Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

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It would seem that many doctors have forgotten that their wages are being paid by the very people who they now want to deny treatment to because of their age......:dozey:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

"Among the survey of 870 family and hospital doctors, almost 60 per cent said the NHS could not provide full healthcare to everyone and that some individuals should pay for services"

Easy to say when your're on £100k :rolleyes:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

I can't believe they have forgotten all the NI the elderly have paid through their lives to be finally told to sod off because of their age! :mad:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Makes sense to me. :shrug:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Hypocritic Oath anyone?

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

There is no such thing any more

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Absoloutely ridiculous!

I tell you what, lets not treat the sick and we can save all the NHS money!!!

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

The NHS isn't a bottomless well of money. Why would you want money spent on treatments that don't make much difference to people?

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

I'm on the fence, i suppose we need to understand the exceptions better

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

You have to have some give and take, i agree. But why should someone have the right to decide when an elderly person can or can't have a vital operation. Any extra time it gives them with their loved ones is a blessing which they probably wouldn't have had without treatment. And they have paid more than enough over the years!

Likewise with smoking, the revenue it brings in through taxes far outweighs what is paid out on smoking related illnesses.

---------- Post added at 22:20 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

If someone WILL NOT quit smoking or drinking purely because they don't want to, then maybe lifesaving treatment such as lung/liver transplant should be witheld IMO :dozey: But even if they do pack what they're doing in, how do you police it? You can't take it back once you've given them it.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

What a joke, what is this country coming to. I dont think anyone has the rite to turn down sick people due to their age, I would pay all the money in the bank for a loved one to be with me that extra bit longer. Its a damm rite cheak to take the NI for 50+ years and when they actually need it turn them down. Im sorry this is wrong.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Not really a surprise. I spend a lot of time talking to GPs, and the majority are arrogant ******s with a superiority complex. And the money they earn :shocked:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

The amount of money in the NHS is frightening £105.6bn :shocked:
The amount of money wasted by management is totaly unacceptable.
75% on hospital managers have NO useful function whatsoever and should be desposed of.
The procurment departments of NHS trusts should be investigated for any fraudulent transactions and falsification of records, to prevent/stop a large portion of the budgets being stolen.

need I continue?

:2cents:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

why smoking and eating?? they never mention sports injuries do they lolol cannot trust em anymore:(

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

I would willingly opt out of the NHS if I could have my NI contributions channeled into the private sector instead of the very wasteful and overmanaged ,downright con trick we have now, and I speak as a non medical consultant who has seen the waste and top heavy "managers".:mad:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

In my opinion these decisions should be taken by a committee composed of hospital staff, patients, members of the public, etc. The committee can be told the budget, then decide how many hip operations, fertility treatments, kidney transplants, etc. are performed. This would give more power back to the people (and away from government).

Agreed, but medical staff have very little control over this. In fact, their careers can be jeopardised if they openly disagree with management.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

The last time I went to my GP was when I was 21, 41 years ago! Total waste of time which is why I never bothered going again.
If you are ill, go to bed.
If you are really ill go to the hospital, the GP is going to send you there anyway.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

The thing is that the elderly have already paid for the treatment in advance through NI. How whould you feel if you had paid insurance all your life and then had the goalposts moved when you needed the very thing you had been paying towards?

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Clearly in this case the treatment made a great deal of difference.

I don't think it works this way. The money you and I are paying now goes to treating people now.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Once you start down this road where do you stop??. I mean how long before they withhold treatment for incurables i mean whats the point of spending money on conditions that can't be cured. If these doctors don't want to treat people then sod off out of the NHS but as long as you have your snout in the trough you do the job which means treating everyone irrespective.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

The NHS already applies rationing of health care - this is not new. As far as I can tell, some doctors want this rationing to be more explicit.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Rationing and refusal of treatment are two different things.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

wonder what your opinion will be when your old and grey with dodgy hips and whatever else. Wonder if you will say its ok do not treat me im gonna die soon anyway

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

IMO if you have been paying NI for most of your life you should be getting treatment end of.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Then why is it called National Insurance?
These are the people who were promised the whole 'cradle to grave' thing if they bought into it.....

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Actually, NI doesn't seem to have much to do with the NHS:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTax...Tax/DG_4015904

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Just out of interest, why wouldn't you all be at your mother's bedside in her own home?
What was it about the hospital which stopped your sister being with her familiy, and you and your other sister from going to work that your mother being at home wouldn't have stopped?

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Maybe the same situation i had once xaccers in the morning when my dying relative was at home my boss wouldn't give me time off. By the afternoon when the doctor had come and said they really needed to be admitted to hospital i could have off all the time i needed. Stupid i know but i doubt mine was the only idiot employer in the country.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

I'm amazed at that, and stand corrected.
It seems that paying NI and taxes entitles this countries citizens to only whatever NHS care our GP's deem appropriate, regardless of actual need.:(

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Other than making a formal complaint against the boss, it doesn't explain why hospitalisation would stop his sister from being at her house, while being home wouldn't.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

more evidence we becoming a survival of the fittest nation, similiarities to nazis?

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

I just wish that there was a way to stop paying NI... there is just no need for it if you have private med care from your employer

with regards to the topic.. I can see where this is coming from, if you have a look down the street how many over 80s do you see walking about? There are just too many of them and yes I agree they have done their fair share of everything (ww2 etc)

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Your NI pays for your's and everyone else's pensions.Health care is paid for by income tax.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

cheers Coggy I never knew that thought that NI was also for health care.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Appearances can be deceptive, the reason that there appears to be a lot of over 80's walking about is that the rest of the nation is either driving about or is sat in front of the telly, neither of which will help them reach their 70's let alone their 80's.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Good point..mind round here where it's flat I'm just as likely to be mowed down by a 70/80 year old on one of those mobility chairs.:D

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

You and me both, they go round in clans here! :D

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Actually being on the south coast and living in a retirement village where there are several McCarthy and Stone Retirement Ghettos, there are a high percentage of the elderly wandering around my high street.We are about to have a mobility shop in the high street so I can see a few doing a grand prix around our one way system.;)

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Be wary of 'open days' being held by the mobility shop. They caught me out one sunday when I thought they were all heading towards the bingo. They had in fact received flyers through their doors offering them a free service on their scooters! I was worried for my life (in my car!) when 10 scooters came hurtling down the road with lively pensioners onboard :D

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

good point, perhaps the NHS high earners ought to pay for their own treatment?
well said!
how about those who have never worked a day in their lives (not even yet bothering to get a job, because they are too lazy) but end up in A&E on a saturday night because they have either drank too much or taken drugs :(

i think anything that is self infliced (smoking or alcohol related for eg) and im a smoker myself, should'nt receive treatment.
although, as another FM pointed out, how do you police it? knew a bloke who had a lung problem (genetic) but still smoked, he packed in twice before his operations, and started again as soon as he recovered :rolleyes:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Easy - you say to the patient "we will not replace your hip until you have lost 20kg", or "no liver transplant for you unless you quit drinking for three months". (There are blood tests that can be used for alcohol, tobacco, and many drugs)

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

and just pray and hope they dont do what george best did :D

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Well all I can say it I am going to be well up the creek without me paddle if they start doing this.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

You come and live with me, I'll look after you :tu::hugs:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Ohhh I am feeling better already ;) x

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

If a policy of non treatment for 'self inflicted' cri.....errr afflictions is to become de rigeur then I hope the assistance to those who need to overcome addiction,weight problems etc will be a part of the NHS and not the damned ad hoc arrangement we have already where it's purely a post code lottery as to whether you get any help to give up your particular vice.When you consider the money gained through tax on tobacco and alcohol what is spent in prevention measures(education) and recovery from addiction it is minute in comparison.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Smoking is not healthy we all know that, drinking is not healthy we all know that but we all also know this government is happy to take vast amounts of taxes from both those pasttimes without a thought. This whole self inflicted thing can be bent anyway you want.

How about this a man comes into A&E with a broken leg from a sports activity is that not in some way a self inflicted injury i mean he didn't have to play sport. Or a car driver in a crash i mean we all know cars are dangerous and he did choose to drive his car.

That is a road no sane person should ever want to go down because it could fast become a damn long road affecting many no one thought would be affected. Free care at point of delivery is what the NHS is all about, as for these doctors worrying about budgets i will bear that in mind the next time they are negotiating their contracts as financial constraint doesn't seem to apply then.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Ask anyone who works in A&E about the number of drink-related casualties they see on a Friday/Saturday night. If someone can pay £50 to get legless why can't they also pay £50 towards the cost of their emergency treatment?

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

What if the person admitted and injured was an innocent bystander that got caught up in something they didn't start is it still ok to charge them and judge them ???. Just because someone is drunk doesn't automatically mean they deserved an injury or started something to get injured. As i have said this is an extremely dodgy road to go down and if we start i gaurantee the circumstances will expand to include activites and people that no one thought of at the start of it.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Besides which it is not a doctor's vocation to refuse to treat ANYONE who is injured or ill no matter how the injury or illness occurred.It becomes the thin end of the wedge if that starts to happen because where does the line get drawn and does it stay there.We could end up going down the road of only the rich can afford to be treated.

The one thing that made the NHS so special was the fact that it was free to all regardless of status,wealth,age and infirmity.Bit by bit it's being chipped away at.In my opinion there is plenty of money in the NHS but it's all being wasted and mismanaged by a few who shouldn't be charge of a bed pan let alone a budget.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

I suppose it depends how you define "injured":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/3443107.stm

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

:Yikes::Yikes::Yikes:

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So if someone is mentally ill and slashes their wrists they shouldn't be treated ?. This is one of those things where the fully fit and able bodied will agree with this now but will change their mind later when it affects them.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Its amazing how many idiots are out there to waste our time shabbychic, although i don't know one single person who'd admit to it - so does that show they are aware what they're doing is wrong :confused:

Anyway, I do hope these idiots are being charged for wasting the time of the ambulance staff concerned.

---------- Post added at 10:34 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

I know that would never be the case in our PCT, but we do have a mental capacity policy which would cover incidents like this anyway.

I seriously can't see how we can choose to treat some, but not others. Who gave the NHS the position of God anyway?? :mad:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

ive got over my shock now....but unbeleivable eh :shocked:

what on earth are these people thinking :confused: i want a hug? ive broken a nail?.... are they for real ?

im just lost for words to be honest, and if they geniuinly think that is a valid reason to call an emergency service, then i think they really do need treatment :erm: but of a different kind.

btw, wereabouts in liverpool you from? ... i was born in halewood :D ... i miss it too :(

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

PM sent to keep thread on track ;)

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

Anyone thats wastes emergency services time with stupid 999 calls should in my opinion be prosecuted. I don't see how idiots misusing the 999 system is an argument for doctors refusing treatment though but i am getting old so maybe i missed something.

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

I guess I am not the only one that watches programs with the ambulance service in and shake my head in despair at some of the people that call for ambulances, why the hell don't they go to there GP or get a taxi to the hospital???

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

I said injured and I meant injured.The link above is a red herring and about imbecilic nitwits that couldn't wipe their bum without someone to hold their hand.:rolleyes:

Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
 

The 999 link is an example of people who waste NHS resources. Just like people who spend money on so much drink they fall onto the pavement and end up in casualty.

I'm not suggesting we don't help people, but do think that some people (quite a few, actually) need to accept responsibility for their actions.