might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

i have a spare hard drive ,so thoght i might install ,Linux OS 2007,
anyone here had a go with it , is it easy to install etc .
can i just download it ,or is it better to buy a ready made disk..
thanks chaps ...

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Not got experience of that distro, but they tend to be easy enough to install these days, I prefer Mandriva 2007 Powerpack - it comes with the AIGL / XGL / Compiz desktop options etc, which, if you didn't know is the 3d cube desktop look, also includes transgaming cedega for those windows games ;)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

having just done a quick search , i have noticed there are many different types of linux :shocked: is this just to confuse us
i am down loadind one called ubuntu at the moment as it says i can use it on my machine as it is at the moment ,without instaling it .
at least i think that what it will do .

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Yeah you can boot Ubuntu from the CD to try it out, but bear in mind it won't be anywhere near as fast as actually installing it

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I tryed Linux Mandrake

It was very good, Ran very fast and looked well

think its changed it nmae now.

I just downloaded a DVD .ISO put in on a DVD and swaped HD's and booted from the DVD no worrys.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

its easy to install but thats as far as easy goes
If you have to have a look then as said download a live version have a look then give up because its gonna give you a headache

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Yep, Mandrake (the company) merged with Lycoris and Conectiva to form Mandriva. There are free-of-charge versions of Mandriva available, as well as paid-for versions (called Powerpack) that include technical support and some non-open source components. They also have the Mandriva Club that you can subscribe to for a small monthly fee.

Their Wikipedia page is pretty comprehensive... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandriva_Linux

To go back to the point Sheridan made, there are indeed different versions of Linux - these are the so-called "distributions". Linux itself is the actual kernel, i.e. the core operating system. Briefly, all distributions use the Linux kernel (albeit some will be using slightly later versions of the Linux kernel than others) and then the distribution maintainers will add on the extra applications that they want to include. It's this that differentiates one distribution (or distro) from another - but at the heart they all use the Linux kernel.

There are hundreds of different distros available - have a look at www.distrowatch.org to compare them - but they are mostly all just variations of a handful of base distributions, such as Debian, Red Hat, Slackware. For example, Ubuntu is a modified version of the Debian distribution, whereas Mandriva is based on Red Hat, whilst SabayonLinux (the distro I'm currently using) is based on Gentoo.

There's no definitive "better" or "worse" distro... it's all down to personal preference. The great thing about Linux, though, is that you're free to choose whichever distro you want - in fact, this is the best way to learn about the differences between each one, and it won't cost you a penny to switch from one to the other. As they're all based on the same Linux kernel, however, you won't struggle if you do decide to switch distro as they all work in pretty much the same way... there are slight differences, for example, in how you install software in one distro that uses package management compared to another where you compile stuff specifically for your environment, but the underlying mechanics of the operating system remain the same from one distro to another.

Hope that helps :)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I'm dual booting WinXP & Ubuntu, like Zeph said it's really slow running it from the CD but once it's installed on a hard drive it flies along. An added bonus is that (for me) my NTL connection worked without any extra effort on my part. Plus 90% of my windows software either works directly in Linux or has a Linux replacement.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

It's no less easy than Windows.... it's just different ;)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I disagree windows apps install by simple click .
In my limited experience with Ubuntu and ATI drivers with bloody terminal and 1 mistake spells dead OS. Then there is the boot loader remember the op is running Vista so that will be fun and you cant just delete Linux if you have no luck because that will screw up said boot loader .

Incidentally how good is WINE? although by definition its not a emulator but it clearly is ;) how many windows apps actually work through it? can it be used to run games and the ilk? .

As you have said I would prob be able to get my head around it if I have to but I dont have to ;) Fair play to those who do and know all the scripts to keep it running and installing apps etc but it all seems like to much of a ball ache for me as I like to refine everything I do to its simplest methods which windows does allow. My work load is done so efficient (well I think so ;)) as to make what I earn in half a day what most none zingles would take all day to do ;)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Mate, you knew you'd get me started with this post, didn't ya? :D

Let's put the shoe on the other foot.... Wine does allow you to run some Windows applications under Linux with varying success. How many Linux applications can you get to run under Windows? ;)

ps - you're right, it's not an emulator as it has it's own version of Windows DLLs, etc... rather than doing pure emulation ;)

pps - Cedega is better for gaming than Wine on its own. Although neither really are ideal. An XBox is the best answer for gaming ;)

I don't use Vista, but I've heard that the latest versions of Grub and Lilo (the Linux boot loaders) both correctly identify Vista and allow you to dual-boot with ease. Again, does the Windows boot loader allow you to install other operating systems, or does it restrict you to only having a Microsoft OS on your machine?

I'd agree with ATI's drivers being very sucky though... but that's a problem with ATI not with Linux ;)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I run World of Warcraft and Steam (HL1, HL2 and Mods) through standard Wine in OpenGL mode with no problems. If you want to play DirectX games, you will need to invest in a Cedega license

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Back on topic...

Sheridan, if this is your first foray into Linux, I'd recommend doing some reading whilst you're installing Linux.

This article seems quite good... http://gazeek.com/linux/the-complete...n--part-1.html

Also, the information over at the Ubuntu forums website is fantastic - in fact, this and the level of community support makes this particular distro stand head and shoulders above the others for newcomers to Linux. http://ubuntuforums.org/ - add this to your bookmarks :)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I wouldn't put an ATI in my machines, I would call that a cruel & unusual punishment.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Sorry, have to disagree mate. Installing almost anything requires trawling through readmes and copy/pasting endless commands into terminal. And if it doesn't work, its endless reading mans, googling and trawling through forums and blogs blindly copying various admin commands some complete stranger has wrote. If you want a recent example from myself, after installing XGL and Beryl (which took bloody ages), the shutdown button disappeared. After more googling and reading, its apparently to do with Beryl not being granted admin rights which is silly. Again, its pasting more code from strangers, which could do anything. Massive leap of faith.

Even with Ubuntu, RPMs still have to be converted and installed, again more commands through terminal. Its great it has many apps preconfigured, but if you do want one that isn't, its much, much more harder work. I remember installing my wireless adaptor on Mandrake, which took a complete evening of googling and trying before I eventually got ndiswrapper to work.

Linux is getting better, but its still got a long way to go. Until all distros universally support RPMs, and true point and click install, it will always be behind Windows on user friendliness.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

So far since installing Ubuntu I've only had to copy & paste commands once, everything else I've done has been point & click, installing on Ubuntu is only as hard as you make it for yourself & converting RPMs is totally unnecessary most of the time as you can find a DEB version right next to the RPM.

If you really "have" to convert an RPM there are things that can be installed to make it point & click too, so like I said it's only as hard as you make it. :D

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Been having a dabble with Fedora Core 6. Very slick and easy to install from a desktop perspective.. yum inparticular works superbly. I've had one or two issues getting iptables forwarding/masq up and running though.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I do see your point, Gav... and I think you've probably got a point that sometimes it is unnecessarily complicated. There is room for improvement, I'll admit that.

I think the way Apple have addressed the user-friendliness of OS X is a good example to be followed. I know it's not strictly based on Linux but Free-BSD is close enough to Linux for me ;) People talk about how easy it is to install software on a Mac, and how simple they are to use... if it can be done with OS X then surely it should be possible under Linux too.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

The point is the user shouldn't have to 'make it'. That's the job of the developer.

Anyway, in the space of a few days, it needed google-copy-paste fixes for..

1. Installing graphics drivers
2. Installing XGL
3. Installing Beryl
4. Retrieving the shutdown button that Beryl removed it.

And it wasn't just one lot of pasting, some steps in there it required any lots of pasting. Like this.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

you should hope OS X isnt based on open source as its the only thing Mac have to make there systems as expensive as they are

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

OSX is a good solution, and entirely possible under Linux... If didn't contradict the most basic principal of linux and unix. That's modularity and variety. OSX is a singlular solution, but the reason why so many distros exist with different kernels even, is because Linux wasn't supposed to be singular solution. Which is good in that you get a lot of choice... But bad in that it lacks consistency. Like the packaging managers for example. You get RedHat's RPM, Debian's DEB.

Distro creators really need to start working together and coming up with some common (not singular) solutions to the problems.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I didn't think that XGL or Beryl were standard in any distros yet though? From what I remember they're included in the various repositories of stuff but not fully supported as standard.

I'm not sure that Linux is yet ready for every desktop, but it is much more useable than it used to be. I'm currently running MythTV on Ubuntu and am happy in the knowledge it works reliably, seems to be much more efficient on the CPU than Windows ever was using the same applications. The system is dual boot, but Windows gets booted so in-frequently that it spends more Windows time downloading and applying patches than it actually does doing anything useful.

Personally I think that while Linux has come a long way you still need to be prepared to do some research yourself. Particularly with hardware and drivers. However it's a very good alternative for those of us that don't fancy giving MS more money and don't want to upgrade a perfectly good PC just to run Vista.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

but you dont have to install vista either no one is twisting anyones arm. Also a thing to note on what you said about updates. How many times in the last say 4 years have you had to install a new operating system to keep up with new integrations into linux? Im still running xp(on 3 machines) I have done since what 2001(obviously on different machines but not everyone upgrades like me) so 6 years without having to install afresh to update my version. Ok ive reinstalled cuz its broken but thats something else

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

i dont get why people like packages so much, if windows programs/games stopped asking where you wanted them installed then there'll be endless complaining about it so why are people allowing package managers to do things they should be doing?

users should not be forced into anything which is why i prefer to build the programs myself, i choose what parts to build and where they end up, that way i know exactly what security problems can affect my computer without wondering "did some random person compile that feature?"

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Linux is a ball-ache, there are too many flavours of it, a lot of it is a case of copying and pasting somebody else's script and taking a leap of faith as punky said, and there is not enough variety when it comes to applications, it's simply not practical for average everyday users.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

well i have now had a little go with ubuntu and pclinuxos
the later has a mind blowing desktop eye candy .you can spin the desktop ,very cool, makes vista look bland,
but i can see they would be very limited to run any of my software so looks like its just a thing to play around with . and i will stick with vista for any real use ..
fun though ..
thanks for info chaps

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

The point is your everyday user wouldnt know how compile and run the program so they would end up copying and pasting a script off of the internet that joe bloggs wrote to do it for them, thus you have the same flaw as running a package on a windows system without the security of having in most cases a well known developer do the job for you.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

For the first highlight ...your one person how many windows users are there?

For the second highlight ... how many of them could do what you can?

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Dont get me wrong, I am firmly in the MS Windows camp for the average user, but I wouldnt tell the company I work for to migrate our servers over to MISC CPU's and run a flavour of Windows Server with Oracle for Windows for our database, the uptime of some of our RISC based CPU systems running HP-UX is going back to 1998, that's a hell of a long time.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

But again thats specialist as you say. I do not know the proportion of home user pcs and business based systems so I cant put a figure but your looking at millions of pcs alone in this country in the home running windows and the user on the main knows diddly squit about the actual machine or software other than what it does after you click start etc ;)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

to true mate hence I would always recommend that people use windows at home, despite working on unix systems at work i run windows at home.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

:tu:

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

first highlight, i'm not the only one who thinks this way, and i managed starting off on compiling things, never touched packaged based distros. when you say "windows users" are you implying they know nothing? for the people who just use browse the web and read email, what advantage do they have to using linux? barely any.

second highlight, the average joe can use a microwave or a remote for the tv can't they? a simple ./configure --help will show the options they have, don't understand one? thats what google is for! for me if theres an error when compiling i can usually spot whats wrong, for the cases where the problem is new to me, googling for the error has always given a solution. to compile things, it is a simple set of commands that most people are either too lazy to "learn" or think its beyond them

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Not everyone is like you mate and yes linux has a lot of followers but nowhere near as many as windows why do you think that is? just cuz everyone is lazy? or just cuz sometimes things need to be easy and if your not that interested why would you want to learn stuff
Im by no means a noob but I dont want to have to run linux I have no interest in it so I dont really want to spend my time learning it

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Come on Zing - still Mr Negative on the Linux front.

All it comes down to is knowledge and the patience to learn as with any operating system.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

and im to busy to have to learn something very few people will ever need my help with so where is the logic in learning that? all ill get out of being able to use linux is ill be able to use linux whoopie doo

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Not sure it does. What most people refer to as OSX is a closed source add on to Free BSD.

The problem for Linux is that to take off in the home market, it needs to just work. Little reconfiguring. Users also need to be sure that the software they buy or download will work, and isn't compiled for a different distribution.

One advantage of Windows is that 90% of the time, it just works with a little wizard-based configuration. The Mac is the same, except it has the advantage that Apple has full control over the hardware, so it is a little more reliable. Both platforms have the advantage that if you install a piece of software for that platform, you can be fairly sure it will work (obviously, it may require something you don't have)

I'm not knocking Linux. Far from it. I experiment with Linux from time to time, and the two devices I have that use varients of Linux are incredibly reliable. My old WRT router gets rebooted whenever a new version of DD-WRT is released, and my Tivo only gets rebooted if there is a power cut.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

People like install packages so much because they are friendly and the average home user would run away screaming if faced with having to compile something. I know people who look blank when I mention having to use PKZIP and PKUNZIP a few years back.

Most install packages for larger applications (eg, Office etc) all include custom installs so you're not forced to install something you don't want.

When I released my Windows apps, I used InstallShield to make the setup package (there are free ones however) so the user wouldn't be presented with a ZIP file with a Readme telling them to copy files here, there and everywhere (I'm sure that would have got my support email box full in no time!). It's just not what they want, nor do most of them understand anything more than a Wizard.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

The simple solution is, if you want to run Linux at home, go for it? No matter what anyone says you have to make your own mind up about it

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

but dont come crying when the system is unusable to you after you do

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

The main problem with Linux for the masses isn't program installation. If you have a decent distro with decent packagers & good repos, problems are negligible.

Hardware recognition & drivers is a far bigger issue. Failure of hardware manufacturers to provide linux drivers (or even allow access to specs so others can write them) is the main problem...

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Spent several months with Ubuntu Dapper and Drake but always had to dual boot with XP because two of my scanners aren't supported, my Canon printer worked but not at full resolution and my tv card would not work no matter what i tried! Let's not mention that you have to rely on Windows dll's for such basic things such as mp3 and avi :(

Agreed Linux is more appealing the Micro$ stuff but until there's a distro that can work out of the box like XP then i can only see it being a "geek" machine :(

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

True true true but seriously I do wish you could see the performance gains you get out of running a linux desktop.

You're well aware of my recent conversion to full desktop linux and boy am I happy but just in case there are problems/lack of software then run another computer and windows in parallel.

I don't think I'll ever go back to a 1 machine 1 OS setup whether it be linux or windows. Dual machine it - have your cake and eat it too.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

slight performance gains in one hand hassle in changing from something thats efficient now in the other errrrrrr ;)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

" This ones always going to be on the dark side Luke "

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

lol and this one aint gonna change in a hurry

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

LOLz Nice come back ;)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I've been dual-booting XP & Ubuntu 6.10 GNU/Linux for a few months now.


Very happy with Ubuntu, so far.


Only things which didn't work straight away for me under Ubuntu were my wireless connection (the default driver for my card wouldn't support WPA), & file sharing. The wireless problem was sorted quickly using a guide on the Ubuntu website, while the file sharing problem is still being worked on (almost got it working thanks to help from CrC-3rr0r via a thread here).

Dell to offer Linux with its desktops and laptops
 

About bloody time n all. I'm fed up of having to pay the microsoft premium thats always hidden in the cost buying a new laptop.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02...nux_computers/

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

You should be able to buy pcs / laptops with nothing on in the mainstream. My laptop come bare. First thing I would do with a preinstalled pc with back up is wipe it and do it my way anyway

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I'm so glad I'm not the only person who insists on having a blank hard drive when I buy a pc.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

well I dont buy complete pcs but if I did .........

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Yeah, same here. I got a Toshiba laptop which was pre-installed with all manner of junk. Loads of things starting up when Windows did, loads of icons in the system tray. Had to go! Formatted and did a fresh install of XP.

I *hate* having tons of icons in the system tray when Windows boots. I don't mind apps that put one there while I'm running it, but everything these days seems to want to run on start-up even if it serves no purpose to do so.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Or when you reach the realisation of "oo, well, it's pretty and everything, but other than browse the internet, use openoffice and watch DVD's illegally after a load of hassle (or have they finally included the license with distros?), what use is it?"

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

LOTS Gave up faffing around with windows today as it just couldnt play HD clips correctly or smoothly so I thought I'd try it in linux...

I was more than impressed I got upto 1080 on my supposedly lesser speced linux machine.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

my pc plays hd fine

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Plenty types of hd about mate. What format did you try / codec and what software did you use to play it with ?

Also do you know if you're using hardware acceleration at all

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

just tried a load of hd trailers at various res with no difficulty

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

No, you don't.

Virtually all Linux media players use the ffmpeg codecs for multimedia decoding. This is the same set of codecs that are in VLC and Media Player Classic (amongst other things) on Windows and Mac.

Until recently, you had to use Windows DLLs to view WMV9 (only -- earlier Windows Media versions were supported by ffmpeg). But there is now an open source decoder included in ffmpeg, and there is a closed source GStreamer decoder (based on source code from Microsoft) is available for sale for about a fiver IIRC.

Zinglebarb: why be so unpleasantly negative about Linux? If it's not your thing, then that's fine, but to be honest I'm surprised and disappointed that an experienced poster such as yourself finds it necessary to "contribute" to a thread like this several times saying nothing but "I think it's crap". Grow up.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

:rolleyes:

As I say PLENTY of different types of HD formats - just because it says HD doesn't mean anything specific. HD can be NTSC and vice versea too.

Don't worry about it you don't know.

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------

Awwwwwwwwwww leave him alone let him keep searching for his Holy Grail machine the one he keeps raving about - That Windows x64 that he found really smooth and fluid.

Don't worry we have it already :D (Unfortunately it runs linux)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

link me to some that dont work for you then please dont talk to me like that

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

:rolleyes: again

Come on Zing if you don't know what your talking about then don't get upset and have a go at us.

Wikipedia blu-ray, hd dvd for a start, take a look at the basics of h.264 and move up from there.

The content I got is not available on the web but you know where to get it from :)

For the equivalent test just try playing a blu-ray disk and letting us know if you can get to 1080(i/p) and what you cpu utilization is like.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

buy me a blu ray rom first and I will. I admit I dont really know the subject but I have downloaded 1080p and played it full screen at 1680 : 1050 in quicktime does that not count?

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Nah not quite you'll know when you get a blu-ray ;)
Even my old Athlon plays these clips fine.

blu-ray/hd-dvd is looking like a con to me - I'm thinking whether we need it or not.

This is a good thread : http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=1680

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

so what hd clips wont your pc now play?

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:36 ----------

ok downloaded a rar file from a h.264 encoded movie . Played in it power dvd 7 full screen with clev 2 off (whatever that is Pdvd said I should) and it played fine using 29% cpu

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

what bit rate is your file playing at in power DVD ? me suspects its not over 10mbs then ask yourself what bitrate a standard DVD plays at ?

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

tell me how to find out lol

it is using atis avivo hardware rendering

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I haven't used PDVD in ages, but IIRC, it's on the r/c menu you get during playback. Might be something like "Info" - it makes it put up the frame rate/bit rate, etc in the top right of the screen. Having said that, the last 1 I tried was PDVD5, so it may be entirely different by now.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

i wasnt aware the average joe could install windows, so yes lets not do that for them, that'll help :rolleyes:

its quite obvious you dont like linux but less obvious why. to me it seems you dont agree with learning how to use it, were you born with the ability to use windows? to ride a bike? to set a vcr up etc? Just because there are no fancy buttons to click and it uses text files for configuration doesnt make it infinitely hard to learn. config options have names for a reason, to tell you what they are for and all config files have either comments giving detailed paragraphs of each option or a help page that does the same thing, something windows doesn't in lots of areas

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Ok, as a web server or firewall, that basically sits in the corner and isn't touched, it's fine.
But how many home users need that?
Tell me, got legit licences to watch those DVD's? ;)

Last time I installed linux (about 9 months ago) I couldn't watch DVD's without installing a load of other stuff, and even then it was poor quality.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Why would anyone need to have a license (permission) to watch something they own?

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

course any old Joe can install windows its all wizard run as any old Joe should be able to install Linux however its what happens next thats the problem.
I spent a lot of time learning what I know and im no No0b however if linux worked out the box with easy to install drivers and run everything I need for day to day computing without having to compile everything then I woudl consider learning other aspects of the system.
Why should I have to read paragraphs of text to install a driver? or a piece of software? no thank you. If linux is ever going to become mainstream it will need to more user friendly if it does not then it wont

one thing I have noticed is when I express my views on Linux I get talked down to by the Linux fanboys something to be honest im not prepared to tolerate

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Because a license to decrypt the DVD is not included in the price of the DVD.
The DVD player under your TV, PowerDVD and WinDVD etc on your XP box, have all paid for the ability to decrypt DVD's so they can be watched legally.
Linux being free can't pay for these licenses, so you either have to buy a linux dvd player which covers their cost of the license, or do it illegally using software which has cracked the code.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I downloaded this a couple of days ago to see if it was any good... Unfortunately the accesability is still just as poor as it has always been :(

I did get further with Ubuntu and Orca - but it's very unreliable.

The trouble is, of course, as so few people use it it's not worth supporting (Orca that is).

I am trying to learn linux for other reasons, but until I can get a fully accesable version I guess I won't be.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I got on better with Suze, better than Red Hat or Ubuntu.
Secure wireless was fun, whenever I tried to use WEP etc it from linux it would kill the router! Lovely.
So had to run unsecured with a MAC access list on the router, wasn't what I wanted.

Got fed up having to cut and paste reems of code to get things to work with no one actually explaining anything, and of course not knowing if within that code someone had put anything malicious, or just made a mistake which would screw everything up, or just not work.
Posts after posts in forums of similar hardware problems I was experiencing, with either no feedback, or "Got it sorted" and no explaination.

Wanted to use the 64bit version as I've got an AMD 64, but ran into the same problems as Win64, lack of 64bit drivers.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

[1]
Have you got ANY ACTUAL facts to back this up ?

FYI DVD playing on linux is a grey area and basically the MPAA has given up its efforts on TRYING to prosecute linux users due to losses like this :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3341211.stm

[2]
Do you always just give up if a newly installed program doesn't quite do what you want it do do on Windows ?. For the record I actually don't watch DVDs on Linux but tried it yesterday and yes the default player, like the default player in windows -wmp, was crap and so I installed something else.

I mean why don't YOU use windows media player as the default for playing DVDs, mp3s and other media as is intended by the Windows Operating System ?

:rolleyes:

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Me too, for what it is. The trouble is with it, is that 'official' NTFS-write support is experimental/beta, and I just can't risk my data on that. So using Ubuntu is kind of limited for me. Just a shame there isn't a single file system that is universal to all.

I do like the way that both Ubuntu, Mandriva and Gentoo happily recognised my NIC whereas Windows needs an additional driver off the mobo CD.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Wouldn't that actually come under the heading of fair use? I should be able to use a DVD I've paid money for on any machine capable of playing them.

---------- Post added at 12:00 ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 ----------

It's actually the NTFS write support that's experimental at the moment, reading is perfectly safe, well as safe as anything to do with windows can ever be.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Support for FAT32 (vFAT) has been there for a long time in R/W support so I just tend to have a smallish (1gb maybe) FAT32 partition for sharing info between the Operating Systems.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I tried Wine and others, a real pain installing library after library, hunting through forums to try and find how to get everything to work, which it eventually did, but playback was poor in all the players I tried.


The point is the players aren't legally capable of playing encrypted DVDs
Think of it like this, just because you can get in a car, turn it on and head down the street, if you don't have a license to do it, you can't do it legally.

Now if someone were to tell you how to circumvent the encryption so you can play encrypted DVD's without a license through this forum, technically that'd be encouraging and aiding others to breach copyright (we're not in Norway).

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

But what good is a HD if you can't write to it??

As Zeph said, better to try a FAT 32 HD and use it to buffer between the two OSes, but its a pain.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I know you're right but it just doesn't make any sense to me, I've already paid them for the privilege of watching the films so why should I have to pay them again to play it on a different OS? that's more than a little unfair especially when you consider 99% of software/Movie thieves are using Windows.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Well if Microsoft documented the NTFS subsystem then we would have had an NTFS linux driver years ago.

Read this :

http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/5/30/110

Besides why would you want to write to NTFS in the first place ? Just to use that partition for extra storage ?

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Well the people producing the player software are the ones who should be paying.
The same would go with any free DVD player software on Macs or Windows.
Buy a new DVD drive for Windows and get a "free" copy of WinDVD? It's included in the price of the drive, and in that price is the fee for the licensing of all the technologies involved, from DVD decryption to simply reading the DVD by the drive.

I know you're not meaning it, but you're basically saying "I've bought this DVD, and I should have a free dvd device to play this"

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I need to get a bigger HD before I start mucking about with extra partitions but it's something for me to consider when I do :D They'll probably have the NTFS write support fixed by then anyway.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

last time i checked that only applies in america and their crazy copyright laws, playing dvds on linux is perfectly legal in countries except america which is why a lot of distros distribute US only isos with the dvd functionality removed

i wouldn't say the average joe could install windows tbh

most drivers are either included in the kernel and to the average joe, the distribution, any other drivers are binary-only ones and come with their own wizard like installers, no reading necessary. Regarding software, its not exactly "paragraphs" more just a few lines with the commands, the rest of the docs is just like the help in windows programs and details of what to do when things go wrong.

i'd say thats because your views come across as being too lazy to learn the differences and over exagerate what needs to be "learnt", maybe if you actually knew more about linux and what you really do need to learn, not what you think you need to learn it'll help all involved :p:

imo anyone can know how to use linux, its not hard, just different, that isn't going to stop it being mainstream, what is though is that game developers and hardware manufacturers lack of support for it. game developers cant develop games if theres no opengl drivers and the hardware manufacturers wont make drivers if theres nothing to use them. this of course is slowly changing so when games become cross platform linux will pickup in the mainstream

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Xaccers FYI :

DVD Decoding over the Years

DVD has an encryption mechanism called CSS (Content
Scrambling System.) They also wouldn’ t make Linux versions.

Though many had quietly cracked CSS, in 1999 a Norwegian
teenager Jon Johansen was the first to publicly reveal how
trivial CSS was with his "deCSS" decoder.

On Jan 3, 2000, SVLUG helped EFF pack a courtroom in San
Jose and defeat a Temporary Restraining Order against 500
web sites with deCSS source - first shot in the DVD CSS war.

On May 29, 2003, EFF won in the California Supreme Court.

The DVD Copy Control Association abandoned CSS as a trade
secret. So now no one questions the legality of playing a DVD
that you legitimately own on Linux, BSD or other Unix systems.

This wouldn’ t have started if they had allowed a Linux player.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

I agree it does sound like I'm saying that, it just seems to me that these people are getting more & more greedy every day, How many times do they want to be paid for the same thing? I have a film (paid for) I have a DVD drive including player software (licensed & paid for) I choose to use a different OS that doesn't need the licensed software so I'm a criminal? I'm not the one charging twice for a product am I?

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

What a thread ! Just to remind people that here is the question/topic posted by the OP

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...54&postcount=1

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Again, what is the point of a HD if you can't write to it? Firstly, all my work is there, which can't be updated. Secondly its where all my storage space is. I can only download upto the limit of my ext3 petition which is about 20 gig

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

To reply to Zingleb's comment about being talked down to by Linux fanboys. I suppose I could be called a Linux fanboy, but I'm in no way talking down to anyone, in fact I've used Windows since it started so I know more about that than Linux & couldn't talk down to anyone about Linux if I tried.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Well really dual boot - how dare you insult linux ;) and also if as you say all your primary data is on Windows then - just use windows :)

For me I used to dual boot years ago and also run into the same problems as you and others and really used the same methods to overcome these issues.

EG creating a massive shared fat32 partition (over the 32gig limit as imposed by windows :rolleyes:) but its not the solution.

Recently instead of dual boot I dual machine. 2 machines - linux, windows both on 24/7. Primary data is on linux with the windows machine being the slave what you see on the desktop of the windows machine are actually files from the linux box via a network share.

Both machines have there own monitor.

Single mouse and keyboard controls both machines via x2vnc or synergy.

Doubles you multitasking potential instantly :)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Is the network connection wired or wireless? I'm looking to do something similar with my 2 (soon to be 3) machines.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Wired

For extra bandwidth try two NICs on each machine with 1 NIC par being a dedicated crossover for VNC/shared desktop.

I tried wireless years ago but it didnt work as great due to me using 11mbs wireless with a true bandwidth of 5mbs.

Basically your vnc / synergy connection should have low latency to ensure fluidity when you're rapidly moving the mouse from one machine to the other.

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Thing is, the license for decrypting DVD's is to pay for the development of that encryption, you're not being charged twice.
Without it, there wouldn't any point in developing it, I mean, would you let your company invest thousands of pounds in a technology that you could make no money from?
It's not the Entertainment companies that get the money when you by WinDVD for instance, but some of the money goes for the payment of the decryption license.
To do it without license is on a par with piracy and theft in that you're getting something without the people who put their hard work into it getting anything for it.
And your wrong, no matter what you do need the licensed software to play it to remain fair and legal.


Suse and Redhat still offer no native encrypted DVD playability from what I can see, so you still have to go through the fun (or pain) of installing libdvdcss etc to get things working.
It depends on your outlook on fairness, should a company be paid back for their development of technology, or is it ok just to rip them off?

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

ntfs-3g is now in stable status...

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

:tu:

Is it seriously ? and safe ?

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Cheers for that.... Bit of a leap of faith though as its so new :disturbd:

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

Nah ntfs-3g has been around for a while but to announce 1.0 stable is something.

WOW The waiting is over I'm going for an install :)

Re: might give Linux OS 2007 a go
 

If you're worried, read this... ;)