Originally Posted by zinglebarb (Post 34313243)

how do you test the speed? when I had my little play with adsl they set the speed to the condition of the line. If thats the case your line may have high noise levels on it and thats the max speed you can get stabley. My line was so poor @1.8 km it was never stable nature of the adsl beast im afraid lets hope its something else for you

Originally Posted by zinglebarb (Post 34313285)

yeah you have a noisy line the speed is gonna most likely be the best you can get, You could call and get then to up the config a couple of meg but it could well be very unstable at a higher speed

Originally Posted by zinglebarb (Post 34313348)

well I got nowhere at all with mine

Originally Posted by themelon (Post 34315842)

If you have ever seen in some of the exchanges they sometimes have 1km worth of cable in a reel which doesnt help with the old distance chesnut! Generally if you have an old line you will get poorer results. A lot of older lines need replacing but BT wont do it unless it breaks. I had no joy trying to get them to replace my 1mb only line that cracled.......the quoted me £75

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34316236)

I have heard this as well, some lines been km before they exit the exchange which is a farce, surely its possible to shorten the line length inside the exchange or perhaps its a ploy to lower bandwidth demands on the BT network.

Originally Posted by Incomplete (Post 34316486)

More that there's no requirement to shorten the line length and the engineers are stretched enough already without spending their time rewiring cables to reduce line lengths.

Nice conspiracy theory regarding the bandwidths but it's the same for everyone including LLU operators, some BT exchanges are really big and line length was not a consideration when they were built beyond supplying a functional voice service.

My line length is nearly triple my straight line distance by the way ;)

Originally Posted by Incomplete (Post 34316486)

More that there's no requirement to shorten the line length and the engineers are stretched enough already without spending their time rewiring cables to reduce line lengths.

Nice conspiracy theory regarding the bandwidths but it's the same for everyone including LLU operators, some BT exchanges are really big and line length was not a consideration when they were built beyond supplying a functional voice service.

My line length is nearly triple my straight line distance by the way ;)

Originally Posted by Incomplete (Post 34316886)

LLU is especially vulnerable to this. The colo room to host OLO's DSLAMs isn't necessarily anywhere near the MDF so that run between MDF and HDF can add a fair distance with nothing BT or anyone else can really do about it.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34318650)

Note there 'wasnt' a requirement but now its important. So you havent explained why they cant do it. The only reason I can think of is saving money both in the labour requirement of doing the work and the bandwidth savings from people having lower synch speeds.

Its the same with the BRAS profiles, they drop within 75 minutes of a low synch but need 3 days to increase another way to save bandwidth,

---------- Post added at 00:05 ---------- Previous post was at 00:04 ----------



BT cant do anything about their own building layouts?

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34318650)

Note there 'wasnt' a requirement but now its important. So you havent explained why they cant do it. The only reason I can think of is saving money both in the labour requirement of doing the work and the bandwidth savings from people having lower synch speeds.

Originally Posted by dragon (Post 34318920)

To some extent no they can't becuase theres other Functioning kit in the rooms adjusent to the MDF, so they can't just rip it out to shove a DSLAM in there.

To rebuild half an exchange just to shorten the cable length to a Dslam by all of 100meteres ain't gonna happen :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Incomplete (Post 34318946)

Bandwidth savings are irrelevant as the bandwidth BT supply is controlled by the MST and Ofcom anyway. If BT are found to be supplying a contention ratio that's too low they can be slapped.

Can I remind you that Openreach had to get permission to borrow workers from BT Wholesale in order to tackle the LLU installation backlog? This is not about BT being cheap. They are constantly hamstrung by the regulations they are forced to operate within.

There is an Openreach recruitment drive which has been running for a while I believe.



Good reason for that and it's not related to saving bandwidth from BT's point of view but from making sure it's shared fairly. The traffic combing that's done wouldn't necessarily work properly if profiles bounced up and down along with sync in real time, it would require not inconsiderable BRAS resources.

I believe that BRAS profiles increase much more quickly now anyway? Speaking to a relative who has maxDSL his BRAS profile operates in near real time.

It's a pretty complicated system so putting it down to BT being cheap isn't really accurate. BT invested a not inconsiderable amount of cash in their maxDSL system, relative to that a few hundred Mbits of ATM bandwidth is nothing. Consider what BT are spending on 21CN as well. It's not about money.



Not really no. Exchanges weren't really built with hosting several racks of other operators' equipment in them. You think BT like having that extra copper there? They can't just rearrange MDF, UPS and all the other equipment in every exchange, it's not practical.

OLO hostels / colo rooms are placed where it is practical to place them. In some exchanges the space saved by removal of the analogue equipment is where that kit has to go. It's not just a random decision it has to be done based on availability of power, aircon, access and security arrangements, ease of jumpering, etc.

Again I don't see BT or any other telephone company in the world spending massive amounts of cash to rewire exchanges to shorten people's loops by a couple of hundred metres. After they do that then the question is asked why they can't rewire the outside plant to minimise cable lengths. It's really not worth under any circumstances, especially when FITL and FTTH aren't that far away and are a far more future-proof solution than wasting money on copper.

BT are spending billions on converting to an all-IP network, some sites are getting FTTH, FITL is under trial. The main thing holding these projects back is regulatory approval and regulatory regime.

Get Ofcom to allow BT to run fibre to homes with permission to put TV down it and without having to unbundle it and I think distance will quickly become irrelevant :)

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34320125)

I think we talking diff levels of waste here. You are talking about rearranging an exchange to gain 100m.

I am talking about stopping having a km of cable of loop length wrapped around a spindle. This is confirmed in some exchanges I know off.

Originally Posted by Incomplete (Post 34322575)

Could be worse, could be paying £37 for 10Mbit and receving less than 2 at peak times as per a friend of mine.

Originally Posted by >DiN< (Post 34324884)

Everytime I Hit My Max Download Speed I Get Disconnected How Come?

Originally Posted by dragon (Post 34324931)

Disconnected how?

You mean the wireless drops or the DSL loses sync?

(I've been talking to him on MSN, so i know he had some wireless drop-outs earlier, hence why i asked the question.)

Originally Posted by >DiN< (Post 34324933)

Wireless drops, it disconnects and i have to connect again

Originally Posted by dragon (Post 34325023)

Thought you'd sorted that one :confused:

Originally Posted by Incomplete (Post 34324831)

Well no I didn't mention his line until page 3, you started complaining about your line from page 2 onwards. Not sure why you're using 'we' though, I'm not an employee of BT.

Cable penetration compared to BT retail is fine. Remember that you can't get ADSL with a non-BT phone line, and that cable offers broadband and bundles. Though I'm fairly sure that we weren't comparing DSL and cable either.

Sorry if me mentioning my brother in law's quick BRAS profile updates seems to offend you so much but that's the way his line is. Show me the SIN that says BRAS updates upwards can't happen this quickly if you wish.

I'll leave you to complain about BT in peace anyway. We're not the worst off, though not the best either here :)

The chap has his answers, it's unfortunate but not much that can be done.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34325746)

I am posting replies to your posts because I feel you are purposely trying to make things seem better then what they are, someone who has never gone into ADSL before reading your posts can make mistakes thinking BRAS profiles update almost live and that loop loss is only 10db per km. Thus making them more likely to move from cable to adsl. I made a mistake myself when thinking I would get a decent service based on my straight line distance and I try to stop others making the same mistakes, dispite what you think I am not pro cable and hate BT I do put VM down when I feel its deserved and this may shock you I have reccomended adsl to various people.

Originally Posted by Incomplete (Post 34326147)

Dragon - your modem adds around 3dB of attenuation.

Originally Posted by dragon (Post 34326222)

fair enough, learn something new everyday ;)

out of interest what does the average dect phone and a Adsl mircofilter do for it

And btw that's on an extension because there's no power socket by the master.

Originally Posted by Incomplete (Post 34326344)

The phone should add nothing, the filter next to nothing.

Can't give you specifics as I can only talk from experience where swapping a cheapo filter for a quality one took a dB of attenuation off, so I'm not going to speculate too much but effect should be minimal as they are there to attenuate the telco frequencies on one port and the DSL ones on another.

Originally Posted by dragon (Post 34325895)

My line is under 1km here's my particular stats
When i first got Adsl I got a sync speed of 7616, but then i found that was because someone had put interleaving set to ON, had it taken off and my sync speed went up.

Although 10db per 10km isn't correct there's many more factors that can affect loop loss like the quality of the cabling, Number of joints, condition of the joints.etc, The weather.