Police return fire in shoot-out
 

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

i dont fancy that much ...sounds scary

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Seems very scary. I hope they get it under control pretty quickly.

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I will second that.

The usual suspects will be along shortly to claim the police had no right to shoot at that poor gun man. :rolleyes:

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Now the initial sarcasm is out of my system it does seem quite impressive the amount of armed officers the Met can deploy quickly to incidents like this.

With a bit of luck seeing this *might* dissuade one or two people from wandering about with a gun tucked in their waistband.

Incidentally how come none of these people ever seem to injure themselves with negligent discharges?

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Indeed.

All we need now is for the ******* to be detained and the full force of the law to be set on him. So that 2 months with 1 month off for good behaviour and compensation for being put in a double occupancy cell. :LOL:


But :tu: to the police for there VERY fast response

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Seems like they acted very well to this one.

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the thing is the Met has quite a few armed squads out and about, there are normally 2 just in Brixton and another 2 in the Walthamstow area then a couple in the City and west end areas so getting to Chelsea wouldnt take that long.

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And Labour keep telling us crime is going down...yeah right!! Only a fool would believe that.

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Reported crime probably is going down. The fact that so many people don't bother to report crime anymore doesn't seem to worry our glorious leaders. :mad:

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At least no one carrying a table leg got shot this time. :rolleyes:

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But this particular offender is dead...

Link

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Live by the gun, die by the gun

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Pac...re-incarnated? :p:

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Hindsight eh? Wonderful isn't it?

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All things considered and given the amount of gun crime the police have to deal with these days, I'd say their record is pretty good. Yes, any fatality of or serious injury to an innocent person is a tragedy but the police will never be perfect and sadly that's a price some poor people will inevitably pay for the society we now live in.

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Seems it was a barrister who flipped. :dozey:

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There are mixed reports that he was also a war veteran so probably PTSD played a factor if its true.

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Yep thats what happens when you have a gun fight with armed police and try to kill them.

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3890115.ece

Looks like this guy may have been a vicitm of the sort of family breakdown he and his wife specialised in professionally.

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Didn't take too long.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...men/article.do

Yep. Getting hit by a shotgun, that wouldn't be lethal. Might tickle a bit. :rolleyes:

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There will always be those that think the rights of the offender out way the rights of the Victims. The man was shooting at people, I would expect the police to take the action required and if that means dropping him with a bullet so be it.

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Whilst you're undoubtedly correct, I think you might cut the man a bit of slack seeing as how he's just lost his son in pretty tragic circumstances. I don't expect he's thinking particularly clearly at the moment.

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I'm sure he wasn't, but I'm sure the police weren't thinking about that at the time, just stopping him before he shot someone.

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I agree entirely, but a quote from the man's father isn't really evidence of a backlash against the police, or putting the rights of offenders above victims. I means, he's bound to be pretty upset and looking for someone to blame isn't he? You can't really expect him to come out and say yes the police did an excellent job, they had no choice.

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Exactly, especially when you consider the alternative is to realise that his son was in such a state that he did pose a threat and did need to be stopped, which must be an awful thing for any parent to come to terms with, and I'd say pretty impossible to do just after they've lost their son.
Imagine it, you're a parent, your job no matter how old your children are is to be there, look after and protect them, and your son gets into a state where he has to be killed. You weren't able to protect him, that on top of losing him must be so heart wrenching, words can't describe it.

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I don't see that he got into a state where he had to be killed, or that anyone can ever get into such a state. The decision was taken to kill him - he was shot five times, hitting his brain, heart, liver, and a major blood vessel. Kind of puts Annie Oakley to shame. We'll now never know his state of mind or the events that led to his actions.

What worries me is that everyone finds it perfectly acceptable :erm:

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one shot one kill only works in the movies.
the ARU's role is to stop the person who is threatening their lives and the lives of the public.
You can't even say he was shot in the places which have been reported as damaged because once a bullet enters a body it can go anywhere.

There was a man with a shot gun shooting at the police and other houses, who didn't respond to the negotiators.
The only option the police have in that situation is to stop the person by shooting them.

Now, I don't know if you're saying they should have just left him to merrily carry on shooting out of his windows at whatever he liked, or maybe you just just think 5 shots was excessive, in which case, why do you think it's excessive?
There was a 7 year old girl in the US not that long ago who was shot 7 times in the head with a 9mm gun from a foot or two away and survived.
A friend of mine accidently shot herself in the head and thankfully got away with just a nasty scar along her hairline, a rather freaked out daughter, and a very appologetic soon-to-be ex-husband as it was one of his hot empty cases that went down the back of her neck just at the wrong moment.

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The Police don't have the luxury of hindsight, they deal with the immediate. In this case it was a guy who either lost the plot or had a bad day. If he was ex forces, he should have realised a shotgun is not the best weapon for target practice. Either way, firing a loaded weapon in public is not the best way to announce your presence to the world.

Xaccers is quite correct. This one shot one kill rubbish is for the movies. You cannot "wound" someone in a case like this, it was necessary to take him down. A wounded animal is the most dangerous animal on earth.

Unfortunately, in the circumstances, I believe the Police acted correctly.

Re: Police return fire in shoot-out
 

In the first link.

.

In the second link.

If you cannot talk to someone who is shooting at police officers and anyone else in the street what can anyone expect the police to do?They had to protect the rather larger grouping of Chelsea residents.

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Plan A - negotiate. Plan B - hit the ******* with as many bullets as you can. I just think there are more options between A and B, especially when it is very likely that the person wants to die.

Like said - you all find it so acceptable. So clinical in your rationale. I find that scary :shrug: Anyway - each to their own :)

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Such as?
Using Taser/Baton rounds would mean getting a little closer to the gunman than you'd want to and there is still no guarantee they'd work first time.
CS/Pepper Spray don't always work, especially on people who are disturbed and as he was already firing randomly stopping him from seeing clearly wouldn't have had much effect.
Stun grenades were seemingly used but when they entered the flat if he still had his weapon in hand the Police would need to shoot him until he was no longer a risk.
As has been said shooting to wound isn't a realistic option and shoot to stop almost always ends up in the death of the target.
There is always a chance as well that one or more of the wounds were caused in the two previous exchanges of gunfire.

Still it's good to see that well respected and internationally known commentator on the use of Police tactic, Amanda Platell of the Daily Mail :rolleyes: thinks shooting a shotgun out a window isn't that dangerous.

It's acceptable because thats the way it is. The Met don't go around shooting people right, left and centre. They aren't some bunch of trigger happy rambos. If they were shooting 4-5 people a week I'd be worried.

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They killed him because there was no room in prison. They would have had to turf out the apple core thrower in order to accomodate him. ;)

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LMAO.:D

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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...tle-probe.html

Unprofessional? Insensitive? Yep
Funny? I have to say I sniggered but then again I'm a bad person.

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Nothing more than alligations - and given the source, I wonder if its some sour grapes, or someone trying to stir up trouble.

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There's some pretty obscure song titles in that list.

He's either very creative, has a massive music back catalogue on his I-pod or , most likely, somebody has read through his statement and then googled song titles to fit his statement, then made a complaint.

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Hmmm, having read the songs used (allegedly) I can see why they would be used as phrases whilst describing a shooting even if it wasn't the intention to slip them into the conversation.

Personal guesstimate is he planned one or two and told a colleague he was doing it for a bet / luagh and the rest have been googled to fit what he said.

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Alleged song list here about half way down

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-inquest.html

The Daily Mail are almost wetting themselves in excitement about possibly getting a few cops fired and have gone through the evidence given looking for links to songs.

Their 'journalism' reaches levels like

Other highlights include saying "shut up", which is accepted was shouted by the gunman was a deliberate reference to a black eyed peas song. So as well as the cops the gunman was in on it as well!

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It's comical. On the one hand the police chiefs are getting apocalyptic about budget cuts, on the other they have money to waste on various PR offensives and nonsense like this.

I have read the inquest testimony, there is nothing in it, at all, that is abnormal.

This is absolutely pathetic and a disgusting waste of public money. That guy should be at work, not sitting on his backside while a media fuelled witch hunt goes on. The Met are a disgrace for referring this, the IPCC a waste of space for entertaining it.

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Daily Mail in being useless, biased and as anti-Police as the nearest black clad, masked up anarchist shocker!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/ar...-officers.html

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Scant comfort for the maligned and their families I imagine.

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I don't suppose the printed version of that 'apology' was anything like as prominent as the original smear. :rolleyes:

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A side column on page 11 seemingly. Obviously I don't know for sure as I can't pick up a copy of the paper without a full CBRN suit.

I had a lucky escape tonight, I was looking at the Daily Mail website but managed to switch to viewing some porn before my girlfriend came in and caught me looking at something really embarrassing.

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Now that's a real girlfriend for you! :D

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One that goes mental when she catches you looking at the Daily Mail Online? Absolutely, that's one classy bird. Someone who's not afraid to take a stand against internet filth. :D

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It's understandable, though.

Viewing the Mail online is just the first step on the road to depravity - next thing you know, you are reading the Sun (for the funny articles, obviously), and it's only a matter of time before you are subscribing to the Daily Star and going on EDL marches........

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and from then on it's a steep downward slope to the Guardian.... :D

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why haven't they used the officers names ,i notice they use their numbers ,any specific reason or just a way of not apologising by name properly

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For the inquests all the officers are identified by a number or call sign. The names of firearms officers involved in incidents are very rarely released.

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Thanks Derek ,thats ok then i just thought it may have been the mail being a bit shirty because they were wrong and had to apologize

but then the tiny bit of space devoted ammounts to the same thing