Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

So, now that the F1 season is under way again, let's have a thread to discuss the teams, the drivers, the cars, the races, etc.

Starting with the opening race... what a result for Lewis Hamilton. An unbelievable drive, and if it wasn't for the second pit stop, I think he could have pipped Alonso to 2nd place. Saying that, Alonso drove exceptionally well as well - as always. McLaren really do look like the team to watch this season.

Massa did well too, I thought. To come right from the back of the grid to finish 6th is no mean feat.

Hopefully Anthony Davidson will show his true potential as the season progresses - I'm not sure we really saw what he's capable of during today's race.

I wasn't paying too much attention to DC's crash - was it his fault, or did Wurz cut him up?

Roll on Malaysia on the 8th April. :)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

DC made a move from too far back, which Wurz would not have been able to see, wurz took the line ........

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Another great race today - I do like the Sepang circuit.

Good result for McLaren and another brilliant performance by Hamilton. I think he's got what it takes to eventually be world champion.

Massa, on the other hand, was naff. The mistakes he made trying to take 2nd place were bad enough, but then he didn't even manage to regain 3rd. Ferrari are really gonna struggle this season, imo. Luckily Raikkonen is performing well, but having only 1 decent driver isn't going to help them.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I have to agree that Hamilton has looked awfully impressive, it looks like McLaren have a very competitive car & driver package.

I thought Heidfeld did well, also. That and a good performance by Rosberg/Williams will hopefully mean it won't always be a one or two car race, this season...

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Yes, Heidfeld did have a good race as well.

What are your thoughts on the new tyre regulations? I think it's a bad idea making a driver use both sets during a race. There are times when this isn't necessary - like today - and it ruins the race, imo.

I like the idea of only having one supplier, however, as it makes the playing field a bit more even. I never liked it when a better driver or car was impeded simply because their tyres weren't as performant as the other manufacturer's.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

don't get me started on tyres ;)

in my opinion they should use one make of slick tyres, the soft_hard 'white groove' thing doesn't make any sense, to me :)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

F1 now on telly.... nice weather, food cooking, beers are already chilled - this is a perfect Sunday, let's just hope that Lewis can perform as well as he's done so far this season :cool:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

race about to start

will Lewis win his first race?

---------- Post added at 12:37 ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 ----------

Jensons out first lap

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------

Hamilton makes F1 history by finishing on the podeum on his first three races.

He's also joint first in the drivers championship

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Cannot believe this thread is so small, with a rookie British driver leading the championship. Todays race was certainly the most exciting to date. The horrific crash of Kubica from which he emerged with only a broken leg was truly amazing, the sheer strength of these cars is beyond belief.

Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

It usually is an incident packed race at Montreal & today was no exception - in some ways for the wrong reasons, the walls, the bumps & the dodgy surface aren't really 'on', but it does make for more interesting racing :)

I was in total awe of the fact Kubica survived that crash, a real tribute to the people who have campaigned over the years for the car construction standards to be so safety conscious - wonder what the equivalent ncap rating is for head on into a wall at 180mph?

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Hi Gaz, I'm just glad that they don't make domestic applainces to such rigorous specs, I would be out of a job in no time.;)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Hey Jim :wavey:

- hmm, if they made a carbon fibre drum on a direct drive motor, would you need such a large damping weight? - can you imagine it though, "sorry madam your drum speed management chip has blown" - you would just need re-training ;) :D

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/6739469.stmI'm surprised Nugget hasn't passed comment already!

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Hey, sometimes the joke just tells itself :D

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Sadly Gaz, that already happens, certain manufacturers use electronic controls that fit various models, the information for each individual model is stored on an eeprom on the main PCB. The company engineers have laptop enabled software to allow them to reprogram corrupted eeproms or write new instructions to the old eeprom or to new blank ones. Unfortunately this software is not available to the independent trade, this means that if we suspect a main module fault we have to replace the £80.00 module together with a £20.00 pre programmed eeprom.

One manufacturer in particular does this, their machines sell for as little as £199.00, it is little wonder that you see a lot of I******t machines on the scrap heap less than two years old.:(

Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Perhaps not quite as exciting as last weeks race, Lewis Hamilton still had to hold off Alonso on a couple of occasions. What I do find incredible is that he has won consecutive races on tracks that he has only previously seen before on the Maclaren race simulator, that must be an awesome piece of kit.

Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I wouldn't mind a go at that, either ;)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

well done to Vettell too who got points on his debut another one of the younger drivers who looks like they should be in F1 next year.. also Kovalienen is starting to improve too after a nightmare first few races

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

When the Ferrari team were on the radio to Kimi at the end does any one know what they meant when they told him to remember to pick up rubber?

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Yes, during the race the tyres wear, resulting in rubber 'crumbs' gathering off the racing line. Now the car + driver must not be below a minimum weight, which may be checked at the end of the race.

One strategy is to deliberately drive through the rubber debris on the return to the pits after the race, as the tyres are still hot & sticky, they will pick up an amount of the waste rubber, making the car a little heavier, in case it gets weighed.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Shucks, and I thought it was a message from his lady friend.:D

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Raikkonen hasn't got any mates ;)

- although I may be ribbing you, I hope you aren't extra sensitive :D

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Come to think of it, they did actually sponsor an F1 car a few years back didn't they?
Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

yes, it was Surtees, IIRC the Beeb pulled some pre-race coverage because of it

quick google


from http://www.gpracing.net192.com/teams/56.cfm

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

1975, nooooooooo, it can't have been that long ago.:Yikes:

I think i will have to get the Horlicks out, or maybe the Complan.:D

Jim.

Would rep you for the above research but I need to spread it around Gaz.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

don't you just love 'topic drift' :D

I'm looking forward to Silverstone more than ever, now, they have to set the ride height just a little higher, there, than at Magny-Cours, because it is much more bumpy.

That may upset some of the aerodynamic modifications that seem to have worked well on the smooth surface of Magny-Cours....

My 'man of the match' today was Kubica - to get 4th after that crash just a short time ago was stunning :tu:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Agree 100% Gaz, Kubica and his car performed very well. Silverstone could be very interesting, especially if the glorious Summer of 2007 continues,:rolleyes:

Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Amazing. Click on the 'New kid on the grid' link. :cool:

http://tinyurl.com/32dh25

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Just to update this, original link has been altered.

http://tinyurl.com/2s3pvh

Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

i wonder sometimes how much of this is a child wanting to do this and how much they are forced into doing it by their parents.

At that age he won;t have any concept of the dangers of crashing and injuring himself it will just seem too much like the playstation games at home

Hamilton takes pole for British GP
 

Looks like tomorrows race is gonna be a good one

LINK

Re: Hamilton takes pole for British GP
 

I wish I knew what the relative fuel loads were, for the final pole position session.

But yes, the stage is set for what could be a fascinating tussle, Raikkonen looked to be very angry after his mistake probably cost him the pole, but I have to say I admire Hamilton's ability to get the job done, despite the huge pressure he has been under since getting back from France.

I hope David Coulthard can get in the points, too :tu:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Phew, Lewis Hamilton's crash wasn't too serious as he's been cleared to race.

There's some good footage of it here (although the commentry is in German). You can clearly see the part where part of the wheel came loose and then seconds later - bang! - into the wall.

edit - ITV footage of it here, shorter but it is in Engrish.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

See the FIA are not going to punish McLaren, although they have said the reserve the right to 'invite' them back should the find evidance in the furture which shows they gained an 'unfair' advantage from the Ferrari documents

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

This whole thing smells of a setup.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/7/6542.html

Remember at the beginning of the season when Mclaren exposed the moving floor that Ferrari were using and after the FIA investigated it was found to be illegal, so who are Ferrari to talk about fairness in F1, look back at the other things they have done.

There is a section in this link it was one of Ferrari's own men that told Maclaren about the moving floor.
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...612679,00.html

It was also at the end of last season that the main man at Ferrari told his team they had to win the championship this year, maybe they are trying to do this by what is happening, stranger things have happened.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Oh dear! Looks like Alonso will have a flea in his ear soon, after the qualifying debacle. Hamilton's body language said it all, in the press conference. :erm:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/6929333.stm

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

It certainly had Ron Dennis acting more upset than I've ever seen him, in public, the only consolation being that if Alonso thinks he has to resort to gamesmanship to beat Hamilton, then it is a psychological victory for Lewis, even if it doesn't translate into points on the track.

If I were Ron Dennis I wouldn't be planning to renew Alonso's contract next season, I don't care how good a driver he is, cheats shouldn't be allowed to prosper - something Ferrari should have done with Shumacher, too....

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Such blatant cheating deserves some sort of disciplinary measure, Ron Dennis looked apoplectic with rage. If it was up to me I'd make Alonso sit out the race, I wonder if the FIA will take any action.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

It wasnt 'cheating' however it was unsporting behaviour,
lewis was faster in all head to heads so should walk all over alonso tomorrow. If alonso was concerned before that mac will be backing lewis rather than him, well they will now.

As for massa's fun i was laughing so much, especially when we got the shot of todt almost crying it couldnt of happend to a nicer bunch of cheats.
It looks to me as if they forgot to refuel him as they did put a splash of fuel in the car when they'd pulled him back.

---------- Post added at 17:56 ---------- Previous post was at 15:59 ----------

It seems the stewards are now investigating the matter http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61353
and they want to hear what was said over the radio.
If alonso was told how long he had to complete his outlap or given the order to go / hurry up he's in trouble. From Ronso throwing his headset into his wall of monitors would suggest that alonso didnt do as he was told

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Alonso is a cheating (insert expletive here)

He should be dumped to 10th place.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I did read somewhere else that Ron Dennis should decide Alonso needs an engine change, which would do just that ;)

Unfortunately he has to think of the team position & I doubt he would want to risk losing constructor points over a personnel problem?

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Did you see Ron Dennis frog marching Alonso's trainer down the pit lane, its a good job there were people about, it looked as though he was going to throttle him there and then.

Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

yes ;) Including the firm way he removed the guy's headphones :erm:

It will be interesting to see what the enquiry comes up with??

- Shame, in a way, because the problems Massa had were, perhaps, more serious, but have been overshadowed by this incident :shrug:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Apparently it was all hammiltons fault for not letting alonso through at the start of Q3, which seems a trifle odd as hammy was in clear air out on his own yet alonso had kimi up his chuff.
They say alonso was supposed to go one lap longer first off which tbh he could of done irrespective of road position its not as if hammy was slowing him down.
The getting of alonso's trainer was to apparently calm alonso down whilst ronso was going to calm hammy down.

As for the engine change idea, no can do. After qualy has started parc ferme is in effect. any engine changes means relegation to p22 not a 10 place drop.

I wonder if fisi is going to get handed a penalty for blocking yammo'
If i were the stewards i would delete the time associated with just after there incidents to remove any 'unfair' advantage they gained

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

thanks, the fisichella 'blocking' incident was another which was under reported due to the apparent in-fighting at McLaren - the engine change was always a 'tongue in cheek' suggestion, as I'm sure you know ;)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Alonso dropped five places, & McLaren NOT allowed to score championship points

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/6929333.stm

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Difficult one, without knowing all the facts I'm surprised the team are being penalised for Alonso's intransigence, Ron Dennis' reaction this afternoon suggested he was not expecting it, so why deny the constructor points????

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

the 5 place penalty is for alonso impeding hamilton, the constructors points "ban" is for the reaction of mclaren to the incident so they are being penalised for the teams reaction, not what alonso did.

mclaren are apparently appealing the constructors points "ban".

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

the result of all this is immaterial, in some ways, the 'gloves are now off' between Alonso & Hamilton - let battle commence ;)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

The results are all immaterial anyway, the only reason McLaren have been handed the constructors point ban is because Masa is starting well down the grid, the lack of constructors points for McLaren will equal things up a bit..

It's all to do with the normal scheme of things in that Ferrari have the FIA/Bernie wrapped around their little finger, they(Ferarri) get penalised or have mechanical failure and suddenly there a reason to penalise McLaren(or any other team that stands to gain from their misfortune).

Formula 1 is becoming a managed show, with a semi-managed outcome.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

yep it does seem AGAIN that the FIA are doing all they can to help Ferrari.

They didn't punish McLaren for the spy row so they are doing this to make up for it.

I've nver heard of a team being banned from scoring constructors points.

FA got all worked up as LH was meant to let him pass earlier in the session and he didn't so FA did that to get back at him

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

the hell you 2 on about? if the FIA are helping ferrari they'd have penalised mclaren for the spy thing, and sent alonso back more than 5 places. putting alonso 5th is still 9 ahead of massa and only 2 behind kimi.

the mclaren constructors points ban would have probably been for things we didnt see/hear, eg radio contact etc

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Full decision is here...

(Courtesy of Autosport)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

well we all know how closely the FIA and Ferrari are and that Mosley hates Dennis so after the world council let McLaren off and they wanted to jump on any little mistake they made.

Who else has every heard of a team racing without getting constructors points and even knew this was a punishment they could give out ?

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Its not called Ferrari International Assistance for nothing (thats a joke name for the fia) but yesterdays events were all mclaren they made a boo boo and got punished for it. Fisi also got a 5 place drop for his actions.

It's amusing that only one car in the top 10 is starting where it qualified, oh and alonso is 6th not 5th

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Go Hamiltom Go 3rd win.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Link

Good to see Hamilton won't lose any points :tu:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Whoa, a fine that size will hurt any future ability to fund car development. Expect to see McLaren becoming an also ran team in the next couple of years leaving Ferrari with no challengers. F1 becomes boring again :(

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

major blow to McLaren and the F1 as a whole, After a bad years, Mclaren really have stuck it up to farrari this season but doubt they can afford to keep up progress with a fine like that, and i imagine they will loose alot of sponsorship money next season also

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Ouch! I concur with Rob, That will hit the sport. Bernie might struggle with getting his TV deals

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I dare say that Mansour Ojjeh will consider that fine small change. ;)

http://tinyurl.com/2w9nuu

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Don't DaimlerChrysler own a large part of McLaren? I wouldn't think the fine would hurt them that much.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I can't wait to hear Mclaren's appeal. From what I heard on the lunchtime news (sorry can't remember if it was BEEB or ITV). they want to drop another team in it, for doing the same thing.

The thought - F1 and Turmoil - springs to mind.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I would have thought every team does it, unless you hire people with no expertise or experience, seems like one extreme to another to me, no punishment to punitive

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Agian Ferrari get away scot free,

how can one of the ferrai team apparently give info to Mclaren and NOT get any punishment,

Well cancel F1 (thats F for Ferrari) next year and gve them the trophy now.

I won't be watching it next season, regarless of how Lewis does.

what the the 10th rate coverage on ITV.

BYE BYE F1

---------- Post added at 20:12 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

For all of you that have lost their faith in F1. the A1GP season start on the 30th September

http://www.a1gp.com/default.aspx?Asp...ookieSupport=1

HELLO A1GP

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Wasn't he an ex employee though, how could they legislate for that?

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

He still was an employee at the time wasn't he, then fired, usless I read wrong.

If Mclaren did steal secrets for them why are Ferari still carp this year.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I don't to much about F1 or this story but if you are right and he was selling secrets whilst still an employee, then it's much more serious than I thought, akin to industrial espionage, if your right then imo they got what they deserved and the employee should never work in the industry again at any level

As I said don't know to much about the sport but as all cars seem to be different, is stands to reason that various bit of different teams cars are better than their rivals, the more better bits you have the better the car, even relatively minor seeming things could make all the difference

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

The decision by the investigating body to punish Mclaren as a team, for an individual employees possession of Ferrari documents does not make sense without implying there is 'more than meets the eye'.

On face value, my opinion is that 'if' a Ferrari employee was responsible for the consignment of those documents, that they, as a team, should be punished equally as harshly as the recipient :shrug:

One very good point I saw raised was 'who' does the $100M fine actually go to, considering the FIA don't seem to be short of a few bob, already ???

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Presumably though Ferrari didn't know one of their employee's was passing information on though :shrug:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

'presumably' neither did McLaren, as a team, know an employee of theirs was receiving the alleged information ????

- sorry, not disagreeing, just puzzled why only one team was punished? :confused:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

What could Ferrari be punished for?

If Mclaren didn't knowingly benefit or make any brown envelope payments then why were the punished at all?

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

McLaren were punished because Max decided they should be. There's no logic in the decision; neither the reason behind it nor the scope of the punishment.

As his Dad once said "I am not, and never have been, a man of the right"...

Max is certainly a man of the wrong...

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Still not in any way convinced about the scale of this punishment. It does look like a sop to Ferrari who were outraged when McLaren didn't get punished last time.

There is such a thing as intent, that's the key to all this.

Okay so clearly someone* leaked the secrets to Mr Coughlan of McLaren because the 780 page document was found at his house. However was this under 'team' orders or just a rogue employee? (now lets not forget that the leaking of the document was almost certainly the work of a rogue employee)

At least some of the high up's knew that the the documents existed but its never been made clear if this was before or after Ferrari found out.

However what seems to be a given is that the only person who acted to get these documents was Mike Coughlan. He's never said that anyone else was involved in the intital contact or that it was under orders form the team. So basically McLaren may have found out that one of their guys had the documents before Ferrari announced that they'd gone missing. It appears from the quote above that Jonathan Neale knew of the documents but that may well have been it. At worst this happened a number of days before Ferrari realised where they were and started making accusations.

Also once this document was in Mike Coughlan's possetion, did he actually pass any of it on directly? Did the rest of team know that he had it? Was it a case of him coming into the office and saying “I've had an idea lads, why don't we set this componant up this poisition instead.” or was it “Well Ferrari have worked out that this componant on their car works best in this position, let's test it for ours” From the comments in the article, it appears it was certainly not the second scenario.

So at worst this was the first scenario but then it's a very heavy punishment for the team if they didn't know the knowledge was being used. Only if Jonathan Neale knew well in advance and just kept quiet and left Mike Coughlan to continue tweaking the car** would a punishement such as this seem fair. If this were the case, I'd expect this to have been all over the news but it not. Not even an accusation of this so I suspect it can be fairly dismissed.

Realistically this was down to the FIA stating at the end of the last court hearing that;

So they had no choice but to be excessively (and going on the evidence in the public domain to date, I do believe this is excessive) harsh. However I still haven't seen any proof that the information was used knowingly by McLaren. Certainly not to the "detriment of the championship". If it was then why not also punish the drivers who must have benifitted from the info (if it was used)?*** Hey while were at it, why such a Harsh punishment for a team due to the actions of a single rogue employee? Are the FIA going to say they the top guys knew weeks in advance of the document that they covered it up? I await todays FIA details with interest. As far as I am concerned unless they can prove that Mike Coughlan told the team (or at least the top people) that he had the doc and they did nothing and left him to it for a substantual time then the punishment is just plain excessive and clearly being put in place to placate other teams etc. Maybe even as a deterent to others doing the same **** that's the only crazy context that it makes sense.

My next concern is how the hell are McLaren going to be able to defend next years car? it was stated by the FIA that:

So if, as it appears to date, the rest of McLaren were unaware of the Ferrari doc until the accusation. How are they going to know what is Ferrari IP? They haven't seen the doc (and all swore in court this was the case) and if they are shown the doc then it kind of defeats the object. So they are going to have to hope that Mike Coughlan didn't use it before he was found out to direct their research down certain paths?

I am sure that McLaren will miss at least one or two races next year as Ferrari claim various enhancements are their's even if McLaren can prove the steps they took to reach that point.*****

Like I said before, I'm interesting awaiting the FIA statement later.

Scarlett.

*I say someone because Mr Stepney has only been accused and convicted yet.

** The 2007 car would already have been designed well before this dossier got to McLaren so it wont have affected this years car massivly.

*** I believe the expression used by the BBC reporter was "So they don't shoot the Golden goose." Hamilton has done more for F1 this year than Max and Bernie for the last 5.

**** Yea, Leak secrets and we'll get you, your family, the family dog, the neighbours, Bob the milkman and old Granny Welling who you occasionally collect a paper for.

***** There are basically only so many ways to solve a given problem so it's quite likely that at least some of these will have been solved in the same way by Ferrari and McLaren.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

CAn someone clarify one think for me please. How is it that the constructers lose points for using illegally obtained information (which alledgedly have given them an advantage gained in dubious manners) but the drivers still keep the points. Aren't they racing in the same cars and got those points which Maclaren can no longer use? Im a bit confused.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Yes but tv would be very unhappy if they wrecked the drivers championship, it's been the most interesting for years

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Definately, I want the points to stay, but I just dont understand the 'common sense' of it all. Did it not happen a while back with Schuey too, they lost constructor points but not his own?

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

the FIA should be making some more statements later today to clear up and clarify all of this.

I think the fine is £50 minus any money McLaren have already earned this year.

We still need to know if any Ferrari info made it into a McLaren design

or

Whether McLaren used any Ferrari operational data like fuel strategy, weight of car etc etc to their advantage.

Apparently a McLaren employee left the team for Renault and took some McLaren docs with him and designed the same cooling system on the Renault as McLaren use this year. This was going to be part of their defence.

It seems the sport has now got so complex that these design things help the team more than having a quick driver these days and maybe they need to look into the very heart of the sport.

The other year Toyota were found guilty in a German Court of Law of stealing Ferrari data and the FIA did nothing at all

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I heard that some of the info may relate to braking & tyres, Ferrari used Bridgestone the season before but McClaren were still on Michelin.

Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

The FIA did a deal with the drivers, by offering them immunity from losing their standings in return for providing them with evidence such as emails rumoured to exist between Alonso and stand-by and test driver Pedro De La Rosa.

Bu I wouldn't spend too much time trying to apply logic to this situation. There is too much secrecy in the whole 'court' process, which does fuel certain theories, but it's pretty clear that this document was not passed to McLaren until April of this year, well after the design for the 07 car was finished. Whilst there may be a few tweaks that they could have borrowed, the main question you have to ask is why? The Ferraris are not the best ones they've ever created this season, so why would you copy them?

And it would be simple for McLaren to show any changes that they made to the designs of this season's car since April, therefore proving or disproving the case against them.

The only issue of doubt of course would be next year's car, which is not built yet...so as far as I can make out this is a pre-emptive strike by the FIA, penalising a team on the possibility that they might use someone elses designs for next year. Mad.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Well the news is out now...

Certainly two of the drivers ( De la rosa and Alonso) were not only aware of the information but also of the exact source. And it had been going on for some time.

I'm still not convincened that the team should have been punished in the way it was. The drivers in question were at fault for not flagging it up and its stinky the way that having caused the whole mess, they have got off more or less scot free because they were given immunity.

I'll be interested to see if they were the only ones who used the infor or if it went higher.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

the full report is on the FIA web site if you want to read it

http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...ion_130907.pdf

The FIA only found out what was going on by getting the e-mails from the drivers which they gave up as they offered them immunity

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

It sound like that Alonso has "blood" on his hands.

Any bets that he won't be racing with Mclaren next year, if he ever races in F1 again.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

The conspiracy theorist in might might want to suggest that he moves to a red car next year!

Someone knew about these emails, which is why the drivers were offered a deal to hand them over. I can't say it hasn't crossed my mind that this might be a stitch-up of McLaren.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

According to the BBC, Alonso threatened to hand them over...

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Exactly.

My opinion is that either both teams should have been punished, or neither of them. To only single out Mclaren is what seems unfair, to me - although that opinion is based on the 'evidence' available up to now.

It was interesting that Max Mosley seemed to be effectively accusing Ron Dennis of lying to him - something Ron vehemently denied when interviewed during the earlier qualifying session :erm:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Martin Brundle alluded to as much in an interview i watched yesterday.
People are constantly moving positions between the teams and have always taken team secrets with them.That in itself is nothing new.

Has`nt F1 been so much better over the last couple of years though,this will just make things all the more interesting afaic:)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Well another fine win by a world champion hopeful

And it means he will win the championship in China next weekend if he beats Alonso, or loses no more than a point to him. (History will be made if he does as no rookie has ever one in his first season)

Alonso binned the car :)

Hamilton will be the Sports Personality of the year me thinks

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Fascinating race, mostly for the 'wrong' reasons.

I didn't get what Ferrari were doing, going out with intermediate tyres - whether they knew about the instruction to go with full wets, or not, they were gambling on the weather clearing up for them to be any use. As it turned out even the full wets were aquaplaning, so it was a bizarre decision. Have to say a superb drive by Kimi to get on the podium.

I'm glad there were no injuries from the various shunts, it wasn't exactly 'safety first' & while I appreciate the commercial pressure to put on a show, I have to question whether it should have been run, at all?

But Hamilton was very impressive & despite the dodgy nature of some of his comments
in interviews, showed he could get the job done on the track, once he had survived being spun off by Kubica....

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

It's at the back of my mind that even if Lewis wins the word championship that Ferarri may have other ideas. I hope i'm wrong, but I can see Lewis winning next weekend, only to find out that a complaint to the FIA has been made about him or the car.

Let's be honest, we know what Ferarri were doing with intermediates on, they were hoping the conditions changed, and that nobody would notice their mistake(deliberate in my mind).

Bet you the FIA wouldn't have been interested if McLaren(or any other team) had filed a complaint against Ferrari for using tyres they were not supposed to have on the car.

FIA=Ferrari International Assistance

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

kimi should be disqualified for not starting the race with the right tyres.

The excuse "we didn't know" is BS. every one else knew

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

If they had gained an advantage, I would agree, but as it turned out they would have had to change them, anyway, once the safety car had gone in, as the conditions were still too wet for intermediates at racing speed.

Ferrari were in a shambles, compared to their usual standards, today....

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Lewis could be in trouble -

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40921

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Looking at the video, his driving was a bit odd. Does anyone know why he took the corner so slow and wide?

Also, how comes there's no official video footage of it? The news showed a mobile capture...

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

he is a professional driver, he should have been aware of everything, not watching hamilton in case he had a problem

ik

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I think because of the difficult driving conditions, Hamilton will get away with it (I dont think he did anything deliberately wrong, just drove erratically). With a safety car out, and rain pouring down, as well as very poor visibility, the cars behind didnt need to be so close.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

it was missed by most of the cameras so the only good footage of the whole incident is from a camera from the stands.

lewis nearly ran into the back of the safety car and so had to brake to avoid that.. Webber had to move and brake to avoid hitting or passing Hamilton, although I think he could have passed and them let hem straight back in front, which meant Vettel had no other option but to hit the back of Webber

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

He may get his knuckles wrapped for it, i just think he was pulling out of the spray from the safety car so he could actually see but then found he had very little grip or somthing.

I cant remember but was that the lap before they were bringing the safety car in ? in which case the rules of following the safety car closely do not apply

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Schumacher did this in Monza a few years ago and it forced Button out of the race and nothing was done.

Although one of them drives for Ferrari and banning the other would help out Ferrari :shocked:

It was the lap the safety car was coming in but I think the lights were still on at the time so the rules do apply but i'd have to check what they are TBH

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Who reported the video to the FIA?
Quote from Formila 1 website:-
Scuderia Toro Rosso team principal contacted the race stewards after seeing a Youtube video of the incident that saw STR's Sebastian Vettel ram into Mark Webber.
-------------------
Enough said, what engines do Toro Ross use? is it by any chance Ferrari?
so no guessing who is really behind it.

In the video Hamalton was nowhere near the other cars and one driver has already admitted he wasn't looking where he was going.