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No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thread)
Discussion began here:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...-page-264.html EDIT: Discussion summary: Quote:
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
i would start looking for traces of phorm cookies on your machine heed
also interseting to note that http://status-cable.virginmedia.com/...?ticket=140408 has you down as being in maintainance for this week (Phorm moving there kit in?) |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
You can check if your web page has been modified en route here
http://vancouver.cs.washington.edu/#results The page also explains the mods. More information about associated research here http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...n-transit.html |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Anyone know what the cookies are?
I've looked for phorm and webwise. I don't see anything for them. ---------- Post added at 12:09 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ---------- Quote:
It shows me as being fine. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Pete has a very good description of the cookies here: http://www.dephormation.org.uk/cookie_analysis.html ---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ---------- Quote:
That looks at modifications done to the actual page contents... phorm, as far as we know, does not do that. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Hmm, I don't see anything webwise related. A few from VM as well as one from adserver.virginmedia.com and allyours.virginmedia.com
EDIT: I just installed FF2 for the first time an hour ago, so clean install. Checked cookies and nothing there out of the ordinary. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Did the ff results from pete's site come back ok?
I would still take screenshots and make any notes of what your experiencing even if it is nothing it may always help you in the future just dont modify anything to change timestamps e.t.c |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Heed, what is your location?
If there is a covert trial underway it would be localised. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
I don't have a webwise cookie :shrug:
I can't really see how removing a cookie would lose you internet connectivity? |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Yes, the FF2 results came back okay.
I'm connected through the middlesborough servers. Gavin, it's not removing a cookie that loses me connectivity -- it's having phorm.com blocked. ---------- Post added at 14:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ---------- The odd thing is that if I block 88.208.250.66, 88.208.250.85 and 207.44.186.90 I can connect fine. But if I block the domain name phorm.com that's when everything dies. Those 3 IP's are supposed to be phorm.com IP's, so I don't understand why I don't see the same behaviour when I just have those 3 blocked. Could there be more IP's associated with phorm.com that are not publically known? |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Ahh, sorry, my mistake.
How are you blocking it? Via your hosts file? |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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I really would like to know how and why blocking phorm IPs and phorm sites should interfere with net access, seemingly at the 3rd hop. I'm a visitor here, trying to find out as much as I can about Phorm and Nebuad before they start up in my country. I've been lurking here for weeks. I've a suspicion that success in the UK and the USA would make Australia and New Zealand prime targets. I'm not sure we have any protection from this sort of abuse either. I'm a malware remover and I've known a lot about 121 Media, ContextPlus, PeopleonPage and Apropos for a long time through removing their less than helpful products from victims machines. It's an issue I feel strongly about. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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The cookie discussion started as an aside just to make a check to see if anythng turned up -- nothing did, as far as I can see. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Can you post your complete network settings please - I'm interested in what DNS servers you are using.
windoze ipconfig /all linux ifconfig -a && cat /etc/hosts I'd like to test this out. Cheers ---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ---------- Quote:
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Tracing those 3 IPs, I can't see a link to Phorm.
88.208.250.66 > live-servers.net > Fasthosts 88.208.250.85 > live-servers.net > Fasthosts 207.44.186.90 > ThePlanet So i'm guessing sites not hosted or routed through those companies should still work? |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp. C:\Documents and Settings\Heed>ipconfig /all Windows IP Configuration Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : xxxxxxxxx Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection: Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : xxxxxxxxx Mod edit (Gavin): IP address removed for your security. Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.252.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 82.11.28.1 DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 62.254.64.20 DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 194.168.4.100 194.168.8.100 NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 18 April 2008 09:33:37 Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 23 April 2008 11:24:13 C:\Documents and Settings\Heed> As for settings, I'm not sure. Comodo just allows you specify an address, a range or a domain name. I believe it's simply blocking all communication with the domain/I.P. that's listed. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
which hosts did you get those IPs from? webwise.com or something?
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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http://www.all-nettools.com/toolbox NsLookup |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Yeah, but what hostnames did you lookup to get those IPs?
webwise.com does resolve to 88.208.250.66, but I think that's for the webhosting rather anything else. There are probably other hosts that resolve there (that Fasthosts are hosting) |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Have you tried using a non ntl DNS server instead ?
If you're looking at anonymity/getting away from phorm then why the heck are you using ntl name servers ? Use someone elses and retest - let us know how you get on |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Those are IP's that have been passed around in the big phorm thread. But really, the relevant point is that blocking the phorm.com domain leads me to have no connectivity. ---------- Post added at 15:02 ---------- Previous post was at 14:59 ---------- Quote:
You have any handy? As for why, well I didn't think I would need to switch DNS servers in order to avoid phorm. ---------- Post added at 15:08 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ---------- Okay, I switched to OpenDNS servers and have functionality with phorm.com blocked. What does this tell us? |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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If I were in charge I would make all your DNS requests run through virgin's poisioned DNS servers and borg the lot of you. Phorm is good for you :) For that matter re-route every tcp/udp request on port 53. The only people I can't handle are people like myself who route all traffic through an ssh tunnel bounced through either new york or london. Some DNS servers for you do a whois.net and pick one of the billions of open DNS servers.... nslookup > server NS1.UK2.NET Default server: NS1.UK2.NET Address: 83.170.64.2#53 > news.bbc.co.uk Server: NS1.UK2.NET Address: 83.170.64.2#53 Non-authoritative answer: news.bbc.co.uk canonical name = newswww.bbc.net.uk. Name: newswww.bbc.net.uk Address: 212.58.226.29 > |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
I think blocking those IPs block all/large amounts of servers run by Fasthosts and ThePlanet. Loads of hostnames will resolve to those IPs.
Can you block by hostname instead? |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
ps Can you give the firewall rules that you are using to block
#88.208.248.102 - 88.208.250.85 That's virtually 3 class C's that you are trying to block maybe you have your netmask screwed. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Please forget about IP's for a second -- I've had those blocked for over a week with no problems and now only have phorm.com blocked.
As I said above, switching to OpenDNS servers gives me connectivity back when phorm.com is blocked. ---------- Post added at 15:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:14 ---------- Quote:
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Yes, that seems most likely. I originally thought it was a DNS problem (described in my first post) because it looks just like one. But what can we make out of every DNS lookup being bounced to somewhere in phorm.com? Is that part of the tech spec. on this equipment? EDIT: And wait a minute. Phorm kit is not even supposed to be on VM's network, right? I'm sure I've seen VM responses that they are "still evaluating" and have no kit in place yet. Someone correct me if I'm wrong and VM haven't denied the kit is in-place/has been trialed/will be trialed. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
I would say so as when its in place and has been mentioned in other peoples post's you cant escape phorms kit as it goes through it, might be perfectly simple explination but as i keep stating keep as much info as you can (for all you know you could be in a secret trial or otherwise) and have no protection for liabel damages at a future date, however secretive phorms kit is.
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Well I gave this a try
#$iptables -I POSTROUTING -t nat -s 0/0 -d 88.208.248.0/24 -p all -j DROP -v #$iptables -I POSTROUTING -t nat -s 0/0 -d 88.208.249.0/24 -p all -j DROP -v #$iptables -I POSTROUTING -t nat -s 0/0 -d 88.208.250.0/24 -p all -j DROP -v And all seems to work so I'm still with the dodgy DNS servers theory. Block phorm should not block internet access completely. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
would be interesting to know if other people in your area are having this same issue also.
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
I'm confused, who is The Jackal?! :notopic:
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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If you can when you say your internet is blocked can you do a netstat -n so that we can see exactly where your machine is trying to connect to. Repeat when connected. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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C:\Documents and Settings\Heed>netstat -n Active Connections Proto Local Address Foreign Address State TCP 82.11.31.190:4503 208.69.34.230:80 ESTABLISHED C:\Documents and Settings\Heed>netstat -n Active Connections Proto Local Address Foreign Address State TCP 82.11.31.190:4503 208.69.34.230:80 ESTABLISHED No difference with phorm.com blocked or unblocked. I'm back on the default DNS servers for testing purposes. And as soon as phorm.com is blocked I can't resolve domain names and as soon as it's ublocked I can. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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I don't know much about windows so maybe someone else can help get the tools that you need to monitor tcp connections. I used to use a tcp/ip monitor but for the love of life can't remember what it was called. Good luck - Let us know where it fails as I'd love to play with this further. Thankyou |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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I've done another tracert and I'm still showing a fail (time out) on my third hop to midd-t3core-1b-ge-010-0.inet.ntl.com when phorm.com is blocked. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Yeh that's the one I used. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Okay, running tcpmon now. With phorm.com blocked it shows nothing when I try to hit a site -- no connections nothing in the log.
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
And what do you see in the logs when you ping the bbc as follows
ping 212.58.226.20 ---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ---------- oops tcpmon doesn't monitor pings. instead try telnet 212.58.226.20 80 You should see the ack sent and possibly an established state |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
With phorm.com ublocked:
16:41:11 | 82. 11. 31.190: 4750 | 212. 58.226. 20:HTTP | established With phorm.com blocked: 16:43:25 | 82. 11. 31.190: 4751 | 212. 58.226. 20:HTTP | established |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Within the terminal telnet 212.58.226.20 80 hit ctrl-c several times hit the return key and you should see the HTML from the bbc site. And when you're blocked you can't do nslookups ? ---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:48 ---------- ps what happens when you put this in your browser ? http://212.58.226.20/ |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
If I hit ctrl+c or enter I just get "Bad request" and "connection to host lost".
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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http://212.58.226.20/ |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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www.webwise.bt.com - they used to be on Phorm related IP's looked after in Houston Texas by GODADDY, but now they are with the cheap budget hosting site Fasthosts. When Fasthosts went down earlier this week BT Webwise pages went down too. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Actually, I can reach it in Opera but not IE or FF2. I'm going to do a machine reboot and double check. Hmm, after a machine reboot I can still get there in Opera, but not IE and FF2. This might be somehow related to the behaviour I noted earlier where if I visited a site successfully I could then get back most of the time after phorm.com was blocked. EDIT: Finally loaded in FF2 without any images except the banner title (showing a lookup pending for newsimg.bbc.co.uk). Have got the banner title but no more to show up in IE. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Can I add a final note ? I don't know how you're blocking those IP ranges but it's not going to help. If I were to design the phorm infrastructure I would have to build my application servers and message queuing system within Virgin's infrastructure. Pushing each request out especially if they are managed by some small outfit like fasthosts is going to overload their network and imply latency to the end user. Hmmm come to think about Virgin doesn't give a toss about the end user experience so they might adopt this model anyway ;) But ideally message pooling within Virgin's network is going to be the best way to implement phorm and if that's the case there's going to be no escaping phorm :) |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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I'm simply blocking phorm.com via my firewall -- Comodo. Yes, DNS seems to be the culprit, but the question is why does it fail only when I have phorm.com blocked? It's unlikely to be the firewall itself as I've tried blocking other domains like bbc.co.uk or google.com and things function fine except when trying to reach the blocked domain -- as it should be. But switch google.com to phorm.com and DNS gets borked. Also, please forget about the IP ranges. Since this morning the only thing I have blocked is the domain name phorm.com -- that's where I'm seeing the problem. As for helping to keep phorm at bay or not, I don't know -- but it just seems like a prudent thing to do -- certainly not something that should have a negative impact unless trying to visit phorm.com. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kbyiers/phormblock.jpg |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
Guys maybe a trace using wireshark might show us something.
Do a trace zip it and PM it to me , Do 2 tests with blocking and without blocking phorm.com Make sure you shut down other internet apps to reduce the amount of data captured. http://www.wireshark.org/ |
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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kbyiers/PhormCapture.rar |
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
I tried blocking www.phorm.com via comodo and no connection was possible including email etc, it just shut the connection completely, removed block on phorm and all retuned to normal.
Then blocked other sites via comodo and no connection problems at all. Weird. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Thank you! I was beginning to feel like I was fighting a one man up-hill battle to show that this isn't some run of the mill connection issue. A confirmation of the issue just as described is exactly what I needed. :) And yes, weird, indeed. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
I have phorm.com and webwise.net in hosts file but this doesn't cause any problems, someone posted that they have phorm.com blocked in router and have no problems, is it possible that comodo is the problem, although it only has a problem with phorm.com.
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
It could be comodo but why would comodo deney access to everything just when you put phorm.com in and not when you put anything else in?.
im installing it and going to test it out for myself now :). |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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I know some people have said they have phorm.com blocked and have no problems, but it might be area dependant. Also, it only seems to happen if you're using the default NTL DNS servers. The issue disappears with phorm.com blocked via Comodo if I switch to another DNS server. So, if some of those not seeing a problem are using non NTL DNS servers that would make sense. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
I don't know if it is relevant to the discussion here, but a response from BT management quoted on the BT forum states that if a user adds www.webwise.net to their hosts file with a resolved address of 127.0.0.1, whilst opted in to Phorm during the forthcoming BT trials, they will lose all internet access. Would adding to the hosts file have the same effect as blocking? If so, this does begin to smell like a secret trial, perhaps on a small number of ubrs?
http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=0&start=135 |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
I,ve posted on comodo forums about this, will see if any answers are forthcoming, a bit sceptical re comodo forums due to the excessive fanboy attacks from previous questions placed.
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
I just read that from your post in the monster phorm thread, John.
The thing is, he only mentions traffic on port 80. So far, if it happens all ports seem to be affected, so that doesn't seem to be the same thing unless he's mistaken. Tony, good idea. I've never been to their forums, so I hope you get an intelligent response. |
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
When I tested this earlier today it was using NTL's DNS servers (194.168.4.100 194.168.8.100) and I was unable to duplicate the problem when blocking phorm.com in hosts, or at router.
Does the same thing happen if you block webwise.net? |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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That's interesting. Switching to opendns fixed the issue for me. I don't use a router, though. Just modem into LAN port. ---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 20:06 ---------- Quote:
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Will have to checkout the router to ensure that all is setup ok |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
I'm getting the same behaviour with Comodo.
I _think_ it's to do with the phorm.com hostname resolving to multiple IPs :- 88.208.250.66 88.208.250.85 and 207.44.186.90 I suspect Comodo isn't blocking the individual IPs, it's blocking the whole range from 88.208.250.66 to 207.44.186.90 - which encompasses the VM DNS servers (were your alternate DNS servers outside this range ?) and also the modem config page (192.168.100.1). I tested this by blocking news.ntli.net (resolves to 62.253.170.163 and 80.5.182.99) and that stops me accessing www.google.co.uk (uses IPs 64.233.167.##) and www.namesdatabase.com (IP = 67.129.97.31) but DNS still works as does the modem config page and most other web pages. Not an exhaustive test , but i think that's the problem. BTW, adding the 3 individual IPs that phorm.com resolves to (not as a range!!) does block phorm.com without the adverse effects. ;) |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phrom thre
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Just block 88.208.250.85, 207.44.186.90 & 88.208.250.66 |
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
Just tried again after resetting router (seems config was corrupted somehow) and now am using opendns, with phorm.com set in blocked address in comodo no problems.
So this only occurs when phorm is blocked in comodo and ntl dns is used. |
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Can the OP try just blocking the IPs instead of FQDN. ---------- Post added at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:51 ---------- Quote:
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
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Yes, that does seem to be the issue. I tried your test of blocking news.ntli.net and those sites you listed are unreachable. Just blocking the 3 phorm IP's doesn't cause any problems. I'm glad that seems to solve the mystery. The odd thing is this just began happening last night, so I'm guessing Comodo did an auto update last night that introduced the bug. I've had phorm.com blocked for over a week now. Thanks to all for their input. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
You might wan't to delete the cap files now
As it does seem its a SW fault of that firewall. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
Fobic, nicely spotted!! :clap::clap:
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
:hyper:If there was a category for "Most fascinating thread if you're a Techie", then this one would win!:D
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
Read this thread with a great amount of interest - just finished setting up my laptop after a complete nuke and re-install. Symptoms were the same-ish, could connect to network (wired or wireless), get an IP address, then nothing. Couldn't even log into router. Phorm.com had been blocked for several weeks. After shutting down all programs like Comodo, Spybot, and AVG problem still remained.
As other machine on network (not running Comodo) worked fine :doh: , assumed it was a tcp/ip error. After an attempted repair using a borrowed disc failed, bit the bullet and used the recovery partition, and all now is fine. I eliminated the firewall as the problem remained after I had shut down the firewall... Is it possible that Comodo was still having an effect after being shutdown, or started in safe mode? Just interested as it all adds to my knowledge... |
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Most firewalls leave processes running when you close the user interface down (by clicking on the "quit" or "exit" menu items from the tool tray icon). In the case of Comodo , it leaves a process named cmdagent.exe running, and this seems to keep on blocking whatever the firewall was blocking before you quit it. I've not tried starting in Safe Mode so I have no clue how Comodo behaves in that instance. One thing that surprised me :- there is an option in Comodo Settings to "automatically start the application with Windows (Recommended)". Unticking this , I expected the firewall not to start up on a reboot and thus not block anything. However, cmdagent.exe still gets started and continues to do its blocking - it's just the user interface that isn't started. Weird. Looks like the only way to test if unexpected behaviour is down to Comodo, is to uninstall it :rolleyes: (unless anyone knows how to kill protected processes in XP ?) |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
Check services and see if there are any there called comodo or similar and disable them.
R/C my computer/manage/services and appications/services and you will get a list of all services that start with windows. R/C and change start up settings. You could also try process explorer to identify what comodo runs :- http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sys...sExplorer.mspx |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
I remember that I did try starting in safe mode, with exactly the same result - could get on network and get IP address, but unable to get out with IE or Firefox. When I shut Comodo down I did it from the systray icon. The same thing happened on several networks, but I am unable to check anything as it is all gone... I have re-installed, so might try later to repeat and investigate further.
Thanks for the replies so far. |
Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
is comodo designed to use hostnames in blocking rules? typically when configuring firewalls you always should use ip addresses and not dns names.
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Re: No internet connectivity when phorm.com is blocked (split from monster phorm thre
All this other testing of telnet etc does not use port 80. Only port 80 traffic is intercepted by the L7 switch.
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