does put herself forward (in the so-called nasty, mysoganist party), with an electable political stance, then she can win. When you are citizen that feels the repercussions of a government, politics and political actions matter, not gender.

I personally think its to do with self-belief than anything else. In politics especially, people don't want to be the first as it sets a precedent all future candidates of that ilk will be measured against. That creates a lot of pressure. If they are brilliant, people would be more willing to elect a similar candidate in the the future. Otherwise it can have the opposite effect, That's why females in power, certainly the the initial ones, tend to be the very-alpha variety. They are the ones with the confidence and self-belief to risk putting themselves open to attack, instead of the more meeker, moderate, humble, woman who may be a more suitable candidate if she ever ran.

I'm sure there are women out there that argue Thatcher hurt women's chances of being re-elected in the future. Unless Labour or the ever-so-enlightened Lib Dems, have any women in the ranks willing to step up, we'll never know. However, with Harriet Harman as deputy leader of the Labour party, who knows?

---------- Post added at 14:13 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------

But the poll results I quoted (from Daily Politics Show on BBC2 couldn't read their source) say who would someone vote for, not why. A vote for McCain could be someone who doesn't want a black president, or it could just be someone who likes McCain. If what you said was true, it would make all non-election polls invalid. If they were that inaccurate, then noone would commission them.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

She got close though. She was the favorite by a long way before Obama took off so she did not lose because of her gender, She lost because Obama was a really powerful force that just swept people up.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I agree about racism and also about Hillary being his running mate, Obama is a dead man walking, she could still end up as president yet

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Why a dead man walking?

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Because America has a lot of racists, a lot of nut jobs and a lot of guns.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

The 'poor' bit was TIC ;) I'd vote for Obama and if I was him I wouldn't want her at my side.

---------- Post added at 16:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

.and that's just in the White House !!

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Dint Monica Lewinksy get very close too?

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

All lies that was.... media fabrication........ oh hang on a minute....... no,.... that's right it was the President who was lying wasn't it. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman....." Another fine example to set the world... :rolleyes:

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

It is? Where? Fighting for women's rights has gone on there for a good long time, in fact we in the UK got women's votes in 1918, the US* officially not until 1920, fifty years after blacks. However ours wasn't what you'd call totally fair until 1928, since it was at a different age.

* Some bits, particularly in the West, went their own way before that, but the 19th Amendment is when it became part of the legislative foundation of the country.

Probably not the right thread, but the point about the Tories is that they *always* fail to generalise - their own are judged by different standards to the rest of us - Boris bans tube drinking for us oiks, but is presumably fine with the decent chaps at the Bullingdon Club or the Henley Regatta tanking up. This is pretty much the key reason I'll never vote for them. The nasty, misogynistic stuff comes out in anti-abortion people like Nadine Dorries or any of them who's ever tried to blame single mothers for the ills of society.

Mind you, it was a Tory government that equalised the voting age for women, but not a Tory government any of the current lot would sit easily in.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I wouldn't have thought many people man or woman, who actually lived through the Thatcher years, thought she done much at all to advance the causes of women, quite the opposite.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Breaking news from the Hillary camp... I'll try & grab a screenshot from CNN or something...

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

If all this fuss is made about a campaign to elect a candiadate, what's the actual election going to be like?

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Here we are, got it...

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/85.jpg



;)

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I was trying to think of that guy's name to mention in another thread. I think he works for the MOD now doesn't he - Head of PR or something I think....... or maybe he's Gordon Brown's personal guru :D

---------- Post added at 20:49 ---------- Previous post was at 20:47 ----------

Well that's Americans for you ................

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I remember that guy, "Comical Ali", he claimed the Americans had been completely routed from Baghdad, and in the distance were a column of Abrams tanks. I think your right Osem, his probably telling Gordon that the British people still love him.:D

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Can't remember his real name, but I think many remember the Iraqi Information Minister :D

Quick MSPaint jobbie. Tried to find a bigger original picture, but that one was all I found via a quick Google at lunchtime.

---------------------------------------------


As for the nomination...

To be fair to Hillary (:Yikes:), she hasn't officially lost yet, & while Obama has declared himself the Democratic Party's candidate, there can be no official candidate until the Convention in August (unless Hillary does finally concede before then).

She does have a chance still - albeit a very slim one. Although Obama has a majority of pledged delegates & superdelegates, & has passed the threshold needed to win, he is only over the threshold because of the superdelegates... Any choices the superdelegates have made are not set in stone until they declare their support for a particular candidate at the Convention. So if for some reason enough of Obama's superdelegates changed their minds by the time of the Convention, Hillary could perhaps win it... (but hopefully not ;) )


There's also simply the fact that by not conceding yet, she actually has some power...e.g. "I'll only concede if you pick me as VP", "I'll only concede if you offer me XYZ" etc. Obama would probably also benefit a lot from her campaign machine joining his...if she let it.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

True, but Hillary is almost a shell of herself. I don't think she has the strength to continue whether she wants to or not. The pre-election campaign has been so fierce. She's given it her all, but lately its really affected her. During her last appearance, her voice was broken, her face was drawn. Obama doesn't look the slightest bit different. He might as well come off his holidays for all we could tell. His youth has had a big impact on the campaign.

Even if Hillary doesn't concede and I don't think people could see her even making it to the next election as a credible threat to anyone. Now is the start of the election campaign, not the end. If she is to fight on she's still got a long way yet. I think her tiredness will leave impressions on people's minds. McCain is very much rested and will be a formidable opposition.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Clinton did have a harder job than Obama after Super Tuesday, She had bet on winning the nomination then and her campaign ran out of money and steam. She has had to work much harder than Obama and has had to deal with a lot more stress. Especially after she won PA and was trying to find ways to get the nomination.

That said Obama certainly had a advantage, He seems young, fit, energetic, everything that looks good for a presidential candidate. A perfect contrast to McCain who seems old, has health risks, lacks the energy and charisma that Obama shows. Not sure if it’s intentional, but he seems a great candidate for the Democrats because he does appear different and if the ‘change’ thing plays as importantly as polls suggest he may be nearly unstoppable.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, If McCain’s age becomes an Issue both in terms of electability but also his campaign and if it suffers as a result. He does not want to be looking tired come late October and may well do after 3 months of intense campaigning.

I think Obama will properly win. Race issues aside, I think the polls are a dead heat (although Obama has a 60 vote lead in the electoral college, according to some polls) but as the campaign continues Obama will do better than McCain. Especially if the Clinton camp does rally behind him.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

The biggest thing most Americans want is change, Obama has played this card to perfection from the start, even McCain who I saw on ABC last night is emphasising change and more change, but his problem is Iraq, his publicly stated that the US should stay for 100 years to get the job done, to a lot of people that is what they are calling in the states Bush 3. On the other hand I don't think Obama will have the troops out in 12 to 18 months of taking office, I believe he will go for the British option of a mass withdrawal to say 20,000 or so in bases outside Baghdad, putting them generally out of harms way. As regards Hilary, I'd like to see her on the ticket, purely because she has garnered a lot of support in the Democratic party and united together they stand a much better chance of taking the White House.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I would like to see her on the ticket for the same reasons really. Help unite the democratic party. I went on a Clinton forum today and some of the comments about Obama while vile, horrible comments that you would not expect from people who claim to be Democratic voters :erm:

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I know what you mean, its been such a bitter battle, as you say some of the comments from "Democratic" voters concerning Obama are truly appalling, I also read some on the HCF, at present the Republicans must be rubbing their hands with glee. Hopefully all Democrats will see things a bit more clearly in a week or so.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I think it is obscene that this mans race is being taken into account when talking about whether he is a suitable candidate. We see it in the UK and US media as if its ok to say,well hes black,can we trust him or can he do a good job.

I listened to his lengthy speech on 5 live the other day. All he blathered on about for ages was how close the US is to Israel and how the US would defend Israeli interests to the hilt. What is this big thing about the US and Israel anyway? Is it the same mindset which allowed many Amaericans and politicians to support IRA "freedom fighters"?

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

His race is being taken into account in discussions about his electiablity.

The Israel thing is properly because of the large amount of Jewish people in America and getting their votes.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

It's actually about getting the votes of evangelical Christians

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

That too, but there is a Jewish lobby

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I'd say that's an understatement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7104030.stm

But lobbies are a fact of political life and not necessarily a bad thing.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Doesn't surprise me.


I've been following a US election thread over on...a well-known media & entertainment website/forum based in the UK [ ;) ]... & some of the anti-Obama stuff that's been posted in it is really really OTT & unnecessary IMO... & this is stuff posted by people who claim they are/were Democrats (although some now say they'd rather vote McCain if they can't have Hillary).

I rarely ever see anything from them about exactly why they think Hillary (or McCain) is so great, just what seems to be endless anti-Obama (or anti-"Obami", or anti-"Obumma", or anti-"Barrack Hussein Obama" [not my emphasis]) posts... Insults against Obama, insults against his wife, allegations he has "destroyed" the Democrats in a "self absorbed quest for office", allegations he uses dirty tricks, allegations that he's a friend to crooks & terrorists, allegations he's an appeaser... it goes on & on...:rolleyes:

The Obama supporters there however... nothing like that. Nothing so spiteful or vitriolic... OK, the odd sarcastic post maybe (esp. regarding what could allegedly be seen as hypocrisy regarding the Clinton campaign & the DNC's rules over Florida/Michigan), but nothing in the same league as what the Clinton supporters post.

And yet, one whiff of an "anti-Clinton" post, & they start ranting about Obama supporters & how dare they say that etc. etc. "Rabid". "Obsessed". "Vitriol". :rolleyes:



Well, seeing as the speech was at an AIPAC (American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee) conference, full of Pro-Israel lobbyists, you can understand that's why "all he blathered on about for ages" was the US & Israel.

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:18 ----------

Oh, saw this earlier:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7436989.stm

---------- Post added at 00:27 ---------- Previous post was at 00:24 ----------

Oh, & the ticket...

I hope that Hillary does not get the VP slot.

Really couldn't see it working (even if you ignore the extra baggage of Bill).

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Hillary has "suspended" her campaign, congratulated Obama on his victory, & thrown her weight behind his campaign. She has also urged her supporters to support Obama.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7441941.stm

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

The "suspended" is odd. There are rumors going around of a tape that could damage his campaign very badly, and that it was unearthed by Giuliani's team in late 2007 and passed on to the republicans who may use it at any point.

Maybe she does not want to leave the race officially before the convention in case his campaign runs into serious damage :erm: Or more likely she is pushing for VP

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

From a pro Hilary blog talking about the tape.
http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/06...rant-tape.html

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Yeah, I have heard the same thing. To be honest, no one seems to be able to find a copy (and the pro-Hilary internet nuts are out in force to do so). So how can anyone know what has been said? :rolleyes:

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

The "suspended" is so she can raise funds to pay off outstanding campaign debts ($30 million) - if she shuts it down, she can't fundraise.

Times

"Her campaign was suspended rather than terminated, enabling her to continue to raise money to pay off debts of more than $30m and keeping her technically in the race. She plans to retain a core team of advisers. She may call on it again in 2012."

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

It's true, from the words of George W himself

I had no idea we had so many weapons ......... what do we need them for?

Newsweek, June 25, 2001

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

As Homer Simpson says, "if we don't have our guns whats to stop the King of England walking straight through your front door".

This seems to have clinched the argument for many Republicans. Its like when Bush didn't continue the ban on automatic weapons, and enabled members of the public to own M16 assault rifles...How those poor souls coped in Alabama at the duck shoot without automatic weapons beggers belief.:rolleyes:

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

good luck to the guy,the red necks wont be happy and i just hope he dosent have to spend the the rest of his days looking over his shoulder.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I don't think he'll get there. Some nutter will take him out.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

The object of Hillary's campaign was not to win but to rasie the countries awareness and perception of Obama, this was very obvious after the first couple of primary's. Also believe it or not but the other side of the US polictal fence closed their campaigns down early for precisely the opposite reason.

Why would Mrs Clinton really care about 30 million of campaign debts that she is not liable for, especially when the party as a whole got exactly what it wanted into the minds of the american people and perhaps even further afield ?

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

This seems like a step into the twilight zone, this contest has very nearly split the Democratic party where at times its been brutal, to suggest this was all a set up to raise awareness of Obama is fantasy. Why on earth would she have put $5 million of her own money into her campaign, travelled tens of thousands of miles giving endless speeches if she had no desire to win the nomination? I've heard some crazy conspiracy theories in my time and this one is up there with the best of them.:nutter:

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

The Democratic Party is not a unifed party in the sense we, in the uk, are used too. They have a wide range of different views and people in the party. If they were in the UK they would encompass Labour, Lib Dem, and even a large section of the Tory party.

They cannot and do not control Primary politics, although it is convincable that two candidates could conspire to help each others normination they would not be able to do what you are suggesting. All of them were in it to win it.

Clinton Vs Obama spilt the party and has damaged their chances of winning in November. Clintons speechs are being used in republican ads and a lot of her supporters are not backing Obama.

Unless the Democratic Party have the worse advisers in the history of american politics, I think it is unlikely they planned it :erm:

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Well politically and yes even in the US this would hold, she became absolutely and very obviously the only unelectable candidate in the primarys' at the early on 'new hampshire' event so even though she won that one why carry on after wards with what would undoubtedly be a fruitless campaign.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

But the popular vote was pretty much spilt between them, she was very electable

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

The Democratic vote has been pretty much 50/50 between the pair of them, so with thoses percentages nobody is going to back out, where you get this "unelectable candidate" idea from is a mystery.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

And so it begins......

Fox "fair and balanced" TV

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...8/06/2.jpg?v=0

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

To some it was very obvious a long time ago

actually the vote was not 50/50 Obama was the front runner for most of the trip, there was really no doubt as clinton was allways trailing especially to those who knew she was no longer there to win, but he was an unknown really and also not white, he is certainly no repro of martin luthor king so he needed ample campaign time to appeal to a wider audience, hence a close run campaign between the 2 that was really only ever going one way.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Actually she started out in the lead..

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Hence the word 'most' as that lead was brief and short lived

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Nitro we are going to have to agree to differ here, some things in life are just what they appear to be and nothing more, like this contest, a bitterly fought battle that both Clinton and Obama wanted to win. To make claims, as you have, that Clinton didn't want to win and quote " especially to those who knew she was no longer there to win", both of these statements without any sort of proof are bordering on the insane, you haven't offered a shred of evidence or proof to back up your theory, until you do it remains one of the more wayout, in orbit, all the way to the outer rim conspiracy theories.:)

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

well actually there is proof however its really of the circumstantial nature, and of that I have already stated the one key point where its foundatiion lies because at that key point it was very obvious she without doubt clinton publicly became 'absolutely unelectable' if she had ever intended to be electable.

what you also need to remember is both british and usa political democracy is both money based, and believe it or not the corporations own the politics as well as the legal system being the largest 'donators'. When it comes to money there is only one fact, there is no such thing as friends, and no politician is a friend of the general public. When it comes to corporate finance and politics while on the surface much will be as it seems there are is also much that is not underneath.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

The image that America presents (very well, admittedly) is that it is a society that believes in equality. Sadly, in a lot of places (not all), this is not the case. From what I have been told (I have only been to Vegas so can't comment as Vegas welcomes anyone who has money), America is actually much more divided racially than we are.

I remember reading a while ago that the English actor Colin Salmon (who played Dr. Moon in the recent Dr Who story) was actively considered for James Bond.

He was rejected apparently because although he had already played Bond well in reheasals and auditions where, for whatever reason, Pierce Brosnan wasn't available, there were concerns that the American audience would not accept a black James Bond.

I don't know how true the above is though.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

As someone who has spent a considerable time in the US and the vast majority of that in the deep south, you're a bit wide of the mark.

America does have isolated problems with race, much like any other country. I wouldn't say that America is more inherently racist than us. Its hard to say definitively over such a big, varying country, but that's what my experience reflects.

Regarding the James Bond comment, many of Hollywood's leading actors and sports people are black. The leading American character in James Bond was most recently played by a black man. Given the fuss kicked up in Britain over a blonde and supposedly ugly James Bond, i'd say that we'd have a greater problem with it than the Americans.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Isolated? Only if you call New York and Washington isolated. I have heard similar reports from many people who have visited those particular areas. Including one person who actually lives in Houston.

Actually, the comment was not based on my own opinion. It was in an article I read (hence the comment about I am not sure how true it is). I never said (nor did I imply) that Hollywood had a problem with Black people. Look at the amount of black people that are successful actors. I said they had a problem with James Bond (a quitessential Englishman) being black. Different thing entirely.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

I meant isolated as in unconnected. Each incidence largely says has its own reasons and circumstances. There aren't really any consistent connective threads tying racist incidents together. Not even the old stand-bys that if you're a redneck or from the South then you have to a Dixie rebel that wants to lynch coloureds.


I know the comment wasn't yours. I merely said there is no logic nor reason that Americans would reject a black James Bond, regardless of your source.

I sense a bit of animostiy in your post. Whatever caused it, it wasn't intentional. I wasn't attacking you, but just saying/proviing that a lot of stereotypical comments that get punted around here, regardless of source, are incorrect.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

No animosity here. I didn't think you were attacking me.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

But can we get back on topic?

Yes We Can!

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Indeed though the two are rather closely intertwined in this particular scenario. They are basically saying,well hes black so will certain sections of the USA electorate vote for him? Perhaps this says more about certain sections of the electorate?

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

You forgot the "won't vote for him" because of his skin colour - the same holds true.

Re: Obama wins nomination ??
 

Both the Black vote which will properly go for him, and some sections of the White vote that will not you mean?

I would not say that Black people voting for him because he is black is racist, whereas I would say that White people who do not vote for him because he is black are. I know that sounds like double-standards but allow me to explain.

First of all, Black people in the States have always voted (well, since they have been allowed to vote) for white people. Although some Black people are racist just as some white people are, I do not think that racism is a big factor in their decision making.

This time, for the first time ever, there is a black nominee. I think that in this one case, a lot of black voters will vote purely to see him become president as it would be a massive moment for them, especially those old enough to remember the pre-civil rights movement. It would be a sign that race relations have dramatically improved in the States and it would be useful to further that cause. If we continue to see black nominees then we will begin to see that effect dwindle and it really will not matter the colour of the candidates skin.

In this election, although Obama has kept his race out of the process as much as possible, race will be important.