Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200709...fa6b408_2.html

The police seem to be assessing this device in a very measured way, which is to be congratulated.

I can only imagine what is must be like to be confronted by a drug-crazed violent yob at the end of a long tiring shift on a Saturday night. A zap with 50,000 volts must be more effective than a thump with a truncheon!

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Having recently been involved in holding down a drug-crazed violent yob I believe the police do need something to deal with people who are violent towards authority.

I guess it makes it safer for the police officers to arrest and take these people to court, but I wonder if the result of less assaults on police officers because they get the taser on them before they can, will mean less criminals are convicted.

Safer to get them to court so the namby pamby courts can let them off.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

It's not fun! And when you consider some people (especially ex-forces) almost immune to CS and you don't want to get within baton-ing range of someone with a knife having something that applies 50,000 volts would be very welcome.

Nah most of the time (In Scotland anyway) the Police assaults, unless serious injury occurs, are including with the main charge and most of the time are pled away in deals between the prosecution and defence.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Heard an expert on the radio this morning explaining that the voltage actually administered could be far less than the 50,000v always quoted in the media. Apparently the amperage involved is extermely low too.


http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....811&highlight=

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Get them issued & use em when needed. The best clip I saw of the use of a Taser was in the film "Meet the Fockers" where a smart cop zapped the leading actors with the phrase,

"Sir, do not struggle, 50,000 volts are passing through your body................"

:D

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

You need approx 100mA across your heart to stop it (look up the case of the US Navy electrician who killed himself with a 9v multimeter)

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

As the old saying goes, 'Its Volts that jolts, but Mills that kills'

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Anyone know how many amps pass between the spikes when they've pierced the skin?

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Totally agree. Get the god dam things issued and let the police use them without fear that some human rights dick will try to sue them.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Ah, the "Human Rights" issue peeps over the parapet once again........

When in doubt, disparage the HRA.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

The first port of call would be to find out the resistance of blood, the battery would be able to provide a very high level of current for a very short period and I guess milliseconds is all we are talking about here.

I would of thought the blood resistance is fairly low due to the salt content, and I would have a guess that it also varies considerably from person to person.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Quote from the link I posted:

"The output of the TASER X26 is 0.003 amperes"

Just been listening to an A&E Consultant on the radio who who's subjected himself to the device 12 times. He's apparently done extensive research on the subject an contends that although some 200 people (out of 250,000) have died worldwide after being 'zapped' none did so immediately as a direct result of the shock (which lasts up to 5 seconds) and all were in risk groups which made them equally vulnerable to any alternative form of detention.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

You got it ;)

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

http://van.physics.uiuc.edu/qa/listing.php?id=6793

I=V/R

50,000/1000=50A
50,000/300=167A!!!

50,000/100,000=0.5A
That's 500mA, 5 times the amount required to stop your heart.

For 1000Ohms, 3v will give 0.003A

Am I getting something wrong?
The electricity should flow at a current as high as it possibly can depending on the resistance of the material it's passing through right?

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Normal skin resistance is usually greater than 300,000 Ohms.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

The barbs penetrate the skin though.

And even so, at 300KOhms, that's still 167mA!

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I just did. The crucial difference seems to be that he took one probe in each hand (and penetrated the skin). This means that the current would have passed (internally) from one hand to the other, passing through the heart on its way. If you break skin with a taser the current will take the shortest route between the prongs. The current may well exceed the 100mA needed to stop your heart, but it won't pass through the heart as it is extremely unlikely that it will be located on the shortest route. In fact, you'd probably have to taser the heart directly to get that effect.

Rule #1 when playing with currents. Don't ever hold a live wire with one hand whilst holding on to grounding with the other hand.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Ok, that was my thinking too, so bummer if they spread apart/deflected sufficiently then!

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I'm not sure how tasers work actually. They fire little 'darts' that are connected to the taser and the current runs between the darts presumably?

Edit:

Wiki

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/200...45dbed5_1.html so we are going to trust em with tazers as well?? :erm:

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

The Taser seems to work on a variety of levels, including neuromuscular incapacitation and shaped-pulse technology. More from the Taser website can be found here: http://www.taser.com/research/techno...s/default.aspx

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

You would be surprised how many times someone has a ND ( Negligent Discharge) in the force's and we give them far bigger weapons than a taser :D

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Well, it mitigates the effect of negligent discharge :D.

But, to be serious :(, negligent discharges happen - in the forces, it happens, in the police, it happens; guns, bullets, humans, forget the safety catch, have one in the breech - negligence happens. It doesn't mean we should ban armed police because one shoots himself; that would be like banning traffic cops because one speeds.

Could have been worse - could have hit a civvy passing by.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I still say "Give them the Goddam taser's NOW" :D

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I bet the lad who got put in the bin (and was put through the mental anguish of looking like a idiot - if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it's probably a ......) wouldn't have been so lippy if the copper had been carrying a taser..... ;)

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Or worse even, he could have shot himself in the foot. :D

I'll get get my coat. :)

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I'm guessing that the taser has some sort of inverter oscillator (like a 555 IC) that switches pulses into a step-up transformer, and then perhaps a stack of diodes to form a voltage quadrupler. ie. A bit like a line output stage in a television only miniturised.

This will current limit itself and not be able to provide much current due to the huge load that would be placed on the battery source, and the limitations of the switching device and transformer windings etc.

I'm guessing that perhaps its short circuit output capability is not more than 10mA or so???

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

A very worthy volunteer methinks, it's a pity that I can't find the video on YouTube of the incident, apparently it was on there earlier

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/6980867.stm

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Another Chief Constable gets taser'd here:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....s_a_taser.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIFl0q8dF1c

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Do you all get a turn at being tasered or is it strictly reserved for the bosses, could act as an incentive for them as well, don't give them Knighthoods for cutting crime, just don't taser them anymore

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Cops certainly get CS'd or PAVA'd during training. Not sure about Taser whether they use it without the barbs or just watch the videos.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Seems to have been a bit too effective in this case... :(

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Not as simple as the headline makes out (imho).

From the article -
"When officers arrived at the house at about 1900 GMT on Saturday they were confronted by the armed man, police said.
He was then shot with the police Taser gun.
"The man went into the house where he inflicted a more serious injury on himself," said Bedfordshire Police.
"When officers found him, he was in urgent need of medical attention." He was taken to Bedford South Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

If the Tazer guns are effective at stopping drug crazed Neanderthals they should be issued to all police officers in the UK.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Tazers are effective at stopping anyone who conducts electricty. Maybe if the clothes are thick enough the barbs won't penetrate.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I think they do, I was watching something on the TV not so long ago and they were testing the new guns, one copper had several layers of clothing on and the pins managed to get through and give him a jolt.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

This really gets my goat, that people bring in there Human Rights crap, and how powerful these taser guns are, what we have in this country, is the laws are far too soft, if police officers are forced to face a lot of yobbos, who are terrosing someone, then they should be able to use any force nessersary, wether it is a taser, or water cannon(although not in this country) or batons, dogs, or horses, then they should use, human rights, to me they have thrown that out of the window, they commit a crime, thats it, they don't have any HR, we already have a system, where some do gooder will come along and say, they might have committed a crime, but they still have rights, absolute tosh.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Looking here The barbs are probably 1/2" long, but contacts extend for another couple of inches. If its fabric, it should cut through as its sharp. It would depend on if they are wearing are armour or the cop is unlucky and hits the guy's wallet in his inside chest jacket pocket.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

here in lincolnshire the police dont use any of that paraphernalia, good god man havent you heard of the crime number,once issued all crime instantly stops, no need for fancy gadgets.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

And almost 2 years later there is another shocking (sorry) proposal

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/h...guns-1.1001189

:shocking:

Long overdue IMHO, hopefully this will happen fairly quickly and the local pondlife will get the message that having a pop at the Police isn't a clever thing to do.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Any animal lovers can sleep easy knowing that fluffy the sheep will be safe if it decides to take some crystal meth and get tasered.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04...p_zap_shocker/

I wonder if it made their wool stand on end?

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Link to the original Reuters article here:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKL0...070901?sp=true


( Yahoo link in OP has used up its bandwidth allocation :D )

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Close; not caprine, but ovine...

Thanks for that. Didn't I read somewhere that there is a repositry of all web pages? A sort of British Library of the web?

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Ouch...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-10701733

:erm:

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Ouch.....

(I hope he's told the DVLA and his Insurance Company he's got Guillain Barre syndrome, because if not, they know now....)

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Shocking!

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

From the local paper - the picture shows where he was hit by the taser; he must have a very large groin, as that looks more like his stomach to me.:D

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

From the picture he certainly doesn't look like he'd act in an aggressive manner either. lol

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Just read it on el reg ... wonder what kind of compo will come from that

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

http://www.policeoracle.com/news/Man...oin_25231.html

Talk about poor wording..

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I'd like to say sod all seeing there was no intent to injure and no permanent damage but I'll wager the phone of the taseree has been swamped with ambulance chasers and the force will settle out of court with him.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

That's an interesting one, "no intent to injure and no permanent damage" so shouldn't get any compensation.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

It was an accident and there was no lasting damage. I don't see why compensation is required. :confused:

If you were crossing the road and get hit by a car but don't get injured should the driver cough up compensation to you?

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I wasn't trying to say he SHOULD get compensation anyway... I should have been clearer. I'd be happy with an official apology letter. However, from the photo he looks a bit like Onslow from Keeping Up Appearances so it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't try to wangle some cash from that particular police force.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Except he was injured.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Two very small cuts resembling insect bites aren't injuries in my book.

Personally I'd like to think any compensation should be along the same lines as CICA (Criminal Injuries Compensation) in which case his 'injuries' get him squat.

I don't think its right that someone who received injuries in an accident, that arguably could be considered partly his fault, gets more than someone injured far worse through a criminal act.

---------- Post added at 09:34 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------

Oh and from the original article. (My bolding)

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

This is why we have PLI, or the Crown's equivalent.
50,000V across one's body is an injury.

My old lodger serviced and installed street lights. He was sent out to remove a light which had been hit by a car and supposedly had been made safe by one of his colleagues.
It wasn't, and the lampost had electrified the phone box next to it, which he brushed against and was thrown against the side of his van.
In your book he wasn't injured, yet he recieved compensation for their negligence and the pain he suffered.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

In my book injury is lasting damage.

I've been CS'd by accident before. It was painful as hell but I've no lasting damage.

Should I have sued and got damages for that?

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

You? Hell no. ;)
Someone else, if they wanted then yes, they've been harmed through negligence.

PS Can I come and beat you with a rubber hose for an hour? They'll be no lasting damage...

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Pre-planning an hour long beating with a length of hose doesn't come under any classification of accident I'm aware of.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I could wear very slippery shoes while holding the hose :D

So what you're saying is if someone through their work accidently electrocutes a member of the public, then that member of the public should just, oh what's the phrase? "Man up" and ignore the unnecessary pain that was inflicted on them?

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Of course it counts as an accident, think the classification is falling up/down stairs...

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Accept the apology and move on. I don't think throwing money at them solves anything.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

It helps show the victim that his pain was taken seriously.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

It can't just be me that's noticed that this story is fundamentally about accidental discharge and Cox...

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I can't believe you got in before MLM

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Not for the first time ;)

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I think it's been a very long time since MLM last 'got in'.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Perhaps the Police need more (dummy) target practice...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-10887125

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Taser's back in the news...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11880852

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Overweight, exerting himself after attacking Police with a hammer, compromised breathing after being tear gassed and then tasered twice.

Take your pick of contributing factors to his death there. Plenty to choose from.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Brockley.html

Possibly one of the best arguments there is for all frontline officers to have immediate access to Tasers. In this case CS done nothing except take out some cops, baton strikes meant getting within machete range and an ARV looked like it was still some time off.

If he wasn't content to be contained in one area but had gone on the rampage the results could have been horrific.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I saw this earlier, is there a reason no officers had Tasers? Lack of firearm training maybe or something?

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

there was a feature on BBC1 not long ago on illegal devices appearing on the streets here

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Was this because of the bedroom tax?

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Damn.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-man-lee-birch

Can't believe he was cleared of assault. :shocked:
There must have been more to it but I can't see any reason why he had his taser drawn inside the cell let alone discharging it.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

IMO this was not needed and do not understand why he felt the need to Taser this man naked.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Naked wet man....not the best conditions to be putting an electric shock through someone.

Typical of the self preservation attitude of many police forces. Some coppers have been doing bad things for years but some of them are starting to get caught out with cameras being everywhere these days. Recently there was a case in the US (I think) where the cops all turned their car cameras off to beat someone but one of them forgot, which is the only reason they didn't get away with it.

Some coppers just can't be trusted and putting a taser in their hand is asking for trouble.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Taser not necessary but what action is appropriate if someone slaps a possibly damp and smelly pair of undies across your face? He did need restraining as this may have been a precursor to something more violent.

A good old fashioned knee in the nuts would have done nicely :D.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

A bit more reasoned than the response from the Daily Mail reporter above. :)

There had to be a reason why he had his taser already drawn but to discharge it with no warning when the prisoner wasn't an active threat isn't on IMO. There were enough cops there to subdue someone of the prisoners size without the need for taser or baton.

Of course good old fashioned hands on restraint is more likely to cause injury than taser but that's a whole other story.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

While not nice to have some strangers undies thrown in your face it should hardly be called an assault on the officer, let alone requiring tasering. It's just that tasering is the easiest option for an officer and if they could get away with using it 24/7 they no doubt would.

It seems this copper just didn't want to touch a naked man more than anything though. Not something many would want to do but if you are a copper and this situation arises you have to deal with it, while keeping in mind the prisoners rights and health.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

So like I said a knee in the nuts and then perhaps a push down the stairs for good measure. Job done.

Joking aside, I don't think anyone should expect to get away with slapping their tacky and smelly lingerie in the face of another person without reprisal. Not least because the action disrespected authority and maybe a short, sharp, shock has been (literally) missing from his upbringing.

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

I liked him as a player as well :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37082207

Re: Fears over Taser gun expansion
 

Incredibly saddened to hear this yesterday as when he did not have injuries he was a very talented player.:(