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ID cards rethink to be unveiled
So the Government has decided to put even more data at risk and package it in a small easy to lose device. No doubt the Lib Dems will sit on the fence over this one as well, Lets face it just like Europe this is important enough to require a vote in the house.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7280495.stm Problem with the unelected pretender Brown is that he says one thing and then does the opposite. Therefor the fact he hinted this Quote:
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Yet more privacy intrusion, where will it end, perhaps getting rid of this DUD government will be start.
As a lifelong socialist it hurts me to say it. But then again 'New Labour' has never been the 'Real Deal' has it. If only there was a realistic alternative that looked to be, even slightly, worth voting for. :rolleyes: |
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Rumour has it that Bliar and his cohorts originally gained their inspiration for New Labour from the 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers".... :D
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http://www.libdems.org.uk/noidcards/ Anyway, I've always been of the view that the ID cards plan was unworkable, so it's nice to see it being chipped away at. My Get An Irish Passport plan is looking good... |
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Is that an attempt to make the party look bigger, two IDs per MP?
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Leafing through this proposal, it seems that if you renew your British passport post-2011 you'll have trot along to one of their enrollment centres for the biometric wossnames. I think I'll be renewing my passport a bit before that, or just getting the Irish one. Not sure how they're going to force ID card enrollment on those people who don't need a UK passport but aren't foreigners, baggage handlers etc. I suspect a staged series of attempts to make life impossible without one, unless you're rich or a criminal*.
* Neither of whom need to get a job or a bank account, one suspects. |
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An Irish passport? Now there's an idea BB, get the passport, wait for the BNP to come into power, claim your £50K and leave the country, then come back once the country has become bankrupt and live like a King off the money you made :D
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I might exercise my right of return to Israel if the BNP come to power. Seek political asylum there for a more peaceful life. Of course, the BNP like the nice Aryan Irish* but not the dirty foreign Jews. Still, no one said Nazi wannabes have to make sense.
* who count as 'indigenous British', for some reason. Not sure the Irish see it that way, they've spent several centuries fighting not to be considered British, after all. |
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Growing number of morons, more like. 'I'm unrepresented in British politics and I feel my country is no longer my own, so I'm going to vote for idiots with a track record in failing to represent their constituents and a foreign political ideology so completely alien to British history and values that we spent five years and hundreds of thousands of lives fighting it tooth and nail'. Yeah, great idea. Big up the white working class.
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While i am no fan of the BNP i think it is a **** party pure and simple calling all it's supporters moron's may be playing into their hands. While they might not be the brightest bulb in the room they do attract people that are disenfranchised much like the nazi party in the 1930's and for that reason we should see them as a threat.
As for ID cards yes of course go for it i mean the last few months have been so kind to the government and it's data storage pracices i would have no problem having everything in one neat tidy and easy to lose package :rolleyes:. |
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Stupid thing is i used to support the ID card idea but after the last few months how can any sane person be happy with the thought of it. Only this government with it's complete arrogance and disregard for the british public could even think about carrying on with the scheme. Yeah so glad GB took over cause since then i really has changed and i think we do stand a real chance of getting rid of these moron's posthaste.
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ID cards could be introduced to be useful in day to day life, secure and therefore help tackle certain crimes etc.
Unfortunately, the first step towards this needs to be showing that you're a responsible and trustworthy government with a track record of ensuring what is planned is actually delivered, and of course Labour have fallen at this first hurdle. |
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what happens when we are made to carry id cards at all times, this is what worries me??:erm:
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In principle i have no major problem with the idea of an ID card and having to carry it all the time wouldn't bother me either. But until we have a government that has shown a lot more competency then this one at holding onto data securely then i am not prepared to support an ID card. Labour only has itself to blame for this and it can't even harp back to the previous administration that still gets trotted out now and then.
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Imagine a single card, used for driving license, passport, debit/credit card (you pop it in the machine, it asks you which account you want to use, then for 4 digits from a 6 or 8 digit pin number), store loyalty card etc. |
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OK, Xac, I'm imagining that. Now I'm imagining someone nicking it...
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Anyway, I ain't carrying no ID card. What Jacqui Smith has said today pretty much rules out the idea of much of the population having one until life is made sufficiently intolerable. Happy at the idea of our tax money paying for Home Office bureaucrats to make our life intolerable until we pay them for a piece of plastic? I'm bloody not. |
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If you're thinking access to your credit cards etc, even if they watched over your shoulder, they'd have to do so for several transactions to get your full pin number. Add biometrics to the mix, such as what they have at Ben Gurin airport, and not only would they need your card and your pin, but also your hand. Change the pin for a word and only ask for a few leters, and you're even less likely to have it broken. Compare that with what people have today. A wallet, with all those cards, which can easily be copied and used as there are no secure back end checks. Are you saying you'd prefer what amounts to a single low security device (wallet full of low security cards) to protect your finances than one high security device? Remember, I'm not talking about the proposed ID scheme, after all that thing will have more holes in it than swiss cheese, but a properly planned and executed ID card scheme. |
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I'll be getting one then!
I will come under airport worker |
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Let me explain something. Not only are they putting fingerprinting machines in schools and CCTV in the Toilets to prepare kids for the global police state were moving into So that when they grow older they will just see them things as the norm as they get introduced into society. They are also using these i.d cards as a stepping stone to introduce control over all the products you buy n purchase. Crime is the most dumbest thing people talk about when it comes to i.d cards. Even einstien said, peace does not come about through force, thats a dictatorship it comes through peace. Any crime commited is only because of the mind state of the person and how ever u want to act like its there fault most people i know who have commited crimes grew out of it when they realised there was more to life, but the lack of what was happening was being put into reality with no understanding of how to make real money other than slave labour and us youngers are wise to that. We arent willing to waste our lives away in a dead end coorporation job for a **** bag company to make millions off us while paying us 6 pound an hour. Never gonna get anywhere and thats realistic hence i do business. The point is These i.d cards are the beginning of the global control next stage is the microchips. They will give you an excuse to introduce everything. and you'll just accept it because they use the words "security, criminals" in the same sentance. Stop accepting the propaganda and review history repeating itself. |
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We wanna live our lives these guys just want us as cattle its clear. People turn to crime some because of there friends, some because of there environment. But what ever way u wanna see it, its because of there SITUATION they have been placed in that made them turn to crime and who can you blame for the condition of the environment only those who mould the minds. Schools done educate on reality n know kid wants a teacher like a mini hitler screaming at him hes just gonna despise it even more. The problem is most you older guys your answer to everything is get the government to lock people up which is what makes you clueless about how the world works. You wanna lock people up you start locking up the people who control this world the bloodlines rockefellers, n these begging politicians who sold there soul years ago. ---------- Post added at 16:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:17 ---------- Quote:
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Still seeing some of the intravenous drug using citizens don't tend to bother with personal hygiene I don't think them not carrying an ID card would bother them. If you get jailed for not carrying one there isn't any places left and fines imposed wouldn't get paid. I think it's a good idea. I just don't trust this government to implement it without making a complete hash of things. |
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I read links too, such as the one above which you're trying to use to get people to log out of CF should they follow it. Not that it would succeed. |
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http://www.inkedblog.com/archives/im...3/barcode1.jpg and the reason its happening is because the older generations dont seem to give two toss's or know how the system runs in the slightest and the younger generation are more lost than hurley, lock n them. ---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:43 ---------- Quote:
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And DO NOT post another link to log people out of the board |
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Once the state was the servant of the people, but now it's becoming the master of the people. Never have the British people had to explain themselves to the state unless the state had grounds for suspicion. That relationship has been rebalanced.
And it's all fine under a benign government. However, I don't believe this government is benign enough to merit that kind of trust, and I'm certainly not prepared to believe that all future governments will be. |
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A lot of countries have ID cards and so far i havn't read about the chip implanting program so pardon me if i see that as paranoid BS. BB while some have a slanted view of the police i don't and if i am not doing anything wrong i certainly wouldn't expect to be stopped by a police oifficer. It is not the card i am opposed too it is this government trying to implement it with the record they have.
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People have always been the servants of the state. People cannot control government. They can vote them in and out, but once in power, they're firmly in a position of governance. Look at the referendum vote, all parties said they'd hold one, Labour and LibDem whips ordered their members to tow the party line rather than vote how their constituants would have wanted. |
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We have laws that are now drafted so broadly, individuals have little protection against officials behaving officiously or vindictively. |
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Don't forget, in the 50's there were ID cards... |
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This is pathetic.
What gets me most is "the conspiracy theories" what everyone was going on about. They were laughing about 2-3 years back when people from the "conspiracey theries " side said that governments in Europe and U.S.A were trying to implement these,aswell as body chi[ps in the future. It's about fxxxxxg time us lazy axx people get off our backsides and tell the idiots in government(aledgedly there to serve us,not the other way around :dozey:) that we don't want certain things and if they try and force this without a public vote we should protest on mass. Them "conspiracy theories" said years back this was going to happen,yet everyone laughed in their faces,now look It's all true. I certainly don't want this card crap,i should be able to go,do,say anything i want to a certain extent. Pathetic. Btw.... I wonder who will get the rough end of the straw on this in the long run? Will it be the working class?................ Will it be the mp's and there entourage who made this happen? Will the royals have to carry this? I think i know what/who will be targeted here? Madness. |
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The idea that a government or state should be the servant of it's people is a nice one, but it's just an idea. A servant cannot govern. |
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We have the most retarded government going,end of.
The idiots are aledgedly labour,the "peoples" party. Yet "the people"have very,very little if no say whatsoever on big matter or laws that are about to come in place. No wonder world governmen5ts are so corrupt,they have way to much power and involvement in everything. God only knows what Britain will be like if labour get another 4 years? |
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We have none of these things, the government just do what they want n we come along for the ride. and the majority just do what there told to do because there weak minded. |
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I do what I want within the law, always have (only 23) always will, never been into trouble, never get the attention of the Police, been searched once in the street when the Police had reports of 3 young lads (was about 15 at the time) breaking into cars, had no problem with this, on my way within 5 minutes. Glad they were doing there job.
I predict I will go on in life like this with ID cards or not, I dont see what all the fuss is about (on the side of the big brother type thing) I can carry on doing what Im doing, I dont think the government will give two flying toots that Im buying condoms and cookies from Asda or a pizza from Pizza Hut. People said the same about CCTV when it was first introduced. Id rather have CCTV at the end of my street rather than not. I want to see who it actually is scratching peoples cars and knocking the wing mirrors off. The big brother believers are pathetic in my opinion. If you are doing nothing wrong, no one cares what you are doing. |
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Ive already explained crime is the product of poverty and lack of understanding. Which is brought about by school, nothing to do, lack of education at school on REAL LIFE and a whole host of other things. In my areas there literally nothing to do its just absulote logic that kids are gonna mess around n do what ever on the streets because everything costs more than these kids can afford. So thats there fault is it? secondly the CCTV is stepping it up its called monitoring its so you get use to it so as they bring in more n more you will just accept it as normal. Kids in my old school nowadays have fingerprint scanners to get there food (which have probably already stolen there DNA and fingerprints and now the authorities have them). and if you really think they care about what you buy you really are foolish. These are called stepping stones. They've done it all through history. Microchip in the passport was the first step then they started mentionining i.d cards and talking about the VERICHIP on live national mainstream news and the "benefits" of it. Some of you guys i question are you a lab rat to be tested or are you a free human? Also the law is changing my friend when does the time come when the law breaches your human rights. It already has mine because im youth and youth's are treated like **** by old bill. Just a pure fact and dont come out with your stereotyping to back them "oh your probably looking suspicious or doing something wrong" because if police work of stereotyping and discrimination.....i guess that says alot about the UK n the mentalities supporting the police... ---------- Post added at 19:11 ---------- Previous post was at 19:10 ---------- Quote:
And I'm glad. I don't understand 'txt spk'.[/QUOTE] that is not slang, that is shortened words for text messages, i never use that. |
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Bowling, Cinema, fishing, football, swimming, cricket, tennis, squash, pool, snooker, dancing, ballet, fencing, computer games, running, hiking, camping, arcades, skating, rock climbing (indoors and outdoors), biking, cooking, you get the jist. Yes, it is there fault, most of what I listed is free. Quote:
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well i can say id cards wont change my life, cos this old timer wont be having one big scottish brother can shove it where the sun dont shine
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Thats what the police systems about which is why guys like you who support it from all angles, n have the nerve to call guys pathetic who DO giva **** about there freedoms n human rights seriously have no worthyness of being called a free spirited human. I myself will never have my rights breeched and you and police officers will know where they stand with me. I would die for my human rights gladly because without them lifes not worth living anyhow unless your happy being a slave personally not me. in a few years time as the police state gets more n more, you will see why it was a bad idea, n people like me will be way gone out of this country to leave you to pick up the pieces. Alot of police are freemasons they care not for you and i know guys who are in the police aged over 30 and they verify this for me all the time. ---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ---------- Quote:
I love how the youngers these days seem to think authority has a right to tell you how to live your life. Guys have forgotten who they are. |
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THESHAOLIN while you are entitled to your opinion so is everyone else so maybe bear that in mind for a more pleasant forum experience. As for the information that an ID card would hold 95% of it is already out there anyway and if as you say you run a business well more of your info is out there already. An ID card is not an automatic step towards implanting RFID chips as some have suggested and in a way i feel sorry for this and any other government as people want security they say they want control over immigration but a national ID card oh my god no my privacy it's stupid you want something you have to give a little.
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Do nothing wrong, they dont care what you do or who you are. Hence your free to do whatever you want. It seems people ahve to moan just to moan these days, without even thinking about it. Get in a stress over it if you want, nothings going to change in my life and the way I live it wether we have CCTV or ID cards. People who think this country is like big brother are delusional to me. We have gathered the government dont care where you shop or what car you drive. |
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Shhhh, it's a conspiracy - they'll all want one :shocked: |
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It's not just an idea; it was the way it was. The "servant" governed with the consent of the people under threat of being ousted to make way for a more popular party if it did not. Do you trust this government? Do you think future governments will be trustworthy? Do you? |
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Do you trust this government, and future governments, too? ---------- Post added at 20:37 ---------- Previous post was at 20:34 ---------- Quote:
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Mind you, at least we have a choice of who to vote for here :shrug: |
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No i am not saying it will help immigration but that is a constant want from the people and it won't hurt will it??. While i don't like the invasions of privacy that seem to happen everyday being realistic what can we do to stop them when many of us are a bit hypocritical about it. I mean we shout and scream about privacy then sign upto a storecard for incentives so shopping is not private anymore. As for losing the data if you had read what i said i would not in anyway trust this shambles of a government to have an ID card. I want to be convinced that if and when it comes in we have the infrastructure and policy's in it's handling in place so that none of us need worry on that aspect.
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We need a less naive, more enquiring electorate, and they need to hear an honest political debate. There's not much chance of that happening. ---------- Post added at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ---------- Quote:
I DID read what you had said. It just didn't seem to balance with your support for ID cards. And the question remains - Do you trust future governments? That's important imo because once brought in, I would say there is no chance of getting rid of them. But if you are against ID cards until such a time that we have a trustworthy government, ok fine! |
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"youve got nothing to fear" keep hearing this a lot recently or words to that effect lol :erm:
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Even ignoring the privacy, civil liberties, and "Big Brother" aspects of the ID Cards scheme (& more importantly, the National ID Register), I do not see how anyone could possibly be in favour of an ID card scheme such as this when it is being brought about by our current incompetent Government.
How many massive Government IT projects have had cost overruns? [and how many have actually delivered what was promised?] How many times have we read stories regarding yet another data cock-up (HMRC Benefit data, DVLA, etc.)? Can anyone seriously trust this Goverment to actually successfully implement & run such a grandiose scheme as this? Really? And when you do then couple that with all the civil liberties issues, and with the complete & utter lack of any actual justifiable need for ID Cards & the ID Database (how many times now has the Govt changed its tune over exactly what the purpose is?), I really fail to understand how anyone could possibly be in favour of this harebrained scheme. Quote:
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The people who "do illegal things" are the ones who are likely to be the least worried about ID cards. They're not going to be lining up like good little citizens to have their biometrics taken, are they? |
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Had the government been able to show there was still a state of emergency, then ID cards would have continued to be legally required. |
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If drinking alcohol ever became illegal, I wouldnt blame the gorverment, Id blame the people who cant control themselves on a night out. Middlesbrough isnt the best of places at the best of times, on the night time its horrendous due to the drug takers/drinkers not being able to handle themselves and the prostitutes. Its time we stand up and stop blaming the goverment for everything, sure they are the cause of somethings, the only thing I see with this Country though is people cant lay the blame on themselves or their friends. I bet, given the chance of running this Country, most people wouldnt know where to stand or what to do and even if they did, does not mean its going to be succesful. Ive always said that for the 'average' person, they (the different paties trying to get in to run the country) are all as bad as each other. We would be know better/worse off either way because they always find another way to gain money from us. I think some people need to sit up and all though we are not the best Country in the world, we are certainly not the worst, not by a long shot and some people need to think themselves lucky that we can sit here and actually talk about and maybe do something about the policies the goverment want to bring in. |
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It's like saying the governments decision to allow the first 2500L of biofuel to be tax free was due to public protest, not due to it otherwise breaching the Kyoto treaty or costing HMRC too much to process tiny sums of duty payments. |
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you must be in a dream if you think a card gives you security. The only threat to any of our lives is the ones who control us. They are creating the division, the segregation. And before 9/11 which led to the war in iraq the world was a much better place and i can clearly visibly see this. As for the passports they've already got the RFID chips in, i wouldnt be surprised if these cards have the same its not about tracking with me, its the fact i know its a stepping stone. And no you dont give a little to tyrants who have murdered over 50,000 people in just iraq alone. You dont give anything to them. People on this forum lack so much information about what the governments in history have been known for doing. Even in roman times governments have never worked they abuse power and its not because they abuse it, its because there not working for us and the people who own them have very different agenda's. I bet most of you would line up to get microchipped. ---------- Post added at 02:03 ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 ---------- Quote:
Governments job is for the people they are there for us. If you want a dictatorship off to china you go. |
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Personally, I'll stick with looking at the evidence, which clearly shows that most governments are in it for themselves and their "friends" but not the people. Sure, sometimes their actions benefit people, but that's normally just a happy coincidence. Take the HMRC decision on removing tax from biofuels up to 2500L a year. Your warm and fuzzy view of the government being for the people would suggest they did it to help reduce people's fuel bills and encourage carbon neutral energy production. In reality it was because it cost more per duty payment than the payment itself for non-professional biofuel producers (like myself) and the government was in breach of the Kyoto treaty by making renewable fuels more expensive than fossil fuels. So the government introduced the 2500L limit to exclude non-professional biofuel producers and thus save money, and also bring it's policies in line with the Kyoto treaty. The happy coincidence is that the action saves me approx £1000 a year in fuel costs. |
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but what i mean is there original purpose was exactly that, to be there for the people. They are defying that n thus they must be removed and stop waffling on about some bullshit aswell n be relevant. i'm more against the governments in control than im sure anyone on this site. |
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Perhaps you should take another look at the history of British governments, specifically who's government it is. From your other posts, you won't like the answer. |
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We have been made to look upto authority as god of our reality while believing and being told we have freedom while they slowly take it away from us. I assure i know history better than most. If you cant speak to me about sumeria i suggest its you who gets the history lesson. As my understanding of history reaches way past 1 million years of this planet. |
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Oh, and 1 million years? I'd not hesitate in saying things were not recorded back then, and as such any events are open for interpretation. |
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I'm not blaming the government for everything, but one thing I do blame them for using the tax system against everyone instead of dealing effectively with the people causing the problems. We're not politicians; it's not our job to run the country, but nevertheless imo our parliamentary politicians have become arrogant and remote from those they are supposed to serve. You're wrong. All parties are not all as bad as each other. Don't judge them all by the standards employed by the parties with bodies on green benches. And when the countries someone can compare us favourably to are "Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Zimbabwe or, whisper it, Russia" you know how low we have sunk. |
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An implanted microchip would be much more convenient. |
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Oh, and I have to admit that I'm impressed - your understanding of history appears to surpass the existance of homo sapiens by about 800 000 years. Quite a feat, although it does rather explain your inability to construct a coherent argument... |
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History professors? History teachers? Babies in nappies? I think you may find that reading the National Enquirer and Conspiracies Weekly does not count as being qualified as a "history expert". btw, did you personally know Sargon the Great? (see my comment below) Quote:
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OK, the old ID cards thing again... Possibly time to re-iterate my views..
While what I do is legal, and mostly of no interest to anyone apart from me, my family and friends, I am uncomfortable with ID cards. For a couple of reasons: 1) I like the freedom to wander off somewhere and have no one be able to find out who I am without my permission. 2) This government hasn't been entirely successful at keeping the data they have secure. Bearing that in mind, I don't think it a good idea to give them more. |
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1. If you wander off in a city you will be filmed by many, many CCTV cameras. Without your permission being asked. 2. The government already holds a great deal of data about you. I don't think ID cards will add to that. |
Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
Rather overlooked in the whole grim farrago was a report, cunningly released yesterday when everyone was looking the other way, which completely undercuts the entire scheme. Basically it says there is a need for a voluntary ID scheme from a *consumer* viewpoint, to prove ID at banks etc., but this is incompatible with the massive compulsory centralised database idea which is what the Government are clinging on to and trying to force people into (e.g. you can't work in certain industries without one, which is as far from voluntary, consumer-led as you can get).
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http://p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog....sby_repor.html |
Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
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However, the main objection I have is that we appear to be moving toward being a police state, because of some percieved threat from terrorism. |
Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
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I'm all for it if means I only have to carry one card instead of passport, drivers licence, staff ID, security swipe card, Oyster card, etc, etc. |
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