Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

:erm:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/gordo...107095,00.html

This could not happen, could it? :Yikes:

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

what, get a written British constitution thats fair and takes its roots from the magna carter, who knows....

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

'Carta', and although it's a good start, it's shouldn't be the basis for a British Constitution, it's a bit old-fashioned.

This sounds like a leak, however, designed to discredit the Lib Dems. Their voters are being fought over by Cameron and Brown, both realising that Ming isn't exactly the most frightening Parliamentary opponent ever. Bring back Charlie Kennedy, I say.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

If you can find him :D

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

He's over there, at the bar ... :spin:

---------- Post added at 09:35 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------

To the topic, however. I can see the logic of it if it's for something specific, like constitutional reform. Perhaps Brown also has one eye on the possibility of a hung Parliament after the next election.

I can't see a formal coalition happening unless the Parliamentary maths demanded it though.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

My thoughts exactly.

It is yet another attempt by a wholly discredited government to cling on to power at any price. :rolleyes:

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

I think more than that it has to do with Gordo's very real fear that, having waited so long to be PM, he's only going to be in the job for about two years before Labour loses a general election.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

One hopes that the LDs list of Ten Acts That Should Be Repealed Forthwith is part of any negotiations:

http://www.libdems.org.uk/campaigns/...d=16625#topten

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Just heard good old Ming denying it would happen and that the discussions were purely routine. Mind you the Lib Dems have a bit of a track record when it comes to denying things don't they.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

All bar 2 of them introduced by the current Labour Government in the past 6 years. When you see all of these listed together it's quite chilling - it looks like a concerted attack on our basic freedoms.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

They're basically the premise for the film Taking Liberties, along with a few more. There are some, like the Inquiries Act, which bans any inquiry with any power from operating independent of the Government and the Civil Contigencies Act, which allows all sorts of things (banning of free movement, repeal of nearly any law, forcible taking of possessions) at the stroke of a pen by a Government Minister (who doesn't even have to prove who he is). Nick Clegg is to be commended for being about the only high-profile politician who's made a list and a fuss about it.

a) Do they?
b) How does this mark them out as unusual?

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

a) Yes - seem to recall a great deal of denial (some say lies) about Charles Kennedy's 'problems' or lack of.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=151&id=28692006

Then of course there was: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/news/...695212,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Cont...&site=5&page=0

b) Did I state that is unusual or marks them out from other parties?

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Paddy Ashdown: Neither did I touch her on the left leg, nor the right leg, but somewhere inbetween (spitting image)

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Yes, I honestly think the first thing Gordon will do is bring PR in to the Westminster elections (another Lib Dem favourite). That way, even though he will not win a majority in the next general election, he can guarantee that the Conservatives will not either and he could probably still be PM of a Lab-Lib coalition!

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

He may have trouble with that - the political pendulum in this country is such that Tories and Labourites alike know that, sooner or later, they will get their chance to run the country with a good majority in the Commons. I suspect there will be many in his party who would rather endure the occasional spell in the political wilderness than the spectre of permanent coalition and compromise.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

You mean the thinking being better to be paid and ineffective with no real responsibility, than be paid and risk losing your job if you aren't effective in the areas you're responsible for?

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Too right, there's nothing quite like a lack of any real accountability if you want to lazily enjoy the trappings of power without there being much danger of repercussions.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Probably the main reason most peace talks fail globally.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

I didn't realise we were discussing the house of Lords?

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Nah they're actually effective at standing up for the nations interests, unlike the commons ;)

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Still, it kind of defeats the argument ;)

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Peace talks are all very well, but an overwhelming military advantage tends to help. It's often a good start if one side opens the talks with the phrase 'Hands Up!'.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

:p:

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

I've been thinking about this in trying to reconcile Tony Blair's pride in various achievements (on-the-record lobby briefings, monthy press conferences etc.) with the evident disdain he shows for Parliament (today's Private Eye reports on how hard it was for the Commons committees to find out what Margaret Beckett and Buff Hoon were planning to do at the European Summit - they either didn't turn up, didn't answer the question or told the committee to get stuffed). I came up with the conclusion that for Blair, democracy ends when the winner is announced, and after that he can do what he likes. Since first-past-the-post has given us elections that depends on 2% of the population in key marginals, this and this alone is what gives Blair his 100% right to rule. The Lords, having no right to rule, are a lot more careful, knowing that anything high-handed has no legitimacy and will be seen as that. Blair can be as high handed as he likes since he 'won an election in 2005'.

The same attitude is used in Iraq of course, which is a failed state, not a democracy, however many purple fingers are raised.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

And if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, & quacks like a duck...


Ah, the Civil Contingencies Act.

Goes quite well with the "Enabling Act", erm, I mean "Legislative and Regulatory Reform Act 2006".

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6224862.stm

So they were offered some posts, but turned down by the Lib dems. PR move by Brown maybe, but why on earth did they turn him down? They would have actually been, in however small a part, in the government.

Is this get another example of the Lib Dems being happy to attack but avoid making any choices or taking any responsiblitys?

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Would the small part of government they were in mean that they had to drop their principled opposition to huge swathes of Labour policy (ID cards, for one)? If so, it's far too high a price to pay.

There's also a strong movement among younger Lib Dems in the direction of free market small government, moving to the right of the centrist Tories on this. This doesn't sit well with clunking fist Gordon and his high-tax high-public-spending ways. Splitting the LDs might have been in Gordon's calculation, banking on a vocal minority causing trouble for Ming if he'd allowed Paddy to become Norn Iron secretary (which is largely ceremonial, anyway).

Anyway, I voted Lib Dem last election, not Labour, for a reason - I didn't want a Labour MP. I got one, anyway, but I didn't bloody want her.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

I did wonder how they would work come election time if the lib dems tried to attack a government they were a part of. Although Brown + Ming may have benefited from a Labour + Lib Dem team.

However it just comes across as bad for the Liberals Democrates to be honest. They could still attack the government on issues unrelated to ID cards and N.Ireland is pretty much safe enough to avoid a conflict with themselves.

Instead it just looks like they passed on a chance to actually do something simply so they could have a swipe at Labour. The Liberal Democrates seem to have a awful talent for reading the public mood as shown by their outing of Charles Kennedy which has really done serious damage to their image and to top it off they replace him with a dud.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Indeed I have learnt this recently they are better then MPs in my view in terms of debates voting on issues etc.

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Makes me wonder, if they're doing such a great job, why does Bliar want to get rid of them?
Oh wait, it's because they're doing such a great job isn't it?

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

Blair wanted to get rid of them quite early on....

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

I know, back when he had an pretty unstoppable majority in the commons.
If he had replaced the Lords with one in line with his policies, then many poorly thought out pieces of legislation would have made it onto the statute books (fancy pint glasses made out of glass which can shatter if you sneeze at them and slice up the person holding it once they've been washed?)

Re: Lib Dems in Brown's Government?
 

If you did some research you would find its because he wanted to sell peerage which is was his main motivation for changing it all, he is under police investigation for this.

The house of lords have blocked and ammended numerous controversiall bills and certianly without them things would be much worse in my opinion.