how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

what do think guys, should we give it to them. come on we all came to Cabel coz its ment to be a no nonsense service compared to ADSL. now it seems VM is going with the shaping tricks for overselling thire service.

from what i read 2mbit connection will have 350MBytes limit - my god that just 45min tv ep :) u all know what i mean.

4Mbit - 750MBytes limit, well thats just two tv eps (again u all kno waht i mean :) )

i feel worse for the 20Mbit ppl, 3GB limit lol, can out done in less than 15 mins or so.

now wait adsl seems much better choice.

any ideas on how to shout at them?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

explain please how adsl seems a better choice.

Its 2 tv episodes at peak you can download hundreds before and can continue to download more at a lower speed while watching the 2 you already downloaded

I will be (soon I hope) on 20 meg and I aint bothered about the cap as ive said loads because I understand the need. I wish those who keep moaing about the shaping would actually try and understand why its needed

Traffic shaping = best possible chance for all to get a good stable connection

no traffic shaping = contention issues for loads of us which in turn = poor speeds and lag at peak time whic to me = worse than being shapied

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I'm sure they think they've been very clever by giving with one hand (20Mbs) to catch the headlines and then sneakily taking away with the other hand (Throttling) because they recognise their networks are not capable of the service they offer.

I would say the one advantage is that now as Virgin Media there is a clear figurehead such as Richard Branson that any campaign could target. But it needs to be something different to capture the imagination of the press and to get Sir Richard truly cringing to be associated with the campaign mounted bu his very own customers.

An easy, although not inventive start is a carefully thought out and worded online petition.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

well here we have a supporter lol, well sorry but this toppic is for ppl who doesnt like shaping, so if u like shaping u can live withit, dont expect other to do so ? with respect :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

true... theres plenty of time outside the "on peak" hours to do your downloading.
traffic Shaping is 100% better then a capped service in my opinion.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

with respect I seriously think you have no idea of why the need for shaping exists. I would rather the 20 or so billion quid was spent 10 years ago implementing a full fibre optic network nationwide but they didnt. 21st century Networks might well be the answer to our prayers but this will not be completed until 2012. Something is needed to take the strain why not come up with a better solution if you can

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

simple VM does not have to offer upserd speeds like 20Mb service if they cant handel. the simple solution, like offer 5Mbit service, but keep it unmetered, unlimted. i am sure more ppl go for 5Mbit unmetered serivce over 20Mbit f ed up service.

come on guys it not rocket science, if ur networks cant handle, simple dont offer it.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

How about this for radical - VM sell a service which they know their network is capable of!

Are you saying it makes sense for VM to keep increasing the speed when they know their network is not capable of the speed customers are paying for, so much so that they then have to sneakily grab some of that back through the backdoor

I don't like the feeling of being taken for a mug by anyone.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Are you a leech are you gonna regualrly download 3 gig in the 4 hours ? if so what you download? I am a leech and being put out a little on peak times isnt gonna change that I get plenty out of my connection if you catch my drift so im happy enough a chappie not to keep complaining

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Why don't we start a campaign asking bandwidth abusers to use their connections responsibly instead?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

here is somethink some posted on the shaping section;

quote:

a good comparison (you may not think so) but on a certain section of the M25 there were always snarl-ups/accidents/traffic concertining from 70/80mph down to 20/30mph then moving off again for no apparent reason (this bit,i know doesnt make much sense!) but the solution did.they made it a strict 50mph speed limit,no-one was allowed to switch lanes and a lot of the aforementioned problems were solved.

end quote.


this back up what said above. like my mum use to say, dont run before u can walk. VM needs to get this into thier heads. but i think vm is trying to sprint as well with 50Mbit service, hope they stop at the trial stage.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

:tu:

I will simply download my nzbs and import them into newsbin off peak and just game and browse and stream the odd stuff on peak which is no different to what I do now :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

So i'm a bandwidth abuser eh, I work from home mostly doing video editing and constantly download and upload to the works server via their upload 2Mbps connection meaning I'm downloading from them at around 240Kbps, at that speed which is a FIFTH of the speed I'm paying for I'll still break their limits within 3.5 hours.

Having said that, they'll then throttle my bandwidth to 5mbps (I think) which will then enable me to continue AT THE VERY SAME SPEED which caused me to be a 'bandwidth abuser' as you called me.

So all this decision has done is to pee me off, which isn't hard at the moment because i'm now heading into my 3rd week of getting a service of less than 1Mbps, more time on the phone today being told there is no problem and being asked to do stupid tests

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

why don't you get your work to provide you with the right tools to do the job then - here we have a 2mb leased line & our typist who works from home has been provided with a 1mb leased line which means she has no problems sending or receiving stuff

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I will no doubt, continue with the sub par capped shaped service that ihas been the 10mbit on the POPLAR UBRs for the last 3 months. . Of Course it will be Re badged as 20Mbit and ill be paying an extra few quid for it.

My contract is up in June and thats getting closer everyday. I dislike having an internet connection i cannot use in the evenings cos of over subscription

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

dont be daft, not every work place can afford leased lines, i hope u know how much they cost, specially if ur a small business.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

yes I do know how much they cost I pay the bills - I often have to explain he difference between a leased line & residential broadband to people here when they ask why we only have 2mb when they have 10mb at home

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Hi Zing,

Well some of us do understand the need for shaping, but you have to agree that Virgin are shooting themselves in the foot here.

It's blatantly obvious that the network is struggling, just look at the threads with people having problems (myself included) speeds have been atrocious over the past days.

We've been suffering speeds of down to around 200kb/s, some even lower, and this can't be the shaping, as that is only supposed to halve our speed. These speeds are happening from around 11 am, way outside the shaping hours.

There are without doubt many users who, due to work/family/whatever commitments are unable to surf during non-shaped hours.

Suggestions of downloading overnight, well that just costs more electricity for the user, and in this global warming world, shouldn't we be trying to save electricity?

Virgin should stop the ads in the Media claiming to be "Broadband without limits", this is clearly no longer the case. There are limits now, limited speeds when exceeding certain download amounts.

The limits imposed, 350Mb, 750Mb and 3Gb, well they are just plain stupid limits, you know yourself how big media clips, webisodes, film trailers, game updates etc, can be.

I know the idea is to stop the leechers, and I'm be for that, but the way they are trying to do it, isn't going to work, and we normal surfers are suffering badly from the network not coping. There is simply too much high size content on the net nowadays for these newly imposed caps to be realistic.

Ok admittedly, most won't be downloading that every day, but my point is shouldn't they get the network sorted by other means before limiting us with shaping, just to claim they have a 20Mb line? That is so obviously a marketing strategy.

As for the top 5% of downloaders who will be shaped, will they be notified ?

The T&C's say that users will be notified of changes. Did anyone get an email with the changes ? Just putting the changes on the site and hoping everyone will read them, that is not "notifying" to me.

It isn't that hard for a company like Virgin to mass email all users with the new T&C's, at least then they could honestly say that they have notified all users.

Those are just a few points that I think are valid.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Why can't you bloody shaper whiners just bugger of.

If you don't like the service then BLOODY!!! LEAVE

sorry for the out burst ppl but the whiners on this board are really beginning to get on my bloody nerves.

I know it's a forum and ppl can and will post there highs and there woes but come on how many threads are there moaning about the update schedule or traffic shaping or how they pay for a service that they ain't getting, YES i am 1 of the lucky 1's that doesn't have any problems with my 10m/b BB service i even get a constant 9.5 on any speed test most of the time day or night so i ain't a whiner..
My only advice to these whiners is leave or downgrade yr service to what you are actually getting i.e if you pay for 10mb and are only getting 5 then ring CS and downgrade to what you are getting untill they sort out the problem IT'S THAT SIMPLE


and to beat you mods to the punch yes IMHO i do think the large red text is needed.. srry :) ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

So your plan is to petition for slower speeds, just so you know for sure it's guaranteed? That's crazy, why not just take the higher speeds and if you get throttled at peak times so what (as that's what you would get guaranteed).

Jon

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

soory i didnt mean to rude thier.

but yea businees service or residential serivce, we should all get the serivce advertised, most of all serivce we pay for.

VM sell all thier serivce as NO download Limit, but they implemet a download limit betwwen 4-12, ppl may not see it as limit, but think of like this, 4Mbit/sec u can get maxmium of 14gigs between 4-12pm. but now this is limited to 7gigs. so HOW can they say its unlimited service.

---------- Post added at 09:27 ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 ----------

lol like i said, thier are ppl like me who does care when we do get shaping, if u not bothered by it, all i ask is keep quite, and let the ppl who do mind get some solutions to our problem. actually i dont have the problem yet, when it does knock on my door i want to be ready.

also u dont seem to understand many ppl are on 12 months contact when this shaping is intrduced, now that have to pay penality ro leave, when all they want is what they pay for. man ur ****ing me offfffffffffffffff. go away lol.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

It really comes to something when a man turns against another man for eating all his Mc'D burger he bought, and not save some for him for when he's hungry later :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I have the choice of travelling to work each day or working from home and working from home suits my family life, I can also be more productive instead of spending 3hrs a day in a car.

The comical thing is that at the moment, even getting less than 1Mbps through a crap service I can still break their limit, does that mean the're then going to throttle UP my connection speed to 5Mbps

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Oh yeah, cos the anticap campaign was a roaring success... :LOL: :Sprint:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

whattttt?

---------- Post added at 09:41 ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 ----------

not slower speeds, u dont seem to get the concept lol, there is no way VM can offer the 20Mbit service at a decent level, is just look good paper that all.

when u were little u crwled, then u walkled then ran right?

i am just telling VM boffines(so they call it) to bloddy have thier netowrk management right.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

But Zingy for that stuff 3GB is enough.... but 350mb isnt....:(

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Good luck with your campaign!
Youre gonna need it :)

Im all for this shaping, its a good thing imo.

Very fair on 10MB, im not so sure about the 2/4Meg allowances between 4-12.
I cant see VM changing this tho, so you guys will either have to upgrade your tier or change providers unfortunately, thats the way of the world unfortunately.

But hey have you heard of this thing called downloading outside of those times, and also this wonderful invention called leaving you PC switched on downloading while you are at work!

Its amazing!

You think ADSL is better? My My move to Pipex and then you will see "Real Traffic Shaping" LOL ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

do you really think any company cares whether you like shaping or not? i dont think so its a need not a want and if it wasnt needed it wouldnt be there, its not like virgin just want to shape everybody because they can or just feel like it...there is an actual need for it


and another thing as ive said before it is unlimited downloads, its the damn flaming speed that isnt unlimited, get them right

yes im sick of all the moaning gits around here about this and a few other things, as other people have said, if you dont like it, LEAVE, it really is that simple and when you leave lets see if you dont find something to moan about that service instead.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

So going over the 3GB limit you get cut to 5Meg, which surely is more than fast enough for anyone isn't it ?? And it's much better than a Hard Cap & being cut off for the rest of the Peak Period !!

I think it's still 4Meg faster than i'd get on ADSL

There's still 16 hours of the Day to download as much as you want to !! :)

I say good one for coming forward and telling poeple about these limits, and slowing down the people who leech off Newsgroups and Torrents 24/7

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Why do some of the pro throttling people have this crazy idea? and of the opinion that this is all that is needed to do to make everyone happy? :confused:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Yes I apologise, it was a really really crazy idea!!! :D:D

It wont happen again ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Then you should be using a business connection. VM's home broadband is meant for home users, not business users.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Because it's what alot of people do, if I'm in in the evening, I only surf the net and use xbox live. My downloads run over night or when I'm at work. I connect remotely and set them up, it's easy.

Traffic shaping is better than a monthly limit and it's only a few hours a day. Why do people have to downloaded 24/7 at full speed, do you just d/l for something to do?

Virgin is still better than ADSL for limits and a reliable connection, so suck it up and stop whinging.:mad:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Good! :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Your suggestion is ridiculous, why should those who don't download download download have to suffer with a 5Mbit connection just to appease those who suffer from downloading OCD.

I love my 10Mbit connection and look forward to getting 20Mbit, it'll allow me to download the same content in upto half the time, fabulous!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

What you do with your connection is not going to be the same as what a lot of other people do with theirs. and please will people stop accusing the people of complaining, of downloading 24/7.

Virgin is not better than ADSL for limits and a reliable connection. your opinion is not fact. so suck it up yourself.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

"Traffic shaping is better than a monthly limit "

Amen to that.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I've used both and can assure you cable is better, most ADSL providers enforce caps and limits.

Yes everyone uses their connection differently, but the majority of users will use their connection in the evening, so there is always going to be more strain on the network at these times. I'd rather have 5mb than 1mb because not shaping was in place. At the end of the day the service is sold as upto 10mb, it doesn't say 10mb all the time.

I also think you'll find many people share my opinion about ADSL and Cable.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

if they dont "download download download" as you say why on earth would they need a 20 meg connection?
for a web page?? that must be some webby :shocked:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

i download at full speed most days,all day. im on a 10mb connection but get a contant 7.5mb-8mb speed which i can live with

i choose to do this as i pay for the service and i will use it as i please. when i get shaping applied to me i cant moan as ive used my connection to the max for a long time,plus ive never had any problems with my line etc etc

i was wandering if because my area is not as populated with as many vm users(as bigger cities),perhaps that why the speeds are constant reliable?

by the way im the newton abbot area(south west)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I download a fair bit, about 100gigs a month, though I only download stuff I want and am going to use. My bandwidth usage has stayed pretty constant the last few years as my speed has gone up.

So, I want a 20mbit connection, so I can get the stuff I want, quick! ...I would of thought that was obvious.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

damn right!!!!

totaly agree with that.

i look at it like this, when i get my 20mb upgrade i will get stuff quicker fair enough but i will also get twice as much!!!! if i pay for something im gonna use it to the limits!!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

i didn't mention you i said they, the ones you said don't "download download download"

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

In principle I'm in favour of traffic shaping. What's galling me is that outside of these peak hours, they can't/won't provide me with the service I'm paying for. I'm lucky if I get above a 5mb connection and I have never been able to achieve anywhere near the 20mb I'm paying for

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Hello I dont spose you run a certain portal do you lol . Sorry to hear about yoru speed issues

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I'm sure Zingle will agree with me here...

It's better to have 20meg from 11pm till 4pm the next day and then traffic shaped still with a decent speed from 4pm till 11pm than it is to have 4-5meg on ADSL with traffic shaping and caps 24/7. Use a download manager if you have to go to work?

My work colleague can't access the PS network because they don't traffic shape it, they block it completely. The ISP knows this and wants him to provide an IP so they can look into it.

I thank my lucky stars every day i can get VM.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Hi Zing,

No, I don't run any portals, game servers (not a gamer!) or other similar things, I use a bit of P2P now and then to catch up on any TV series I might have missed, (maybe once a week), or a newsgroup late nights.

My average monthly download is around 20GB, in fact just checked, I've downloaded 58.7GB from newsgroups since Feb.(4 months).. hardly enough to be called a leecher now is it?

Speed, well it seems to have stabilised again, running at 3.3Mb/s, wonder how it will be this evening.

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------

Oh and if you mean a certain website, well no that's not mine, just a very unlucky coincidence that the site name is similar to mine!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I'm happy with the shaping.

I don't download 3GB or more between 4-12 and if others are going to mess up my connection being selfish, bring on the shaping!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I hate to say it tho, but I dont understand what people aim to acheive by all this uproar and complaining?

When was the last time you heard of a ADSL provider caving in to pressure from their customers about the shaping they have implemented and abandoning it?

Its just not gonna happen, as I have said before if people dont like it, they have two choices.

1. Move to another provider.
2. Upgrade to a higher tier.

Serious question now for the people that are anti shaping, do you guys think if you moan and complain hard enough that VM are just gonna drop it and let you carry on as you have been?

No I didnt think so.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Quick question.... Do people actually think that they'll max out 20mbit on a html browse/download? Maybe Microsoft, nvidia etc but 99% of the WWW won't be able to give you those speeds, and probably torrents etc won't be able too either.

There is a term in the PC hardware world known as E-Penis (people who use the fastest hardware for the sake if it being the fastest). 20mb is just an I-Penis. :p:

Traffic shaping for me is :td::tu:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I've no great issue with shaping - so long as I get a stable connection.

One question i have is this.

If I remember right, The hours are 4pm-12pm. If you download more than your limit, they halve your download rate for 4 hours

does that rate drop get lifted at 12:01am? - or is it 4 whole hours? - anyone know?

Is the limit only counted within peak time, or do you get an instant reduction at 4pm if you've already exceeded your limit?

Maybe this is all documented somewhere, but i've not seen it made clear.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

You really are a joke, do you work for PR Dept of VM (NTL) ?

So your one of the users who is happy to get shafted, hope you pay cash for a Mondeo some day and when you arrive to pick it up later you get a Fiesta for your cash LOL.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

downloading OCD? wtf is that lol

umm well its simple get it threw UR d***p head lol, VM can support the 20Mbits speeds!!!!!!!!!, i am not aying we should never get 20Mbit conneciion, but make sure the ****ing netowrk can handle the traffic!!!!!!!!.

---------- Post added at 17:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:35 ----------


not all can move since thier on a 12 months contact and have to payh to disconnect.!!!!!!!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I hate stepping into these big arguments, but guys, it's common sense to shape the network.

Virgin Media's broadband connections are shared, as are every other providers. Thats the way it is, and always has been, accept this. It therefore, is fair, and makes sense to impose restrictions if somebody's usage is going to affect everyone else on the same line. Dont get me wrong, I hate limits of any kind. But there's no escaping this one, thats how the network has been designed, and thats how everybodys network is setup - unless of course you want to pay for your own dedicate line with its own bandwidth.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

yo, ur more than welcome to join lol, but at least ur putting ur reasos :)

not all ISPs, do it, i know 4 a fact that BE ISP, thier BE Pro serivce which £40 with 24Mbits upload and 2.4Mbits upload is Unlimited and uncapped.

same as ADSL24, but thier unlimited service is £66 ponds a month

i ordered the BE isp to my home today, i know is goona be good coz i seen it in action, so i might be saying bye bye to virgin, or i mabe keep the two. need one for businees line.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I think it's quite funny how we all have such strong but differing views on the subject.

It's plain and simple for me that the current network cannot cope with 20mbps, there is currently very little online where you could use the full 20mbps.

They are upgrading us, even though they can't handle it and I personally don't want 20mbps because I can't make use of it but then they're going to reduce my speed because they can't cope with the speed i don't want and won't use !!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

There is only so much "Legal" content a user can download but there is so much more "Illegal" content out there.

Doesnt it seem to others and not just ME that those that bitch, whinge and cry about being shapped are the ones who are more likely to download illegal content, stolen software, copyrighted films and TV shows that they shouldnt have on their PC's in the first place. Its those who are abusing the service and then crying about being shapped that are screwing it up for those of us who try to use the system fairly.

Those that are harping on about shaping that probrably end up down at the local boot sale selling films 3 for a tenner.

VM are trying to be fair to everyone, just seems that some people are to THICK to take this information in.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

please show me where you pay for a 2/4/10(20)mb dedicated line off virgin?

when you buy that mondeo, you buy it all for you, you internet connection isnt only for you

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Go use joost...and see how quickly your bandwith goes, then enjoy the service not working because you have just been capped in half.

There is plenty of legal movies, HD content and music which a user can download so how about YOU stop being so thick as to what a user does online?

If someone is paying top price for a top tier which is supposed to be unlimited, then they can and SHOULD use it's to it's potential, that's what the connection is there for, so you can use it.

Im glad you enjoy being capped WHEN people are actually home and using their net.

funny only time it's uncapped is when normal none lazy people are at work.

Not everyone like's to leave their pc's on at night just to download something and nor should they have to.

they pay for a 24/7 service and they should bloody well get it.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I wouldnt know what its like to use the PC during the day mate, im out signing on and working on the side taking money from you, you hard working taxpayer you LOLOLOLOLOL



And I pay for a service too and why should my service be compromised because some leech down the road wants to download 24\7?


Oh and its not a "CAP" your sevice doesnt just stop, you get limited, but I guess you dont get the difference :p:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Erm. Yes it is, that's why you is the key word. Agreed, the network is shared, but you're entitled to however much you pay for.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I do get the difference, but capping my connection in half affects my service from joost and any other online streaming services, thats called limiting my service.

Im glad i at least have the self respect to get up and go to work everyday to provide for me and my family, makes me more of a man than most of the idiotic lazy people in the UK.

Your right, your connection shouldnt be compromised, but listen here, if VM cannot people actually using what their connections are paid for, they shouldnt keep putting more people onto oversubscribed UBRS should they.

They should spend money on upgrading the network to handle it.

You dont seem very bright do you, so your mad at people actually using their connection to the potential it's made for when you really should be complaining to VM for not upgrading their network to handle things.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

and what do you pay for? a dedicated 10mb line? NO! a shared (with a lot of people) 10mb line? YES!

what you're "entitled to":

20mb/20 people = 1mb
10mb/20 people = 512kbps
4mb/20 people = 200kbps
2mb/20 people = 100kbps

once people start getting that fact into their heads they'll start understanding that NO ISP will give the advertised speed as a guarantee unless you pay a high 3 figured sum per month with an actual service level agreement

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

1, Good for you mate :tu: You can continue to pay for my nice comfortable lifestyle :p:
2, Your right im not very bright, but heyho I dont go crying about being traffic shapped, it takes an intelligent person to do that.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

is there anything actually worth watching on Joost

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Nah, its all rubbish, wouldnt want to spend my spare time watching that, I can save bandwith and watch Living :o:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Pity there isn't an age limit for forums. I'm sick of all these kids with their childish posts!!! and this is the second one within days!!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Ever heard of .. 4oD, sky anytime ???. To name just two. It's normal nowadays for people to have copyrighted films and tv series via the net! Completely legal too !!

---------- Post added at 21:55 ---------- Previous post was at 21:53 ----------

I won't even mention the hundreds of iPod clip sites..... oh wait, I just did

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Precisely...:tu:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

but how many people want to sit in front of their pc's watching a tv programme why not just use VM's VOD service

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Because some of us prefer Sky, isn't it a case of personal choice ?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

yes it is but I am just suprised when people say they watch tv on their pc's

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

We watch TV episodes on the 15" w/s lappy. If it is placed nearer to the sofa than the 32"TV then the effective screen size is exactly the same. Often the mpeg compression artifacting on a downloaded file compares very well with what you sometimes see through a VM STB.

The other option of course is to connect your PC to the nice large LCD panel you may have as a TV these days. Convergence, unlike garlic bread, is definately the future:)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Why not, I have a nice widescreen monitor, I watch my stuff on the pc, wife watches hers on tv in the living room.... no problem, just like VM customers having more than one box!

It worked well, until now....:)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I must be one of the lucky one's in that the OH & me have the same taste's in TV programs & only use our 2nd box for watching TV in bed

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

It's all very well to say "yeah well shaping is the future so get used to it" but if you don't object at least to the rather back door way it's been introduced (and the fact that VM haven't even briefed their staff on it) then the next time they have a bright idea to wang more folks onto the same kit without investing in upgrades to cope with the extra traffic and/or higher speeds, like, ooh, I don't know, download limits, then they'll just go right ahead and do it. Why? Because they'll think "well no one objected last time we introduced restrictions".

I'm not saying they'll do it or that I'm totally against shaping, but it's the sneaky way it's been done and the unfairly low downloads thresholds that seem iniquitous to me. Plus I spent 2 hours on the phone last night trying to get a definitive explanation of what was going to happen but since theye didn't bother to brief their staff it took ages until I got hold of a helpful chap at their UK tech support who found out for me. That's just sloppy all round. Where's this supposedly legendary customer service we're all supposed to be getting?

At the very least, bring on a campaign to get VM to reconsider the limits and maybe apologise for not stating all this clearly in the first place. I can't just jump ship because my contract has a long time to run and I deliberately don't have a landline as I felt no need for one with having the cable BB.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

im going to download more than 3gb in those hours, what i download is none of your business, i went for an "unlimited" connection because of this....nobody buys a 20mbit unmetered connection just to "check their emails"...nonsense...how about they offer a service their network can handle (and is is possible, just see sewden/norway/denmark/japan/korea/usa) and stop compensating for their mediocre broadband technology with cutting the customers service...sure...have you all seen the advert with Uma Therman...as things go its not biggest thing...but its a thing worth knowing if you have unlimited broadband from virgin media you can download me once...twice..three times...infact you can download me...as many times as you like!! (apart from peek times when you can download me half as many times and you can off-peak while paying the same amount). makes them no better than ADSL providers...keep going like this then you will lose the battle with Sky.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

ok guys lets all get back to what i initially wated to do lol,

i am thinkink since Virgin part of ISPA (http://www.ispa.org.uk) we can make a formal compaline to them, well all should do this.

this will be step to let virgin know that they can just snek in a download limit without telling us and then still call thier service unlimited.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Well, technically they did tell us, they just didn't inform us. If you see what I mean. ;)

All us cable forum guys know where we are, but those so commonly described as techniphobes don't. Simply because they think they're getting what they pay for. 'nd that's it. They pay 37 gbp for 10mb cable broadband, they get 10mb/s broadband. Or, that's how it should be. But, 'fraid not, it seems.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

i think you will find that any court in the land will disagree with your assertion, and that in fact, the consumer contract does cover the person and is infact 'only for you' within the confines of the two partys contract.

rather than the usual 'if you dont like it leave' sheepish response in the hope that if these people leave VM will magicly resolve the under financed network and understaffed/over worked workforce.., why not just nip down your local county court and fill in a county court paper and every customer might be better off in the long term if things cant be resolved any other way.

---------- Post added at 04:04 ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 ----------

sure ,Alliance Atlantis Sci-Fi is good but theres lots to chose
http://www.joost.com/whatson/channels.html
and when it goes live its got a lot of studio names signed up to it as well.

dont go trying it at home/prime time though or you will get throttled for sure...

thats were the VM and the other UK ISP's throttling their users will come unstuck if their not careful, the end users might be sheepish with bringing court action.

but you can bet joost and their backers, not to mention the other commercial entitys comeing on line soon will be quite ready to test the throttling in UK court if its seen as effecting their mass market UK user base and profits later, perhaps people are already pointing this throttling out to joost etc and we might see the courts filling up or some workable compromise reached.

---------- Post added at 04:21 ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 ----------

simple logic would state because what they want to see is NOT on VM VOD and perhaps never will be.

you dont have to sit infront of your PC OC, as theres TV out connections on most video cards today.

stuff a cable into your TV from it and press play at its most basic, all the way up to stand alone STB's that can take any content no matter were its from CD/DVD/DVB-T/DVB-S/LAN/HD/wireless NET etc and display your content on the TV its pluged into.

buy 2 see two seperate bits of content, thats were VM are SO limited and antiquated, they could have included that IP streaming capability in every single STB, but they didnt so go buy a 3rd party STB and be happy they even have harddrives included so you can store your content directly on them if you like and turn off your PC.

soon i imagine there will be joost and other apps included as standard inside these 3rd party STB's and away the IPTV goes for real.

you can be sure any campaign will be taken to new hights if its not resolved by then.

---------- Post added at 04:34 ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 ----------

yeah but thats just so old school with the cups of horlicks, the parrafin lamp on the dresser and potty under the bed, time to get with it and upto date ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

well I'm not old (yet) ;) I'm looked at the stuff that is available on the pc streaming wise and to be honest nothing appeals - I'd rather just download the stuff I do like pop it onto my external media drive and then punt it out on my 42" plasma tv - plus the fact I'd have to set up some sort of wireless network to get stuff on my TV direct from my pc or start running long wires round the house - no thanks - I'll stick to my nice simple way thank you very much

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I have now posted a complaint online to http://www.ispa.org.uk/ and last night I posted an online complaint to the advertising standards agency re the VM website that is 'economical with the truth' on the issue of traffic shaping. No matter what people say, effectively ALL users are having their service reduced by half for 8 hours per day - these are peak hours not midnight till 8am. This means that the majority of folks who get home after work, probably 6pm onwards and even those coming from school/college will be hit. By the time the speeds are reset its bedtime. Mine has been hit for the last two nights. Pathetic.

Lets put this another way, 40 hours each week we will suffer half speed. 160 hours each month (assuming that the weekends are not affected). A full year by my calculations equates to 1920 hours of reduced bandwidth. Thats 80 DAYS PER YEAR!! Think about it. Seems to me that VM are paying for their 20 mb speed increase by cutting back elsewhere. Bit like the chancellor with taxation - give some - take loads! If we all complain now we can get this sorted. Chances are that VM are testing the waters to see what we will accept. Accept nowt I say :mad:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

it's not all users, only the users that go over the limit - I for one am very unlikely to go over that limit & to be honest I don't think your complaints will get far

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I've made a complaint to Watchdog as well... They'll probably love this one...

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Here's a suggestion to get the campaign going, how about, if users who aren't happy make a complaint to the ASA, the Ads on TV are clearly stating at the end "Broadband Without Limits"

Traffic shaping is a limit, it's not cutting the amount we can download, but it is limiting the speed at which users can download, to 50% of what we pay for. Whether the limit is in effect for 4 hours a day or 24 doesn't matter, whether it's for the "top 5% of users" or not.

They can call it a "Traffic Management Policy" as much as they like, it is a limit.

I think it's time the big companies like VM should realise they can't throttle our usage to make space for a newer 20Mb line, and still expect to take the same money from us. I have been with Cabletel/NTL for years, but since they changed to Virgin, they've gone down the drain, and badly. People are leaving in droves, here's a link to a newspaper article from today:

http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...cle2527757.ece

Anyway, if any users would like to make a complaint to the Advertising Standards Agency, this is the link:


http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_complain/

And, to the ones who will criticise, I'm by no means in the "Top 5%" I just think that in the world of the web with legal high size media files that are available, the limits imposed are ridiculous!

We should all have the right to the service we paid for and I think it is wrong for any company to impose new restrictions after the fact, just to introduce a new marketing ploy with faster speeds. After all, they aren't dropping prices are they ?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

That campaign might get them to change the ads but thats it I thought the campaign was to change the shaping policy not the wording of adverts

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Watchdog is off air till the autumn :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Given a choice would you prefer a traffic shaped network or not? at the moment it is extremely easy to break their limit, using my connection for approx. 30 mins gets my speed cut in half. Simply saying it's unlikely to affect me so i don't really care is a bit weak, what about when it does affect you? say all of a sudden you find a reason to use your "high speed" connection and find that you are only getting half what you are paying for when you want to use it.

in my opinion, the 2/4mb limits are too low, i think at the least all levels should have the 3gb limit although i'd prefer no shaping at all. it seems to be a means to an end in pushing out the 20mb service and anyone using a 20mb connection that doesn't download more than 3gb on atleast a semi regular basis could do just aswell with one of the lower tiers. if it wasn't for people like the OP we'd probably all still be on dial-up paying by the minute :Yikes:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

If's it only 5% of users that clogg up the network then WHY Cap the whole Network.

am I missing something or should VM be targeting the 5%?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I posted conclusive indicators on this forum last night (three separate speed tests and my DU Meter (as recommended by VM) readings for yesterday) that prove their assertion that their traffic management being determined by usage limits is a nonsense and nothing more than a crass method of simply reducing bandwidth usage in the hope that customers don't notice.

Please afford me a little time and I'll make available a template letter for customers to issue to VM which will cause a few "headaches".

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Least you can organise a drinking session in a brewery ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

the ability to understand the english language seems to be a problem for a few people on here so ill try my best...

the traffic shaping will ONLY affect the top 5% of people, it will not affect everyone. however EVERYBODY is subject to it but you will only be affected by it if you reach that top 5%

is that simple enough for everyone

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

If it only affected 1% would that be ok?
Peoples " unlimited " service is being " restricted "

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

is it, please provide evidence that shows an unlimited download connection is being restricted in the amount you can download

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

It is being restricted, whether it be in the amount or the time taken is irrelevant, it is restricted.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

as for people saying traffic shaping is NOT a limit, first lets look at the dictionary definitions

un·lim·itÃƒÆ ’‚·ed

not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.

lim·it·ed

confined within limits; restricted or circumscribed: a limited space; limited resources.

i'll use fake numbers because i can't be bothered to work them out but lets say hypothetically that on a 10mb connection you can download

100gb per day

and everyone lives for 100 years

on an unshaped network you get 3,650,000gb

on a shaped network you get shaped for 8 hours per day which = 82.5 gb per day

or 3,011,250 gb

while neither is technically "unlimited" one is getting less than the other while being described as having no limits. ( and i need a hobby ) lol

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

you havent answered my question, i think english may be a problem here as well so lets try french...

veuillez fournir l'évidence où la quantité que vous pouvez télécharger est restreinte

---------- Post added at 12:01 ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 ----------

i still cannot see any evidence as to wheree you are restricted in how much you can download, the only evidence you have provided is restricting the SPEED at which you can download which is not what I asked for evidence for