Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34471086)

I read in todays edition of The Star, that a woman wanted to buy Bible stories book for a member of her family, but the Muslim assistant wouldn't touch it and sell it, as i was 'unclean', how disgraceful is that, and all M&S would do was apologise to the customer, she should have been sacked, we have enough problems in this country, with silly problems that are incurred by stupidy, and yet we have another one crop up, l am absolutely certain that members of the Muslim community firmly believe that they do not want to offend other religious societies, and when we think the Bible, we think of every faith, l have the highest respect for different faiths, l am not a racist, but how low can you get.:mad::td:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34471086)

I read in todays edition of The Star, that a woman wanted to buy Bible stories book for a member of her family, but the Muslim assistant wouldn't touch it and sell it, as i was 'unclean', how disgraceful is that, and all M&S would do was apologise to the customer, she should have been sacked, we have enough problems in this country, with silly problems that are incurred by stupidy, and yet we have another one crop up, l am absolutely certain that members of the Muslim community firmly believe that they do not want to offend other religious societies, and when we think the Bible, we think of every faith, l have the highest respect for different faiths, l am not a racist, but how low can you get.:mad::td:

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34471100)

Secondly if it IS true then shame on the Muslim woman. Would she have sought employment in a butcher's shop? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471104)

Should your employer be able to force you to do things that are against your religion Russ, and sack you if you refused?

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34471115)

I think common sense would tell me not to apply for a job which would put me in contact with an item considered 'unclean' or whatever the equivalent would be.

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471124)

Until tonight I didn't know M&S sold books, let alone bible stories books!

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471124)

Do you honestly expect potential applicants to scour the shelves of M&S or any other department store incase there is anything haram or not kosher?

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471124)

Seriously?

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471124)

How do you know that the books weren't stocked after she started working there either?

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34471128)

Title clarified for the sake of accuracy ;)

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34471115)

I think common sense would tell me not to apply for a job which would put me in contact with an item considered 'unclean' or whatever the equivalent would be.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34471086)

l am not a ..........................................

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471104)

Why shouldn't she be allowed to refuse to sell something her religious belief considers forbidden?

Originally Posted by Gavin (Post 34471148)

What I don't get is if this person objects to selling an object to someone, why work there?

Originally Posted by bopdude (Post 34471139)

If there's any chance of a conflict be it religeon or faith, or whatever, then surely the person must be classed as unfit for work, if they can't do the job they applied for after they get they job :shrug:

Originally Posted by Gavin (Post 34471148)

Because that's what she's paid for? She's not forced to work there.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34471157)

And, how many people (for whatever reason) have to work in a job they hate

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34471157)

or even find fundamentally offensive because they can't afford not to?

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34471157)

However, there is nothing stopping her finding a member of staff willing to sell the book.

Originally Posted by bopdude (Post 34471159)

Still, she's not doing the job she's paid to do...... serve the customer.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34471165)

The same argument could apply if (say) they started selling porn.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34471165)

I do think she should have found another member of staff

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34471165)

(assuming she didn't, as we don't know either way)

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34471165)

T If the M&S she works in is anything like any of the ones I have been in, I am fairly certain she'd be able to find a customer wanting to buy something else.

Originally Posted by The Mail

When the grandmother put the book on the counter, the assistant refused to touch it, declared it was unclean and then summoned another member of staff to deal with the purchase.
Mrs Friday was so upset that she has now complained to the store's manager.
Politicians and religious leaders supported her in condemning the high street chain and it has reignited the debate over religious beliefs in the workplace.
Conservative MP Philip Davies said the refusal to serve Mrs Friday, 69, was "unacceptable" and "damaging" to community relations.
Inayat Bunglawala, assistant secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, described the assistant's comments as "offensive" and called for Marks & Spencer to conduct an investigation.
He said: "This appears to be a very regrettable incident and the 'unclean' remark was clearly very offensive and unacceptable.
"Many Biblical stories complement the teachings of the Koran. We hope that M&S will investigate this incident."

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter (Post 34471176)

Setting aside the rights and wrongs of the matter at hand, should the national press really be giving such widespread coverage to what appears to be an individual's prejudices in this manner?

Certain sections of the media just seem determined to hammer a huge wedge between Muslim and Christian communities. Must matters really be made any worse?

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 34471272)

Putting aside the source of this article the fact is if you choose to take a job in the service sector thats what you do you provide the service. ...

Originally Posted by Gavin (Post 34471256)

Could I declare the the customer is unclean and refuse to serve them?

Originally Posted by Salu (Post 34471276)

Irritatingly, I think that if the story was reversed ie a Christian refusing to touch a copy of the Koran, there would have been a much greater fuss made....highlighting the unspoken bias....

Originally Posted by Gavin (Post 34471256)

Could I declare the the customer is unclean and refuse to serve them?

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34471100)

Firstly if it was in The Star then I'm not sure how heavily edited that story was. They're not known for being all that truthful.

Secondly if it IS true then shame on the Muslim woman. Would she have sought employment in a butcher's shop? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34471286)

People here seem very quick to judge the Muslim woman.. Let me turn it around.

If a Muslim woman went into a store, went up to a Christian sales assistant, tried to buy a book telling stories based on The Koran and the assistant refused, would you feel the same way?

Originally Posted by Gavin (Post 34471296)

... When a woman went into an pharmacy and Catholic person (pharmacist/shop assistant - I can't remember) wouldn't serve her the morning after pill, I reacted in exactly the same way. This has happened.....

Originally Posted by TheNorm (Post 34471326)

In that particular case the pharmacist was adhering to professional guidelines, so it seems a bit unfair to blame the person. If you want to blame someone, point the finger at the people who agreed the guidelines in the first place.

Originally Posted by Gavin (Post 34471330)

Not really. Its more-or-less the same case as above.

Originally Posted by Gavin (Post 34471330)

Well I never heard about the professional guidelines bit last time, ....

Originally Posted by TheNorm (Post 34471333)

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...l#post34202126 ;)

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471332)

Hang on, you're now suggesting store managers shouldn't be allowed to manage their stores

Originally Posted by Gavin (Post 34471343)

No, I am saying people shouldn't be bigoted. Bit of a difference. Religion isn't an excuse, no matter which one it is.

Originally Posted by swoop101 (Post 34471351)

Why is there all this discussion?
The incident was religious discrimination and is illegal.
She should be sacked.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34471086)

l am not a racist…

Originally Posted by Lew (Post 34471389)

So you keep saying.

Originally Posted by SOSAGES (Post 34471398)

Hi lew,
on the first page we learnt he isnt racist.

Originally Posted by swoop101 (Post 34471378)

She discriminated against another persons religion by calling the book 'unclean'
That is exactly the same as calling the person the person buying it 'unclean' because of their religion.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 34471422)

So she was calling herself unclean as well then xaccers ???? see this is why i don't have any belief in religion all seems too easy for some to use it as an excuse.

Originally Posted by dcclanuk (Post 34471462)

This is being discussed on other forums too, and what some1 has said there, is:




If that is true, then I agree with the assistant. Otherwise, she should be kicked out!!!!!

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 34471450)

Oh Yippee another mulism thread! Isn't anyone bored of muslims yet?

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34471476)

So it's ok for her to refuse to sell the item due to her religious beliefs, but if the refusal was due to her religious beliefs she should be sacked?
Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by zinglebarb (Post 34471650)

This is just another case where someone from a minority group refuses to integrate properly into the country they either chose to live in or was born in (as its not race it could be either) it makes me sick. Im expected to tolerate minority groups I at least expect the same in return but fat chance eh

Originally Posted by zinglebarb (Post 34471658)

do catholics do that often then? if they do then id object to them working there yes. This thing is happening all the time and a lot of the time the complaints/probelms are to do with islam/muslim. I think this country has gone down hill since the PC brigade got its own way and made people like me white british feel second rate with less rights than those in minority. In fact this country has got worse and worse full stop since we all have to pander to the minority. I have no problem with them if they didnt have a problem with this countrys rules/customs etc instead of trying to change them. Do you think a group of white christians living in Saudi would be able to pull any strings because of race / religion ,of course not but here in this country its totally different. I have lost freedom of expression and thats not all the standard British white man has lost

Originally Posted by zinglebarb (Post 34471658)

and thats not all the standard British white man has lost

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34471661)

The law of contract - offer and acceptance, in this country gives the onus to the seller if he or she wants to sell a product to a customer, so we could even say that this country's laws, as you like to put it, were covering her actions anyway.

Originally Posted by grabbi (Post 34471679)

This country is a Christian Country, and if they arent willing to sell the Bible because its "unclean" then that tells me that they are disrespectful of the beliefs of this country, and also the company, whose employees should be addressed on these issues.

Originally Posted by grabbi (Post 34471679)

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...ean-Bible-book

Theres the full story.

Fact is, what is said in there is correct.

Originally Posted by grabbi (Post 34471679)

This is England. EVERYONE abides by the same laws and regulations, policies and respects other peoples beliefs

Originally Posted by grabbi (Post 34471679)

Why Apply for a job which entails serving Bibles and "unclean" meat? AND THEN the assistant offended her by saying the Bible is Unclean!!!! Thats offensive to our religions, and for that alone, she should be fired on discrimination of the customer.

Originally Posted by grabbi (Post 34471679)

This country is a Christian Country, and if they arent willing to sell the Bible because its "unclean" then that tells me that they are disrespectful of the beliefs of this country, and also the company, whose employees should be addressed on these issues.

Sooner or later, they are going to have to sell something like that, and if they are unwilling, then they shouldnt get the job.

I suppose when in MandS, she doesnt serve customers with Pork or anything... again, something MandS sell, and if they want to work for that company, they should.

She should be fired.

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...ean-Bible-book

Theres the full story.

Fact is, what is said in there is correct.

If it was a Christian refusing to sell a Kouran, there would be hell to pay. In fact, that person would have lost their job.

Why should anyone else be any different?

This is England. EVERYONE abides by the same laws and regulations, policies and respects other peoples beliefs.

Why Apply for a job which entails serving Bibles and "unclean" meat? AND THEN the assistant offended her by saying the Bible is Unclean!!!! Thats offensive to our religions, and for that alone, she should be fired on discrimination of the customer.

Originally Posted by budwieser (Post 34471674)

So many people come into this country and try to impose their religious beliefs onto us, Its our country but no-one can seem to see that.! We`re getting worn down by all the immigrants who protest that they can`t practise their beliefs.

Originally Posted by budwieser (Post 34471674)

What about some respect for ours, Eh? Nobody gives a **** about the normal, white, hard working family man any more. Paying his taxes on time through PAYE .
All the time the muslims are allowed to demonstrate and have rallies, If we put up a flag of St George, we`re told to take it down............ What the **** is that all about? It`s our country. Lets never forget it.:confused:
When will the government start standing up for us?

Originally Posted by grabbi (Post 34471679)

This country is a Christian Country, ....

Originally Posted by TheNorm (Post 34471704)

And M&S is a Christian shop!!!

Oh, hang on...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Marks

If only we'd banned Polish/Russian/Lithuanian Jews from setting up successful shops in Britain, there would be no problem, would there!

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34471697)

Theres a lot of muslims born here to, as there are a lot of converts to islam from this country. isnt tEngland/Scotland/Wales there country too or do they give up that right because they have converted to another religion?



I bet you find it extremely hard to find any Islamic organisation that has advocated you taking down the St Georges flag.

And it might suprise you but a lot of muslims are also nrmal, white hard working family men.

As for demos and rallies I cant recall that being banned to non muslims in the UK.

Originally Posted by Ezenden (Post 34471747)

Some quotes from the customer in the above article;



So basically, the only thing which has happened here is the customer has merely assumed they were offended by a Bible because they're Muslim.

This is a non-story and the fact that it's made multiple national papers (the usual suspects, of course) really just shows the disturbing level of islamophobia nowadays.



Yeah, of course. :rolleyes:



Indeed. Such a supposed prejudice Islamic shop assistant and yet they're working for a reknowned Jewish company. But i guess the Jews and Muslims are as one? I forgot that.



This person is clearly a xenophobe and a bigot. But i'm sure they're enjoying all the cash and attention they're receiving after crying to the press about how their shopping trip was ruined and life turned upside down by some evil Muslim.



Said after shopping in a store created by a Jew over 100 years ago.

You can't make this stuff up.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34471625)

Hi Stuart CFT, for once, l totally disagree with you, if l go into a shop, l expect to be served, by the assistant, for what ever reason, shops are there to be 'shopped ' in,.:)

Originally Posted by budwieser (Post 34471748)

Is "Islamaphobia" a real word?

Originally Posted by budwieser (Post 34471748)

Is "Islamaphobia" a real word? or just one that you made up mate?
What`s you religion incidentally? Just asking.;)

Originally Posted by Incognitas (Post 34471762)

I note that all the differing 'reports' thus far are exactly the same almost word for word.

Let us hope some independent journalist actually does try to delve a little further and get us a few more 'facts'.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34471286)

If a Muslim woman went into a store, went up to a Christian sales assistant, tried to buy a book telling stories based on The Koran and the assistant refused, would you feel the same way?

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34471697)

Theres a lot of muslims born here to, as there are a lot of converts to islam from this country. isnt tEngland/Scotland/Wales there country too or do they give up that right because they have converted to another religion?

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34471780)

I am British but I was brought up a Latvian and don't feel British in the slightest. If it came to some conflict of cultural/religious beliefs then I would feel obliged and obligated to abide by Britains cultural norms and keep my Latvian beliefs/practices to myself. Certain sections of this countries ethnic mix should learn to grow up, integrate and deal with the realities of not living in their spiritual homeland....

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34471774)

If the christian had taken the job on at the time the shop was selling the book with stories based on the koran, yes....they took the job, they shouldn't shirk the duties that go with it...

Originally Posted by danielf (Post 34471789)

Are Latvian beliefs/practices that different from British ones?

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34471860)

Not all that much.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34472037)

Interesting that no one has mentioned the the fact that a US online bookstore has banned "The Golden Compass" because apparently it's visitors didn't like the book's atheistic views.

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34472053)

Maybe because no one can see who is processing the order. I mean you cant really kick up a fuss if you cant see a scarf wearing muslim woman refusing to serve you.

Originally Posted by danielf (Post 34472060)

You don't think it's simply religious people who object to other people reading anti-catholic or atheist materials?

Edit: I just noticed it's a children's book, which puts a slightly different slant on it. Still doesn't make it right though.

Originally Posted by Ezenden (Post 34471753)

Yes, it's a real, quite commonly used word. Look it up.

My religion is completely irrelevant and for you to ask the question in response to my points speaks volumes about your mentality. But regardless; it's not the one you probably think, and hope it is.