No Compensation ?
 

I have been on the 20Mb broadband since it came out in my area more than 12 months ago.
The maximun speeds i have been getting in that time have been around 13-14Mb and working nights and using the net at 2-4am this obviously isn't a 'busy network' issue but as it was a lot faster then previous and the 'up to 20Mb' statement I didn't bother about it.
Anyway, since a couple of weeks before xmas to present I am only getting between 5-9 Mb at any time of the day.
After browsing a few of these posts and noticing many getting 18-20Mb I realised it was time to phone them up.
I called them last night and after going through some tests was told they would call me back, which they never did!
I called again this lunch time, and again we go through all these tests and again told they would call me back.
This time i was called back. I was told the modem I have installed isn't up to supplying 20Mb and they would be sending me a new one in the post.

Hang on a minute!!!

I have been paying a premium rate for a service that wasn't even available to me ?

I phoned them back to complain and after a few attempts i got hold of a local (Scotland) person. After explaining all i get is 'I'm sorry but there is nothing we can do about it, we cannot pay compensation that far back'

Am I asking for too much here ? Am I being treated unfairly ?

btw - my modem is a Ambit Cable Modem

Re: No Compensation ?
 

:welcome:

what model number ?

Re: No Compensation ?
 

What did you want a refund for?

Re: No Compensation ?
 

I never said i wanted a refund. I do expect a small amount of compensation tho.
They have been charging me for something which they could not physically deliver.
As for the modem model - NTL Home 120 mean anything?

Also, at the time of phoning about this, I asked to cancel the movie package which I put on for the xmas period. I was told they couldn't and I would have to call back on the 20th when the month is over.

wtf ? - Today is the 19th and i have to call back tomorrow to cancel ? I sometimes wonder if this IS 2008

Re: No Compensation ?
 

You have to keep a premium package for 30 days before you can cancel it, you can't call in before the 30 days is up.

Re: No Compensation ?
 

The 20Mb service upgrades started last May, so unless you were in one of the test areas, you won't have had it for 12 months.

When the upgrades were happening there was a page on virginmedia.com that told you what areas were being upgraded and when. On the same page there was link which said 'Find out if you need a new modem for 20Mb' and if one was required, order it for free (or if you really wanted to, order a tech to swap it for a fee)

As you have also experienced, at any point, if you phoned in and said that you were on XL and were not getting the speeds, the support line also had the list of incompatible modems (Which is also HERE), and would/will immediately arrange a swap

At no point have Virgin (or ntl and telewest before it) actively swapped out hardware as part of a broadband upgrade. But they have always provided information on whether a swap is required and how to do it. If you dont look at the customer zone of the website on a regular basis (Where all info is posted), who knows what you may miss out on. (The wireless broadband trial is one for a start)

Re: No Compensation ?
 

I have been paying £35 a month since October 2006 for a 20Mb service have the reciepts.
Of course I understand the minimum 1 month period but to not be able to tell them I don't want it after the month is up 1 day before is ludicrous

Re: No Compensation ?
 

£35 was for the 10Mb service, it was increased to £37 when the 20Mb service was introduced, and as explained in the previous post has only been in operation since May 2007.

It isn't ludicrous to expect you to call in if you are serious about cancelling, it could even be to your advantage as an incentive could be offered to you to take the premium package over an extended period.

Re: No Compensation ?
 

Instead of asking for retrospective compensation, try asking for a discount for the next few months. Say you should get at least three months at £25 (4mb package).

Re: No Compensation ?
 

I am sure the description was 'Up to 20MB' when they launched the speed. as the network couldn't handle the full speed in all areas.

Re: No Compensation ?
 

Then offer to pay Up to £37 pm pro-rata for the speed you get :)

Re: No Compensation ?
 

I'm with you on this one FyberOptyx,

I had been on the 20mb service for months before I discovered that my old modem was not able to provide the service. I had put my slower than expected speed down to the network being busy. Once I ordered the new modem it speeded right up (10M up to about 18+M).

At no time did they tell me I might need a new modem. They must assume everyone reads the site and will have found the link to check if you need a new modem or not. I only found this link after doing some research to try and find ways to speed up my internet.

This means there will be a large amount of users out there on the 20M service who don't actively check their net speed or read all the Virgin Internet webpages. Thus they'll be paying extra for a service they think they're getting, but they're not! I bet there are thousands of users like this.

So at the minimum Virgin Media should tell you when you order the 20mb service to check your modem, ideally (if they were half organised) they would have a record of which modems all their customers have and send out a new modem automatically if you need one.


On a separate note, they didn't ask for the old modem back. Do you think it's worth anything on eBay? ;)

Re: No Compensation ?
 

By not upgrading all 20Mb users modems automatically VM are saving a load of bandwidth and avoiding having to upgrade the infrastructure, surely you can see that his is the obvious course for a company like VM. :erm:

Re: No Compensation ?
 

Are you saying VM could be effectively hiding the fact you may need a new modem just to save bandwidth!? While still charging for the service!
:shocked:
Surely not even Virgin Media would sink that low! :rolleyes:

Perhaps we should get the media to pick this up. Something along the lines of .."Virgin Media sell High speed Internet to users who's equipment is not capable of providing the service, yet this is equipment provided by the ISP for the job. Customers are NOT directly told they many need a new modem to get the service. The end result is thousands of Virgin Media Customers are paying for a service that their equipment does not let them receive!"

Re: No Compensation ?
 

I know I've just posted this on another thread but:

When the 20Mb upgrades were being done they had a page that detailed the upgrade schedule and also said 'Do you need a new modem?'

HERE (from the wayback archive) if no-one believes me

If you did need a new one, you could then order one for free through the same site

So they DID tell people and they DID offer a way to get it replaced. If a customer then hasn't bothered, it is hardly Virgin's fault

Re: No Compensation ?
 

well the only official way to tell their customers is not the web page they might not ever see or know exists, but rather as stated and layed out in the T&C contract.

that being an official notice , funny enough they removed the electronic notification option from the last T&C update so they cant officially use Email now, it will have to be a postal letter to each effected user to be legally official for their part of the consumer contract.

Re: No Compensation ?
 

I don't see how the T&Cs relate to this.

Anyone who signed up for the service after the 20Mb service upgrade got a modem that was compatible.

Anyone who signed up before the upgrade, didn't sign up for a 20Mb service, they signed up for a 10Mb service, and that is what they were getting.

In fact the modems that were incompatible with the 20Mb service were issued about 3/4 years before the 20Mb upgrade.

Re: No Compensation ?
 

your point was that any customers signing up to the 20Mbit/s service were told that they may need a modem replacement to get the increased speed they were then expected to pay for.

my point is to officially inform said users would require an official notice as layed out in the VM T&C contract,simple really.

Re: No Compensation ?
 

No, I said that any customer signing up for the 20Mb service, once it was advertised as such GOT a modem that was compatible.

Anyone that was already on XL broadband had signed up for it as a 10Mb service, not a 20Mb one, and that they modems they had were compatible for that service.

Those customer did not require a new modem to continue to recieve the service they had signed up for, therefore a written notice was not required.

The speed increase was actually free. There was a £2 price increase on XL broadband, but that was across the board, whether the upgrade had taken place or not, so was not connected.

The upgrades didn't start till May 07. Anyone upgrading to 20Mb after that, should have been directed to the website to order the free modem replacement if required, or advised that if they kept their current equipment they would only recieve a partial speed increase.

ntl had been issuing the home 200/250 for a couple of year previous, and these are fine for the 20Mb service.

The incompatible equipment is STB broadband and home 120 modems and below, which basically hadn't been issued since 2004/5

Re: No Compensation ?
 

and your point might be valid EXCEPT they made a new increased charge and so it is officially a new package and treated as such in that pesky official T&C contract were it states we shall inform you of any price increase by official notification.

ok so its just a £2 increase, but non the less an increase thats covered in consumer law and the T&C.

and again 'should have been directed to the website to order the free modem replacement' is not an official notice.

Re: No Compensation ?
 

The price increase and the modem issue was in written notification (and I quote from the letter):

"We’re writing to tell you about changes to your broadband charges that will be coming into effect from 1st May 2007.

The price for Broadband Size: XL will go up from £35 to £37 a month.
From May onwards we’ll be rolling out a programme to increase your speed from 10Mb to up to 20Mb.*

*In some cases, a modem upgrade may be required in order for you to get the speed increase. Please go to www.virginmedia.com/updates
to check whether you will need a new modem. Internet connection speeds are subject to network capacity and all components working
at optimum speeds."

This was sent to all XL broadband customers in March 2007

Re: No Compensation ?
 

ohh right , so your stating that you infact did receave an official notice (quote from the letter), so in your case that is indeed currect, and VM have forfilled their part of the consumer contract with you.

the same cant be said for everyone though not perhaps even a select few that read this thread.

i didnt receave any such notification for instance..., as i already have the required cable modem (ntl250) and didnt need to be hardware upgraded,just the modem config sent and the account amount changed.

however perhaps many if not everyone else here did?, did they also receave the official notice as you did?.....

Re: No Compensation ?
 

Ok, so I've said Virgin published the changes online. You said that wasn't good enough, and that written notification was required.

I said, that written notification was provided, you said that wasn't good enough and Virgin now have to prove that everyone got it?

The issue was, did Virgin do enough to advise customers that a modem upgrade was required. They sent a letter, put up a website, I'm sure there was a phone message if you phoned in.

Short of going round and knocking on everyone's door, I would argue they did.

Re: No Compensation ?
 

for the people that got sent an official notice letter, fair enough, they cant complain on this matter (theres plenty more things in the T&C to contest if they look through it though LOL) .

if VM personel hadnt taken out the electronic notification in the last update they might have had a valid case to say they did send official notification, but now they cant really prove it can they.....

well, if that letter is covered by the data protection act they may have a record of the letter so perhaps they are OK.

who knows, until some VM customer sends an official data protection act notice to the designated VM DPA officer asking for that data,using registered post as proof of said notice( or indeed, ANY and ALL data relating to them and supplyed to said user in readable form), no one really, and so here we are ;)

Re: No Compensation ?
 

but even then, contract law states you only have a certain amount of time to dispute it till you agree by default

e.g Distance Selling Regulations state you have 3 months and 7 days to say you have had not recieved any written information from the company. After that you are bound by the contract. I would expect that T&C changes are 30 days after they come into effect.

As per J3 of the Virgin terms and conditions

If you do not give us notice of cancellation within 30 days of any increase in charges or changes to the services or this agreement being notified to you or, if later, receipt of your first bill following such increase in charges, we and Virgin Media Payments will assume that you have accepted the increase in charges and the changes to the services and this agreement and you will no longer be able to cancel your services under this paragraph.

Re: No Compensation ?
 

well Mr A is better served to clarify these matters :wavey: , but its clear to many people that have looked at the bank charges options they were forced to persue as they were not getting any 'in good faith' as it were.

that 'Distance Selling Regulations' and 'contract law' are not 'consumer law', and any clause in any consumer T&C contract that favours one party at the expense of the other party (not in good faith)can be deemed an invalid clause in most consumer contract cases.

but im not sure were the 'you will no longer be able to cancel your services under this paragraph' come in to this interesting thread...

the user is more likely today to contest the clause(s) in small claims court if VM give them reason to, rather than run away just as happened in the banks cases.

so perhaps its a fine line VM are playing, it almost seems VM dont think the UK user cash base are brave enough to take the US based board room on in the UK small claims court using the online webpage option now available? or generic SM claim forms at the court(see bank charges CAG website for info).

at the very least id think VM wouldnt want everyone getting fed up with the run around, and so start sending Data Protection Act notices for any and all data, that VM would then have to comply with each and every request, thats got to be a LOT of PAPER for a one off price for the users ;)

Re: No Compensation ?
 

Do you have problem with Virgin, the T&C or what?

What exactly did they do wrong? They notified customers of a need for a possibility new modem, by all legal requirments that were supposed to. Some customers didn't get it. How is that Virgin doing wrong?.

They put it on the customer section of their own website. If people choose not to look at it, Virgin cannot force them to (however when a price on it is 50p different that the one they are paying, apparently everyone looks at it)

How you would you have handled it?

As soon as any customer asks why they are not getting the speed they should, Virgin say 'oh look you need a new modem, here is one for free'. How is that not doing the right thing?

The T&Cs don't favour one party over the other. The Virgin T&Cs give both parties the right to cancel the services with 30 days notice. It even says, you can cancel after the 30 days, if that is when you get the bill. How is that favouring Virgin over the customer?

The Distance Selling Regulations are Consumer Law as they come from the 'Office of Fair Trading', which are the same people who are looking at the bank charges (as you brought it up)

Even if you could convince Virgin that you hadn't been informed of the need for a new modem you are looking at a maximum of £18 in compensation.

BB XL 10Mb service = £35 per month. BB XL 20Mb Service = £37 per month. So it is a difference of £2 per month.

It's been 9 months since the upgrades started. Total £18