Last Round on the Underground
 

Wasn't BBKing attending this?

Hope he didn't get caught up in the trouble...

Link

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

" It's sweaty on there but I'm going round and round until I vomit "

......... not quite my idea of fun. wonder if bb is still going around and round and round:sick::sick::sick::drunk:

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

people just can't hold their drink in this country, we're a bunch of wimps!

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I steered clear - by the time we left the pub (with a bottle of lager each) and got to London Bridge tube the board was showing the lines affected, so we stuck to the Northern Line and then Piccadilly. Both full to standing, no trouble whatsoever. I saw plenty of people dressed up on the way into town though, and I expected rather more than 17 arrests given the numbers. So I finished my beer, got off the train and got a kebab.

Bit of a headache and I need a cup of tea.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Sad isn't it?

Nice Idea: Mark the banning of alcohol on the London Underground by having a party

Ruined By: Morons that have got nothing better to do than get trashed out of their tiny little minds and cause trouble for everybody else

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I think it's sadder that we seem to be sleep walking into a police state but there you go

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Forgive me if i've misunderstood but i hadn't realised that London Underground was a premise or location licensed for the consumption of alcohol. Last time i was in London i was on the underground and didnt notice any bars or bottle openers fastened to the hand rails.

It seems obvious to me that public transport of any kind is not an appropriate place for the consumption of alcohol.

As for this fiasco,only in backward Britain would it be tolerated.

As far as I am concerned those involved should have been flogged off the train and put behind bars until they could appear in court,thus leaving the trains for ordinary civilised people to go about their business AND allow rail staff to work without fear of intimidation and assault.

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Just watch America then. It'll happen there first. We've turned into the "51st state" so it wont take long after.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Forgiven.

a) licenses are for *sale* of alcohol, not its consumption. I'm currently enjoying a nice refreshing lager after my Sunday roast, and I don't need a bloody license from some interfering bureaucrat to do that. Tescos, however, needed a license to sell it to me.

b) This being Britain and a free country with a long tradition of liberty, one of our main legal principles is that things are legal unless there's an explicit law against. In the case of the Tube, there was no law against drinking and you were free to consume alcohol. Obviously being drunk and disorderly or vandalising the train was already illegal, as was assaulting a member of staff (which they tend to take very seriously, and the assaults last night aren't going to help Boris get Tube staff onside as his front-line troops against this imaginary wave of crime).

Er, no. It's happened in several other places, too, notably Moscow. In other countries, however, it's quite normal to see people drinking on the way home from work, IIRC you could indeed buy beer on the station platform at Hamburg Hauptbahnhof when I lived there, and it was common to see stout German businessmen cracking open a can to relax on the way home. Mind you, cannabis possession was legal too. Free country, d'ye see?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

BBKING spake thus >b) This being Britain and a free country with a long tradition of liberty, one of our main legal principles is that things are legal unless there's an explicit law against

BB you are pushing at an open door here.

Unfortunately the principle to which you refer seems rather etheral and even if it were so,its general acceptance as a principle would be counterbalanced by a generally accepted standard of morality and behaviour which may have existed in the past but now,sadly,is not quite so prevalent.

Hence the need for explicit legislation.

i.e in the past there may not have been an explicit law against drinking in public but most right minded people would have considered it bad form,bad mannered and unacceptable. Now its mob rule,do as you like so we HAVE to legislate.

Unfortunatly legislation and enforcement are two different matters.

The train drivers should have walked out instead of being complicit in this vulgar and unruly display.

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Has any research actually been done into the amount of crime that occurs on the Tube that could be alcohol-related?

I know there are figures floating about stating that 40% of violent crime in London is alcohol related, but are there any specific figures for the Tube? (just wondering if there is any sound basis for the new law, or was it just a knee-jerk publicity stunt?).

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Well my problem with all the latest nannyesque banning of everything 'bad' is where does it stop?I'm also severely annoyed that because of the actions of small groups of the wider community the majority are slowly having their freedom eroded in the interest of the public good.If I choose to drink a can of lager on the bus why not provided I annoy no one and am not drunk and incapable?It's not as if doing so is illegal and the implication that I can't behave myself and control my behaviour really,really pees me off.

The sort of law that gave rise to the one only rule in china re the law about only being allowed to have one child.This led in turn to forced abortions/exposure/abandoned baby girl death wards all of which have been argued to be for the good of the Chinese people.

I know it seems a small issue but if we don't fight for the small issues in life what happens when we arrive at removing rather more important freedoms,such as the right to legal representation when charged for some minor nanny banned infringement, like chewing gum, on the grounds that gum is bad for the environment?

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I don't remember there being a "last ciggy tour" when smoking was banned on the tubes...

This was always going to end in tears.

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Probably but how many who attended the event didn't get arrested and didn't cause any trouble what so ever? :erm:

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Boris himself had to announce another substantial drop in crime on public transport recently (stemming from Livingstone era policies, of course), so you can argue that changing a status quo which current policing and enforcement strategies were demonstrably working in favour of one where the police get extra duties for a problem that was unquantified is bad policy straight off the bat. Do you take coppers off the anti-robbery and staff assault initiatives to patrol near-empty tube trains in case someone's hiding a can of Stella? Do you take money from existing budgets to pay for more policemen to patrol near-empty....etc.? None of this seems to have been thought through.

Of course, it wasn't really Boris' policy at all - he has an unhappy habit of listening to people*, taking what they say at face value and then making it policy without regard to justifiability, cost or effect. In the case of the booze ban, the Sun (which backed him, obviously, having backed Blair and Blunkett for years when they were banning things left right and centre) got hold of it, so the early announcement resulted in some good headlines.

The RMT, incidentally, was unusually spot on with its initial response to the ban, they welcomed anything that would make their members safer, but queried the timing. The resulting assaults on their members give them something of a talking point when it comes to being consulted in future (they weren't consulted at all on the original ban).

* While it's good for politicians to listen to people, he only ever seems to listen to right wing think tanks and suburban Londoners and appears incapable of analysing the opinions he's received. A lot of his policies are therefore obviously unworkable or based on dangerously flawed data, like the bendy bus non-issue.

Eh? Have you any conception of the part drink has played in British history? I suspect not, or you wouldn't be parroting the classic Tory 'back-to-the-1950s' line about 'standards of morality and behaviour'. We've *always* been a drinking country, we're famous for it. We write songs about it. We've probably got more slang about drinking and being drunk than Eskimos have words for snow. What about the gin epidemic in the 18th century? What about kids drinking small beer (because it was safer than water, obviously)? What about the Royal Navy ruling the waves on rum, sodomy and the lash? What about the thousands of pubs and breweries up and down the country? What about the Scots and whisky?

What will you ban next? I spent last night sitting at a table on a South London street outside a pub enjoying a few pints of London Pride and good conversation - should I make the most of it because that'll surely be next if the country is really full of 'right-minded' self-righteous morlocks, killjoys and puritans who think such a pleasant way of passing the time is 'bad form,bad mannered and unacceptable'. Pshaw.

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Quote Incognitas>Well my problem with all the latest nannyesque banning of everything 'bad' is where does it stop?I'm also severely annoyed that because of the actions of small groups of the wider community the majority are slowly having their freedom eroded in the interest of the public good<

It isnt that drinking is being banned as such .It is drinking in inappropriate places which is being banned and nothing wrong with that. I do not want to see people quaffing alcohol from cans and bottles on public transport,belching their fumes and inflicting their raucous behaviour on the travelling public. How can that be acceptable to anyone? Drinking of alcohol must only take place in licensed premises or in the privacy of ones own home. Simple-black and white...how can anyone object to that?

---------- Post added at 22:56 ---------- Previous post was at 22:53 ----------

BBKing>What will you ban next? I spent last night sitting at a table on a South London street outside a pub enjoying a few pints of London Pride and good conversation - should I make the most of it because that'll surely be next if the country is really full of 'right-minded' self-righteous morlocks, killjoys and puritans who think such a pleasant way of passing the time is 'bad form,bad mannered and unacceptable'. Pshaw.<

And good luck to you BB and i hope you had a splendid time. Your evening took place within the boundaries of a licenced premise,you had a good time and presumably didnt vomit,belch verbally or physically assault someone? Great,but that is a world away from swigging a bottle of WKD whilst lollopping around a railway carriage and making a damn nuisance of yourself..

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Was there actually a problem with people drinking on the Tube before the ban?

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:23 ----------

What's wrong with someone having a drink on a long train journey?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I travel on the tube alot but have only been effected by drunks a couple of times. They didnt do anything to me specifically but they didnt make the journey comfortable for any of the surrounding passengers with their exploits.

Seen drunks throw up in the overland trains a few times too.

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But were they actually drinking on the trains? Obviously, people will take the tube to get home after going out drinking (and I'm not saying that is nice for those around them), but I'm just wondering if there was much actual drinking going on?

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What arrant nonsense you spout at times...Whether I'm drinking alcohol sitting outside a pub,on a train,in the street or in my own garden I do not belch or inflict my raucous behaviour on others...So why the hell should I stop drinking in those venues or be prevented from doing so because others have no self control.

I'm thoroughly sick of freedoms being slowly eroded because people like you tar everyone with the same brush.:mad:

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At times? I think you're being overly generous there :erm:

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Yes, in one of them I remeber the guy drinking from a can. But remember, these were a few incidents compared to how often I use the tube. To be honest I havent seen that many people actually drinking on the tube.

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Cheers. So basically there was no actual need for the ban that caused last night's disruption?

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I don't see any need to ban drinking on the tube. For one I have not seen that many people drink on the tube anyway, but I have seen drunken people on the tube. What I'd prefer to see is drunks not allowed to get on the tube. By the way I dont drink, so its not like Im saying dont ban drinking on the tube for any personal reasons.

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I love nothing more than a glass of wine on the train. Rather looking forward to my trip to Manchester next week and the bottle of Pinot I have for it. ;)

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shirley not this, though

http://www.codehot.co.uk/lyrics/uvwxyz/who/5-15.htm

- anyway, I thought pride wasn't till August :D

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Some years ago, the entire Coventry City Centre was designated an alcohol-free zone and open containers of alcohol were banned outside any pub or beer garden. I missed the mass rioting at this abhorrent abuse of human rights by a totalitarian regime (Coventry City Council) at the time.

Speaking of totalitarian regimes, there's no question Red Ken wouldn't have implemented a similar ban, as he's incapable of adhering to it (or even remaining dry whilst at work)

Also, since when did Bob Crow suddenly get the veto on the mayor's policies? Did I miss a memo or something?

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have a look at the photos...it looks real bad...one girl unconscious as someone jumped from above down onto her...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-violence.html

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Big chunks of Scotland (almost all now I think) have bans on people drinking alcohol in public and have done for a number of years.

Can't really see that much of an issue with it. If you want a drink out in the open there are plenty of bars with beer gardens kicking about. It does help get the Buckfast brigade and 'gentlemen of leisure' off the streets instead of stoating about with a half drunk bottle of vodka hassling folk.

And 17 arrests? After the big, bad Scottish hooligans destroyed Manchester city centre (according to the media) there were only 42 arrests. So were things only half as bad on the tube as in Manchester?

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About the only time I've drunk alcohol on the tube was St Patrick's night many moons ago.

I was waiting at Harrow on the Hill for my train when I was joined by a crowd of mildly drunk Irishmen also on their way home. To continue their celebration they opened a can of lager, produced a shot glass, and "made" everyone in the group take a drink, filling and passing round the shot glass. A brilliant way to make a couple of cans go round and take time to. Great fun.

Spreading wider though it's the ban on alcohol in parks and the like that I find harder. I quite often would picnic, on my tod or with company, some nice bread, cheese, cold meats and a bottle of vino (with cups). Enjoy dining al-fresco, clean up afterwards, dispose of litter in bin. Blanket bans wipe out this pleasure and seem to do little to stop consumption of HSL judging by bottles left in playgrounds.

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There are plenty of thing more worthy of a ban on the underground, like the smell of BO, the fact you pay the earth and can't get a seat, the fact you have to spend the majority of journeys looking at some ones armpit etc etc Nice one Boris, give the public what they want :rolleyes:

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I suspect we are on the same side here but nevertheless,closer examination is warranted.

Now then Incognitas, if you were on the London tube or on a public bus,would you swig alcohol from a can or a bottle? Please give reasons either way.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Because I was thirsty and I wanted to.What other reasons would there be? :rolleyes:

My point isn't necessarily about drinking on the underground.It's the very gradual erosion of legal rights by the back door method of just banning things WITHOUT any real mandate from the public as a whole. :rolleyes: :mad:

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I can safely navigate country lanes I know like the back of my hand at 70mph, so why should I be prevented from doing so because others have insufficient vehicular control?

Bloke I knew only did cocaine in small doses, never hurt anyone, so why should he be prevented from doing so because others have no self control?

Question coggy, should those with no self control who drank on the tube be stopped from drinking, or were you quite happy for people with no self control to get blotto on the tube while on the way to a night out?

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That's a nice collection of straw men you've got there. The issue seems to be that there wasn't really a problem with people drinking on the Tube in the first place (until last Saturday that is). So why bring in a ban on something that isn't a problem in the first place?

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Maybe for day time commuters, but after dark I've witnessed lots of louts drinking and being disruptive while travelling on the tube.
So, should they be stopped from drinking on the tube, or are you happy for them to carry on?
Is it ok for someone to be drunk and disorderly on the tube?
Is it ok for someone who is drunk and disorderly on the tube to get more drunk while on the tube?
Is it ok for someone who isn't quite drunk to become drunk while on the tube?

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Its unfortunate but,without putting my rose tinted specs on,there was a time when there was a much more rigourous moral code in this country. It was unspoken but most people knew the rules off by heart.

For example..

People would not spit or vomit in public unless they were ill or afflicted

People would not smoke weed on the bus

People might give up their seat for an older person or a lady

Peole might hold a door open for you to pass through behind them rather than let it slam in your face

People would say excuse me or sorry if they bashed into you whilst passing

The list is endless....

And so it is that at the same time,the only person you might see drinking in public would be what we used to call a tramp (now ostensibly a homeless person) or a hopeless wino.

The moral code of which i speak has been depleted and no longer exists in the same form or to the same degree.

That is why behaviours have to be formalised with regulations. We cannot assume that what is not expressly forbidden by law is therefore permissable.

You speak of a mandate. The mandate was granted to the present Government at the general election. We gave them leave to run the country and to make law as necessary.

I would bet a months wages that if a national referendum were carried out as to whether people wished to restrict the sale and public use of alcohol,it would receive a resounding yes vote. The country is crying out for it.

That is not to say that those who enjoy a drink cannot continue. It just has to be enjoyed in the right and proper circumstances. I too enjoy the odd drink and a bit of socialising but i would never dream of swigging it in an unlicenced public place because i have some level of respect for my fellow man.

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My main objection is that what is LEGAL is slowly being banned WITHOUT any input or discussion from the majority.

When it becomes illegal IN LAW then fine I can accept it.But when it's done by the back door no.

And then even when it's done by law if it erodes basic freedoms I'm still going to complain..Oh and the 70mph and cocaine issues you raised,that is actually illegal already. ;)

---------- Post added at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 ----------

Well most of what you are talking about is illegal and I have no objections to anyone bringing it to the attention of the police...Ever done that?

As far as I know drinking alcohol in moderation in public is still not illegal.On Buses,trains(It's even sold on the buffet cars and refreshment trolleys)planes you are allowed to drink.Now being drunk and disorderly IS illegal and getting arrested is fine,smoking weed is illegal and getting arrested is fine...Did you ever complain to the police about someone in that state?

What so many of you are failing to realise what I am actually complaining about is this and this WILL be the last time I state it.

That ordinary law abiding citizens are having their legal rights eroded one by one by local councils just banning certain legal activities because they want to moderate the few when there are perfectly legal methods to tackle them.

Take individuals to court and let the process of the law deal with them.OR pass a law that makes drinking in public places illegal.Don't target EVERYONE will nilly.
But no banning anything please..do it in law.

Which is what they have done with tobacco by the way...I can see the time coming when alcohol gets the same treatment especially as they are now calling for ads for alcohol being banned which was one of the stages to dealing with tobacco but I digress.

Then I guess us fat people will be targeted and eating in public places will be banned.

---------- Post added at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 ----------

Being drunk and disorderly is already a crime...But drinking and still being sober is not.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

They weren't always Incog, until someone said "Hang on, a minority of people have no self control, best make some rules up to prevent it and protect the majority"
So is the illegallity of doing 70mph in a 60mph zone, or the illegality of drugs wrong? Should they have said "Oh well, it's only a few people who have no self control, best not affect the majority" then?

So are you happy for people to be able to become drunk and disorderly through drinking on the tube or should they be prevented from that?

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Xaccers, by your logic (I am assuming you are saying we should ban it to prevent people becoming drunk and disorderly) we should ban drinking in pubs too, and nightclubs (I have seen plenty of people getting drunk and disorderly in both). Or are those places ok?

Why not ban drinking full stop??

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Fine by me, but some people might object ;)

I'm sure you can tell the difference between a transportation system and a recreational establishment.
The moving trains and live rails of the tube may go some way to help you tell the difference.

Incidently, in pubs, members of staff should prevent people from becoming drunk (if memory serves it's actually illegal to be drunk in a pub).

Are you objecting to people being prevented from becoming drunk and disorderly in a public place?

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I'd rather have a police presence on the tube to arrest drunks. I dont drink, but I dont see why alcohol(or anything else) needs to be banned as a premptve strike as such.... where will it all stop? Dont get me wrong, i wouldnt mind seeing a total ban, im all for anything resembling an islamic state lololol.....

I heard something about pointed kitchen knives being banned as the point serves no purpose and its used for stabbing? lets ban cars from the public roads too because of all the irresponsible drivers who are a danger to other road users and the public.

You personally drive, shall we ban cars off the road because of all the accidents caused?

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You made my point for me...Except I want it done by the government and through the law courts NOT by regulations set up by councils.If I'm going to lose my freedoms I want it as official as it should be...So I and others can vote the bummers out at the next election.

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Partially in response to Incog....I appreciate your point of view. Of course making laws and enforcing them are two different matters. There are lots of laws which are not enforced. Sometimes this is due to manpower shortages,economic or political reasons or that the crime is not detected.

You ask if i report stuff. Well yes i do. But the thin blue line is very thin and low priority stuff often gets a delayed or no response.

Last year i wrote to the General Manager of Stagecoach buses to make enquiries about my enforced inhalation of illegal narcotics on his vehicles. His response was that whilst he appreciated my predicament,enforcement was down to his driver. Thats the guy whos sat all on his own with a bus to drive and tickets to sell. So thats not going to happen and i dont blame him.

Effectively,and for the most part,if you make a 999 call in this country you will only get an immediate response if there is a clear and present danger to life and property.

Are the alcohol consumtion bans criminal law or local authority byelaw? Who will enforce them? Some poor conductor or ticket collector who will receive a broken jaw for his impertinence?

As i say, far better that these things were handled by the common moral code...but then we don't have one any more.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Surely it's more efficient to let people know that the tube is not somewhere to get drunk and give staff the authority to deal with sober people before they get intoxicated?
If someone is on the tube and then gets drunk, isn't it too late then?
Prevention is better than treatment.

People are aware of the risks with driving, most people I know (and many participants of this thread judging by the "but there's not a drinking problem on the tube" type posts) don't expect to come across drunks on the tube, after all, why should they? It's not a pub, it's a transportation system which has dangers such as those pesky trains and their live rails.
A friend of mine worked for Silverlink many moons ago, and she recounted an incident where a young man had been drinking on the last train and got off at the wrong station. Staggering around disorientated, he met the live rail and ended up dead.

Incidently, on the roads legislation has been brought in to reduce the risk of injury, such as local councils using their power (rather than parliment voting for it) to impliment 20mph areas. Wonder if Incog objects to that too as it wasn't parliment?

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:21 ----------

You mean following legal process and using the powers given to them by government then?
So you're objecting because council use powers given to them as decided by parliment rather than parliment deciding to do the same thing when they represent the majority of people who don't live in London? O-K....

Anyway, are you happy for people to be able to become drunk and disorderly through drinking on the tube or should they be prevented from that?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Use the Tube a lot do you? Because I live in London and use it most days/nights and tbh a few idiots aside I haven't really seen much of a problem. More importantly I know 'a lot' of people who work for the Underground at all levels from station supervisors to higher management and they say the law isn't needed, isn't wanted and they'll struggle to enforce it, so what's the point of it? As ever the majority suffer. I wonder how many times Boris has been on the Tube?

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No I don't, yet the few times I've used it late at night I've witnessed revellers drinking and causing trouble on some of them.
You say you haven't seen much of a problem, so you've seen it being a problem.
It's difficult to enforce a smoking ban, yet strangely enough it's been working, or do you see as many people smoking where it's banned as you did before?

Is it ok for someone who isn't quite drunk to become drunk while on the tube?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Why do I care if some one who isn't quite drunk becomes drunk on the tube and why do you? If he isn't affecting you or your life why should it concern you? Don't you find it interesting that on some trains into the city they'll sell you booze that you can happily quaff on your journey?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Xaccers paints a picture that suggests the tube is full of drunks all the time. If someone with no experience of the tube read his posts they'd think that the tube is actually an extension of the pub. Drinking on the tube as far as I recall has never the problem that he makes it out to be.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Maybe if you'd been affected by some of those drunks you'd know better.

So because you've never witnessed an incident, it never happens?
Incidently, how is "the few times I've used it late at night I've witnessed revellers drinking and causing trouble on some of them" painting a picture that suggests the tube is full of drunks all the time? Please do explain that one.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

So in the style of your responses to other posts.....

Because you have seen incidents "a few times, late at night", do you think the underground is full of drunks and that drinking on the underground is a problem that warrants a blanket ban?

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Perhaps if you worked on the underground you'd know better, this law in their opinion isn't wanted or needed.

How were you affected, their snoring disturb you did it? That's what most do who have had a few that I have seen, frankly buskers are more annoying.

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I know at least one, and if I'd been in the country, I'd have known two.. I was invited by a friend and possibly would have gone. I would not have caused trouble though.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I've made no suggestion that I think the underground is full of drunks (has been on several occasions though).

To both of you, how many incidents where someone has gotten drunk on the tube and started a fight do you consider unacceptable? 10? 30? 150?
Personally I don't consider a single incident like that acceptable.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I have used the underground regulary to commute to and from work for anywhere up to 2 to 3 years at a time, since I was 14 or so and to date I have only seen one fight on the tube and that had nothing to do with anyone being drunk.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I have used it regularly (almost every day) for 20 odd years and never seen a drunken fight, I have seen plenty of football fights and one **** bag hit a blind man who bumped into him.

I notice our mayor hasn't banned booze at Henley, I am sure the toffs shouldn't really be getting on those boats after drinking all that champers, anything could happen, or is it one rule for the stinking rich and another for every one else. As I said earlier, perhaps it's also escaped his attention that you can buy a drink on certain trains into the city as well.

Whilst we are on this nannying/moral crusade we have a lot of gun crime, therefore perhaps anyform of gun, replica, toy, sporting or otherwise should be banned to avoid gun glorification

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

And?
Big deal, neither of you have been unlucky enough to be affected by people drinking on the Tube.
Unless you're suggesting that no one has ever been affected by people drinking on the Tube because you've never seen it. Is that what you two are suggesting?


Where have you been for the past couple of years? Take a look at section 36 of the Violent crime reduction act 2006.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

No what I am suggesting through knowledge of what people who actually work on the tube at all levels say is that this law isn't wanted or needed, little shock really though that you think your opinion and limited experience is more worthy than those that actually deal with it everyday.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

What you're saying is that workers on the Tube and yourself care so little about victims of drunks that they'd rather poo-poo a Tory idea than say "ok it doesn't happen often, but we'd rather it didn't happen at all"

As you didn't answer before, I'll ask again. How many incidents do you consider unacceptable?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I read the post(s), read it again, and again, and nope it doesn't say that at all... Stop being so melodramatic Xac.

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I think that Xaccers thinks that if he has the last word he has won the argument. ;)

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Really? So how is saying there isn't a problem because it only affects a few people, and not themselves, so not worth doing anything about showing that they give a damn about those people who are actually affected?

---------- Post added at 00:59 ---------- Previous post was at 00:58 ----------

I notice you've not had the decency to answer the questions put to you.

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If they are anything like the questions you have asked me I don't blame her, they are beneath contempt

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Ok, so from your posts, I conclude that indeed, you don't give a damn about people who've been affected by drinkers on the tube because 1. it doesn't happen very often and 2. it doesn't happen to you.
Nice.
You've given no evidence contrary to that.

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You've heard of proportionality, haven't you? My neighbours have dogs. They are noisy at times. It annoys me. Do you propose we shoot all dogs?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

You're comparing banning people from drinking alcohol on a transportation system with shooting dogs????

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Yes. Well spotted :tu:

You may have noticed I also mentioned proportionality

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I did but in your usual style you keep asking the same questions over and over but slightly reworded.Leastways I can't discern any differences.:shrug:

I've told you what I think and you haven't listened.I therefore have left you to it deciding unilaterally to agree to disagree. ;) Anyway eventually all arguments have to stop somewhere.


And now you can have the last word about the matter and feel you won.;)

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I cant speak for the Daddy, but I am pretty sure he feels the sam as I do. There might have been people affected by drunks on the tube, but the majority of people who drink on the tube do not cause trouble. In fact tube workers, and memebers of British Transport police (I have a family friend who is one) have said to me that they do not think that a ban of drinking on the tube is a good idea, and its very difficult to police. Drinking on the tube is not a problem that warrants a blanket ban, especially when its not being implemented on other forms of public transport. I bet if you could get a drinks trolley onto the tube easily it wouldnt be banned.

I do find it strange that someone who doesnt live in London, doesnt use the tube every day, doesnt work on the tube, can feel that he is more qualified in this argument then those that use and work on the tube every single day.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I've been the victim of drunken violence on the tube. Sorry if that means I can't post saying that I'd rather those youths who were merrily drinking stella before getting nasty were actually prevented from getting drunk and therefore getting violent.
Never mind eh? It's only one case, from someone who doesn't use the tube that often, and doesn't live in London, so it doesn't matter does it? Obviously I was wrong in thinking that the tube was a transportation system and not a public house. You've not seen any problems so there isn't a problem :rolleyes:

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

By the way, no one has said that at all. No one has said that drunks on the tube should not be removed off the tube, no one has said that anyone harrasing another passenger whether they are driunk or not, should not be dealt with.

For me the biggest problem I have faced on the tube is lack of hygiene by a lot of fellow passengers. I have felt more discomfort from being in the presence of sweaty smelly dirty fellow passengers in the summer months mainly, then I any discomfort I have experienced from someone drinking on the tube?

Shall we implement smellameters at the gates/barriers, and not let anyone which a pngfactor 12 or above enter the tube?

---------- Post added at 01:42 ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 ----------

You seen a couple of problems so there is a large scale problem that warrants a total ban?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

No instead you've said that you're happy for people to be able to get drunk on the tube then be kicked out, while ignoring that between getting drunk and being kicked out they're free to cause trouble.
Having suffered all my life with anosmia, I would love to spend all day being able to smell sweaty arm pits and stinking feet. Consider yourself lucky that you are able to, especially if you ever come home and smell gas. Some of us aren't that fortunate.
Course odours aren't going to give you a black eye, or gang up with other odours and push a tramp under a train.

You see the tube as a public house?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Well after the reaction I just got for expressing my opinion I'm giving up on this thread...

dummy...thrown..pram.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

You are a total hypocrite now. Because you cant smell it its not a problem for you so we should be lucky that we can smell it. I have had to leave a tube before my stop because some stinky smelly armpit in my face otherwise I would have thrown up in the carriage.

Anyway I 'd have thought that some of the codswallap you've posted in this thread would have been strong enough for even you to smell.

I have said that trouble makers should be kicked out. What you are saying is that everyone who drinks is a potential troublemaker. Spot the difference?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

For pointing out that being able to smell is something I wish I could do? Great.
Perhaps you missed the point that an odour won't give you a black eye, or push someone under a train? Or was that something you hoped I wouldn't mention?

I'm saying that the tube is not a drinking establishment. You've got commuters, travellers, crowded platforms, limited seating, noise, confusion, electrified rails, thundering trains. You really think that makes it a suitable place to drink?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

Err I am calling you a hypocrite because your post suggests that if you cant smell it its not a problem, in that I should be grateful i can smell. At no time am I calling you a hypocrite because you cant smell. Do you notice the subtle difference?

I tell you what Xaccers, since you want the last word, here it is....

YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU HAVE WON THIS ARGUMENT, YOU KNOW MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THIS THREAD AND MAYBE THE ENTIRE FORUM....

WE ARE NOT WORTHY

ALL HAIL XACCERS ... KING OF FORCING HIS POINT ACROSS TILL EVERYONE JUST GIVES UP........

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

So you deliberately ignored the points that an odour won't beat you up or knock you under a train just so you could call me a hypocrite.
Sounds like you're the one who was having an argument.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I suggest you both find something else to do, because if you keep arguing in this thread you'll both end up getting infraction points.

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

I'd have thought being a victim you'd want to avoid putting people in situations of confrontation but it seems you are quite happy for underground staff to try and enforce this hair brained law regardless of the fact they aren't trained for it and in a lot of cases are women or quite old men, needless situations of confrontation will arise from this, that in normal past circumstances would passed without incident.

Moving on to the problems that 'we don't see' how do you expect them to enforce the ban, search every one. What about on match days, would you want to tell 3000 Leeds fans to stop drinking at the station? New year should be interesting to, are you going to tell the 250 000 people in Trafalgar square they can't get on the free tube sponsored by Fosters incidentally IIRC because they are a bit worse for wear?

Re: Last Round on the Underground
 

We could breathalyse everyone getting onto the tube, lunchtimes in the city should be fun.