Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

Or even, could it be a GOAL of Virgin Media to eliminate Live TV off the Cable platform completely, and just have a whole network of On Demand?

My Girlfriend asked me a few months back if the Country, one day in the future, could just be On Demand, instead of waiting for schedules, and compiling a Playlist of Programs to watch.

Of course, my answer was "thats preposterous!" but upon thinking about it, and seeing the capabilities of the BBC iPlayer on Virgin, whose to say that every dedicated channel on the VM EPG COULDNT do the same?!

Finally, I came to the conclusion that it is entirely possible and likely that one day, all or many channels could follow suit with the iPlayer, and have that on one network.

If you want TV, you could go to Sky, but if you want programs on when you want them to be, then Virgin Media is the one for you.

The only thing you would see in the way of schedules, would be the waiting for programs to be added.

The only Down side? No ratings. Ratings would be completely abolished (well, on the Cable network they would be, anyway) and ratings could only be applied to programs actually watched ALL day as opposed to the 15 Minute ratings they have.

We have seen it before, you know. When Virgin removed channels like Flaunt, Scuzz etc. It was to bump up their own On Demand service, which doesnt touch the actual live TV Channels offering that music by some distance until all content viewable on the channels is available OD.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

But why would you want to watch 'all our yesterdays' on VM VOD whenever you want to when you can watch current TV whenever you want to with the aid of a PVR.?

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

sorry but that wont ever happen on all channels, most channels get an income from adverts & with VOD thats unlikely to happen.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

My personal feeling is that whilst we'll see far more content on-demand in an ideal world, I do not think it will ever replace all linear channels.

Human nature often means that channels are 'just-on' as wallpaper, or in the background.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

I never really watch live TV anymore, apart from Live footy on a weekend so i would be happy if it did all go on-demand. I usually record anything i want to watch onto my V+ so i can watch them back later at night once i've finished work. Like said above, i dont ever think we'll get all on-demand programming as channels get their income from adverts etc

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

You've not seen ITV's catch up online streams then? They add adverts that you cant skip to the program so that they still get the advertising revenue.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

online is quite different from VOD dont confuse the two.

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 ----------

i prefer to watch actual tv myself, as alot of what i watch isint on VOD, that being said tho there is the odd program that i do watch on VOD. at the end of the day everyone is different & likes different things so before anyone starts being clever, just cuz you like something doesnt mean that everyone else will. btw that last bit is not aimed at you Paul F.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

not really, just the delivery method is different. both are on demand and streamed to you, VM could quite easily have a section of the stream where the fast forward button is disabled

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

The same thing could be done on VOD though, the theory is sound.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

your completely missing the point.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

How?

Can you restate your point so I can be sure were on the same wavelength and not talking at cross purposes.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

tell me what you dont understand & i'l try to be clearer for you.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

OK.

You said

I understand by that that you mean its unlikely to happen on VOD because channels wouldn't get advertising revenue.

In response I mentioned that channels relying on advertising revenue were already placing programs onto a similar on-demand system, namely there website, with the adverts built in and unavoidable

You then state that its different to VOD

To which I state the theory is the same and could be applied to VOD in the same way as it is on the internet.

To which your response is that I'm missing the point!?

How am I missing the point, I have shown a methodology and worked example on a similar system of how channels that rely on advertising income could still get that advertising revenue. As far as I can see this would negate the original reason that you said channels going all VOD wouldnt happen.

What point am I missing?

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

I have to agree - what point?! lol.
Ads could easily be added to any stream, I'd have thought.
Can't ever see all channels becoming VOD though.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

I watch live TV but only for sport its better live.
since the VCR was made about half of TV programmes were watched via play back. that went up too when DVD Recorders was released. Time slip recording just changed every thing on DVD for me. now sky+ and V+ multi tuners means you never need to watch live TV again. Which is why the Next Change in adverts is coming as pointed out in the "simpsons movie" its happens in the US and its starting on SKY "advert banners" during the show yes they may be only for other TV shows but how long before Pepsi or PG tips get a banner running at the bottom of corri on ITV. I remember the product placement on the BBC was getting out of hand. the next shows 10 mins late due to the sport over running and now its 15 mins late because we have sat here watching 5 mins of adverts for BBC radio and the radio times. that no longer happens thanks to VOD. How people with out a PVR put up with a crap service like that god knows (well god answer, o shes got to much work on)

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

Everything I want to see, I record with the V+ and spin through the ads. Can't be asked sitting through 15+ minutes of ads every hour.

As I understood it, regulations state that there should be something like 7 minutes of adverts per hour. During the first episode of The Riches, Virgin 1 had 7 minutes of ads in the very first break!

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

IMO advertising, in general, is just getting completely out of hand and is increasingly getting intolerably invasive.

I can't speak for others but advertising is having the complete different effect on me that it was intended in that anything that is advertised really heavily I think there must be something wrong with it and then go out of my way to avoid it.

Last night, exactly as I was scooping my meal from the frying pan, simultaneously Avon (FFS?) was banging on the front door and somebody from sky was phoning to sell me an extended guarantee.

Sorry I know that's selling and not strictly advertising but the two are merged into the same thing in my brain.

Rant mode off. :)

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

If all we had was VOD, i'd run out of good programs to watch. I should imagine most people are like me and search through the VOD, pick out the good stuff, watch it and then have to put normal TV on and watch what ever because they have already watched all the good stuff.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

it's always best to think before you speak

You're making an assumption that everything on VOD is repeated - which it wouldn't be the case if there was no live TV

yet another argument for thinking before you speak

as pointed out - there's no reason compulsory ad's couldn't appear on VOD - in fact I would be happy for ad's to appear on VOD if it meant stacks more content (and of course it would) - might even benefit advertisers since we can currently skip ads from live TV but with compulsary ads on VOD we wouldn't

---------- Post added at 11:00 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

You could use VOD for wallpaper more easily - so that's not a case for keeping Live TV

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 ----------

there's absolutely no difference when it comes to compulsary advertising - which was your point

.

---------- Post added at 11:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

meaning?

if more stuff (you like) was on VOD (highly likely to happen) then you'd watch VOD more than Live - ergo no reason to keep live TV

---------- Post added at 12:45 ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 ----------

You're not missing anything - Cable Guy just dropped a bo****k about the advertising and he's hoping you forgot - Cable Guy :rolleyes: gawd preserve us

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

What about bandwidth? If every house is watching a different program at different times, then VM couldn't cope. Just look at the slow broadband connections.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

people will always want to watch live events pretty well as-it-happens

although should VM decide to go 100% VOD there's no real reason to prevent live events being added as they happen & played near live & still have advantage of also being available on demand later (even if it's only few minutes later after dropping the wife at bingo :))

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

I can't see that theres a viable market out there for people to only watch programmes on demand (POD! - I'm copyrighting that!). I know enough people who struggle to understand how PVR's work, and I can imagine there being an awful lot of older people who would not embrace this new way of watching TV.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

Shame V+ dumps the buffer everytime something happens so (unlike my Philips) you can't delay the whole evenings viewing and flick back and forth thru the buffer at will

with V+ you have to record every programme - start every programme - then delete every programme

on my Philips you just press pause - one day - one day

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

there's nothing inherently good about programmes just because they are broadcast in a schedule - e.g. the exact same programme on VOD wouldn't be any less good

i think that before you can even discuss VOD becoming a threat to broadcast TV then you should start with the premise that the content would be the same/similar/equal (e.g. it goes without saying that if the latest movies were only ever shown in a post box then we'd all want one)

---------- Post added at 13:53 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

more servers - again i think we need to assume VOD will be up-to-it before we can discuss it being a threat to broadcast

the only thing for discussion really is whether you prefer watching scheduled broadcast or whther you prefer to watch stuff whenever you like

from that the answer is really clear cut - and a good analogy is:

Do you prefer radio or CD?

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

the one point I think everyone here has missed - and was discussed albeit briefly on Steve Wright's radio 2 show abouyt a year ago.

If everyone watched their TV "On-Demand" then approx 95% of the social interaction at work coffe breaks would cease.

Q. What is the most popular topic of conversation around the office coffe machine?

A. "Did you watch XYZ last night wasn't it brilliant/rubbish blah blah blah"

if TV goes completely on-demnad,we as a nation - who already interact less and less what with online shopping meaning you don't even have to go to the supermarket anymore. will have less reason to interact.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

it's a valid point - but 'social issues' are not going to influence peoples individual decisions - only governments are in a position to do that by denying choice

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

i like to watch actual tv, however alot of ppl on here seem to think that cuz they do or dont that everyone else likes the same as they do. everyones different.

---------- Post added at 22:40 ---------- Previous post was at 22:38 ----------

& your point is ? i stand by what i said & if you read what i said above, thats another reason. not everyone likes VOD as their only source of tv, some ppl like to watch actual tv.

---------- Post added at 22:41 ---------- Previous post was at 22:40 ----------

agreed

---------- Post added at 22:41 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

but we have the choice & that way everyone is catered for ;)

---------- Post added at 22:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

that would mean the end of their channels like Bravo & Living etc which they get an income for from Sky, NTL Ireland etc & VM only cares about money so i cant see them axing their own channels.

---------- Post added at 22:44 ---------- Previous post was at 22:43 ----------

my point exactly.

---------- Post added at 22:46 ---------- Previous post was at 22:44 ----------

dont forget tho that thats how most channels get their income. at least we dont live in America where they have twice (if not more) as many adverts as us.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

yeah we heard - because TV has nice stuff on - like VOD can't possibly :rolleyes:

you mean when you said "sorry but that wont ever happen on all channels, most channels get an income from adverts & with VOD thats unlikely to happen"
we all pooped it because there absolutely nothing preventing advertising on VOD - but you're standing by that right?

yeah - like you said - TV has nice stuff on - right


next

.

---------- Post added at 00:07 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

ppppppt - i didn't make this stuff up - honest :D

.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

i stand by what i said yes & yet again cuz you like VOD you seem to think that everyone does. everyone is different & likes different things.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

I think the-cable-guy is just having trouble articulating his view.

Whilst it would be technically and commercially viable to go all VOD at some point many people just like to sit down and watch with little idea what is actually going to be on and this is indeed how many shows pick up popularity.

A similar although not identical parallel to this is music radio, we could all listen to most of the content via other means but we still listen to radio because the mix has been chosen for us and there is always the possibility that we will stumble across something we didnt know about before.

Whilst this could still be done through VOD via either manually browsing the programs or some random select feature most people are lazy and would prefer it to be just there in front of them.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

its nowt to do with laziness its to do with preference ;)

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

I'm sure you're right - he definately prefers TV - he just don't know why

Someone has mentioned TV as video wallpaper and on reflection it would probably always survive because of that at least - in the same way radio does

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

Not watched live tv (appart from News 24) in months - I've got Sky+ ;)

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

Possibly not but you get the idea.:D

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

lol oh brother

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

I said that schedules would still exist on when things would be added. (IE Emmerdale could be added dead on 7pm, Corrie at 7:30pm, Eastenders at 8pm, The Bill at 8pm...

That way, you dont run the risk of temptation getting the better of you, and you watching all the Eastenders like you would an omnibus, and having nothing to watch for 6 days.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

An all on demand future is I believe inevitable, (but through IPTV boxes). I can't see it happening on Virgin's platform though, as they have a pitifully small amount of content and the UI is absolutely abysmal. Compare the ugly BBC Micro style design in super chunky low-res to browsing TV shows and movies in super slick high-def on an Apple TV. They're worlds apart.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

The problem with just VOD imo would be that niche programs with small ratings would be made less and less as they would become financially in-viable, that is on channels outside of the BBC which of course I presume in this scenario would still be publicly funded.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

Well I guess at some point you may be right - but I personally don't think it will happen in my lifetime - and I'm not that old!

There are too many people that simply enjoy putting the telly on and watching it - going all VOD makes an otherwise easy process one with menus, choices and effort. So if you are right, then I guess the benefit is that all TV watching will decrease.

The other point is that all-VOD has to be downloaded, streamed or somehow transferred to every individual recipient. And whilst technology in this area moves at an alarmingly fast rate - we are a long way away from point-to-point VOD being as bandwidth efficient as point-to-multipoint broadcast.

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

I think that's the whole argument for BBC licencing fee in a nutshell - but it's not just a problem with VOD - it's a problem for scheduled TV too

---------- Post added at 00:14 ---------- Previous post was at 00:07 ----------

There's no real reason we couldn't have a schedule created by a simple algorythmn - done properly it would consider things you prefer which is more than the current programming schedule does

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

Yeah, but I record them and watch them later anyway - so it's not a major issue for me.

Plus, the 'copy' SCART (which as you know now outputs whatever 'live' channel you're watching) is connected to my Sony DVD recorder, which has all the functions you mention, and upscales the output to HD... so not only can I record 3 channels at a time, but I also have a 'proper' pause function for live TV. :tu:

Re: Could Virgin Eliminate Live TV?
 

Still it would be nice if V+ adopt std PVR functionality - it could be a killer machine