Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

As the title says, i am moving to SkyMax 16mb soon...
What speed am i likely to get? Samknows says i am around 999m (1km) from the exchange here in llanrumney...

This will be the first time i have had an ADSL2+ connection, only ever had a cable connection (NTL/Virgin)...

Thankssssssss

Edward.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

That'll be an "as the crow flies" estimate.

Your actual line length will be longer. However, hopefully you'd get near enough full speed, unless the actual line length is ridiculous compared to you distance from the exchange.


It is affected by more than just line length though......noise can have a big impact on the speed & quality of your line.

You could have a really good (low) attenuation value (shorter the line - lower the attenuation), yet still get crappy speeds if your noise margin is poor.

Have a read of this:

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php


I'd recommend disconnecting the ring wire (orange with white bands, no.3) from the back of the BT master's faceplate & the back of any extension sockets, as a first step in noise reduction.


It is also definitely worth getting a filtered faceplate for the BT master (if you have a fairly modern NTE5 master).

I've mentioned them before here: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34242326-post2.html


I now use an ADSLNation XTE-2005 filtered faceplate.

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php


Also worth buying decent quality microfilters, such as these:

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xf-1e.php


Or you can get extension sockets with built-in microfilters, such as these:

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xtf.php


[If you have a filtered faceplate, then microfilters or filtered sockets are not needed for any extensions run from the filtered output of the faceplate - as the filtering is done at the faceplate. But, you may run an unfiltered extension from the faceplate, & may want to then provide a filter at the other end of that depending on what is being connected].



The quality of cable used for extensions can also affect things. Cat5e or Cat6 network cable, or decent quality "ADSL cable", is better than bog-standard "phone cable".

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Just curious, what does this do? Are there any side affects?

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

The ringwire is used by energise the bell on some older phones if they are plugged into an extension as theres no capacitor in some extensions

Without it connected some older phones may not ring.

Modern phones have an electronic ringer so it doesn't usally affect these.

The ADSL microfilter has a capactior in it so any phone should ring on the extension without the ringing wire connected.

The reason to disconnect it is in some cases it can act like an antenna and pickup noise which means the ADSL may not work as well as it could do as if theres more noise on the line the modem/dslam may have to sync at a lower speed to get a stable connection.

Less noise and more signal may mean a higher sync speed and less errors :)

At least i think thats correct anyway :scratch:

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Yup :tu:


Disconnecting the ring wire on mine made an instant improvement in noise margin & speed.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/63...ving-poor.html

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

a 1km straight line hard to call.

its possible you can have a very good line and achieve above 12kmbit but also possible to have a poor line.

My guess is you will see something between 6mbit and 14mbit.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Taking out the orange with white bands in my phone line gave me a 1meg descrease!

EDIT: I took 2 wires out by accident instead of one! I got a 100kbps boost.

---------- Post added at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 ----------

The max I can get is....

ADSL Link -------------Downstream ---------Upstream
Line Attenuation -------59.0 db -------------31.5 db
Noise Margin ---------- 7.1 db---------------12.0 db
Connection Speed------3616 kbps----------- 768 kbps


Anyway I can get around 4/5Mb so same as my cable line?

The filters Sky gave me gave me speeds of upto 2Mb, the filters which I got from BT gave me the speed I got now 3616kbps.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

if theres a power point near enough by try unscrewing the faceplate of the master socket providing its new enough to have one it should then reveal another phone socket, try plugging the router into that

(discconects your extension wiring) if you find you get faster speeds there then you either need to check some of your extension wiring or move the router there perminantly.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

I had no internet at all in there! (I used filter as well? Was I meant to? I also unpluged the dog and bone from the filter) Thanks though.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

you didn't?, thats a bit worrying.

Did the dog and bone work ok when plugged into there?

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Well the phone worked when plugged into the removed face plate (yes while it was removed!)... did'nt try it in the test socket.

Will try after dinner though.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

someone's wired that up wrong then! :Yikes:

from what your saying it sounds like the incoming line has been wired into the faceplate rather then the back of the socket like it should be.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Could you tell me how it should be wierd up then?

Thanks.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

the incoming line should be wired to A and B on the back of the actual socket not the faceplate.

Theres probably some screw down terminals on it.

you can find the colour codes here
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/wiring_info.htm

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Well I had problems wiring it not long ago... non the the diagrams worked! And found a sheet of paper in a draw with them on which gave me a working line.

I've tried lots of websites with just either a blank line or a crackling line with NOTHING on it.

---------- Post added at 17:55 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Current Setup

A = White with green bands.
B = Green with white bands .

1 = Empty.
2 = Blue with white bands.
3 = Orange with white bands.
4 = White with orange bands.
5 = White with blue bands.
6 = Blank.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

A and B on the back of the master socket should be connected to the cable coming in from outside.

There is a specific way around to it but it will usually work either way around, just if you connect the A and B the wrong way it will report a reversal when BT do a line test.



as the ADSL filter has capacitance and the ringing wire can sometimes act like an antenna you can disconnect that if you want just leaving 2 and 5 connected.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

But I have 6 wires coming in from the outside!

The blue wires in A and B resulted in blank line... and the orange is used for ringing etc aint it? so I dunno how this works.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

but only the right pair should have dial tone on ;)

You could always stick a voltmeter across them if your unsure.

B wire should have around -50 v DC on it to earth
A wire should have 0v on it to earth


Conditions on the line may affect the voltages though so don't expect it to be exactly that.

Failing that leave a telephone connected off the hook and touch the ends on the A/B terminal when you get dial one you got the right pair.

Once you've found the pair with dialtone you can dial 17070 on the phone (or 147017070 if your line is set to withhold number) it should announce your phonenumber then press option 1 for a ringback test and verify your phone rings ok.

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 18:24 ----------

EDIT: just looked at your pic.

The cables coming in from outside should not connect to the front plate at all!

On the other side of the piece with the screwdown terminals should be a socket, that's the test socket you need to be plugged into when doing testing.

Who wired your phone socket up?

Edit: Orange is only used for ringing on internal wiring because the extension sockets don't have capacitors, with ADSL installed the microfilters have capacitance (that and most modern phones have electronic ringers so don't need the 3rd wire anyway)

You should have 2 wires (the A and B) coming into the master socket from outside, the others are spare cable pairs in case you have more than 1 line or one of the pairs goes faulty. Leave the spares disconnected.

take the faceplate off and put it to one side for a moment and then plug the phone into the test jack on the front of the master.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

BT origninally wired it up until it yanked out when cable was installed.

SO if no wires should be connected from the outside to the frontplate... does that mean I will have lots of loose wires?

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

yeah apart from the 2 that connect onto the back of the master socket to give you your phone service... probably best to cover bare ends with insulation tape or cut them back so they can't move and short anything out...


Any luck finding the pair that's got the dial tone on it?

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Try the White one with Orange Bands Onto B

And the Orange one with White bands onto A

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

EVERY wire is disconnected apart from the blue ones and we still have a working telephone and internet... should I connect these to the A and B?

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Yes looks like its those then ;)

I think the solid blue one is most likely the B leg.

Sorry not sure why i said orange earlier, must be going loopy, forgetting my colour codes again!

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Blue wires connected to A and B.

Phone = Working fine (did test call)
Internet = Still working :)

DownStream Connection Speed 3776 kbps UpStream Connection Speed 768 kbps

Thanks :)

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

no problem if it doesn't go any higher that's probably the best your going to get out of your line unfortunately.

For the extensions they connect to terminals 2 and 5 on the back of the faceplate

it should be Blue with White Bands on 2
White with Blue Bands on 5

Disconnecting the others *MAY* improve the adsl speed if your adsl is connected to one of the extensions and on modern phones it shouldn't affect the ringing (at it defiantly shouldn't if the microfilter is connected to the extension)


Note:

The colour code on the extension wiring isn't all that critical as long as you connect them the same at both ends ;) just makes it easier for the next person who comes along to work on it if its done correctly.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Thank you for your help it's much appreciated.

I'm sure its the router giving me low speeds as I used to on UKONLINE get around 5Mbps (If I was lucky).

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

Just been trying the connection around my house... In my bedroom we get around 2.1Mbps... In my mum and dad's bedroom 3Mbps... and downstairs where socket is... 3.7Mbps.


I was thinking that the BT line has around 5/10/20 metres spare slack on it and if 5 minutes makes us lose a meg on an extension... that 5/10/20 metres extra cable on the BT line might make us get to around 4Mb!

Is it worth cutting the un-needed cable of the BT cabling?

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

You can try it if you want... you shouldn't really be touching the BT end of the cable if your phone service stops working and they find its because of something you did they will charge you to fix the fault.

Providing your careful and now know which pair to reconnect can't really see the harm in cutting it.


Edit:

would be surprised if its the router giving you low speeds, don't sky use a netgear dg834GT with their own firmware on.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the DG834GT is good at holding a decent sync speed even on some pretty poor lines.

Not sure if the SKY version is more conservative I borrowed the non-sky version from a friend and its holding up great on my line (my d-link g624t is a little unstable, going to reflash it either back to d-link fw or wait and see if an updated routertech fw becomes available for it)

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Are we allowed to re-flash it.... also would the email address be teh "*********@ sky.com"?

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

sorry i ment my d'link router i'm not on sky.


Apparently its possible to reflash the sky router but sky don't like you doing it.
i've read on some forum sky auth against the routers mac address not a username/pass not sure if that's correct or not.

the sky router is a DG834GT (i think, its either that on the DG834G) with sky firmware.

I know because the person i borrowed the DG834GT off of had switched to SKY and i'd plugged up their sky router for them, because it used the Same PSU as the old router I just swapped the routers over using the exiting power/phone cable (they had the cables all run in nicely, seemed silly to pull it all out just to but another one of the same in.)

It looked the same as well apart from one was branded sky on the front instead of net gear.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

You said before that your attenuation was 59.0 db.... that'll be why your speed is poor. Plus having a low noise margin too doesn't help things.






Yep, the Sky router is a Netgear DG834GT.

You can flash the Sky router with normal Netgear DG834GT firmware, however it's a violation of the Sky BB Terms & Conditions (as is using an alternative router to the one they provide). Is possible though.

The Sky router does connect using a username/password. However, the custom Sky firmware hides these from the customer. If you flash with normal Netgear firmware, it reveals the username/password info hidden by the Sky firmware. There are also other methods to extract the username/password, & other info [ http://www.asininemonkey.com/netgear...#URL_Injection - there are tools available such as this which simplify it ]

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Does anyone know why sky insist you use their router :confused: most other isps don't.

Are the sky routers yours (like with the sky digibox where its Yours to keep after the 1yr contact) or theirs (like with VM modems/Stb)?

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

Well, I'd think that making everyone use the same router simplifies things for Sky BB tech support....



Yep, the router is yours to keep, just like a Sky Digibox.

Re: Might be getting Sky Max 16mb Soon...
 

wander if i can pick some up cheap on ebay and reflash them with the standard netgear firmware so they'll work on any isp. ;)