Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

http://www.insidetime.org/mar06articles/celltech.htm

Interesting article, which I am sure will spark some debate and conflict, but i'd be interested in what people think on this subject.

Stephen Cousins makes some very valid points, so let's have your views people- but i would ask everyone to bear in mind the 5 purposes of punishment:

Incapacitation
Deterrence
Restitution
Retribution
Rehabilitation

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Voted No. They can do damage with a PC. If it happens, it needs to be guarded and monitored.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

did you read the article? Allowing only emails to "allowed lists", screening for keywords, and only allowing access to "allowed sites" was what Cousins was proposing.

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Yes - if monitored/managed appropriately.

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No, they already get enough. What is the point in putting people in prison if you're just going to treat them like mad? Idiotic government....

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Yes, but heavily restricted and monitored, for educational use, and not in their cells but in an IT room.
Personally, I don't think TV's should be in their cells either, if they want entertainment, read a book (if they have trouble reading, then reading a book is probably the best thing for them!).
Have a TV room.
Much cheaper to provide 1 TV per TV room (1 per prison would be silly considering how many inmates there are these days), likewise with providing computers in IT rooms rather than every single cell.
You also have the issue of security for repair staff.
A single room can be closed off for extended periods of time to make major repairs without having to worry about what to do with inmates.
The same can't be said about a prison cell. If the inmate can't be in the cell, they need to be somewhere.
Internet access has been used by several inmates to show that they were wrongly convicted.
It's also a good educational tool which is part of rehabilitation.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Yes. Email, News and such access. Maybe webcam to talk to kids or something as well.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

i would allow it under controlled circumstances, the obvious ones for me that would not be allowed, paedo's. very educational tool and could help rehab? an experiment somewere is called for i think.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Errr...

This is prison we are talking about? The place where people go when they decide to not live by the same laws as us?

You can tell a lag wrote it. Laptops with broadband and webcams, TVs, all paid for by us mugs? I'm not sure how keeping lags 'entertained' fits in with the Incapacitation-Deterrence-Restitution-Retribution-Rehabilitation paradigm. I don't get free Internet access and laptops, why should criminals? I don't know how he has the front to suggest it. It was probably the same front that made him thought to hell with laws, i'll do what I want.

Prison should be punative and rehabilitory. They should be taught how to use computers and the Internet, but not have access to the real Internet, only a closed LAN that has a small selection of pre-approved webpages on something uninteresting. Its for education, not entertainment.

Prison should be fun? Whatever next. I think I have heard it all now.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

What would they use it for ?

If it is to contact their family or friends then no they should not have access to it as the whole point of prison is to be away from life and serve your time with no luxury whatsoever.

Being granted access only to sites such as jobs sites, alcohol / drug / relationship guidance, etc is more the thing they should be able to access.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

No - Why should they have any comforts?

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and as an educational resource, they shouldn't be used to provide them with entertainment or a link to the outside and it certainly shouldn't be avaliable anywhere other than an IT room at specific times

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

good idea as long as its tied to education

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Yes provided it isn't a right but a privilege.One that is earned by good behavior and rescinded by bad behavior as well as being well monitored.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Me obeying the law = me paying for all my own stuff, having to go to work, having to pay for my own food, having to pay for my own education, having to buy my own clothes, etc.....

Some *******, law-breaking, scrote = free food, free fags, free computers, free TV, free education, etc.....

Let's just get this straight for a second. Prison (as it stands at the moment) *isn't* a deterrent. There's no way, no where, no how, that these guys/gals should be getting computers with Internet access. Let's work on taking away their liberties and actually punishing them before we even begin to think about giving them shiny toys to play with.

Although, I supose there could be a marketing opportunity here.

<<----- Goes off to see if 'www.crims-reunited.com' is taken

Nope, it's available. Now there's a great idea. A social networking site for scrotes, while we're at it let's have www.mycell.com, www.Facebooked.com, or (for those without soap on a rope) www.youlube.com.

Oh, and as for monitoring content/filtering sites. I've got a 7 year-old brother that could get 'round most of the technology likely to be employed for that purpose - I'm damn sure that these 'criminal masterminds' won't have too many problems.

I voted 'No' by the way, just in case anybody was in any doubt.....

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

You've got a 7 year old that can get around net nanny, or a 7 year old who can get around a dedicated proxy?

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

prison is supposed to be punnishment, so no ,computers and bb are luxuries that should be beyond the reach of prisoners, what the hells next 42 inch plasma telly ,pizza and beer. far as i'm concerned they have the right to suffer

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Many years ago I happened to spend some time in care of HMP. Prison isnt a place to use computers FFS its a place of punishment because you have done wrong. Its really grinds me that people\prisoners now days say their rights are being violated and they should have access to this and that.

Time means time not a bloody holiday.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

No wonder people no longer worry about going to prison.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

There's people outside of prison who have not committed any crime, but cannot afford a luxury like broadband internet due to having to pay to live.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

If they're to be allowed web access then make sure it's via a VM connection. At least that way they can think they have internet access - but can't actually access it with any degree of stability the majority of the time.

It's like the prospect of an educational tool with punishment, best of both worlds.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

:D:rolleyes:

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

They can get access to the internet at the tax payer's expense.
GF used to use it when we had no broadband at home.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Would the webcam to talk to kids be reserved for the paedophiles?

Prisons are full of people who have committed crime, these crimes range from deception to severe sexual crimes. I think allowing Internet access to criminals is a silly idea, and whats more it will be the silly old tax payer who foots the bill.

Prisons were not built to be holiday camps, hearing a young offender say " I robbed my grandmother on my weekend leave because I wanted to get back in and stay longer with all my mates" is not a way of encouraging people not to commit a crime.

The same young offender told me "It's great, I get my food, get to watch TV, play snooker, pool, use the gym, have a few beers with my mates, its great"

This young offender had come from a bad family, but making life on the inside a great deal better than life on the outside for this young man ensures he will continue his crime spree.

We should not be making it so good that it encourages him to commit crime to get back in there.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Escapee, should prisons be a place to lock people up for a set period of time and then release them, or should they be a place to lock people up for a set period of time and educate them so that they don't need to rely on crime to get by when released?

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

I would be worried that encoded information could be passed to and from prisoners. Perhaps information about their fellow inmates or staff to be used for future blackmail or revenge.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

As opposed to passing each other notes or just talking to each other on the food hall?

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You have to get the balance right though, let's not forget prison is also about punishment as well as rehabilitation, imo we are currently failing in both areas and I don't think this particular idea will redress the balance of either

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Course it doesn't. It's suggesting giving prisoners computers in their cells for starters. Like I said, if a prisoner wants to entertain themselves in their own cell, they should read a book.
But at least you can see that restricted internet access for prisoners can be of benefit to rehabilitation (not to mention helping a wrongly convicted inmate to clear their name).
The other benefit of electronic communication is the monitoring abilities.
Every email in and out can be stored and analysed either automatically via keywords or manually read.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

I have voted no. They are there to be punished for commiting a crime. They already have access to pool tables, books etc. This should be enough.

I can see the point that it would be good for rehabilitation/educational purposes, and I agree that rehabilitation has to sit alongside punishment in a prison environment. But imo anything relevant on the net to any subject/course a prisoner is studying should be taken off by staff and provided in another format they can access that doesn't involve the prisoner sitting at the pc and logging on to the www themselves.

In terms of a prisoner using the net to clear their name, the system already allows for this in terms of appeals processes and the like. THere are obviously occasions where this is not possible. no money for barristers etc. So I think there should be a monitered system in place that is run by a party away from the prison staff at that particular institution. And if agreed that the prisoner has enough grounds to warrant time given online to source information then it should be monitered by the right impartial people, but who still have the intrests of the law and the public at the forefront.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Would be a lot more cost effective to use electronic means to restrict their access than paying all those people to do it, don't you think?

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

I don't think so. And I don't really know a lot about prisons, etc so you could call this speculation. If a prisoner has a genuine case to go online to source information that could lead to his release, I wonder how many prisoners would be deemed to have genuine grounds for it. If they've been convicted then I would imagine in most cases, not all, but most the evidence against them has been strong anyway. And if there is doubt then the next step is usually via appeal through the courts. Our judicial system is what our society accepts as the fairest way to decide whats right and wrong.

I think if a prisoner beleives a miscarriage of justice has been done, and the reasoning behind it can be clearly agreed upon then it's something that should be monitered via the authorities if net access was introduced. Because at the end of the day they have been through the system and found guilty.

Yes it may be cheaper to use an electronic means to restrict access if all prisoners were to be given it, but my stance is they should only have access to it for the above reasons, in which case it would probably be cheaper to have one case worker assigned to a prison or number of prisons, than having an entire security system set up.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Ditto, they are supposed to be being punished ffs

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

No Computers for Crims.

Whatever happened to sewing up mail sacks?

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Prison shouldn't offer them a better life than what they have outside, if that happens when released they are happy to commit crime and live off the proceeds and be glad to go back inside.

A percentage of criminals can be taught the error of their ways and turn over a new leaf, I would never suggest that these criminals should not be encouraged to do so. However we have another type of criminal who will never change their ways, because prison is no deterrent to them.

The majority of us on this forum would not commit the crime because we fear the outcome, loss of priveledges and danger etc. The people who have nothing to loose have no deterrent and making the establishment that is supposed to dish out punishment nice and cosy compared to their life, outside can only encourage them to fight their way back in.

I'm off to Tesco now to collect some computer for prison vouchers!

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

I second this :tu:

If i'm working 2 jobs just to survive and get by, then why should someone who has committed a crime (no one made them do it) have the luxuries i can't afford. Its getting rediculous - they are there for punishment.

I can understand as mentioned that it may be needed in event of rehabilitation, and therefore my one and only suggestion would be that it would be very limited and watched with a member of staff sitting on their shoulder (like my boss does to me ;)). If budgets don't allow this, then they go without - simple as that.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

So while you're sensibly against the ludicrous idea put forward by a prisoner (don't want people thinking it was a serious suggestion or one made by the goverment, although it appears that some people have made the mistake of believing that) to have laptops etc in their cells for entertainment aswell as educational reasons, along with video phones to say goodnight to their kids...
You're also sensibly supportive of the idea of internet access for educational/rehabilitation purposes in a restricted manner and a pirvilage rather than a right, which can be removed upon bad behaviour inside.
That about cover it?

Sounds sensible to me.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

I agree that any mothods used to turn around a criminal early on before they become a career criminal is a good idea. On the other hand I feel the treatment is unfair to all the good boys and girls who have not committed a crime, but are not able to afford broadband access.

Prison is a place where someone goes as a form of punishment for their crimes, I also see little point in the benefit of email for them to apply for jobs etc.

joe.bloggs@wormwood.scrubs.co.uk

I guess that would look wonderful on a CV.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Well they can get free broadband access from their local library.
It's not like they have to commit crimes to do it.

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Exactly, so when they are deemed safe enough to be moved to an open prison they can visit their local library.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Sorry, your point was that it was unfair to people who've not comitted a crime but can't afford broadband.
How is it unfair when those people can also get free high speed internet access?

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

I still have a point, if I didn't have broadband at home how would I be able to obtain free broadband access?

Yes, this week I would because I am off work, but any other week the library would be closed by the time I finish work. Soldiers in Afghanistan have an allocated time and have to queue for ages to get to use a pc to send emails home. (That was certainly the case 6 months ago)

Prisoners are in there to be stripped of all the nice things in life, they are there to be provided with the basic requirements as a form of punishment. As I said before education for criminals is an exception for using a pc, but I fail to see why that would need a connection to the outside world.

Perhaps a prison Intranet would be a safer compromise? There could be a method where prisoners request online books to download for eduactional reasons, that way there would be a tighter control.

Re: Prisoners and the Internet/ PCs
 

Prisoners don't have free range access to the internet.
They can't go online whenever they like, they can't access any sites they like.
You can pootle along to the library during you lunch break if you work nearby, or head along there in at the weekend.
The fact remains, you have access to the internet.
If you were at work, you wouldn't be able to use your home internet access either.
Prison's purpose is to act as a deterrant, punishment and rehabilitate.
The lack of an effective policeforce and courts counters the deterrant factor much more than any percieved "luxuries" do.
If people actually believed they'd always get caught and sent to prison, even with TV's in their cells, there would actually be a reduction in crime.
Problem is people know that a) they aren't likely to get caught and b) aren't likely to be sent to prison for the majority of crimes.
Prison punishes people. I've known people who went to prison and young offenders institutes, and none of them want to go back. Their belief that they weren't likely to get caught or be sent back negated the aversion to prison and so they continued to comit crime, getting away with it or just getting slapped wrists (re-inforcing their belief that they'd not go back to prison).
Rehabilitation is seriously lacking in UK prisons, it costs lots of money, not everyone is responsive to it, and not many people want to go into providing it. Add to that the low average length of sentence, it makes it even harder to do.