NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

ok guys, now that ntl is really expensive compared to its competition, and cannot provide a decent broadband service at evenings, I am seriously considering leaving.

I cant leave the broadband aspect till February, as I have not completed the first year, but tv and phone I can.

Comparing some standard things on these 3 providers, we get:

NTL:
£18 for base? [not sure]
£18 for 4mb broadband [assuming rumours are true]
£15.50 for TU24

Total: £51.50

Talktalk:
£21 for line rental, 8mb broadband + inclusive calls to UK and many international countries.

£15 for Sky TV

Total: £36

Sky:
£15 for Sky TV
£5 for 8mb broadband
£5 for Sky talk- inclusive calls to UK landlines, and from 20th Dec to 10 international countries!
£11 for BT

Total: £36

Now I know talktalk has rubbish broadband [ntl's fairs only slightly better at the moment], but sky broadband is UKOnline, and the people that I know that use it dont seem to have a problem with it!
Also with Sky including some of these international countries in its call package for free must surely give Sky the edge right? I mean it would then be better value then vonage?

So basically I am wondering who to change to, ofcourse not yet, but in the near future.

Are there other companies that should be considered?

P.S. re: adsl, I use to have it before, and apart from being absolutely rubbish with tiscali, it was better with f2s before they started having problems too. But however I know that my line is capable of the 8mb, as I have received results of 7.1mb on speed tests .

PPS, Sky LLU is in my area, LWWEM

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Regarding NTL, you can get Talk Unlimited, 4Mb Broadband & Family Pack for £50 a month and this includes the family pack TV.

I'd be very surprised if you got anywhere near 8mbit on ADSL unless you live right next door to the exchange.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Option 1

Call NTL retensions on Monday and ask them to match the Sky offer. Hang up if they don't and try a different person. They will match the price.

Option 2

Try this

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ch....php?p=summary

It will give you a good idea how far you are from the exchange (try both number and post code). Sky Uses ADSL2+ plus and I have seen pretty good results in Guildford: 13Mbps (ok 115 meters from the exchange) (My neighbour)

The provider for Sky Broadband is Easynet (for my exchange)
-------------------
Results for HA97EX at 18:50 09/12/2006


The following services are available in your location (Wembley):

BT Wholesale ADSL
BT Wholesale ADSL Max
BT Wholesale SDSL
Be LLU
Bulldog LLU
Easynet LLU (aka Sky Broadband)
Homechoice LLU
Pipex LLU
Orange LLU (Formerly Wanadoo)
21CN switch-over due Q2 2009

Please select the options on the left for more information about broadband availability at your location.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

I have been in touch with BT, they will re-instate my line for free, give me level 2 for the first year i.e. weekends and evenings free calls for £11.00 a month

Sky are saying that I can get their top tier of up to 16mb for £10.00 a month, if I could get a 4 meg regularly I would be happy.

NTL costs me £11.00 for telephone rental and 24.99 for 4 meg BB, after Christmas I will have to have a long think about this as if you are with BT there are a lot of deals open to you but with NTL you are locked to the one provider.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

My postcode is HA0. Yes I have called retentions, but currently I am still paying £33ish for 10mb[UPTO] base pack, star plus & TU24. Now on sky I would have a much better digibox, ie one that changes channels when u want to, not when the digibox decides to let u! Plus that would be a FIXED price. My ntl retentions offer wont last forever, and i have to keep calling every other month as the bill is usually wrong! Also, ntl broadband isnt exactly gr8 at the moment!

btw, I am 950m from the exchange roughly!



As I sed, I use to get 7.1mb from f2s LLU.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Go for Sky, there is not reason to stay with NTL, the Sky box is better. I also hate keep calling NTL every 3 months...

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

I have sky satellite and it is very good, thanks for the link Lobster very informative :angel:

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

He he the usual cable fan boy answer . On top of the exchange

I don't live on top of the exchange and i get close to full speeds on ADSL2+. Its about time cable fan boys realised this

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Excuse me?!? You should refrain from insulting forum members, go back to your pram.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

And stating the old boring on top of the exchange all the time got old in 2001

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

But for most people it's a fact unless you live in a city that's been unbundled.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Hmm... i wonder who Be* is?

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

And its still what is happening now, Or do you know something everyone else that works on ADSL and installs the equipment in the exchanges does not. I have worked both on ADSL and on cable, its still the same as it was in 2001. IF you want good speeds you HAVE to be within 2.4 km of the Exchange, You have to be on copper not aluminium. As you go further from the exchange the attenuation of the line increases therefor reducing the speed capability of the line.

If you are so sure of what you are saying then produce the evidence that goes against everything stated by the adsl manufacturers.

---------- Post added at 15:25 ---------- Previous post was at 15:24 ----------

Produce the evidence to support you rather childish statements.

If you cannot i suggest you growup before taking on the grownups :D

Some more evidence

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Having recently worked for BT Business Repairs I can only agree with Bill. ADSL speed on BT network based telephone lines is indeed equipment, line quality and distance related.
If you are very lucky and your line is good and all equipment between you and the exchange is working well then you will get a good speed. If any of the many things that can go wrong between you and the exchange does go wrong then you will get speeds which can slower than dial up.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

I have worked in 1 BT exchange that had over 400 meters of copper in the exchange itself before it even whet onto the nodal areas.

Don't get me wrong cable when its bad can be just as awful.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Better not let the pikeys know where that exchange is lol ;)

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Excellent.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Ganging up on Be*?

Bill C: how do you equate "on top of the exchange" with < 2.4km?:rolleyes:

To me , it's few meters!

When and where, did Be* say that the ADSL speed will NOT drop when the distance is >2.4?:rolleyes:

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

when you look where some exchanges are in comparison to the customers then you see why i talk about distance.

If you go by distance i SHOULD get good speed but when i was on UKONLINE i did not. My friend who is on ADSL2+ 2 streets away from me is approximately 2.9 kms from the exchange and only gets 8.9 meg on his connection. I dare say that is because the main trunk cables could be rather old here. That might account for the atrocious phone line i had from BT, But that's for another thread ;)

And finally as for BE*

i was not the one getting mouthy, If you are going to talk the talk you should be able to walk the walk as well when it comes to getting mouthy

So a question for BE* how close to the exchange are you. you can get the info HERE

you will get data like this

BT ADSL broadband availability
You are connected to the Warrington telephone exchange.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifADSL is available in your areahttps://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gif
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services
According to BT Wholesale, your line should be able to support a 5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max.

Standard ADSL RAG results:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 2Mbps ADSL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 1Mbps ADSL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 512Kbps ADSL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 256Kbps ADSL

You are approximately 1.53km from the exchange (straight line distance).

Your BT ADSL code is:

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Woot 300m away from an exchange!

BT ADSL broadband availability
You are connected to the Whitefield telephone exchange.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifADSL is available in your area
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYour exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services

According to BT Wholesale, your line should be able to support a 6.5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max.

Standard ADSL RAG results:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 2Mbps ADSL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 1Mbps ADSL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 512Kbps ADSL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2007/10/14.gifYou can receive 256Kbps ADSL

You are approximately 311 metres from the exchange (straight line distance).

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

As the crow flies but Telephone lines follow the roads more than crow flight paths ;)

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Well the exchange literally is at the top of my road, near enough exact straight line.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

How recently was your street built? If it's a newish development you stand a good chance of getting fullish speeds.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Since when is 2.4km on top of the exchange?

And straight line distance means nothing. Its the line length thats the factor and no line takes a direct line from the house to the exchange

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------


1800's

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

This is what i said

IF you want good speeds you HAVE to be within 2.4 km of the Exchange, When did I that's ME Bill C say ontop of the exchange ? Please show me where

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Was actually speaking to the poster above my post but your street is about as old as some round here. Unless BT re-ran the wires to your home recently it's probably the run between your house and the exchange causing the drop you were talking of in your other thread. Even rain can cause problems with ADSL if the telephone lines are run above ground :(

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

But its still not on top of the exchange is it?

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

You did not answer my question ?

so i will repeat for you.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

I never claimed you did. I said the poster who said it was posting tosh. You then said i was wrong and produced the 2.4km figure which in return I said its still not on top of the exchange is it

Not once did I claim you had said that

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

you are implying by this statement that i did.

The point i am getting at is that if you go beyond 2.4 or so Km's your speed will drop very fast indeed. So how far are you from the exchange ?

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Straight line distance 261 metres.

Line distance is about 1.4km.

But I could live next door to a exchange yet my line could take a long route and end up be 2km in distance.

Straight line makes no difference at all

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Correct.

And now i see why you get good speeds. I am 1.5 km from the exchange but my cable length is 2.9 kms.

However i am 8 km from the cable exchange and when the 20 meg trial was on i got 19 meg :).

Different technology which will ensure cable will beat ADSL hands down until BT dump the speaker wire connection.

Cables weak link is the UBR which NTL need to be continually upgrading as more customers come on line.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Like VDSL and 21cn :)

And obviously Cable can only beat DSL in the areas it is in. DSL will always be here as it covers a far more percentage of the UK then Cable will for a long time. Its like people saying "well you can pnly get LLU if your exchange has it". Well its the same for Cable you can only get it if a cable runs down your road

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

21Cn is years away for some areas so it will be a while before companies have to really start trying to compete properly.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

My area is due to be completed in 24 months which is not to long considering how time seems to be flying by :D

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

I don't live in a city so my area is due in late 2009.

I can only get about 6.5mbit ADSL MAX and i'm only 569metres(straight line) from my exchange.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

21cn still uses the speaker wire connection. VDSL is even more affected by distance. :)

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Not for me :D

And anyway until Telewest can offer me 20mb for £24 i am happy here. And yes i need to play for Line rental but I would need to on blueyonder to as I have Sky Multi room. So makes no diff

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

24 months = 2 years so you are in theory are you not ;)

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Well its Q4 2008 so it could be completed in Sept 2008 which would mean under 2 years :D

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Knowing BT I wouldn't hold my breath on an early completion...... their engineers went to the same school as NTL when it came to getting a job done on time lol
Edit:
Shouldn't you and Bill still be swinging handbags at each other?? ;)

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

I am waiting for him to reply :D

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

As for 21cn If you talk to some of the BT engineers they will give you a better idea of what they think of it :)

About a little side bet :D

Bet i can get 50 meg before you can on BT via you home connection. :D

:LOL:

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

I bet you would of said that about 20mb two years ago ;)

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

21 CN will make no difference to broadband speeds. 21CN means the exchange equipment is changed but the access network stays the same, i.e. copper - kind of like putting a Formula 1 engine in a Model T Ford.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

That is what i am led to believe by the BT engineers

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Well NTL is creaking at the seams what will happen when the mythical 20 and 50 meg are supplied :angel:

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

It will fall over :D

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Regarding fibre to the home, see here:

http://www.telecommagazine.com/newsg...?HH_ID=AR_2576

Paul Reynolds the CEO of BT Wholesale is quoted as saying "I really don’t see a business case for widespread FTTH. It is not immediately apparent where the incremental revenue would come from that investment."

Looks like the unbundled operators will have to stump up the cash to put fibre into the local loop.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Hmmm :D

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Well its now only £26 for the above except the Sky Talk Freetime is only unlimited evening and weekends compared to Sky Talk Unlimited which you pay £5 for.

I'm currently paying £21 just for Sky TV so its a no brainer to pay an extra £5 per month for 8MB BB and Sky Talk Freetime.

http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/offers/bundles

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Err, AFAIK, BT aren't planning to replace the "Last Mile" as part of the 21CN programme.. So, ADSL will still have the same problems, just a more efficient backend connection from the exchange to the network (which, if I understand ADSL correctly, isn't the problem anyway).

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Swings and roundabouts really. Sky don't get you a great mobile deal and PC security though do they?

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

You mean PC Guard. I would rather use no security then that crap. Just go and ask on the Telewest newsgroups how good it really is. I think you will be surprised. And I get a good mobile deal now.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

But as a direct comparison inc TU24 calls, which includes international countries in SKY TALK and not in ntl TU24

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

That's correct BT are NOT replacing the speaker wire connection for the last mile. Its just not going to happen anytime in the next 10 years. That came from a Senior at a main BT exchange in Manchester City Centre. His words were

Everyone seems to think they are going to have some sort of super high speed connection out of this. Never going to happen.

21cn is all to do with switches and ip. Nothing at all to do with the customer end.

BTW

The DSL gang always shout VDSL well i suggest they read up on it and smell the coffee so i am willing to wait and go with 50 meg and beyond, Because it is not going to happen soon on a speaker wire :LOL:

Note the drawing is in Feet not Meters

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Perhaps that might happen, but can they afford it?

But with regards to the BT quote and they can afford FTTH. I would point out to BT, can they afford not to make that investment when a competitor like ntl can offer 20mb, 50mb etc.

Look at the States, the Baby Bells said no to FTTH until cable started offering faster broadband speeds, then they had a rethink and places like New York are getting/have already been fully fibered up.

I always look to the US, because what they do there always crosses over here several years later. Although, as I said on another thread, perhaps technologies like WIMAX may make this FTTH debate irrelevant anyway. Even ntl has publically said that they see the operation of using underground cables as becoming a thing of the past in the future. And wireless becoming the defacto broadcast/broadband medium. I guess at that point Cable Forum will need to find a new name:)

---------- Post added at 04:23 ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 ----------

A rather relevant article re ntl vs Sky Broadband and other ISPs here:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/editor...s-the-Limit/p1

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

That has been stated by many on here but nearly always after they have left and have been installed via one of the AMAZING deals :erm:.


The person who wrote that article had obviously not had many dealing's with $ky's India customer service call centre's. I have spent a few hour's on to them trying to understand there 3- 4 four week wait for an engineer or there ability to change the brand of your receiver even when you paid extra for a better brand, Its just a case of keeping :banghead: until like me your at the end of your contract and can cancel.




I am happy with what i have and noway am i changing to what is as far as broadband goes inferior technology in dinosaur land.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

You keep harping on about Skys indian centre but I read Telewest are now using a indian centre to.

You failed to mention that though :rolleyes:

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Not at all i have said in previous posts that both NTL and Telewest have offshore call centre's. I dont like them ether. :PP:

They too gave me a hard time. However i have never had to wait 3-4 weeks for a engineer to fix anything else. only $ky win that award.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Works for me.

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

I waited 2 weeks once for a Telewest *Ahem* engineer to attend my house and fix my phone line once. He went to the street cab and it was fixed within seconds.

That made me goto BT

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Good for you :tu:

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Yep it was and it was also the right decision

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Just like my decision to dump $ky

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Sky free calls are only for weekend and evenings, not 24/7 as you make out in your comparison to NTL with TU24.

NTL:
£11.50 for base
£10 for broadband
£18.49 for TU
Total: £39.99

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Sorry sky talk for £5 is unlimited all day and everyday

http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/skytalk

Re: NTL v Sky v Talktalk
 

Quite right, I do apologise. Skys web site is not that clear when you are comparing them.
It is pretty amazing they are offering free calls to USA, Canada and Australia - how are they making money on that??