Who's Brown listening to?
 

Not the families of victims like this that's for sure:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7395775.stm

When is this Government going to get a grip of serious crime like this ?

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

The voices in his head "put taxes up, fuel duty go up"

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Osem for most of us this latest tradegy has come as no surprise but as far as our government is concerned the tax is still coming in so anything else is secondary. Brown hasn't, doesn't and will not listen to anyone other then himself because gordon truly believes he knows best and he knows how to do it and nothing will come between him and that delusion. I am more and more seeing GB as the modern day nero and await news that he has taken up fiddle lessons soon.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Recently I have lost a fair bit of faith in Brown, but Osem you hardly come at this from a neutral point, this is one ofmany anti-Brown, anti-Labour posts, I honestly do not know what you think Brown, or for that matter Cameron can do to stop these wicked random killings. To make progress against these types of "people" is going to be a generational project, a lot of them come from homes without any aspiration's a total lack of respect for anybody but themselves and an attitude that the world owes them a living. So to make a statement that Browns not listening to people who have lost their children to murder is puerile, as Ive stated earlier his not my choice at present and I doubt very much Id vote for him at the next election, but Id not make a comment like that about any politician.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

This country is on it's arris in a big way, it needs sorting and it needs sorting now.

What happend on Saturday morning outside that Bakery was brutal, I watched his mother on GMTV yesterday morning saying that she felt for the parents of the killers, this woman had just lost her son.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Timeline: London teen killings


https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/05/76.jpg

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Anti government? Well possibly that's because we only have one government at any given time don't we and we don't get terribly far harping on about the last lot like Bliar and Brown have done ever since they took power. Given that this lot have been in power since 1997 and having got there on a series of promises like "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime", they're largely the ones in the firing line for the mess we're in. You clearly haven't been reading my posts properly for if you had you'd know that for me it doesn't matter what colour rosettes politicians wear on their lapels - unlike far too many folk I've never been one to vote out of habit or blind loyalty and I don't intend to change that policy. Far from being a Tory as you seem to imply I have yet to make up my mind who is going to get my vote at the next election but when we have a new government and they cock up on as large a scale as this mottley crew have you can expect me to be just as hard on them!

You imply that Brown is listening well perhaps you can give us all some examples of how he's done that. How much has he listened to the families of all those young people who've been killed. To my recollection the last victims they listened to were the Lawrence family. IMHO, the only time Brown has listened to people is when his job has been on the line or his own party, including thoroughly honourable MP's like Frank Field, have forced him to.

As for the rest of your post well you are correct in part but wrong to the extent that governments ARE responsible for making the laws and setting the standards by which our society should operate. They have failed to do that and rather than building the foundations for your so called 'generational' tackling of this issue, they've further undermined the value of the traditional family, eroded the rights of parents, teachers etc. and presided over a decade during which many young people have totally lost respect for figures of authority and there's been ever increasing violence amongst them. Excuse me for not patting them on the back.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

And when another party gets voted into No.10, they'll do the same thing and blame the previous occupants. I've witnessed it all before, when Thatchers lot had power for about 16 years! Why do some people think things will be any different once some other gangsters take power?

Whatever they promise to do once in charge, goes out the window with excusses like, well, "we're going to have to reconcider the promisses we made, because firstly, we have to sort out the previous parties mess." And this will go on forever.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Sadly that could be true but it's no reason either to abstain from voting or to vote for the current lot again. The least we can do is to give power to those who seem to be offering solutions to the problems we face as opposed to those whose lies, spin and abject failure are all too apparent.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

i have to agree 100% with what you say enuff,things aint going to be any different no matter who gets in,sad isnt it ?.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Frogstamper people like me and Osem are annoyed with this government as they are the ones that have presided over a decade of increasing violence in our society while massaging the figures to make it look a lot better then it is. Brown only gives a rats about how he keeps a job that is too much for him and he is incapable of doing to any level that will benefit this country.

I am sick of seeing this "blame the parents" crap all the time as this government has done more to remove parental rights while moving the onus of rights onto a youth that is unable to use them responsibly. It is a minority of the youth that is a problem but as long as that minority exists and keeps getting away with it thanks to apologists making all the excuses under the sun for them it grows in number and gets more blatant as we are now seeing.

How do we solve the problem i don't know but i do know what we are doing now is patently not working and we need someone who is big enough to step back take another look and consider something new that person is not and never will be gordon brown who is completely blind to anything but his own ideas. Enuff you might be right but what are you suggesting that we stop trying and then do what exactly.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

The answer is simple, allow teenagers to ride a moped without having to pass a test and make people have to pass a test before they can have children.
The result would be a cut in pollution, lower oil imports and less hooligans being born.

I should have been a politician. ;)

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

What exactly would a parenting test consist of i am dying to hear that one given that there are so many changeable circumstances that affect parenting it would have to be one hell of a test to cover half of it.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Well they might with the new sentencing guidelines for Magistrates Courts.

*1 quick scan later*

Nah on second thoughts maybe not.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

and the up side of that is, more donors


Osem. are you following in the footsteps of the press ?
The blame game,blame Brown for all the trouble .
if Cameron was in charge he would get the blame.
well Boris is mayor. lets blame him as well.

there are no answers, there is no way out of this.
if it was that easy we would all be walking about smiling

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

I don't need to follow anyone's footsteps and am more than able to work out for myself who's responsible and for what. I've never said the government is to blame for everything but being in government is supposed to be about solving problems NOT creating more of them and lying/cheating/spinning all along the way.

Bliar is now history thankfully but since Brown was Chancellor and now PM he's been at the helm or thereabouts since day one of New/Old/NearlyNew/Same Old Labour and as such the buck now stops with him.

As I've said almost ad nauseam, a change at the next election only guarantees one thing - the end of a pathetic shambles of a government not worthy of the name. Whilst that in itself won't solve all our problems it's a very good start.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Right......... Quick recap on crime and punishment in our country today!
I can sort it out here and now.

People who commit a crime get punished.
People who fail to pay a bill or their Community charge, work something out with them. Let them pay, Realistically, what they can pay.
People on benefits and claim that they are jobseeking, offer them 2 jobs where the renumeration will give them a reasonable standard of living, ie no booze, drugs or fag money so they can pay the bills that matter and then take away their benefits if they refuse the jobs.
We need to get tougher on our policing as well. Anyone caught carrying a knife, 5 years hard labour. Anyone caught carrying a gun, whether it be a replica or not, 10 years Hard labour. Antisocial behaviour, 6 month`s Hard labour, no community service, ffs this does not work.!!!
No tolerance of crime, our courts have gone so soft!:mad:
If you commit a crime you know what you are doing, you are going to disrupt somebody`s life and try and take something that does not belong to you.
Get off your arse and go and earn it for yourself.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Wouldn’t be too difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff, enough material has been written on the subject.
Most animals seem to manage the job easily enough, which makes you question the intelligence of some parents or perhaps animals spend more quality time with their offsprings.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Most parents would love to spend more time with their offspring but are unable too as they have to work to pay the ever increasing bills in this country. Even when parents spend time with their kids it is no gaurantee that everything will work out fine. Make authority exactly that and show kids that it has real power and you will quickly see a change of attitude amongst the troublemakers in todays youth. Lets be honest if your a little thug in modern day britain what the hell do you have to be worried about even if you do get caught apart from maybe greater chance of rsa due to extended playstation playing hours in a young offenders institute.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7401982.stm

Well this is good news but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. There was a great deal of reader comment posted on a local newspaper website (since removed) which indicated that the attacker was well known although it's still not clear if they are one and the same person. Quite why the police didn't release any details of the assailant after the attack though is beyond me but Derek S might be able to shed some light on that...

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Murders in London:

2005/6 - 168
2006/7 - 162
2007/8 - 156

By comparison

Murders in New York (slightly larger population than London)
2006 - 921

What was that about getting a grip? What part of 'inventing lots of new offences, hiring thousands of police, spending fortune on policing, taking sentencing policy out of the hands of judges and into a politically appointed quango and locking thousands more people up for longer' doesn't meet all the usual kneejerk requirements for 'getting a grip'? When will people stop making political capital by distorting and misleading people? Why do we constantly hear people point to New York as an example*? Why don't we hear from the newspapers that spent the year trumpeting about a 'wave' of killings in London when the figures prove that there wasn't a wave at all? Why am I going to get slated for being 'insensitive' for trying to bring rationality into stupid faux-emotional arguments? Answers on a postcard, please, to:

'I don't give a toss about the truth but I'm scared and want someone who looks different from me to suffer',
c/o The Sun,
Wapping,
Lies.

* Yes, murders are down a hell of a lot in the Big Apple, no that doesn't make it a role model. Same is true of Baghdad, after all. Mind you, some people are probably far enough unhinged into tabloid world to support sealing off of areas of London with concrete walls and sending in the Army.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Well perhaps my definition of getting a grip is a bit different from that of the Sun's (you evidently spend far more of your time reading that rag than I've ever done) and being scared of a situation or appalled by it are totally different things. None of the above constitutes getting a grip when the figures are still as high as they are and people are being killed almost at the drop of a hat for doing not very much at all. Comparisons with New York or anywhere else for that matter don't alter the fact that our glorious leaders have so far proved themselves unable or unwilling to tackle this problem.

Re: Who's Brown listening to?
 

Poor Gordon, he's hardly any nails left.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/05/68.jpg