Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Bloody Eastern European dentists, staying in their countries, treating our people.

http://news.independent.co.uk/health/article3324429.ece

On a similar note, my partner is currently in Belgium for an operation which was either 2 years wait on the NHS or £1500 more going private here.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

I bet they don't get as many health tourists as the UK does though - got any figures on that?

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Given that we charge more than other places and are deeply unwelcoming to furriners, we presumably only get really stupid or rich ones. I think the whole 'health-tourists-ruining-the-NHS' thing is horse conkers, personally, you're more likely to find a foreign born doctor, and what's wrong with that? The NHS would be in deep trouble without them.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

It was a serious question hence the absence of :rolleyes: !

Are you saying there are no poor and/or very desperate people who come here and make use of the NHS without having to pay?

BTW my wife is foreign and neither she or her family have found the NHS deeply unwelcoming either before or after she became a UK citizen. In fact none of our many foreign friends have made any such claim - odd that for such an unwelcoming place wouldn't you say :confused:

Anyway apparently you don't have any figures either so is your rhetoric really any more credible than the BNP's? For a place which is apparently so deeply xenophobic and unwelcoming to foreigners rather a lot have and still are coming here or perhaps you haven't noticed that in Ivory Towers, Chiswick lol

Oh a please don't lecture me about the role of foreign doctors in the NHS - for reasons I won't go into here my family have been unfornate enough to need the NHS on numerous very serious occasions over the last 15 years and come across any number of very capable and efficient foreign staff. We have a Sri Lankan Paediatrician and my children are named after a wonderful Egyptian surgeon without whose considerable efforts they'd never have been born.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

You are, of course, assuming that the staff in the hospital follow correct procedure and get the patients to fill out the correct forms to enable the NHS to charge them or their insurance companies. In my experience, that doesn't always happen. For example, my Aunt is Asthmatic. For a most of the 80's (and a lot of the 90's), she lived abroad, so wasn't paying NI. She came over here a few times, and had a bad Asthma attack. Bad enough that her inhaler didn't work. When she went to Lewisham hospital A&E, they gave her a nebuliser, which did ease her breathing. I don't know about now, but at that point, she said nebulisers weren't cheap.

She pointed this out to the nurse, and asked for the correct paperwork so the NHS could charge her insurance. The nurse refused, saying it was free. My aunt explained how she didn't live in the country, and the nurse still refused.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

This does, of course, all happen in reverse as well, since we can all get treatment free abroad.

My main point, I suppose, is that far from us being the poor put upon British mugs of tabloid fury, used and abused by horrible nasty foreigners, we're a) taking doctors and nurses from abroad because they're cheap*, thus leaving poorer countries with worse healthcare and b) going abroad to save money, thus using other people's healthcare services. Something doesn't quite add up here, if we're saving money and expanding capacity with all these imported doctors, why aren't there enough dentists such that people are forced to travel a thousand miles across Europe?

* This is rather bad news for British trainee medics, who after last year's debacle where there were twice as many people as posts and the idiotic MMC system meant that unsuitable candidates ended up getting interviews, this year it's going to be *three* times. At least Patricia Hewitt's gone.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

I recall at one point our NHS was taking a serious hit from people travlling from Africa, claiming asylum status to get HIV treatment. Things dont change much so probably even worse now

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

WHAT???

I lived with a student nurse for 2 yrs in the housing at my local A&E hospital.
The majority of students were from other countries and were getting their nursing and doctors qualifications over here because it is so much CHEAPER and available than their home countries.

A lot of them stay here because they are better paid than at home (depending where "home" is) but a lot do go abroad as soon as they qualify.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7178416.stm

This story is a sad case of someone having what sounds like a terminal illness, however the story does not indicate if the person was already ill when they came into this country.

I believe it makes all the difference if a foreign person falls ill and is diagnosed during the time they are legally in this country, but if someone comes here because they are ill that should be treated as a different matter.

We should not offer charity to others until our own are looked after, I have a relative (not close) in her early 30's who is now wheelchair bound. The NHS will not operate until she is at least 60 years old, because the remedial work only lasts about 10 years.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

i'm sorry to hear about your distant relatives illness but i have to say your statement implies that u wish others to have the same problems that your family have experienced!

a very cruel decision by immigration again, backed up by express/mail/sun readers and their ilk!

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Have you got proof of that. By the way i don't read comics so don't fit into your idea of a ****** or is it just your anti express/mail/sun readers rant ?

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Yes it does, she was first taken ill in Jan 2006.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

lol i tidy little rant there again sirius, so your an ex express/mail/sun reader ranter??;)

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Nope you got it wrong i don't read any of those comics and never have . Next please

Been a long time reader of AD2000 and Tree Hugger spotting for beginners weekly if that helps

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Hope you liked my centre-page spread (oooo-er).... ;)
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Nice :)

You got a larger version of that :)

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

u hug trees besides play childrens games:D??

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

I dont know how you arrived at that conclusion?

I said 'We should not offer charity to others until our own are looked after, I have a relative (not close) in her early 30's who is now wheelchair bound. The NHS will not operate until she is at least 60 years old, because the remedial work only lasts about 10 years'

I think I am very clear in saying we should look after UK residents before looking after others. I have not said I think other people deserve to suffer the same, just that UK residents should be dealt with first before charity cases.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Have you any proof that foreigners in the same situation as your relative would be offered the treatment while she won't be?

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

I was not suggesting that a foreign visitor welcome or not would be offered the treatment they are not offering her. I only brought the subject up because personaly it is a real life example.

The whole point though is that perhaps further resources would be available if they were not being used on foreign visitors. The foreign visitors who come here for major operations may be low in number, and now and again we will see a touching story in the news (perhaps on the highly regarded BBC !) where somone has been brought to this country for a life saving operation on the NHS. These cases are not common place but they are costing the UK taxpayer.

The NHS is not a charity, it was set up to provide a level of healthcare for people living in the UK, further advances in medical technology has meant a better level of care but also more financial burden on the syste. The top priority of the health service should be to provide a sufficient level of care for UK residents.

I am well aware of the drains put on the NHS as my girlfriend works on a long term care ward, they deal with mainly cancer patients, those who need care before able to return home, those who the council need to find accomodation for, and those who will not leave because it's a warm bed and a hot meal on offer.

They do have a fairly high number of foreign people on her ward, and she does get very annoyed with some nationalities of people who expect the NHS service to provide this that and the other. earlier this year she had one patient who had signed her house over to her son and would not leave, she expected the hospital to provide her with a house. the hospital dealt with social services and the local authority toget her a house, then she complained that the house they offered was not new, it did not have the furniture she wanted etc etc etc.

The hospital bent over backwards wasting lots of resources just to get her out of a bed needed by people who were much more in need. The son refused to learn how to give his mother her daily injections because he expected everything to be provided on a plate. The women was discharged from the hospital and moved into the accomodation provided, and there is now a court case because she is not happy with the level of care provided.

It should of been a simple matter in this case of delivering the woman to her own house that she had conveniently signed over to her son!

This is just one example, yes one of the more extreme that I hear of on a regular basis. The most annoying thing about these people who want something for nothing is the British tax payer is footing the bill.

The NHS is not a charity.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Are you serious with this statement? Have you ever been abroad? Ok, if you get an NHS card you might get some free treatment in countries we have agreements with, but elsewhere I can assure you they will be looking for cash or your travel insurance details. Try walking into a hospital in the US and getting free long term treatment for cancer on a temporary visa. Try walking out of any number of foreign countries hospitals without paying the bill and see how far you get. A workmate of mine's wife fell ill on holiday in Greece earlier this year and had to pay for her treatment and claim it back off his travel insurance. My girlfriend had to go to hospital on holiday in Thailand. We had to pay before she left the hospital. The payment point was right in the reception area and I daresay I probably paid a little more than a local Thai would have paid.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

If that's really the case, then your gf is being negligent in her duties to ensure that the NHS act is being properly implimented.
As I've said before, if my gf needed hospital treatment, we'd be screwed.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

She cant be assused of being negligent, the real problem is the scared management who are terrified of losing a court case. As this country is turning more and more like America the management lack a spine. Any reasonable person would not expect the hospital to provide a house to them when they have just conveniently given their own away to a family member, why the hospital would bother to get involved is a farce. In this instance I believe she should of been removed from the bed, discharged, placed in a waiting room and her son contacted to collect her.

Some people unfortunately take the pi** out of the system, she constantly tells me stories of the attitudes of families who make extreme demands and expect the NHS to provide for their every whim.

On the subject of your gf getting ill over here it you may find the following interesting.

One of the filipino friends of my gf came here also to work as a nurse, unfortunately after about 12 months into her contract (I think it was poss a 3yr contract but dont quote me) she fell ill and was unable to work. Under the terms of her visa covering her to work for that particular health trust, she could not receive any medical treatment and had to return home. During this period of sickness she had spent all her money and there was no chance of getting her visa renewed when it run out, it meant that her collegues had to club together to pay for her flight back home.

I am just relaying that story because even working for a NHS trust doesn't guarantee health treatment, even if they are paying tax and NI.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

That's the sick situation immigrants are forced into, if they can't afford health treatment, and we're talking mostly in thousands of pounds not a few hundred, health care as you know is expensive, then you don't get it, even if it would put your life at risk, no matter how much tax and NI you've given.
"No recourse to public funds" on your visa means you're stuffed.
No JSA if you find yourself out of work, no hospital care even if you're dying (especially if you're dying as they're not likely to get you to pay for it!), yet you still have to contribute.

A friend of mine sold his house when he got divorced and used his share to buy his parents' house so that he could help look after his mum who suffers from bad alzheimer's.
When it was decided she was to be put into care, they investigated the sale of the property thoroughly to ensure that it wasn't just signed over to get out of paying for the care (several thousand a month).
Thankfully they saw that the sale was genuine and so he only has to make affordable contributions to her care, but if they had decided the sale was an attempt to get out of paying they would have sent him the bill and taken him to court if he didn't pay, which would have resulted in reposessing the house.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Not 100% accurate. You can get healthcare even if you have 'no recourse to public funds' as a condition of your visa:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukr...s/publicfunds/

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukr...es/healthcare/

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

GP time is not health care. That's all you get free from the GP, their diagnosis skills.
If they refer you to a hospital for actual treatment such as an operation, expect to get a hefty bill, or refusal if you are unable to pay, even if you require the operation to live.

My dad's in hospital with a broken shoulder after a motorbike accident, if he wasn't British, the patch up in A&E would be covered, but the physio, or the injections and pills to treat the blood clots on his lungs, and the stay in hospital would not be.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

The NHS is not a system geared to billing, treat first, consider cost and recovery later.
Checkin at a US hospital and along with your name address etc you need your SSN (NI Number) and insurance details (or details that there are none). In an A&E situation they are still required to treat and stabilise you then bill you even if you have no means to pay.
The NHS captures information to treat you and then if you are honest enough they will capture details to bill you, even then I have heard stories of them not bothering to do the invoicing as the cost of producing the invoice and recovering the funds vs the cost of the procedure (for lower cost procedures, say an A&E visit for with antibiotics) is uneconomic.

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 ----------

Why so, unless she is here illegally it was my understanding that she is entitled to NHS treatment.

---------- Post added at 10:27 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

Really! I guess we should ask for the forms so they can bill us for when our son was born in the UK. Whoops.

I'll take Charlies - once you have lived here for a year approach. Is backed up with a pretty definative web link also.

---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

Turning more like America is not really true. There are a lot more frivolous or ambulance chaser type cases in the US, however there are a lot more defence lawyers who manage these cases, settle those that need to be and will take to trial those that are trying it on, inflating medical bills or the nature of their injurys etc.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Nope, only certain categories of immigrants are entitled to NHS treatment for free. If she was illegal and in custody, then she'd get NHS treatment as there would be a duty of care from the authorities as custodians.

Yes you should you naughty naughty boy!
Assuming his mother's immigration status was such that she was liable for costs that is.
My personal view is if you're working here and contributing to the state, then the state should have a duty of care to you.
IE you pay tax and NI, then you should get access to what those contributions are for such as JSA and healthcare.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Seems from Charlies link that once you are here for a year Healthcare is covered. The no recourse to public funds focusses on cash based payments. I'm not sure what happened to the recourse to public funds stamp when she went from a red one year visa to a green permanent leave to remain visa. I think at that point it goes away.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Oh to be able to go to ILR in just one year.
Faulty has to find £400 next month to extend her ancestry visa by 1 year thanks to this governmnet being money grabbing *******s and extending the time requirements before getting ILR then making it retroactive*, and then another bucket of money next year for ILR, and more the year later for British Citizenship.


Think of the poor people who were 1 day away from getting ILR only to be told "sorry chaps, Gordon Brown wants another £400 from you"

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

They do it for all sorts of trickery.
I've just realised the beauty that is a 5 year childrens passport. If you apply for it before the childs first birthday then you will need to renew it 3 times as a 5 year passport as the final renewal will be at 15 and a bit, not 16 so they screw you out of money again 5 years later.
And then you double up the passport costs for a dual national. I'm spending about 300 quid on passport renewals this year! Thats a frikking airfare in itself.

Citizenship application, then a fee for the citizenship ceremony!

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 ----------

Well she could go ILR in 12 months if she was your wife not your girlfriend. Just a thought.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

She's still married, and we're no longer partners.

Re: Going Over There, Using Their Health Service
 

Thankfully a Dutch woman has funded the life saving dialysis she needed for the next 3 months at least.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7192237.stm

Now, had she been a footballer...