Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Hi all,
I was just listeneing to the wireless whilst trying to force down some toast and marmalade when i heard a news report about some Government website on which is to be published the pictures and descriptions of sex offenders who have failed to comply with their reporting restrictions.

For those interested, the information is here
http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/ceop/

Now I am not a hand wringing liberal type. I am all in favour of the perpetrators of crime being brought to justice, dealt with and rehabilitated as necessary.

However in this case we are talking about people who have committed crimes ,those crimes have been detected, they have been arrested, been to court,sentenced,served their sentence and presumably been given some kind of help to try and modift their tendancies and then been released as free men. The only thing they have failed to do is to continue to report to the authorities as necessary.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6156712.stm

The media seems to continually stoke the fires of venom and hatred with regard to child sex offenders. Dont get me wrong, it would be better if such crimes did not occur, but then it would be much better if lots of other crimes didnt occur.

I beleive that it is irresponsible of a Government agency to publish the details of these people on a website. All they are doing is fuelling the public feeding frenzy and obsession that this country has with paedophiles. Even the popular name "paeadophile" is suitably rounded and shaped so that it is the kind of word that can be spat out with a degree of venom and disgust,it looks suitably nasty when sprayed in vivid colour by a teenage yob on a gable end and is enough to get the British Blood running when splashed across the front pages of the Daily Mail or the Sun.

I am just skimming through Blackstones Police Manual volume 1, crime 2006 and I am having great difficulty spotting any reference to paedophiles. The actual offences we are referring to are detailed as Child sex offences,,


just to quote:

The Sexual offences act 2003 section 9 states:

(1) A person(A) aged 18 or over commits an offence if
(a) he intentionally touches another person (B)
(b) the touching is sexual and
(c) either--
(1) B is under 16 and A does not reasonably beleive that B is 16 or over or
(2) B is under 13

So then, if a scroat on some crummy estate bangs up a 13 year old and he can proved that he reasonably beleived that she was 16 or over he is home and clear. How many times does that happen i wonder? Plenty of times I'll wager.

Strangely though, in certain countries of the world (not too far away!!), any adult could have sex quite legally with a 13 year old.

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

So then, the offence is sexual activity with a child broadly as detailed as above. The offence is NOT being a paedophile. That word is reserved for media rebel rousers.

Moving on, having had a brief look at the British Crime survey
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/crimeew0506.html

A weighty document, it would appear to suggest that actual recorded offences are below what public perception and media hype would have us believe.

Any foreign visitor to these shores who took the trouble to read our papers, would think that the UK was infested with child sex offenders when in fact the reality is quite different. The Government would seem to be finally relenting and doing its old trick of listening to the loudest voices, the same ones that scream for an American style Sarahs law.


But lets look at the reality of the situation;

(1) Such crimes, whilst serious, are only a tiny proportion of reported crime

(2) Some parents connive and facilitate such crimes by act or ommission

(3)There are other types of crime which have a greater impact on a greater proportion of the population and which remain largely unaddressed


If we are to name and shame then I'd much rather see details by region of

Antisocial louts who make all our lives a misery

People who assault and beat of pensioners

Street robbers

In short, name and shame all or non at all. Why name and shame a few people in a particular position simply to throw a bit of bloody meat to the baying mobs in the Arena? I guess it keeps them quiet and stops them thinking of other things doesnt it? Who was it who said .." keep them in the pubs and out of the libraries " ...?



Incidentally, i presume that these men will be charged with

Failure to comply with notification requirements-sexual offences Act 2003 section 91

max penalties- five years in prisonment or max six months and a fine,,

of course a defence would be that they had a reasonable excuse for not reporting.

Perhaps that reasonable excuse would be that they feared for their life if they went outside due to the baying mob?


Now all you out there, dont even think of accusing me of supporting these crimes becuase i dont. I just seek to take a more balanced view and I dont read the Sun.

Remember, these guys are tried,convicted,served sentence. Could you reasonably justify a situation whereby becuase of this Government agencies actions, a baying mob turned up at someones house and publically slaughtered them? Is that where we are at now here in paranoid Britain? If so , i dont want it and if so then i really do suggest that

We rename the British Isles> The Paedoph-iles

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

The problem is that the papers (and to a large extent, the rest of the media) think that bad news sells. They also think that if they can campaign for something, this will sell well as well. Think back to the News of the World and their "Sarah's Law", where they (offensively, IMO) cashed in on the plight of Sarah Payne, and even roped in her parents with some vague promise that it might help them grieve.

Sarah's Law was (IIRC) based up what became known as "Megan's Law" in the US. Basically, the US Government published the names and addresses of thousands of known Paedophiles. This backfired massively. Somewhere around 60% of those Paedophiles went AWOL, therefore making the situation worse, not better. At least here, the Authorities have a vague idea of where they are, and can therefore go some way to helping the Paedophile control their tendancies.

Not forgetting that there were probably hundreds of mobs formed that couldn't spell, and therefore went for anything beginning with "ped" (I know of at least one Pediatrician who was attacked by a mob for this reason).

Now, I am not against those who commit secual offences (of any kind) being punished. Far from it. However, they should be punished within the system. Not by a mob.

Thankfully, sex crime against children seems to actually be quite rare, but the papers seem to have a view of the world that is heavily distorted.

Our Government isn't helping because they are desperate to appear to be winning the fight against crime, without actually devoting any real resources to the fight.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

isn't it right that most child sex offencers are commited by people known to the victim, often within the family? tend to agree with stuart's analysis. this looks like a be-seen-to-be-doing-something-for-the-press thing which bears little or no relation to actually preventing the crime.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I agree, I often wonder though, was the attack on the paediatrician real and reported or was it an urban legend ??

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

i think it was real enough - was widely reported at the time though possibly not in the news of the screws ;)

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Indeed,, for instance, how many parents connive and assist whether knowlingly or otherwise, by not policing their childrens use of the computer/internet? It is often the case that parents house their pc in a bedroom or spare room ,simply becuase it is out of site, doesnt make the place untidy and acts as a childminder for them. They then rant and rave about how the internet should be shut down/policed simply becuase they fail to care for the welfare of their children.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/child/stor...361031,00.html
but this suggests over-reporting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I agree, This is a terrible idea.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

That's one thing I'd never do.. Most parents wouldn't let their child run free in a town or city, because that would place the child in danger. Yet, they allow the child to freely roam the internet, and let the child possibly expose themselves to all sorts of nasty things (sex sites, peadophiles etc).

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

My best froend lets his 6 year old girl use the net totally unsupervised. He's not got any protection on his pc as to what sites she can visit. He loves the fact that he has soem peace and quiet while she's online, but its totally unresponsible parenting if you ask me.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

That's one thing that has always surprised me. Most parents would be horrified (rightly so) if their child managed to get into a sex shop, but don't seem interested in the fact that some of the stuff online is far worse than any kind of item that can legally be sold in this country.

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------


Well, I did say "probably". Maybe I should downgrade that to "possibly"?

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

theres a balance to be struck though. if most child sex offences are carried out by friends and family then the chances of being attacked by a strager are further reduced. we have to give children some freedom and the chance to enjoy childhood, rather than keep them locked away because of the bogeyman. lets face it theyre more likely to get run over than sexually assualted.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm

Mostly legend.

Anyway they have to report to the authorities and have certain restriction placed on them as part of the original sentence. If they don't comply with those restrictions it's no different (IMO) than not complying with the original sentence.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

hey, i already posted that ;) :)

---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:24 ----------

ps. what if the paediatrician had been home?

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I am known at work for being a bit of a PC/networking guru. I'm not really, ive just been playing with computers and PCs for a long time and kinda picked it up as i went along.

Anyway, I have had three friends PCs in my room here for repair becuase they were knackered due to virus/other issues. On two occasions i had the same laptop in which was virus ridden. First time i restarted and reloaded it,got it going perfect,set up separate user accounts,secured it,explained the issues to the owner. A few months later it came back in the same state. All ££Ã ¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£ for me. On both occasions it was clear that his two young lads had been surfing various porn sites-curiousity you see. Same with the other PC. Parents need to upskill or put the PC where they can see it.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Can I just say that kids in certain areas know that if they label someone who's stood up to them a "peedo" then the adults in that area will not only turn a blind eye to any attacks on that person's property, but will actually egg them on or even join in. They don't care if there's not an ounce of truth to the allegations, it's an excuse to vent their aggression.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Yes, sure enough. Its one of those names that sticks like s**t to a blanket. Even if someone suggested it in casual gossip, it would spread like wildfire, true or untrue. Its one of those ugly kind of words, the kind of work like gay, paki and plenty others that is spat out in school playgrounds and sink estate shopping arcades the length and breadth of the country.

One thing that ****es me off is that whenever any reference is made to sex crimes, the masculine gender is always used.

Even in law within the sexual offences act "he" is used rather than he, she or it.

Of course this is probably for convenience and i have not checked but somewhere at the beginning of the book there is probably some disclaimer along the lines of..."the masculine shall also denote the feminine",,blah blah blah.

Let us not forget that there are also female sex offenders

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...ds/6126340.stm

Although all is not what it seems as in this case, the woman in question was acquitted as it was accepted that the youth had forced her to commit the acts whilst holding a screwdriver to her head. Presumably he will now be charged with something-we await the outcome.

Also it has been claimed that in some schools, pupils are more at risk of sexual offences from fellow pupils than from teachers !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4630168.stm

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I did hear a news piece on the radio yesterday morning saying that the government was considering giving mothers the chance to 'vet' new partners to see if they were sex offenders, at the time I thought it was quite a reasonable proposal, however since I have given it more thought and knowing how this government likes to know everything about us, I wonder how long it would be before such checks became compulsory, making it criminal offence to date someone without the relevant checks being done.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

As was discussed on Any Questions tonight on Radio 4, I tend to agree with the thinking that if a woman had sufficient reason to suspect her partner was a paedophile she'd be doing more than just asking the police for confirmation, she'd be making a complaint, and for women who didn't suspect anything untoward was going on, then they wouldn't have sufficient reason to suspect so wouldn't ask the police anyway.
Gets good headlines in the tabloids though don't you think?

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I think the laws should be changed to allow the public to know where these people are living. If they are in sheltered accomodation it wouldn't be necessary to point the finger but the public should be aware that the building is being used to house these people from time to time.

We are having some **** (oops sorry not allowed to say that) in our street with a new hostel being built, the council assured all the residents that it wouldn't contain any paedo's. It is being built right next to a TA centre for cadets, the military police has met with the local council recently, and they are being led to believe that the council may house paedo's in there.

They have no responsibility to inform the army, so there in naturally some concern about it being next to a cadet building. I believe the council will house whoever they want in there, its all down to cash, and the council will offer places to other local authorities (have said so reading between the lines) because there's money in it.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Indeed, but lets have some equality shall we? woman can commit sex crimes also you know..!

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I'm divided over the whole issue...As a parent I'd want to know just so I could keep an eye on my children.As a parent I'd also want to know that those that break the conditions of their release and disappear will be looked for and the public asked to help just as we do for other types of offender.

However I see the potential for vigilantes in the community getting out of hand and some innocent folk getting hurt.

How then to protect our children.Are we to always have to keep them tied to apron strings?Why do our children have to be perpetual prisoners.Why should any parent have to fear for their child seeking to have independance and the right to walk to school or do do errands unaccompanied as part of their growing up?

How to get the balance right? I've absolutely no idea what the answer is.One can always be wise in hindsight but it only takes a minute for a peadophile to strike and it only takes one poor photograph for the wrong person to become a victim of a mob.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

and important to recognise the actual risk of one our children being the victim of a paedophile, taking into account most victims know the predator, mainly through family as i understand it.

we should be aware of our childrens safety at all times and the risks they face. speaking for myself, a paedophile attack is not high on my risk assessment for my boys.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Agreed but they are few in number.We should warn our children not to go with any stranger male or female.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I note that you are "always in the wrong". That cannot be as you are female.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

No,it's just a me thing...:D Especially when teaching teenagers and dealing their expertise in logic chopping. ;)

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

are you the exception that proves the rule perchance? :)

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

hang em all i say why waste your time with them?:Yikes:

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Simple answer - mandatory tattoo on or near the genital area. Same goes for anyone diagnosed with HIV/AIDS. That way it wouldn't be openly on show, so as to avoid creating an insta-mob, or raising people's fears of people being victimised, but that way potential partners would know.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

sadly i dont think he's joking. lets not stop at HIV though eh - pink triangles too maybe alie?

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Don't be so ridiculous, being homosexual is not contagious, nor does it present a danger to others. Why do you think I suggested the tattoo be put in the genital region? So as to warn those [potential partners] of the risk [to themelves in the case of HIV/AIDS carriers, & to their children in the case of sex offenders], but to be hidden from everyone else.

Oh, & just to confound your assumptions further, whilst I am straight, I approved of the AOC law being changed to make it the same for all, regardless of orientation.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

But by the time the child saw the tattoo, wouldn't it be a bit late...?

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I don't think the child is the one the tattoo is intended for, it would be for the mothers benefit ;)

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Exactly.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Now that is a brilliant idea! :tu::tu::tu:

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Well, that assumes that the mother has observed the genitalia of the stranger. I can think of many situations where that might not occur...

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Not just that though, it warns any future partners in general, not necessarily if they have kids or whatever.

I know i wouldn't want to be with someone who'd done that, i'd rather know.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

The original point was about mothers vetting new partners, one way was police checks another was tattooing offenders ;)

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Fair enough, but what about uncles, brothers-in-law, best friends, etc. Anyway, if you had a tattoo that would be recognised, wouldn't you take steps to make sure no-one saw it (switch off the lights, darling).

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Switching the light of wouldn't protect them from a police check ;), as for friends and family, where do you draw the line with this proposal, I have already stated my concerns with the idea (post 18).

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

i hope these offenders arent members of bupa ;) http://www.bupahospitals.co.uk/asp/c...oo_removal.asp

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I suspect that they wouldn't be happy about removing these type of tattoo's, however to be on the safe side, perhaps they should be branded instead ;)

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

One would assume that if such a measure [tattoos] became law, then the removal of same would become an offense. "Aiding & abetting a sex offender" perhaps, & a tattoo of their own to accompany any other punishment [e.g. prison time]. I reckon that would be a good enough deterrent to anyone who might otherwise consider removing it for them. I doubt someone who isn't that way inclined would want to be "tarred with the same brush".

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

personally i think chemical castration is the way forward for convicted peadophiles, locking them up for the rest of thier life is a massive burden on society, cant see the death penalty being brought back in, so seems like a good compromise

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

And what about female sex offenders? should it be tattooed around their "ravioli" (!) so that the guy (or female!) could see it more moving onto anything more involved or should it be on the female genitalia also?

Would it be necessary to clip hair away (a bit like the scene in the Omen) in order to reveal the dreaded truth?

Surely this is cave man culture and it is exactly the reason why we have a structured system of law enforcement in this country-so that the baser instincts of the mob do not previal.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

And what about bothering to read the entire thread before mouthing off, seeing as I didn't actually advocate the tattooing of offenders, I am having doubts about CRB checks for parents as well, but then you'd know that if you had bothered to read the thread.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I didnt say that you had advocated tatooeing offenders ! I merely used your posting as a convenient point at which to jump in and add a further comment. As for reading the thread, Well i have not only read it regularly but I also launched it.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

I realise this topic is a bit old, but I just came across an article that seems relevant.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...632439,00.html

It's 1 thing to talk about what to do about those who get involved with illegal acts involving minors, but what about people who get arrested for 100%-legal material? The girl in question didn't start her career until just after her 20th birthday, & is now 28. Admittedly she does look younger than her years, but what happened to getting facts straight before making a case? I suppose it's possible those that have been charged, might not have known her name [making it harder for them to find out who she was to prove their innocence], but this quote from a solicitor in that article doesn't show the police in a good light:
& a quote from the same article, by the girl in question:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there aren't individuals that have genuinely commited crimes, & rightfully been imprisoned, but it makes you wonder if there are others that have been imprisoned that hadn't actually done anything wrong.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Well, it looks like they are going to trial a form of "Sarah's Law" in Cambridgeshire (and Hampshire, Cleveland and Warwickshire). See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7249043.stm

I can't see many details at the moment, but thought this comment was interesting:

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Um! http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...me-checks.html

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

This sort of sex offence is worse, than what people think, we all know, that peado's groom there prey to such a point, when they strike, there are some notoris peados in this country, and l believe about three years ago. a tv documentary, followed a police unit to actually arrest one of these, and the worse thing was you heard all the graffic details of what he wanted to do.

These people do not deserve to live in this society, they are sick, and our kids have to be protected against these people. to the strong arm of the law.

Re: Rename the British Isles, the paedoph-isles?
 

Oops! I did a thorough search of the forum, then started writing the post. Obviously I was a bit slow.

Let's see what the mods make of this!