Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

More at:
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...86&newsLang=en

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Thanks for info. :) :tu:

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Yeehah!

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

100 Meg by Christmas. :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

LOL we can only hope

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

More upgrades? First Nortel, now Juniper.

Perhaps there is hope for the Virgin network after all :)

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

With the arrival of IPTV virgin media have to up the speeds to compete with the telco's .
mike 24

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Link fails to display news:
The content you request is no longer available.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Nice to hear that Virgin Media is dealing with some forms of upgrades. I just hope they take this further.

If it helps and you are still interested, here is the cached link which still has the content :)

Hope this helps

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Great apart from that the core has never been the major issue. Until the access HFC network is fixed customer experience will not improve.

The core did need replacing though, bless it, it was a few years old and you had a supercore that was pretty venerable and older than the routers connecting to it :)

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

there's optomism and then there's fantasism

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

He/she didn't say which year (or century)..... :D

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

he didnt say from VM eather , just thought id mention that :angel:

still, a good wireless MESH between your local mates LAN ports and their combined WANs would give you something like 100Mbit today....

funny though, before (and since)that OP news got posted, i was looking for info to see if i could work out were it would be deployed, i assumed the BY part, as that seems to be mostly 1GigE according to the map.

and i assumed the other parts ex-C&W/NTL and TW use something a little better on the whole?, but i cant seem to find anything that would give clues as to what that might be, or even were this new kit is being deployed today?..... very odd.

still, a few cheap off the shelf wireless GigE WiMax would see them through the short term, and give them something to easly re-deploy later if they wired the main routes up later to go faster

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

GigE? You're having a laugh ;)

The core was 10Gbit/s and will be going to 40Gbit I imagine.

Try getting that down WiMax :p:

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

well, i did said the BY bit, and im using nothing but public available info, (funny the NTL and TW maps even though they didnt give the links speeds have gone missing?), i would be the first to say its faster if i could find the info... show me.

but if you call 2x10Mbit connections from telehouse ,one to knowsley, and one to bradford 'THE Core'.... so be it.

ill hold my hands up and say i was perhaps wrong on the mostly 1Gigabit, they are infact mostly POS STM-16 at 2.5Gigabit, still 4 times slower than your 10Mbit claim?.

i was perhaps confusing the most connections, as 'the core' network, were the most connections are to the private peers, and they are infact 1Gigabit, do we count them as THE Core?, if so then yes, it seems currently the BY bit is mainly 1Gigabit but ill conceed that the current core is 2.5Gigabit, with 1Gigabit (doesnt say how many,one each?)to Europe and the US.

im suprised they (do any of VM ?) dont have at least one connection to the multicast enabled surfnet 'The open optical Internet exchange in Amsterdam' being a world backbone nominated ISP....
http://www.netherlight.net/info/about/introduction.jsp
http://www.netherlight.net/info/about/technical.jsp

blueyonder map:
http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/assets/i...chitecture.jpg

are you changing the rules?, i did say use Off The Shelf 1GigE wireless and that they can re-deploy it later, so not even a lost outlay, it will be useful somewere....

but OK , fair enough, Currently, there doesnt seem to exist any single wireless 40 GigE as a commercial option.

remember readers, we are not currently talking the last mile to end users here , but the other seperate bit thats part of the core/backhaul... (the one were it costs virtually nothing to give you highest bandwidth user to user while inside, but they still insist on adding that internal bandwidth use to your total throttling amount).

wireless 10GigE will exist retail soon enough however, and the kit does exist to Bond several wireless 1GigE/2.5GigE together..... today.

sure, its not using the latest IP centric mobile WiMax, Wave 2 and IO-MIMO tech, but when it does there will be a large increase in its output/throughput.

http://engineers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=72
"Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: Wireless backhaul growth: Status of the industryhttp://engineers.com/forum/templates...icon_quote.gif Thought you forum readers might find my latest newsletter interesting ...

Dear Wireless Colleague,

Backhaul becoming sexy? The mobile backhaul market continues to grow. In 2006, worldwide cellular backhaul equipment sales totaled $3.5 to $3.9 billion (depending which analyst you believe) and is forecast to grow to over $6.0 billion in 2010. Microwave radios made up 80% of these equipment sales, suggesting significant future growth. However, advances in wireline technology are likely to erode this market share, with new technologies having much lower installed cost than wireless. Nevertheless, carriers forecast that their overall backhaul spending, already often their biggest expense item, will rise significantly from its present 15-20% level. Good news for backhaul equipment supplier!

Migration to IP and higher data rates The market is shifting from TDM circuit to IP packet switching, caused by the exploding bandwidth requirements of multi-media data traffic and the cost effectiveness of Ethernet connectivity. This can be seen on the supply side, with equipment vendors increasing revenue and changing product mix. Ceragon, for example, long bullish on high data rates and data-centric opportunities, saw Q1 07 revenue jump almost 60% over the previous year. Also the number of microwave vendors offering GigE interfaces (yes, GigE – not fast Ethernet) is exploding, with Harris Stratex, Ceragon, Dragonwave, NEC and others exhibiting GigE products at the recent CTIA show.

GigE! Really? All carriers appear to have GigE connections, existing or planned, in their networks. Two Tier 1 carriers have publicly announced they will be using wireless for varying degrees of this connectivity. In the enterprise, GigE connections are already the norm. In 2006, almost 56 million GigE ports were shipped showing the potential for GigE wireless beyond the carriers. And nobody’s even factored in the real backhaul needs for WiMAX, which remains totally underestimated by the access-focused WiMAX community!

Millimeter-wave wireless The millimeter-wave bands continue to receive attention as a partial solution for all this. 2006 shipments of 70/80 GHz GigE equipment increased four-fold over 2005, with a total of $6.6 million product shipped. Despite this being lower than anticipated for such a promising technology (mmm, remember Geoffrey Moore’s Chasm?), revamped business models and new value-added competitors make this area exciting for 2007. There are already nine vendors shipping or with announced products, 25 FCC-approved nationwide licensees, and backing from some of the industry’s heavyweights.

Want to make sense of this? AJIS can help you negotiate your way through this current wireless marketplace. Startup or behemoth, we can apply your wireless technology to real world business. Email or call us to find out more.
_________________
Jonathan Wells
Principal, AJIS LLC "
-----------------------------------------------
as a side note that does cover the last mile as well as infrastructure,
some reading for those interested
http://www.embedded.com/showArticle....leID=199901089
"WiMAX is one of the most-anticipated telecom technologies of all time.

However, that's not the same as saying it's over-hyped. In fact, dozens of service providers worldwide have deployed fixed WiMAX (IEEE 802.16d) networks, and dozens more are committed to launching mobile WiMAX (IEEE 802.16e) services over the next two years.

There are crucial deployments in the U.S. this year by Sprint Nextel and Clearwire, on the heels of commercial launches last year by KT and SKT in Korea. There is also an imminent allocation of WiMAX spectrum in Japan, most likely to KDDI and NTT DoCoMo and also in the UK where BT is showing strong interest. These represent a remarkable shift in availability of spectrum for Mobile WiMAX and a clear roadmap to a global footprint of WiMAX networks.


By 2009, service providers worldwide will spend $7.3 billion on WiMAX infrastructure, up from $655 million in mid-2006, See Trendsmedia Rethink Research. The firm also forecasts that based on operators' plans, the WiMAX share of spending on broadband wireless will grow from 22.5% to 63% over the same period.

This outlook highlights reasons why WiMAX is an opportunity that few infrastructure and device vendors can afford to ignore. However, not all WiMAX technologies are created equal. In fact, understanding the differences between the fixed and mobile versions, as well as the WiBro variant, is key to how the market will evolve over the next several years. Examples include:

• Although 802.16e is designed for use in a mobile environment, the technology can also be used to support fixed applications, such as broadband access to homes and offices, cell site backhaul and machine-to-machine communication. As a result, service providers and vendors can use 802.16e to target a wider variety of applications and markets than with any other technology, a key difference over 3G which is not suitable for broadband access and Fixed WiMAX (802.16d), which can not support mobility. ......"

http://networks.silicon.com/telecoms...22,00.htm?r=90
"Cheat Sheet: Wireless mesh networking
Haven't people been banging on about mesh for years?
Yes but according to those who monitor such things, mesh networking may be reaching maturity in the not too distant future. Analysts ABI Research, for example, recently predicted that cable multi-service operators may start launching commercial trials in 12 to 18 months' time in the US......"

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/May2007/4722.htm
"
"The ability to upgrade our WiMAX basestations by software is fundamental to our strategic market advantage," said Paul Senior, VP Marketing of Airspan Networks and WiMAX Forum Board member.

"picoChip's programmable PHY has been demonstrated to support IOT between systems running WiMAX Forum CertifiedTM 16d, 16e SISO, and 16e Wave 2 MIMO, all from a common hardware platform.

This capability allows our customers to deploy WiMAX services today, confident in their ability to migrate to the latest features and performance enhancements as WiMAX evolves."

The PC8532 supports Wave 2 and IO-MIMO in both uplink and downlink. Wave 2 is the latest version of the WiMAX standard, adding increased support for mobility, while MIMO (Multi Input Multi Output) increases data-rate and reliability by simultaneously sending and receiving data by multiple antennas. The 2x2 MIMO system used in WiMAX significantly reduces CAPEX and OPEX for carriers, by increasing coverage and data-rate compared to other wireless technologies or to non-MIMO WiMAX. As a result, Wave 2 delivers maximum download and upload transmission speeds of 40Mbps and 12Mbps respectively. ...."

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Lol! Do you really believe that a company the size of VM would peer at Telehouse with 2 x 10Mb links!!

VM has at least three peering points that I know of, One in Amsterdam, One in Manchester and 2 at Telehouse All running WAY higher than 10Mb -Nearer 10Gb

Their Access core which is strategically located in 16 sites around the country are Cisco 7609's and a few Juniper M320's with multiple 10Gbe aggregating onto a 40Gb/e Juniper T640 Transit Core.

I don't work for em, I used to contract for em but now work for the competition. But I am envious of their network...!!

This is pretty much as good as it gets! (WRT IP Cores in Europe at least!)

Rest well VM customers, I think your bandwidth requirements are more than adequatly covered for the next few years. :)

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Back in 2001 when we were wiring up ex-C&W for broadband, it was 2x1Gb to each *site*, let alone when you got to the backbone. Bigger sites had more 1Gb feeds - there was a set ratio per number of UBRs.

Backbone is 10Gb and IIRC 40Gb in places, on Juniper kit. Big iron, big bandwidth. ntl did build their backbone to last.

21CN? Isn't that, um, 'borrowed' from our design, I heard?

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

That map is a bit out of date.

Believe BY migrated to mostly 10Gbit when they installed their GSR based network.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

Combination of Juniper and Cisco equipment, and a 'generic' design.

Decent networks of any size follow a pretty similar pattern, ISIS IGP, iBGP running on top, two rings with interconnects between the rings at each superPOP.

Industry standard best practise don't ya know ;)

It's a decent enough IP network though. Does it's job pretty well :)

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Are there topology diagrams of all this stuff out there somewhere?

Academic curiosity, y'know...

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

happy days :D

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

So if they upgrade the main network does that mean they will have to upgrade ubr's

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

It is a (un-) well kept secret that VM are currently looking at their HFC plant and UBR's to see if it can support the DOCSIS upgrades required for 50-100mb to the home. IMO It's only a matter of time before they role out new CMTS's in areas that can cope.

As soon as they can suport DOCSIS 2/3+ then we will be loking at real progress in the home with possible IP STB's on the cards (ahem: I would imagine)


From what I can see most suppliers are years behind what they are doing at VM.

BTW: The 40Gig T640/Matrix core is already in place. It's been in a while now. Nearly 2 years?? I think it's just a case of migrating certain ex-TW areas over to it.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Is this a TLA contest, or can anyone join in?

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

I always think it's a shame that Virgin have such a good core and access to reliable equipment but somehow manage to not be able to get the front end service to match. If you look at the self-install package that sky send out out it is very professional with a video (cartoon) installation helper that leaves nothing in doubt.

If they had gone with the mpeg4 V+ service specc'd to the max (with satellite stb's that can access the main hd on the master box) then Virgin would have had a service for DTV that would be streets ahead of sky and would be retaining customers.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Are there topology diagrams of all this stuff out there somewhere?

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

No. most of the more detailed information above is sensitive and provided in confidence however the above is just the same as any major ISP with their own DWDM fibre core network. ;)

The closest you will proberbly get is the NW map...

http://www.ntltelewestbusiness.co.uk...48e&version=-1

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

It was still 2x1gig 2 years ago, no idea if they finally upgraded it now but one of those ports was regurly saturated.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Hopefully they will replace all the old Cable & Wireless equipment.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

I wonder why if their network is so good, that I now get fantastic speeds at all times of the day from my 8 meg (actual 6.5) connection with BT (DSL) to ALL sites that I need, than I ever did with my NTL 10 meg connection ??

I could get my full 10 meg from UK sites back then(so no local congestion) but peering with the US or Amsterdam was atrocious, why was that so when the network is so good ??

As far as I'm concerned BT wipes the floor with NTL even though the speeds are (supposedly) slower and the network worse..

I don't understand all the technical guff, all I know is that when I was with NTL I had to suffer awful speeds to most non UK sites, and now I'm with BT I get full speed all the time everywhere I go.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Agree with IanUK and welcome back havent seen you for a while.

With NTL my experience was heavy congestion, some packet loss, horrible browsing due to proxies yet a very good local connection to ubr ie. it never dropped and was 10meg.

With adsl its almost the opposite, rarely congestion if any, stable pings, fast browsing but the line is unstable in that it loses synch and occasionally has too many errors causing packet loss.

If only we had the cable local loop infrastructure with BTs core network now that would be nice.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

I must be one of the lucky people then, my connection has been absolutely superb for all the time ive been with NTL/VM.

Pings excellent, and always full speeds, even now im on the 20MB.

Gotta love this 2.33MB/s leeching ;)

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

i don't think ntl/vm's network quite spans into US or Amsterdam ;)
It'd be interesting to see the amount of bandwidth VM go through compared to BT, even though BT have the users VM may have the higher average connected speed

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

But with the lowest average throughput speed...

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

If you have throughput issues on the VM network it's more likely to do with the type of cable modem you have and how many people are hanging off the UBR and the HFC metrics between you and it.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

My modem is fine, I get full speed, but most on 10 or 20Mbps never seem to...

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

hmm, If I were not getting my allocated bandwidth I would take a look into my modem and see if the modem I had been supplied supported the package I was buying.
It's well documented that certain old modems supplied by SA and Motorola will not perform at anywhere near the claimed speeds of certain american cable companies. Read some of the Cox cable forums.
You can buy cable modems off the shelf over there for this very reason. I'm not sure what VM give their customers but I bet they are not all the same, and I bet there are still quite a lot of old "legacy" modems still in peoples houses from the days when 512kb was classed as fast!

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

The problem these days is often not the modem but the UBR they are connected to being over subscribed...

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

How can you tell how many people are connected to each UBR, and what's the maximum they can support?

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

You can't, unless a VM insider tells you. But if you're consistently getting slow speeds and engineers say your modem is fine, you can only assume its oversubscribed.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

For the last 3+ years my speed has always been 100%, and no drop in speed.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

Name: amst-ic-1.inet.ntl.com
Address: 194.145.149.151

Telewest have/had peering to Amsterdam, Paris, New York and others.

You don't need to have fibre of your own everywhere, can lease a wavelength, lease some rack space at the other end and stick a router and switch in there, no problem :)

---------- Post added at 10:17 ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 ----------

Yes, so 3 of your last 4 posts and a large proportion of your recent ones say. I think people get the point and I'm sure people with speed issues feel much better reading how superb someone else's connection is.

It goes without saying a large proportion of the customer base is fairly happy.

Re: Virgin upgrading IP backbone network
 

lol, i know its been a long time since this thread went quiet but i had reason to indirectly link to it today
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10...l#post34476302
and only just noticed my bad typing ,SORRY about that ,were ever you see Mb/Mbit, i did indeed mean Gb/Gigabit, at least i think i did,its been a long time now, and i cant remember the maps urls i based the posts on, but TBO i cant be 100% sure now, as incompletes post said 'That map is a bit out of date.' so perhaps it did say Mbit?

are there new maps to see now with the current kit/speeds as a general guide, not to give to much away as it were but good for PR and such as long as its accurate?.

still, not to worry,it may get some interesting posts if theres any interested tech readers here now.....
its all good if it enlightens and entertains the readers after all...
carry on with any interesting points you may have for today and the future.