17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Here Very sad...

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Damn! This is extremely sad and very very odd???

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

could possibly be hysteria??

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

I know Wales is a depressing place but this is extreme.

Well start looking a bit harder Sherlock because if these are "random" then just about every statisical record has probably been broken.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Somebody looked at bebo and found links web pages of the dead teenagers pages and suicide films/song etc

I think the police is incompetent, I was looking into this 2 weeks or so ago when 15 &16 suicide happened....

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Statistics is usually ahead of you here - humans aren't equipped to understand statistical anomalies without special training. However, in this case, don't discount the possibility of copy-catting, which certainly applies in other violent action cases like school shootings in the US. Still, let's not let mathematics and psychology distract us from having a go at the Internet, shall we?

Of course, there are other obvious but sad truths; young people have always taken their own lives, particularly in teenage years when the hormones are going nuts, we're perpetually blaming the young for society's ills and both main parties have had policies of depriving them of proper education*, not to mention testing them to destruction so middle class parents know where to buy houses.

* see http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_s...a-the-ill.html

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Who gives a stuff about statistics - sometimes some people get blinded by numbers that it prevents them from seeing the real picture.

Let's look at the facts shall we.

17 suicides of young people - apparently all unconnected since Jan 07.

However, trends and statistics start to go out of the window when the fact two of the young teens found last week, lived on the same street.

[Sarcasm Mode]

Yes, this happens a lot where I live. Does it occur where you live?

[/Sarcasm Mode]

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

They were cousins though - One of them was on holiday abroad at the time and killed themselves shortly after hearing the news. They had been brought up together and were very close indeed.

Thats understandable.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Yeah, The first few could have been just normal suicides. They were then followed by other people who were depressed enough to consider it, saw others around the same area doing it, and copy-catted as it were.

Although each suicide is equally tragic. Especially for the families of those concerned..It's not just the death, it's the knowledge that they were so depressed that must add so much to a already high degree of loss.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Something is not quite right down there, something very strange is happening, it's a sad waste of such young lives.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Practically everybody in charge of anything in developed nations? This is no time for anti-intellectualism, Mick, it's too serious for that.

In what area? Compared to what baseline? I'd better refer people to the National Statistics website, updated today for all of us to do our own analyses, which I've checked out - generally suicides have been going down for nearly a decade. However, the younger and maler you are the more likely you are to commit suicide. Men are way, way more susceptible, in fact the most obvious thing that suggests something odd and worrying is going down in Wales is that a number of the victims are young women, who are the *least* likely historically.

The other thing about Bridgend that stands out is that it bucked the national reducing trend for male suicide - from 1991-1997 (before the current economic boom) it was 113th on the national list of areas, from 1998-2004 it went up to 48th. That's for men 15+. For women it went down from 247th to 291st, so they're even less likely - there were only 15 suicides *total* for women in that area in six years 1998-2004.

Going back to the male statistics, the rise from 113rd to 48th was 65 places. The highest in the country was 328 places, 352nd to 24th for ...Blaenau Gwent (Harlow also was this bad). In fact South Wales seems a bit of a hotspot:

Blaenau Gwent: 352nd -> 24th
Caerphilly: 365th -> 65th
Vale of Glamorgan: 350th -> 209th
Bridgend: 113rd -> 48th
Rhondda Cynon Taff: 205th -> 81st
Merthyr Tydfil: 111th -> 40th
Neath Port Talbot: 27th -> 27th (in other words it was already pretty bad)

In other words South Wales has had an increasing suicide rate while the UK national trend has been downwards.

This is a bit crude, admittedly - it obscures the fact that North Wales and rural West Wales was already pretty poor, but getting better. South Wales was good, except Neath Port Talbot, but getting worse. If that's continued up till now, what we're seeing is a larger issue brought to media attention by a particular set of circumstances, and it could be a whole lot worse. Any South Wales residents able to shed any light?

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

If you say so. But I prefer to look at the real picture than get blinded by patterns or trends seen in *numbers*.

Thanks, but no need to refer me to anything. I checked that this afternoon.

Nothing you have posted about so called statistics indicates or suggests an explanation in the events which are occuring in Bridgend.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

On Sky News they said, albeit very quickly, that the National Statisics say that it's about or only slightly above what they would expect given the area/other demographics.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

One of the chapters (chapter 7, p216-220, paperback) in a book called "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell is about a spate of suicides in Micronesia, and defined it as "suicide ideation".

It's summarised in point 4 on this page
"One chapter, for example, deals with the very strange epidemic of teenage suicide in the South Pacific islands of Micronesia. In the 1970's and 1980's, Micronesia had teen suicide rates ten times higher than anywhere else in the world. Teenagers were literally being infected with the suicide bug, and one after another they were killing themselves in exactly the same way under exactly the same circumstances. We like to use words like contagiousness and infectiousness just to apply to the medical realm. But I assure you that after you read about what happened in Micronesia you'll be convinced that behavior can be transmitted from one person to another as easily as the flu or the measles can."

It may not be the answer, but it's a possible explanation.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

What about some kinda brain washing?

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

I doubt that, seems like a combination of normal rates of suicide and a press frenzy.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Normal? Two deaths to suicide of teenagers living on the same street is not what I would define as anything remotely normal.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

I can't understand why anyone would ever consider suicide. Often its described as the cowards way out, but it takes some bravery to actually go through with it - and mean it.

I can only assume (in my naive mind!) that they believe there is something better than here - or maybe thats just me hoping they do :rolleyes:

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Well they were close, the first one triggered the second one. There doesn't seem to be any cult here. The police and parents are saying it's just a string of tragic and unrelated deaths and I am inclined to agree.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Perhaps they don't want to admit there is a suicide cult to prevent a wild spread copy cat cult across the UK. :shrug:

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Well according to Sky the office of National Statistics said it's not a especially high amount of suicides for the size of the area. We get surprised at the number, but I would like to know the average suicides rates before we conclude that there is anything big at work here.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Unfortunately for me, I get a death report on my local population every week at work (about 200k population). Most weeks, there is at least 1 suicide :erm:

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

It probably is a "normal" amount, but what seems to be abnormal is the fact it's such young people, or am i wrong?

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Boococks.

---------- Post added at 08:40 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ----------

I don't doubt it but we're looking at a very small age group here. Not the whole demographic.

There is something wrong here, and they can't just bury their heads in the sand and point at statistics

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

It's not an especially high amount for the age-group and area. It's being brought to attention because of the alleged link that no-one has been able to find. If it wasn't for the press most people outside the area would be none the wiser.

For example I know of at least 3 people of similar ages committing suicide since the turn of the year in a small part of West Scotland. That gives it a similar level as the area in South Wales but there isn't any talk of suicide pact or doomsday cults.

It's desperately sad that people with everything to live for decide to take the option of ending their own lives and more should be done to help them but thinking up conspiracy theories doesn't help anyone.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Noone is saying there is a conspiracy - Coincidence maybe - even some of the townsfolk of Bridgend are just as baffled.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

We're not, But statistics are important. You cannot say this is a big, unexplained event, if it's on par with the normal rates of suicide.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1092

17.4 men and 5.3 Women is per 100,000 is the 'normal' rate.

Population of Bridge-end: 132,600

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgend_(county_borough)

Of course, not that every death is not equally tragic or to minimize the deaths but this is not deserving of the media swarm it is getting, at least not in terms of a 'weird' occurrence or patten.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

does it matter if it's statistically normal or not?

17 people chosing to end their life, is a tragedy IMO and the causes of that needs to be found to prevent it happening again

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Ok I've just been on the national stats web site.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbas...asp?vlnk=13618

Which gives figure for up to 2004.

National UK average for suicides (of all ages above 15) is 18 per 100,000

In Wales it's slightly higher at 22 per 100,000 = 0.022%

it can then be broken down further on areas and deprivation. etc.

even then it's about 35 per 100,000 = 0.035%

So on those figures it doesn't look out of place.

The population of Bridgend at the last count was 130,000

and we're only two months into 2008 and we are at 17 deaths = 0.013%

So we're over half way to the annual figures and only 1/6 into the year.

So you can safely say that, at the moment, it certainly above average...............

And I'm not a conspiricy theorist but you cannot say that it is "normal"

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------

Thank you - I have done the same (above) and that is an annual rate, we are two months into the year. Those figures are also for 15+ whereas we are dealing with a much thinner demographic spread of a few years.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

The 17 deaths are from January 2007, not 2008. So it's been a year and a bit.

Also its 22 per 100,000 not 18. (average, the women and men need to be added together) Not sure if it's the same for wales or higher)

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

You need to break out male and female rates, since the age distribution and actual numbers are so vastly different as to make lumping them together dubious. How many of the 17 are female, incidentally?

By the way, Pierre, did you check Scotland in there? Way, way higher than Wales or England - Glasgow's the worst place in the country.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Also this is 17 Young people and it makes no mention of the other suicides in other age groups. Its also pretty odd for so many to be hangings.

From my limited (and probably wrong) experience girls tend to OD or cut whilst blokes tend to hang.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Yes but the population os actually 138,00. The time scale is a extra month. The news reports include areas around bridgend. So I suspect that is around 17 young people.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Being utterly brutal about it there are two types of suicide. A 'proper' attempt and a cry for help type. Hangings unfortunately tend to work. :(

I know thats a massive generalization but thats the way it is.

Yep and if they could see the devastation they leave behind I'm sure they'd think twice. I've already been at one funeral this year from a suicide and it's by fr the worst emotionally I've had to experience.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

OK, Checked wales.

Those aged between 15 to 44 is 26.8 (men) Women is 5.5. per 100,000 young people.

much higher. Given that the rates with both included for a population of 138,00 and surrounding areas is 17 for a year a bit between 15 - 25.

I would say it's on par.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Sorry,

My fault, not reading the info properly.

Jan 2007.............. in that case I respectfully withdraw the tripe I posted earlier.

Move away now...............nothing to to see here

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

This is really odd. I work in Bridgend now, it's a pretty affluent area and no-one seems to have any idea what's going on.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

One snippet of information - Hungary had the worst suicide rate in the world, but it actually went down after the end of Communism, despite economic turmoil and massive unemployment. The difference, apparently, was better provision of mental health services, so perhaps we should be looking there?

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

If there is an underlying problem that has not up until now been addressed then I find it terrible that it has taken 17 young lives for it to be picked up.:(

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

The Independent has a list of the 17, and the first 12 are male. The last five are four female and one male, which is statistically unusual*, but not taken across the sample as a whole, since the national figures about 75% male, 25% female for 15-44 year olds, so 12/17 (71%) and 5/17 (29%) are near enough, so I was wrong about it being disproportionately female, it had been disproportionately male until the start of 2008.

* However, in any random series you get clusters, but you also get regression to the mean which cancels them out in the long run

Monthly totals, to see if there's a rising pattern (second figure is the five-month rolling average, a useful trick to spot whether a trend is real)

Jan - 1
Feb - 2
Mar - 0
Apr - 1
May - 1 - 1
Jun - 1 - 1
Jul - 0 - 0.6
Aug - 2 - 1
Sep - 1 - 1
Oct - 0 - 0.8
Nov - 1 - 0.8
Dec - 1 - 1
Jan - 2 - 1
Feb - 3 - 1.4

so if there's an increase it's since the media coverage started, suggesting that it has possibly had an influence.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

The differences are small enough to suggest normal activity though. There may be slightly higher males but not enough to suggest a unsual trend.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

Well I'm sure 17 families will be comforted by the stats...

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

tragic loss of young lives,where does it all end.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

I doubt they'd be comforted by anything at the moment, certainly not the faux-emotional press attention. This is a time for thoughtfulness, not remote empathy. Too much of that in the UK, and it's entirely pointless.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

There's talk in the town that a production company is interested in doing some sort of film about the suicides. It might be some sort of documentary, or a conspiracy-type affair, who knows..

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

As a statistic, apparently.

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

I think the familys would like it better if the media was not trying to make a conspiracy story out of the deaths to help sell papers/get viewers. They have often asked for the media to stay out of it, that it's part of the problem, and even that they may be helping to encourage further deaths in the area.

We're not saying it's not tragic nor that their deaths only amount to a statistic, to be honest I think it's pretty obvious we're not. We are saying that the media's coverage of the story is incorrect and irresponsible and is done sorely because they can generate interest in their fictitious conspiracy/internet story.

If they were raising awareness of suicide in general then it would have a point, but people are committing suicide everyday and are not getting coverage. Unless you know someone personally, these things always end up as a static.

These deaths are no more tragic than any other young person taking their own life just because it’s caught national coverage.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Now, somehow, that doesn't suprise me. :( Anything for ratings and MONEY!

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

I would like to convey to the family and the people of Bridgend my condolences and sorrow for the deaths of so many young people. Unfortunately, the more information that comes out the more it seems that organised stalking has taken a grip of your community.

Similar and documented cases has been recorded by FBI in the US with the most famous case being "Operation Freakout" discovered by the authorities during a raid conducted at the Church of Scientology in 1977. Criminal gangs often use oganised stalking and the associated electronic harassment extensively in the US to attack rivals, drive out business competition and coerce individuals particularly young women into prostitution.
Consequently, the states of Minnesota and Michigan in the US have entered these crimes into their penal codes ( Public Act 2003-0256 / Definitions, Public Act 2003-0257 / Fines and Penalties). Other states have or are following suite.

In the UK, the most recent case reported occurred on our televisions to John Sweeney of the Panorama programme who was a recipient of the rough end of organised stalking, otherwise known as fair game. Freemasons call organised stalking 'the white glove treatment' and they are considered the most active of organised groups in the use of this form of terror to hound individuals. Freemasons use organised stalking for fun; there is an element of team building and discipline within the group in the application of psychological warfare against an individual.

The reasons why individuals are targeted are many and includes revenge, vendettas against whistle blowers, real estate fraud/theft, ritualistic and cult control of members, driving business competition out of town, corporate conflict against environmentalists and finally it could be the actions of a corrupt police and local authorities.

Organised stalking is a carefully applied form of harassment that includes stalking by multiple individuals. It also includes mocking, leering and rude behaviour by multiple individuals directed against the individual repetitively on a daily basis for weeks and months to demoralize. There is overt surveillances and escorting by stalkers even in the remotest areas. In the US stalkers have been observed and filmed by the authorities tracking individuals and communicating with each with in military style sign language and mobile phones often circling and harassing in a predatory manner.

In areas where there are organised stalking networks, it is often easy to observe predatory stalkers. They often take up vantage points on a street, loiter, and from time signal unseen parties further on. When this happens look out for a cowed individual scurrying past, this the target of harassment. Where there are organised stalking networks, there are many lone individuals being hounded.

Most victims of predatory gangstalkers, including myself, strongly believe that these stalkers are involved in paedophilia, prostitution and drugs. Most organised stalking victims have been young women being coerced into prostitution, however with our increasingly liberal society, young men are being forcibly drawn in to this form of exploitation. Older individuals are targeted for money, property, business reasons or just plain revenge. Divorce may also induce this form of revenge if a spouse is connected to these networks or is a Freemason.

The end product of these activities are depression, mental illness and suicide.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

I'm sorry I have NO idea what relevance stalking has to what's happening down here, unless you're peddling some kind of agenda?

Re: 17-th suicide in Bridgend
 

No need to admit it with all the media speculation, perhaps if it weren't given blanket coverage, who knows, still anything to shift a few more copies

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

I am peddling nothing but the truth. Check out every item of fact I mentioned. Areas where organised stalking induces high suicide rates. This phenomenon is occurring in the US and the authorities are passing the relevant laws. In several occurrences, it was found to be either Scientologists or Freemasons, however, the majority of perpetrators are cults or criminal gangs.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Please keep this thread on topic. There is nothing to suggest the suicides have anything to do with cults or stalking.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Amazing, the authorities are scratching their heads, people are mourning and you dictate what is on or off topic over a horrific mystery. The fact is there are evil people in this country and they commit evil crimes. To discuss their part in tearing a community apart is not off topic. You are. I find it hard to believe that young people commit suicide as a fad, they've had a push in that direction. This kind of thing has happened before and will continue until we all put a stop to it.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Well it might make your case if you provided some links or actual sites and show us where there is a stalker in this case.You could try contacting the Bridgend police directly with your suggestions...but this is really a condolence thread not a conspiracy thread.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Yes, I'm an Admin on this site, it's my job to decide.

Agreed.

Yes it is, when there is no suggestion that these 'evil people' are involved.

I'm not saying it's a fad.

Let me put you in the picture. I live 15 miles from Bridgend. Not only that, I actually work smack-bang in the centre of Bridgend. I'm ideally-placed to hear about all kinds of rumours and stories about these suicides. And I can assure you 150% that there is nothing to suggest Freemasons, Scientologists or stalking is involved.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

I find it slightly worrying (and, I daresay the families involved would find it offensive) that you appear to be using these 17 deaths to further your own agenda.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Opps! Sorry. However, my comments are genuine. I and a few others will be writing to Madeleine Moon. Also I will endeavour to contact US survivors groups to look into what has happened in Bridgend and ask them to lend some assistance. I have no confidence in the police from my own organised stalking experience.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Fair enough.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...313403,00.html

Number 19. My sister used to live in Bettws and I know this will hit the community hard.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Very strange goings on. RIP

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Did the media report number 18? Very weird and sad....

yes it was here ....

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

tragic indeed,and god help their familys as to what they must be going through.

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

It must be very worrying for the parents of children in this age range in the area..if only for the fear of a copycat attempt.:(

Btw is there any info/stats on failed suicides in the area? :D

Re: 17th suicide in Bridgend
 

Im not sure if anyone goes on this anymore, but if so i would like to hear the most recent discussions regarding this topic, i have a few suggestions myself. you see i dont think we are facing a "copy cat" situation here, the copy cat situation would happen among very lonely and desperate cases, which by looking at these victims profiles, i would say that this is not the case. thier psycological profiles dont match anything of the sort. however over the years factors have changed. which is why if anyone has any more information it would b greatly recieved. My email is b.3@hotmail.co.uk . as for my name, call me B.