Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 34483052)

Well the 2008 F1 season starts soon.

After watching the news today for the abuse that was directed at Lewis Hamilton, both of the races in Spain should be scrapped.

F1 is a sport were fans stand side by side, racism has no place.

Any other country that does this should be stripped of there race.

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 34483071)

I bet that spain still has its races.

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 34483071)

I bet that spain still has its races.

Originally Posted by keithwalton (Post 34483239)

It's not the first time something like this has happend and sadly it wont be the last.

It tends to happen when a nation's favorite gets beaten by someone elses.

Originally Posted by Shadow Demon UK (Post 34507365)

Hamilton gets pole in Australia - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7297939.stm

And oh dear, look where Alonso is :D

Originally Posted by Shadow Demon UK (Post 34507365)

Hamilton gets pole in Australia - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7297939.stm

And oh dear, look where Alonso is :D

Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 34507366)

Also, is it too early in the season for the FIA to come up with a reason why Räikkönen shouldn't be starting from the back of the grid?

Originally Posted by ShaneC (Post 34507489)

He qualified 16th with his time, then his engine died before the pits, thats why he's 16th, didn't break any rules.

Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 34507366)

Wander how long Flavio and Fernando stay mates, I give it two races maximum before he start throwing his toys out the pram again.

Also, is it too early in the season for the FIA to come up with a reason why Räikkönen shouldn't be starting from the back of the grid?

Originally Posted by ShaneC (Post 34510896)

yeah good news about going back to the bbc, hope they get back the original grand prix music. Did i hear that Murray may make a comeback, even if its just at special races?

Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 34510943)

That would be the end of "the chain" by Fleetwood Mac.

.....I haven't heard it anywhere yet, but yes Murray commentating would be wonderfull, he did a race year, I think it was the British GP, wasn't for ITV. Any commentary's got to be better that Martin "my knowlege of motor racing is so amazing" Brundle, if his understanding of the cars and tactics is so good why did he not do better when he was racing, and why is he not now involved with a team.

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 34522228)

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: grrrr ruddy alonso

Originally Posted by iadom (Post 34508424)

Great start for Hamilton, didn't realise until I read an article in the Telegraph but due to Mac/Mercs total team points deduction last season leaving them at the bottom of the pile they now get the smallest pit lane garage and the last choice of pit lane position. It means that they will not be able to carry the same amount of spares backup etc so any success this year will be more than well earned.

Jim.

Originally Posted by tcbass (Post 34522387)

Yes how dare he being in front in a slower car. He must apologise immediately and unreservedly...

don't you mean how dare he purposely cause an accident ,by lifting off in his usual unsporting way .

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 34522413)

looks like the telemetry doesn't agree

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66448

The media would like nothing better than a feud between Hamilton & Alonso, but I think we have to be wary of that - Martin Brundle did only call what he saw, but didn't appear to give Alonso much in the way of the benefit of the doubt??

I have to say I agreed with him, at the time :angel:

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 34570952)

The accident is to be investigated after the race.

Taking bets that FIA (Ferrari International Assistance) try an ban him from a race or two.

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler (Post 34570947)

Well, Hamilton's blown it by running into the back of Raikkonen in the pit lane... :(

Originally Posted by homealone (Post 34571057)

Bizarre incident, I've only seen it a couple of times, but I almost thought Lewis was accelerating when he hit Raikkonen ???

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler (Post 34571068)

He wasn't watching the pit lane lights which stay at red until the pace car has cleared the pit area. He thought he could just accelerate back into the race as normal, whereas Kimi was obeying the traffic signals...

Originally Posted by homealone (Post 34571097)

aye, but it almost looked like, for a split second, he thought 'they have slowed down, I'll go past them' - and then realised, too late, they had actually stopped ???

Originally Posted by punky (Post 34571163)

I don't really follow F1, but a newbie thought came to me: Does Raikkonen get any compensation? Or his team?

Originally Posted by keithwalton (Post 34571171)

I'm impressed the stewards that are supposed to attend every race to ensure everyone gets the same treatment obviously favour ferrari ...

Kimi hits Sutil from behind and is able to continue whilst sutil is knocked out of the race - Kimi recieves no penalty.
Lewis hits Kimi and takes them both out of the race and get a 10 place grid penalty.
Nico hits Lewis but continues in the race whilst lewis doesn't, Nico gets a 10 place grid penalty.

Same offences, different punishments. Yes lewis was silly down the pitlane he did see the red light just to late to stop properly, as well he had 1 car legnth less stopping distance than the other two.
On a side note, kimi should not of been on the left, your supposed to wait in single file, so technically kimi should not of been there for lewis to hit! But i'm sure he wont get punished!

As for compensation no he doesn't get any, though I bet force india would like some free engines!

Originally Posted by homealone (Post 34571170)

At least as much as Sutil got, a couple of weeks ago, presumably ?? :angel:

Originally Posted by Wicked_and_Crazy (Post 34571286)

So based upon this ruling if anyone causes another car to go off of the track they will get penalised???

Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 34633660)

I konw I sound like a broken record every time I say this..........

But a race victory has gone to McLaren at the expense of Ferrari, don't be too surprised if Hamilton ends up not winning the race after all.

Also, even tho Kovalienen(sp?) deserved his penalty, it would have been nice to compare it to what would have happen if the same thing was done in a Ferrari.

FIA = Ferrari International Assistance.

Originally Posted by sir_drinks_alot (Post 34633709)

great end to the race not seen anything like that for a while !

Originally Posted by Bender (Post 34633716)

it's so wrong. Hamilton obviously yielded the position initially, then won it back at the next corner - the FIA need to get their noses out of Ferrari's backside....

Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 34633740)

and where the heck did they get 25 seconds from.......?

Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 34633740)

and where the heck did they get 25 seconds from.......?

Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 34633809)

YES!!! Mclaren are going to appeal :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7603179.stm

Originally Posted by bulkylad (Post 34633767)

gutted :(

Originally Posted by tcbass (Post 34633951)

Very exciting race indeed.
The Incident and subsequent penalty is borderline, but after replaying it several times I think the verdict is just (just) although the penalty seems a little harsh, the precedent of a drive-through penalty (i.e. 25 sec) for this type of incident has been set in the past, rather than a 10 place penalty for the next race which might have seemed a fairer one.
The 2 things that swung it for me is:
1) Hamilton clearly makes a concious decision to cut the chicane (a hard left on the steering) instead of making it around, which it looks like he could easily have achieved.
2) He does not appear to lift off afterwards in order to give his place back. I.e Kimi repasses Hamilton due to his superior straight line speed alone. Hamilton has therefore not properly relinquished the place/advantage gained through deliberately cutting the chicane.

Deliberately cutting chicane when he could have made it through to great advantage

Not lifting off afterwards (and clearly does hard left on steering)

Originally Posted by tcbass (Post 34634046)

Have you actually looked closely at the video.
At 24 sec you can see him trying to go up the inside, he is not even close to being level with Kimi when he closes the door (quite rightly so) and its obvious that there will be no room up the inside, but instead of abandoning the move he does a hard left taking the whole chicane out of the equation and going from being behind to in front by some margin. It's not even the case that he had made the move and had to overrun the chicane to make it stick, to which he still would have had to give the place back. He makes a deliberate decision to not attempt the chicane, using other parts than the track, to his benefit.
As for being "squeezed" of the track it's nothing wrong with that, and something Lewis has done on numerous occasions himself, the last time it was described as 'Majestic' as far as I can remember.
In the second clip, in your honest opinion do you think Lewis is lifting?? It certainly does not sound like it to me.
If the Darth Ron has telemetry to say otherwise, I would have thought that he had the opportunity to show that to the stewards at the time.
Maybe they decided that the overall advantage gained wasn't adequately negated by Lewis at the time.
As I stated before I think it was borderline, and I initially did think it was unjust, but looking closely at the clips I think it is just (just).

Originally Posted by j52c (Post 34634103)

Here is another one for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qjQiOJpHBM

This was Massa overtaking Gloch, why was this not investigated?
Massa was clearly off the track when he overtook, lok at the 1:39 second mark.

Also,

There was a yellow flag waving when this happened.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34634066)

But at 22 seconds, he was infront, they both locked wheels going into that corner and were fighting for 1st place. This is called racing and should be left alone. Like I said, when you are commited in a F1 car, you stay commited. We see incidents like this almost every race, they just dont happen to be between 2 people fighting for the championship at the end of a race. Regardless, if you can find the part of the rule book where it states how long he has to lift off for or how long he has to stay behind after giving the place up, then you could easlily prove your argument.

And if you do prove it, I want Kimi penalised for doing the the same thing, the only difference was he didnt make a place, he just made up ground.

Originally Posted by tcbass (Post 34634129)

Not making a place is a crucial difference, and it's the making a place or not loosing a place through cutting a corner that's punished, usually by a drive through penalty. As there wasn't enough laps left of the race for the penalty to be implemented it was given after it's was finished. The alternative once they had decided the guilt (rightly or wrongly) would have been a 10 place grid penalty for the next race, thus not affecting the outcome of this. But for this type of infringement a drive-through is handed out.
Had Kimi not crashed out he might have received the same penalty, who knows, we can only speculate. The thin is you can't give a drive-through penalty to someone that's not in the race any more.

I wouldn't had any arguments had this not been investigated, and left as the exciting racing it was. I agree it's a little harsh and thought it was wrong initially, but looking at it I can see where the stewards are coming from.
Lewis would have been a lot further back had he gotten out of it as soon as he realised the door was shut and made it round the chicane instead of deliberately cutting it, then gently yielding (if he did at all) until he was just about behind Kimi at the next corner.

The stewards did this of their own back, Ferrari did not complain!

The difficulty with this one is that it happened so close to the end that the penalty was handed out post race. If it had happened earlier and drive-through served during the race I don't think it would have been so controversial even if it had the same result in the end.

Mark Blundell on last nights "The ITV Lewis Hamilton Show" went through the slow-mo of the incident and concluded that the penalty was probably justified, because of the advantage gained through cutting the chicane.

On a side note, this sort of deliberate action to gain a advantage, not strictly according to rule or slight bending thereof, which on occasions came back to bite him, is something Michael Schumacher was famous for. He was either hated or loved for this uncompromising, arrogant attitude depending on which side you stood on. Now with Lewis it has seemed to switch sides. How Ironic. ;)

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34634135)

None of that makes sense, and most of this isnt in the rule book.

You say "Not making a place is a crucial difference, and it's the making a place or not loosing a place through cutting a corner that's punished", Hamilton gave the place back, so there for did not break any rules. If you can find a rule that states how far the driver has to be behind before making another pass then do so, if not then we are arguing over something you cant prove which is not in the rules.

You cant have it both ways, both Hamilton and Kimi made up time, by cutting out a corner, the difference is, Hamilton won a place and had to give it back which he did. The rules under what Hamilton has been punished mention nothing of the advnatge he might have made.

Originally Posted by tcbass (Post 34634143)

I'm not trying to have it both ways, I agree, as stated several times before, that the penalty is harsh, but I can see where the stewards are coming from, just about. I would have been more than happy for this to have been left alone. As for Kimi's moves, it might well ave been punished had he not crashed out, who knows.

I used to have these same discussions with avid Schumacher fans, the similarities are striking. Drivers of their ability and uncompromising desire to win at all costs are bound to cause controversy. Their similarities are striking.
(Just such a shame that Lewis drives for the devil ;) :D)

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34634148)

See you are having it both ways. Regardless wether he crashed out or not, he should be punished the same has Hamilton. You cant have one rule for one and not the other. A penalty should come for the next race on sunday. And the whole point was, he did crash out, so any advantage if any Hamilton got, was null and void in the end anyway.