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-   -   Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33605001)

penkapchew 16-12-2006 14:00
Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
I've searched the internet a lot and it's very difficult to find out what the UK's laws on regarding this matter. It seems that DVDs and MP3's are illegal to download, but if I download a TV show, for personal use only and upload nothing... is that illegal?

If so, where exactly is the law that states this?

Also... somebody stated there may be a loophole in that if you are reviewing a tv show it's legal to download.

Please advise

albert_the_dog 16-12-2006 14:09
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
is downloading a tv show the same as recording ?
is it legal to record tv shows which i assume are copyright:confused:

AtD

punky 16-12-2006 14:37
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
:welcome: to the site penkapchew.

It is illegal because the show isn't licensed to be distributed in that manner. It doesn't matter that the output is the same as legally recording it. As the distribution licensing hasn't been paid for, its theft. Unless of course, the content is licensed for distribution. I believe Channel 4 are distributing content via P2P for a small fee, which is legal, if you've paid the small fee.

Standard copyright includes saying things like "unauthorised duplication or distribution... etc... is prohibited".

Albert_the_dog: It is legal to record shows (I believe that was only after a court case), but not to distribute them.

Nikesh 16-12-2006 15:43
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
I was going to ask the same question but you've already answered it thanks ;)

Chrysalis 17-12-2006 01:03
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
from what I have researched it isnt illegal to download tv and then use for personal use, what is illegal is the redistribution of it, so essentially if you are downloading it for free lets say eg. of p2p, then you are doing nothing wrong but the person sending you the file is.

DaggaDagga 17-12-2006 01:10
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
It's also illegal to drive at 31mph in a 30mph zone. That's why absolutely nobody ever breaks a speed limit, ever. :)

Russ 17-12-2006 01:11
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
The approach of "everyone does it" is not a valid defense IMO.

punky 17-12-2006 01:33
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34180725)
from what I have researched it isnt illegal to download tv and then use for personal use, what is illegal is the redistribution of it, so essentially if you are downloading it for free lets say eg. of p2p, then you are doing nothing wrong but the person sending you the file is.
Technically.. But I wouldn't want to have to explain that to a judge.

Considering the file was illegally distributed, it can be classed as stolen goods, so download it can be classed as handling stolen goods.

DaggaDagga 17-12-2006 01:44
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Has anyone ever been prosecuted for downloading copyrighted material? (I don't know the answer by the way, I'm wondering).

The only prosecutions I can think of have been people sharing via p2p (i.e. uploading). And usually only the ones with massive quantities of files.

Chrysalis 17-12-2006 04:02
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
its sort of like that situation when someone did a denial of service attack and got took to court, then got the case thrown out because it was breaking any existing laws.

Paul 17-12-2006 04:11
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Many US shows are now available for download from the TV companys own website (a recent cancelled show was only available this way) - the companies also seem to turn a bit of a blind eye because they aren't directly losing money (you don't buy a tv show from them like you do a song) and it gives their shows more exposure.

popper 17-12-2006 04:29
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
currently within UK law you 'would infringe copyright' and hence potentially be commiting an UNLAWFUL act not an illegal act.

"
Is UK right to copy Aussie copyright?

Australia are about to change their copyright laws to allow people to rip music to their iPods and MP3 players by introducing new fair use exemptions, including an exemption for private use (see Rip it up (and start again?)). Are we about to do the same in the UK?


Under current UK law consumers who rip music they have bought from CDs to their iPods or MP3 players would infringe copyright. However, Peter Jamieson, Chairman of the UK record companies' trade association, the British Phonographic Industry, told the House of Commons Select Committee for Culture, Media Sport Inquiry into New Media and the Creative Industries on 6 June:
"We believe that we now need to make a clear and public distinction between copying for your own use and copying for dissemination to third parties and make it unequivocally clear to the consumer that if they copy their CDs for their own private use in order to move the music from format to format we will not pursue them."
The question now is whether or not there will be an explicit change in the law to reflect this or whether there will simply be a change in the nature of the licence on the CD. Instead of the wording "all rights reserved" perhaps we will start to see on the CD inlay a limited licence to copy to other formats for personal use.


Posted by Des on June 20, 2006 at 01:30 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBack (0) "

the latest white paper (i.e not currently UK law, if ever...)
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/...report_755.pdf

cookie_365 17-12-2006 10:53
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
It's illegal to download copyright material.

Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 - Sections 16 and 17 for a start.

Haven't we done all of this before?

toots66 17-12-2006 13:50
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popper (Post 34180802)
Under current UK law consumers who rip music they have bought from CDs to their iPods or MP3 players would infringe copyright. However, Peter Jamieson, Chairman of the UK record companies' trade association, the British Phonographic Industry, told the House of Commons Select Committee for Culture, Media Sport Inquiry into New Media and the Creative Industries on 6 June:
"We believe that we now need to make a clear and public distinction between copying for your own use and copying for dissemination to third parties and make it unequivocally clear to the consumer that if they copy their CDs for their own private use in order to move the music from format to format we will not pursue them."
The question now is whether or not there will be an explicit change in the law to reflect this or whether there will simply be a change in the nature of the licence on the CD. Instead of the wording "all rights reserved" perhaps we will start to see on the CD inlay a limited licence to copy to other
While the record companies would undoubtedly prefer us to buy the CD and the electronic version and any number of other formats of the same material over and over again, it's never a good idea to sue your best customers!

Itshim 19-12-2006 10:54
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Does all this mean that PVR`s dvd recorders etc are in fact tools used in crime & could taken by a court of law !

Hugh 19-12-2006 11:08
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 34182392)
Does all this mean that PVR`s dvd recorders etc are in fact tools used in crime & could taken by a court of law !
Not if you read post #5 above :dozey:

Itshim 19-12-2006 12:33
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
being picky it said "will not" not can not

Hugh 19-12-2006 12:37
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34182409)
Not if you read post #5 above :dozey:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 34182466)
being picky it said "will not" not can not
post 5 states
"from what I have researched it isnt illegal to download tv and then use for personal use, what is illegal is the redistribution of it, so essentially if you are downloading it for free lets say eg. of p2p, then you are doing nothing wrong but the person sending you the file is."

Can't find "will not" or "can not" in that post - sorry.

punky 19-12-2006 12:40
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 34180795)
Many US shows are now available for download from the TV companys own website (a recent cancelled show was only available this way) - the companies also seem to turn a bit of a blind eye because they aren't directly losing money (you don't buy a tv show from them like you do a song) and it gives their shows more exposure.
I thought they were changing that attitude now, due to the immense popularity of DVD boxsets.

If you download a TV ep the day it was screened, you'll be less likely to buy the DVD boxset a few months later.

Stuart 19-12-2006 12:40
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toots66 (Post 34180920)
While the record companies would undoubtedly prefer us to buy the CD and the electronic version and any number of other formats of the same material over and over again, it's never a good idea to sue your best customers!
Which is why they prefer to go after the large scale suppliers. However, they do seem to operate on the assumption that someone who gets a pirate copy won't go out and buy the real thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 34182392)
Does all this mean that PVR`s dvd recorders etc are in fact tools used in crime & could taken by a court of law !
IIRC, the law specifically allows recording for timeshifting purposes. Basically, you are allowed to record something then watch it, as long as you don't keep it for longer than 28 days.

cookie_365 19-12-2006 22:17
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34182409)
Not if you read post #5 above :dozey:
Except point 5 is wrong ;)

In English & Welsh law (don't know about Scotland or NI but I expect it's the same) it's legal to record a broadcast television programme for viewing at a more convenient time.

So if you use your PVR or DVD recorder to watch a programme later, once, then delete it, you're within the law.

If you use it to watch the programme more than once, or don't delete the recording after you watched it, you're not.

AntiSilence 19-12-2006 23:22
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toots66 (Post 34180920)
it's never a good idea to sue your best customers!
Tell that to the RIAA! Mind you, they like to try and sue dead people as well.

I also will not buy another CD since the last one would only play back in my PC at only 22kbits using a dodgy player. Of course, because I wanted to play it in my PC I *must* have been trying to copy it. Nothing to do with not having a stereo any more.

Anonymouse 19-12-2006 23:59
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiSilence (Post 34182792)
Tell that to the RIAA! Mind you, they like to try and sue dead people as well.

I also will not buy another CD since the last one would only play back in my PC at only 22kbits using a dodgy player. Of course, because I wanted to play it in my PC I *must* have been trying to copy it. Nothing to do with not having a stereo any more.
Is the CD DRM-protected? If it is:

a) You might think about pursuing a legal case under the Trade Descriptions Act and the Sale of Goods Act. :) According to Philips, who still own the copyright on CD production, their definition of a CD - the only definition accepted by law - says that a CD is not a CD if it's copy-protected. I can't remember what they call it instead, but if it's copy-protected the record label does not have the legal right to call it a CD.

b) If the CD is on the Sony label, you may have installed a rootkit of some sort :Yikes:, which might explain the poor playback. Download and run BlackLight Beta just in case, especially if your PC starts displaying odd behaviour.

cookie_365 20-12-2006 00:27
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse (Post 34182814)
Is the CD DRM-protected? If it is:

a) You might think about pursuing a legal case under the Trade Descriptions Act and the Sale of Goods Act. :) According to Philips, who still own the copyright on CD production, their definition of a CD - the only definition accepted by law - says that a CD is not a CD if it's copy-protected. I can't remember what they call it instead, but if it's copy-protected the record label does not have the legal right to call it a CD.
Yes, though chances are it doesn't actually say it's a CD anywhere on the packagaing or on the disk - though given that these things tend to be displayed & sold together with genuine CDs you may have a case under SOGA - not sure if it's ever been tested in court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse (Post 34182814)
b) If the CD is on the Sony label, you may have installed a rootkit of some sort :Yikes:, which might explain the poor playback. Download and run BlackLight Beta just in case, especially if your PC starts displaying odd behaviour.
Were any of these abominations sold in the UK? I was under the impression they weren't, though I can't be bothered to search for the info ;) Was it a grey import?

Anonymouse 20-12-2006 05:12
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie_365 (Post 34182842)
Yes, though chances are it doesn't actually say it's a CD anywhere on the packagaing or on the disk - though given that these things tend to be displayed & sold together with genuine CDs you may have a case under SOGA - not sure if it's ever been tested in court.
If the interior of the jewel case has the 'Compact Disc Digital Audio' logo moulded into the plastic and the CD is copy-protected, they're in trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie_365 (Post 34182842)
Were any of these abominations sold in the UK? I was under the impression they weren't, though I can't be bothered to search for the info ;) Was it a grey import?
Oh, they were. Believe me, they were. Mark Russinovich's blog is at:
http://blogs.technet.com/markrussino...e-too-far.aspx

- and there are several entries from people in the UK. Apparently Sony have stopped producing the XCP discs...just as well, or they'd have gone tits-up before too long. :)

What worries me now is that apparently Mark Russinovich has gone to work for Microsoft. :Yikes: I can't help but draw parallels between this and Anakin Skywalker...I'm going to have to go and read his latest blog. Then again, it might be a change for the better in that Microsoft will now have someone working for them who knows what he's doing.

AntiSilence 20-12-2006 08:12
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse (Post 34182814)
Is the CD DRM-protected? If it is:

a) You might think about pursuing a legal case under the Trade Descriptions Act and the Sale of Goods Act. :) According to Philips, who still own the copyright on CD production, their definition of a CD - the only definition accepted by law - says that a CD is not a CD if it's copy-protected. I can't remember what they call it instead, but if it's copy-protected the record label does not have the legal right to call it a CD.

b) If the CD is on the Sony label, you may have installed a rootkit of some sort :Yikes:, which might explain the poor playback. Download and run BlackLight Beta just in case, especially if your PC starts displaying odd behaviour.
Yes, the CD is copy protected (but not very well ;)). I tried ripping it under XP and it was just listed as a big data track so not rippable. But, under Win2k, they were listed as the real audio tracks. So I ripped it to MP3 to listen to it properly.

I know about the bit about not being able to call it a CD, but I'm not sure what it says on it without digging it out of a box somewhere! And, I seem to recall that it was on the Sony label then I read about their nice little rootkit. But fortunately, I'd reinstalled XP since then on a new hard drive, but had already MP3'd it :)

---------- Post added at 07:12 ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie_365 (Post 34182842)
Yes, though chances are it doesn't actually say it's a CD anywhere on the packagaing or on the disk - though given that these things tend to be displayed & sold together with genuine CDs you may have a case under SOGA - not sure if it's ever been tested in court.



Were any of these abominations sold in the UK? I was under the impression they weren't, though I can't be bothered to search for the info ;) Was it a grey import?
Yes, they were sold in the UK. And no, it's not a grey import. It's the full UK version.

Paul 20-12-2006 10:34
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin (Post 34182472)
I thought they were changing that attitude now, due to the immense popularity of DVD boxsets.

If you download a TV ep the day it was screened, you'll be less likely to buy the DVD boxset a few months later.
Actually, I thought recent surveys showed the opposite - people who had downloaded material were more likely to buy the originals.

cookie_365 20-12-2006 14:30
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse (Post 34182883)
If the interior of the jewel case has the 'Compact Disc Digital Audio' logo moulded into the plastic and the CD is copy-protected, they're in trouble.
Indeed - can't help laughing at the Amazon screenshot on your link - 'Content/Copy Protected CD'. So is it content/copy protected, or is at a CD? ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse (Post 34182883)
Oh, they were. Believe me, they were. Mark Russinovich's blog is at:
http://blogs.technet.com/markrussino...e-too-far.aspx

- and there are several entries from people in the UK. Apparently Sony have stopped producing the XCP discs...just as well, or they'd have gone tits-up before too long. :)

What worries me now is that apparently Mark Russinovich has gone to work for Microsoft. :Yikes: I can't help but draw parallels between this and Anakin Skywalker...I'm going to have to go and read his latest blog. Then again, it might be a change for the better in that Microsoft will now have someone working for them who knows what he's doing.
Well, Microsoft weren't responsible for Sony's software, were they? Shame he hasn't gone to work for Sony - their software is just abysmal :erm:

Itshim 20-12-2006 15:12
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
"We believe that we now need to make a clear and public distinction between copying for your own use and copying for dissemination to third parties and make it unequivocally clear to the consumer that if they copy their CDs for their own private use in order to move the music from format to format "we will not pursue them."* Here it is

Chrysalis 20-12-2006 15:22
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 34182921)
Actually, I thought recent surveys showed the opposite - people who had downloaded material were more likely to buy the originals.
In my case thats happened, I have downloaded shows that I would never have thought of watching and then gained interest, a couple of these shows I have purchased dvd box sets.

Tezcatlipoca 21-12-2006 00:33
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 34182921)
Actually, I thought recent surveys showed the opposite - people who had downloaded material were more likely to buy the originals.
I bought the Rome boxset, & all the BSG (reimagined) boxsets after having watched them by other means. Planning on splurging on Stargate DVDs next.


I like to see things early, instead of waiting for UK broadcasts, but it's still nice to *own* something :)

Robster 21-12-2006 00:58
Re: Is it legal to download TV shows in the UK?
 
I got into Family Guy and American Dad via download, and have gone on to buy American Dad season 1 and Family Guy season 1 & 2 (so far).

I would never have got interested in it otherwise as its one of those things that seems to get irratic/latenight airings on TV here.

I've also bought a few CDs on a similar basis: artist suggested by a friend....downloaded a few tracks...liked it...bought the CD


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