sick Boy to be deported
 

Boy with sickle cell anaemia to be deported, 14 years old!



http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/thi...cle3350918.ece

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

And?

Sorry to seem remarkably harsh (I've not had a good day) but I'm pretty sure there are thousands of 14 year olds and younger who have this disease. Should they all be flown to the UK in order to have treatment?

Just because he has managed to stay here when he isn't entitled to doesn't automatically make him a special case.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

The father has abandoned them, and the mother is a qualified physiotherapist. Surely there is room in Britain for them?

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Sounds like the kind of immigrants this country could use.....

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Exactly.

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yes sorry i think your harsh derek, if u fell ill abroad would u expect to be booted out without treatment hypothetically receiving no treatment at home? without doubt this is just disgusting! has nothing to do with do gooders or whatever just human respect!

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

We had a family from Pakistan living here who were seeking asylum. Their father was a human rights lawyer & had allegedly received death threats. Their children had become fully integrated in the local school & were doing well, fully supported by their parents who were on the board of governors. They had also built links with the local church.

The children had been here long enough that they no longer spoke their native language, but that didn't stop the immigration service doing a dawn raid on their home & deporting them, despite pleas that they would be in danger & lobbying by the local MP.

His letter in the Independent

http://www.asylumstories.co.uk/category/grimsby/

I know we can't just open the floodgates, but it does seem that whether people can make a contribution to our society isn't taken into account when deciding who to deport??

Last I heard the father was in hiding & suffering from diabetes, while the rest of the family were having a really hard time, especially the kids because of their initial inability to speak the language or know the culture.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

It probably has a lot to do with "easy targets" - far simpler to identify and deport this family than go out and find the real baddies.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Correct me if im worng but its incurable isnt it? The symptoms can be treated to a degree but it will never go away.

Like it or not, I would expect exactly that, thats what would happen. I would im sure be treated until fit to travel as im sure this child has been and then come back home regardless of what treatment is available here.

I dont pay my tax and NI to provide life long medical care for foreign nationals.

I dont believe that for a second. You genuinely believe that the parents didnt speak their language at home?

What contribution? As a lawyer you mean? A lawyer from Pakistan cannot practice law here

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Yes, I would.

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Thats probably it....this country all over.
Rob homes and mug old ladies with impunity but just try not paying your council tax! :rolleyes:

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

You are, of course, entitled to believe what you like.

No, but as an educated man he would still be able to make some contribution, and in fact had already done so as a school governor. This is a matter of attitude, more than qualification, in my opinion.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

precisely !!

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So his mum's a physiotherapist .... would it be ok to deport the boy if his parents were useless then?

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Good question.

In my opinion we need to 'draw the line' somewhere & assessing the overall cost/benefit ratio of the situation should include a number of factors, of which I'd assume the potential for making a meaningful contribution to the community would be one?

It does seem to me, however, that meeting targets is the only aspect considered?

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Lines have to be drawn but wherever they are there are worthy causes just the wrong side. The Third World is full of equally deserving people to whom we don't offer similar help isn't it? How many of us lose sleep over that fact or indeed even raise that issue in forums such as this?

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

True, but by the same token should we ignore the ones that do come here & ask for our help?

I find it ridiculous that it takes so long to come to a decision on their eventual fate, allowing someone to stay here for 4 years before deciding 'nah send them back', isn't right in my book - ok each case needs to be looked at fairly, but we should be able to assess them in a fair way within a much shorter timescale??

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Having just done a few quick google searches asylum seekers are encouraged to to volunteer work while waiting for a decision on their application and many of the 85% with some level of language competence do.

As would I if I thought it would aid my application! It has I suspect very little bearing on their future contribution.

Personally as a tax payer im happy for anyone to come if they can contribute. By contribute I mean fill a skilled job that cannot be filled by a UK citizen (or in a similar position where they can bring new skills or technologies)

By filling one of these positions I can be confident they will not become a financial burden to the UK and will integrate successfully.

We already too have too many pensioners and children below the poverty line, EVERY pound is spent on illegal immigrants and asylum seekers is a pound we take from them.

Many will disagree and I will reconsider my position when pensioners have decent state pension.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Some would argue that the ones who come here deserve less help - at least they had the money to get here in the first place. What about all those who don't have that luxury?

Yes it is a difficult issue and unless we all want to pay much more in taxes it's one which isn't going away.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

It's a big world with many problems in many areas but we are a samll country and simply cannot right the world. Lines do have to be drawn how they are drawn i would like to believe is by fairness but doubt this is the case. When you have to deport people i suppose you are always going to find cases where you feel you shoud make an exception but once thats starts where does it stop. I wish the family well and hope the child gets some sort of effective treatment to cope but if it was decided to deport them i am sure the reasons were defendable as they have to be these days.

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not to disagree, per se, but we now live in a global community & have to, imo, consider that in our dealings with the rest of the world.

We should not, in my opinion, discriminate against useful immigration because we have failed to provide the infrastructure ,education & training, ourselves, which would preclude such importation of skills - why was the QM2 built in France - because we couldn't do it!!!!

imo asylum seekers and illegal immigrants are two very separate subjects :)

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Not always, greater than 50% of the illegal immigrants that come here, get caught and then claim asylum.

If I go abroad I buy insurance, this allows me to be medicaly treated and when fit to travel given passage back to my homeland regardless of the lenght of my stay.


I'm in agreement with Derek S & WHISTLED on this.


Edit****
Given that this lad has sickle cell, dependant on the variant he has a life expectancy of another 28 to 46 years, and although this condition can lead to a shortening of life the majority of sufferers have mild to moderate symptoms and live long and fruitful lives.

We are not a country that is without compasion. But we are a country bursting at the seams with only a limited amount of funds.
Would we all agree to an increase in stamp and tax so that we can look after people who do need attention, who come to the UK in search of a softer life?
I for one cant withstand another increase in tax's along with the continuing increase in the cost of living just to continue to live just above the poverty line.
I'm not a heartless ******* but......

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

then there should be a time limit on how soon asylum is claimed after entry - no proof of entry, no asylum..

I'm not, my brother & I were born abroad while my father was a serving member of the Royal Air Force, my brother had problems 'proving' he is a british citizen when he allowed his passport to lapse, each case is different & should be assessed on its merits - unfortunately that doesn't fit with the 'targets' set - and , of course proving we comply with targets means we are doing a great job :spin:

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

You should have seen the hoops that I had to jump through when I couldn't find my passport I had been issued when I was 15 and which my mother had been 'looking after' before she died, all because because I was born in a former British colony.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Britain is one of the richest countries in the world, with one of the slowest growing populations. As Homealone said, we have a moral obligation to help our neighbours on this planet, especially those from poor, overcrowded countries.

After all, we have caused (and continue to cause) many of the problems that people in these countries face.

If you want to put it into perspective, calculate the cost of keeping this family in Britain as a proportion of the cost of keeping Northern Rock afloat. Or the cost of Gordon Brown's trip to China (where he had dinner with Richard Branson :rolleyes:).

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

That may/may not be true but if our population continues to grow unchecked as it has done in the last few years we will reach the point sooner or later at which we can help nobody. As I've said before what's required is a firm efficacious immigration system and a policy of overseas aid on behalf of the richer nations which helps the truly needy and doesn't just line the pockets of people like Hussein and Mugabe. Unless we tackle to problems of poverty etc. at source there will be a never ending stream of deserving people trying to come here and all those they leave behind will be no better off.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

We do live in a global community and we are one of the largest contributers in financial aid - Only behind Germany if i remember correctly.

I agree but its not so simple is it, people cant bring proof that they were in danger, typically they dont even bring any passport/documents so we first need to try and prove they are who they say they are. If I diont have a passport you cant send me home quickly.

As an island we should logically see few asylum seekers, we have a natural border which makes it difficult to get here illegally. If I was threatened in my home I would run for help next door... I wouldnt run to the Isle of Man. (A simplified view I know but factual and logical)

I can understand that this is partially down to us speaking english but I cant accpet this is the appeal of the UK, despite what most of the pro asylum groops suggest, these people do know that we have a better benifits system than our european neighbours.

Spain is tackling things differently by providing Libya helecopters, vehcles and funding so they can control their borders, believed to be a main transit route for Africans into Europe. Stopping at source and preventing many of the deaths en route.

That makes no sense to me, first of all the cost on the economy of allowing the NR to fold would have been much more than the bail out, especially if they can secure the sale with bonds as seems likely now.

Additionally you comparing a bank collapse to the cost of a family on benifits? That suggests a 'just one more' approach, hardly policy making is it.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

According to the Optimum Population Trust Projected population by 2051 wil be 77.23 million, an increase of 16 million people from 2007\08. We have grown by more than 20% in population since 1950.
How long will it be before this country becomes one of your poor overcrowded countries? We need to look after the space we have because the UK can only sustain a certain population.

The UK has a landmass of 241,590 sq km which equates to 256 people per sq km. GDP £1.1 trillion

Lets take Nigeria (as in the OP first post) covers an area of 911,000 sq km with a population of 135,000,000 this is 148 people per sq km, not so crowded now compared to the UK. GDP £100 billion

Yes the countries we talk about may be poor, but not so crowded as our own.

In comaprison the US has an area of 9,161,923 sq km and a population of 301,139,947 which is 32 people per sq km and the worlds largest economy. GDP £6.5 trillion

Where as India has a population of 1,129,866,154 and 2,973,190 sq km which is a very crowded 380 per sq km. GDP £2.1 trillion

I dont dispute that some countries are poor in relation to the UK.

I dont think we have caused "all" the problems faced by these countries, and we certainly dont continue to do so, because if we did we as a nation would be ostracized by the rest of the world.

This has nothing to do with Northern Rock or Brown's dinner date with Branson in China. I dont think thats it's me that needs to keep things in "perspective". ;)

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Nigeria has a population of 144 million, projected to be 281 million by 2050. Britains growth is trivial by comparison.

I think we can last an awful lot longer than most of our neighbours!

Comparisons based on land area are misleading, as they don't take into account land that is uninhabitable.

Thank goodness for that - I was beginning to wonder.

Who said "all"? I said "many". For example: sugar, coffee, tobacco, oil, diamonds, copper, platinum, rhodium, etc. etc. Not to mention land mines, many construction projects, and the World Bank.

The reason we are not "ostracized by the rest of the world" is because our pals have played (and continue to play) the same game.

The OP issue was spending public money.

We live in a wealthy democratic country. We should behave like responsible adults, not spoiled children.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Britains growth may seem trivial to you, but to me it is an important issue.

I dont think so, we'll agree to differ on that.

This is true, but it give an average, and like most things they are done on averages.

Wonder no more, I dont view the world through rose tinted glasses.

My mis-quote, apologies, should have said many.
We all play the same game and sing off of the same hymn sheet, but we give back in aid many millions of pounds a year to these countries too. As mentioned the UK is second only to Germany on humanitairian and financial aid, whether or not its to ease our conscience.

I dont think we behave like spoiled children, we are a compasionate nation but a line does have to be drawn somewhere, now or in the future.
And I dont think that we are a wealthy democratic country. We do as Brussels says (but thats for another topic) and wealth, well try saying that to the 17% of this population that lives below the "poverty line" charity begins at home.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Sometimes I think we are more compassionate about our pets than our fellow human beings.

Why does the line have to be drawn at deporting sick people, especially those who could be productive members of our society?

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Regardless of the ethics\circumstances his family has failed to gain asylum. The law states that they should be repatriated to their homeland, or should we just make it up as we go?

I dont have any pets and I'm compassionate towards my fellow countrymen\women and would rather see money spent on those than others.
I also only give to UK based charities that spend their money only in the UK, my preference.

You could if you so wished take this lad into your home, feed and clothe him at your expense and then you would feel a little better about the situation maybe.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

the NHS has limited resources if it was a case for helping one of your family or helping this kid who would you choose becouse that's what it amounts to.

as much as i would like to see all people helped its not the logical decision.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

I certainly am, but thats just me. I would probably put my dog before any person I dont know and many I do.

As do I, 3 uk charities by monthly DD... Childline, NSPCC and RSPCA they probably total more than most residents give in a year so im a little compassionate with things I care about.

because if being sick excludes you from deportation the UK will become an International Health Sevice

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

I'm in two minds...

On one hand, as a well off nation we do have an obligation to help others in need.

But despite being well off, we still have limited resources and if word were to get out that if you come here as an illegal immigrant and are ill, it would open the flood gates to people coming to get health care and overwhealm our resources.

Maybe the answer is to deal with each application on its own merits, and not have a blanket rule for either side of the argument?

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

From the original newpaper article
"In 2004, Emmanuel's father, said to be a high-ranking official in Nigeria, abandoned the family and returned home. Since then, the family allege that he has made death threats against them. They sought asylum in the UK as a result."

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Then the decision falls down to somones own oppinion. Legal challenges are based upon set precidents which would make such a system one big loop hole

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

It is a very sad situation but where should it be drawn then and are you going to be the one who informs those just the wrong side of it? It's not difficult for people to make all sorts of claims about why they're here in order to get what they want, be it health care, housing or anything else. How are the authorities supposed to check out those who are genuine from those who are not? If they can't do that and enforce their decisions then the flood gates are well and truly open aren't they? You make the point about potentially productive members of our society but does that imply it'd be OK to deport people who were ill and couldn't be productive? If so, is that fairer?

It's really not the people of the UK who are to blame for this situation, it's those who abuse the immigration/asylum system and in so doing spoil it for genuine asylum seekers.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

My view is letting this sick boy stay will make those who say they feel compasionate at ease with their conscience.

As a young woman from Zimbabwe explained to me, the asylum seekers you see here are the ones financially well off, not in any danger and able to get away. The ones who are really in danger outnumber them by a huge percentage but are unable to get away from danger.

Charity is a choice, its not something that is guaranteed. I will only give to UK charities even though I have heard some first hand touching stories from African countries. Unfortunately charities and people who want to do good often overlook the corruption that takes their donations away from the intended recipients.

Charity is a booming industry and some people are driving nice expensive cars and living in big houses off the back of it.

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No wonder so many Brits are leaving the country if some of the attitudes in this thread are anything to go by!
On of the things I consider being British includes is doing the decent thing, and that means helping those in need wherever and however possible.
If someone is fleeing for their life, then of course we should help them!

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

The UK has a very long history of doing the decent thing and helping people who are fleeing from persecution. Kosovo is just one example and it won't be the last. In my experience people here are more than willing to help the genuine but are fed up with large scale abuses of the system. How many of those leaving the UK go to places like NZ and Australia? How are their records on immigration and asylum? Intercepting boats full of refugees and leaving them to rot on islands miles from anywhere? How many go to places like France whose welcome to asylum seekers extends only as far as giving them free passage to the Channel Ports. Perhaps it's the people leaving the UK for places like that are the ones you need to worry about. I wonder how many of them give generously to Third World charities to help the afflcted.

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

Correct me if im wrong but in the case mentioned above the woman was in fear of her life from her husband not by any group or the. Assuming she wasnt from a small principality (sp?) I see no reason why she and many other so called asylum seekers cannot re-locate in their own country

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Oh that's right, her ex hubby is just some bloke who works in a corner shop and isn't powerful enough to have members of the army under his command, oh wait...

Re: sick Boy to be deported
 

I have read that 3 times and I havent had a drink since Wednesday but I still dont have a clue where you were going with that.

I have made no assumptions, all my comments are based upon the 2 articles and my view point. The article states the father was 'said to be' a high up official. He could be in charge of milk tokens..?!

You seem to have turned a husband that abandomed his wife and child into an evil dictator.