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tweetypie/8 17-01-2008 00:53
executions very nasty !!
 
i watched michael portillo on tues night trying to find the most humane way to execute,it was very interesting in the sense that he done the rounds in the usa.the end result was that they all turned out to be very barbaric,a doctor/proffesor in england came up with a method of killing humanley, tested on animals [ i dont wish to offend animal rights groups ] the method he used induced eutopia,this got me to thinking about euthanasia used in switzerland and other countries,would this also be classed as barbaric,humane,or eutopia,

peanut 17-01-2008 02:42
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
It was quite an interesting program, but the most poignant part for me was when the bloke from the US said 'why'? Why should they not be allowed some suffering at the end.

If the end was something that's not feared, eg, go out with euphoria and on a high smiling, or go out screaming, with your head on fire and your eye balls popping out of their sockets, I know what would be the best as a deterrent.

All those on death row are guilty of some pretty bad crimes, as the bloke said, 'who cares', the results are all the same.

Nidge 17-01-2008 05:14
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetypie/8 (Post 34471832)
i watched michael portillo on tues night trying to find the most humane way to execute,it was very interesting in the sense that he done the rounds in the usa.the end result was that they all turned out to be very barbaric,a doctor/proffesor in england came up with a method of killing humanley, tested on animals [ i dont wish to offend animal rights groups ] the method he used induced eutopia,this got me to thinking about euthanasia used in switzerland and other countries,would this also be classed as barbaric,humane,or eutopia,

Who cares whether hurts or not, if they've committed a babaric crime they deserve to die with pain I might add.

Sirius 17-01-2008 06:55
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34471858)
Who cares whether hurts or not, if they've committed a babaric crime they deserve to die with pain I might add.
And if that's not allowed then let them rot and suffer for the rest of there lives in the most godforsaken **** hole we can find with only the minimum of care and food. There should be no human contact except for the single time each day that they are given the minimum food they need to live. no perks, No lights, NOTHING. That for the rest of there lives unless they take there own.

murfitUK 17-01-2008 07:09
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
As a society, we have set out rules which you have failed to abide by. As a result we are going to kill you.

You may have committed the most horrendous, heinious crimes imagineable and have proved to be the **** of the earth.

But despite all that, we will treat you with dignity and humanity, and ensure your death is as painfree as possible because we, as decent human beings, have no desire to sink to your level.

Also, we often mess up and put innocent people to death - so if you are later found to be innocent it will help us sleep more easily knowing you didn't suffer too much in your final moments. After all, the next wrongly convicted person might be me.

TheDaddy 17-01-2008 08:31
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanutkp (Post 34471850)
All those on death row are guilty of some pretty bad crimes, as the bloke said, 'who cares', the results are all the same.
Far from all, since 1976 over a 100 people have been exonerated, 796 have been executed, it's a shocking record imo and I wonder how many of those dirt poor offenders would even be on death row if they could afford decent legal representation?

punky 17-01-2008 08:36
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetypie/8 (Post 34471832)
a,this got me to thinking about euthanasia used in switzerland and other countries,would this also be classed as barbaric,humane,or eutopia
It doesn't matter, its consentual. Most people seeking euthanasia are in chronic and agonising pain. One last bit of pain as they die is probably irrevelent in the scheme of things.

Xaccers 17-01-2008 08:53
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Justice should not be about revenge.
If murder is taking a life with malice, then the state execution should be taking a life as punishment and without malice, otherwise it's no different to murderers.

Course, I dissagree with the death penalty as you can't make amends to an innocent man you've executed.
Posthumous pardons only help the family, not those wrongfully convicted.
One innocent man executed is one too many.

Watched a documentary about Albert Pierrepoint, and that was very interesting, the amount of pride he took in his work, ensuring everything went properly so that the condemned would suffer the least possible.

TheNorm 17-01-2008 09:07
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanutkp (Post 34471850)
... I know what would be the best as a deterrent....
Well if capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent then it isn't working very well, is it?

BBKing 17-01-2008 09:09
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Well if capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent then it isn't working very well, is it?
You are the late Albert Pierrepoint* and I claim my five pounds.

* The last British hangman, who in later years came to realise that capital punishment was useless as a deterrent.

tweetypie/8 17-01-2008 10:27
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanutkp (Post 34471850)
It was quite an interesting program, but the most poignant part for me was when the bloke from the US said 'why'? Why should they not be allowed some suffering at the end.

If the end was something that's not feared, eg, go out with euphoria and on a high smiling, or go out screaming, with your head on fire and your eye balls popping out of their sockets, I know what would be the best as a deterrent.

All those on death row are guilty of some pretty bad crimes, as the bloke said, 'who cares', the results are all the same.
are all on death row guilty ? its debatable if they are,there have been cases where innocents have been put to death.

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by murfitUK (Post 34471863)
As a society, we have set out rules which you have failed to abide by. As a result we are going to kill you.

You may have committed the most horrendous, heinious crimes imagineable and have proved to be the **** of the earth.

But despite all that, we will treat you with dignity and humanity, and ensure your death is as painfree as possible because we, as decent human beings, have no desire to sink to your level.

Also, we often mess up and put innocent people to death - so if you are later found to be innocent it will help us sleep more easily knowing you didn't suffer too much in your final moments. After all, the next wrongly convicted person might be me.
wwell put murf

---------- Post added at 10:20 ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 34471877)
Far from all, since 1976 over a 100 people have been exonerated, 796 have been executed, it's a shocking record imo and I wonder how many of those dirt poor offenders would even be on death row if they could afford decent legal representation?
my thoughts to.

---------- Post added at 10:26 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471887)
Justice should not be about revenge.
If murder is taking a life with malice, then the state execution should be taking a life as punishment and without malice, otherwise it's no different to murderers.

Course, I dissagree with the death penalty as you can't make amends to an innocent man you've executed.
Posthumous pardons only help the family, not those wrongfully convicted.
One innocent man executed is one too many.

Watched a documentary about Albert Pierrepoint, and that was very interesting, the amount of pride he took in his work, ensuring everything went properly so that the condemned would suffer the least possible.
as you say,you cant bring back the person who's been executed and tell them you made a mistake,also sorry is a hollow word to the family and friends of a person wrongly executed.

---------- Post added at 10:27 ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNorm (Post 34471892)
Well if capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent then it isn't working very well, is it?
no norm it aint.

Nidge 17-01-2008 10:48
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34471861)
And if that's not allowed then let them rot and suffer for the rest of there lives in the most godforsaken **** hole we can find with only the minimum of care and food. There should be no human contact except for the single time each day that they are given the minimum food they need to live. no perks, No lights, NOTHING. That for the rest of there lives unless they take there own.
Sirus for Prime Minister http://bestsmileys.com/signs13/11.gif

Stig 17-01-2008 10:57
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by murfitUK (Post 34471863)
As a society, we have set out rules which you have failed to abide by. As a result we are going to kill you.

You may have committed the most horrendous, heinious crimes imagineable and have proved to be the **** of the earth.

But despite all that, we will treat you with dignity and humanity, and ensure your death is as painfree as possible because we, as decent human beings, have no desire to sink to your level.

Also, we often mess up and put innocent people to death - so if you are later found to be innocent it will help us sleep more easily knowing you didn't suffer too much in your final moments. After all, the next wrongly convicted person might be me.


:clap:

Losing their life is punishment enough...

Wicked_and_Crazy 17-01-2008 12:09
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471887)
Justice should not be about revenge.
But Justice = Payment for Crime commited which could be argued as revenge for the crime

Xaccers 17-01-2008 13:45
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked_and_Crazy (Post 34472001)
But Justice = Payment for Crime commited which could be argued as revenge for the crime
Revenge suggests malice, punishment is the consiquence of an action deemed illegal.
The punishment for the convicted to lose the freedom life gives them.
IE take their life, not torture them.

Think of it like this, you get caught speeding and are sentanced to pay £100 and take 3 points. Would it be ok for them to stamp on your foot as you pay?

Arthurgray50@blu 18-01-2008 22:48
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
We should have the death penalty in this country, the good thing about USA, is that when they execute, they do it properly, if you commit a crime there, you do the time, in this country, life, is 15 years, and probabely out in ten, and OAP gets beat up, they get two years, a phedo gets a handshake, and told don't do it again, In USA they would be behind bars for a very long time.

Hugh 18-01-2008 23:18
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Nice to see the voice of reason.

Murders per 100,000 population in the 2000s link
USA 5.4
UK 1.1

People in prison per 100,000 population 2003 (latest I could find) link
USA 701
UK 141

Obviously, the deterrent effect in action.

btw, it would have been hard for Kenny Richey to fly back to the UK if he had been executed.

Xaccers 19-01-2008 01:38
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Am I right in thinking that back in the dark ages when we still had hanging, there was no death row, it was straight from sentence to gallows, one time taking the condemned only 15 seconds between the two?

Arthurgray50@blu 19-01-2008 20:32
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
As far as l know, the gallows are still usable in Pentonville Prison, and there is still an official hangman, standing by, in case the law changes, can you imagine, your standing in the dock, and the Judge (who can still pass the death penalty) gave the verdict, the accussed would drop dead with shock - bring it back, and maybe that poor oap, who got beaten to a pulp yesterday, the culprit, would be the first one.

Hugh 19-01-2008 23:19
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
You still haven't answered the points about a country that has the death penalty has five times the murders and people in prison - which part of the deterrent of the death penalty is working there?

btw, the last hanging in Pentonville was 1961, and it is now used for short term or remand prisoners - bit of wishful thinking about the gallows, methinks.

btw(2), there is a major difference between someone who is accused and someone who is guilty; or do you have an issue with the basic precept of "innocent until proved guilty"?

alferret 19-01-2008 23:37
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Re: the title of this thread.
Executions are ment to be nasty, they show to others that if you kill directly or indirectly and found guilty. Then in accordence to the law of the country your in you may be sentenced to death by whatever means deemed by the law.

Do people honestly think that its ok for person "A" to kill (because it is predominantly killing that gets a death sentence) someone and get a life sentence doing a "cushy number" at the expense of the people?

An eye for an eye IMO.
Does it matter if its painful? Does it matter if there is any distress for the person being executed? it doesnt matter, because for those last fleeting moments that person who is being injected, electrocuted or hung will feel only a tiny bit of what the family, friends and loved ones felt at the loss of the person who person "A" took the life of.

Hang em, Hang em long and Hang em high. Thats my opinion.

Maggy 20-01-2008 00:12
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34473557)
As far as l know, the gallows are still usable in Pentonville Prison, and there is still an official hangman, standing by, in case the law changes, can you imagine, your standing in the dock, and the Judge (who can still pass the death penalty) gave the verdict, the accussed would drop dead with shock - bring it back, and maybe that poor oap, who got beaten to a pulp yesterday, the culprit, would be the first one.
Official hangman?Standing by?Where do you get your info?:confused:

Hugh 20-01-2008 00:43
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognitas (Post 34473681)
Official hangman?Standing by?Where do you get your info?:confused:
Apparently it's funded by the Sun, Mail, Express, & Telegraph (just in case).

Stig 20-01-2008 00:59
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34473661)
You still haven't answered the points about a country that has the death penalty has five times the murders and people in prison - which part of the deterrent of the death penalty is working there?
:tu: :clap:

It's not sentencing that will deter... Even the death sentence...

It's the perceived risk of getting caught... The punishment isn't even considered if they think the risk of getting caught is very low...

Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 34473667)
Re: the title of this thread.
Executions are ment to be nasty, they show to others that if you kill directly or indirectly and found guilty. Then in accordence to the law of the country your in you may be sentenced to death by whatever means deemed by the law.

Do people honestly think that its ok for person "A" to kill (because it is predominantly killing that gets a death sentence) someone and get a life sentence doing a "cushy number" at the expense of the people?

An eye for an eye IMO.
Does it matter if its painful? Does it matter if there is any distress for the person being executed? it doesnt matter, because for those last fleeting moments that person who is being injected, electrocuted or hung will feel only a tiny bit of what the family, friends and loved ones felt at the loss of the person who person "A" took the life of.

Hang em, Hang em long and Hang em high. Thats my opinion.
as murfit has said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by murfitUK (Post 34471863)
As a society, we have set out rules which you have failed to abide by. As a result we are going to kill you.

You may have committed the most horrendous, heinious crimes imagineable and have proved to be the **** of the earth.

But despite all that, we will treat you with dignity and humanity, and ensure your death is as painfree as possible because we, as decent human beings, have no desire to sink to your level.

Also, we often mess up and put innocent people to death - so if you are later found to be innocent it will help us sleep more easily knowing you didn't suffer too much in your final moments. After all, the next wrongly convicted person might be me.


Losing their life is punishment enough...

TheNorm 20-01-2008 09:27
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognitas (Post 34473681)
Official hangman?Standing by?Where do you get your info?:confused:
Maybe Arthur has a part-time job and he's being a bit coy.

Arthurgray50@blu 20-01-2008 19:26
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Hi Foreverwar, l have noted your comments, As l said that Pentonville does still have the gallows, but by now they will have large cobwebs round them, as they won't every be used again, the good thing about this country, is that you are innocent until proven guilty, by a court of law, to me there are too many people in prison, who should not be there, and they could do useful things in the community, there is a big difference, between us and the states, in UK, you have the Bailey, Crown Court, Mag Court, and Appeal Court, in the states, you have so many courts, and different charges, you can lose count, and yes there are more murders in the states, although they have the death penalty, but then in the states, if you get 50 years, that is what you do, it is very hard to get parole in the states, that is the big difference between us and USA, but l do accept your points, you are making:)

TheNorm 20-01-2008 20:02
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34474110)
... As l said that Pentonville does still have the gallows, but by now they will have large cobwebs round them, as they won't every be used again...
Because no-one wants to learn the ropes.


;)

Hugh 20-01-2008 21:29
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Perhaps they're just stringing us along/up............

I bet they get nervous in Pentonville when asked "who wants to play Hangman?".

TheNorm 20-01-2008 21:52
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
I wonder if the hangmen play practical jokes on the "newbies" with bungee cord...

Hugh 20-01-2008 22:06
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Oooooh - they'll get a nasty rope burn if they're not careful.

Someone could get hurt!!

bonzoe 21-01-2008 18:41
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Whilst I agree that it is regretable when an executed person is subsequently found to be innocent, we need to balance this with the soft attitudes we seem to have today - thinking of Mr Newlove who was kicked to death and the poor boys who committed this atrocious act just seem to get a slap on the wrist!

Just make a life sentence MEAN life with minimum human contact.

tweetypie/8 21-01-2008 19:40
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzoe (Post 34474739)
Whilst I agree that it is regretable when an executed person is subsequently found to be innocent, we need to balance this with the soft attitudes we seem to have today - thinking of Mr Newlove who was kicked to death and the poor boys who committed this atrocious act just seem to get a slap on the wrist!

Just make a life sentence MEAN life with minimum human contact.
what your saying bon makes a lot of sense :tu:

Hugh 21-01-2008 20:35
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzoe (Post 34474739)
Whilst I agree that it is regretable when an executed person is subsequently found to be innocent, we need to balance this with the soft attitudes we seem to have today - thinking of Mr Newlove who was kicked to death and the poor boys who committed this atrocious act just seem to get a slap on the wrist!

Just make a life sentence MEAN life with minimum human contact.
Regrettable (imho) is when you have a argument for no reason, or upset your neighbour over something petty - being executed for something your didn't do probably needs a stronger adjective, don't you think?

For instance - "Dear (fill in blank), your husband/wife/partner was killed in a road accident".
Recipient of tragic news - "Mmmmm, that's regrettable".

Doesn't really cut it, does it? :erm:

btw, I agree that the sentences the perpetrators received was totally inappropriate.

TheNorm 21-01-2008 22:12
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34474845)
... probably needs a stronger adjective, don't you think?....
Unfortunate?

Hugh 21-01-2008 22:43
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Ooops?

danielf 21-01-2008 23:12
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34474958)
Ooops?
That's an interjection, not an adjective Mr. Nitpicker Sir. :D

TheNorm 22-01-2008 08:43
Re: executions very nasty !!
 
Death by lethal interjection?


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