County Court (Small Claims track)
 

My former housemates & I have been involved in a long running dispute with our lying, cheating, greedy ex-landlord, and our case against him in the County Court (small claims) is finally being heard next week.


We're claiming for the deposit (which he withheld), plus also expenses and compensation for disrepair.

He's defending the claim, and is counter-claiming for another few hundred quid or so in extra deductions & costs (on top of already withholding the whole deposit for a load of BS reasons).


Has anyone had experience with small claims cases, or with County Court hearings in general?

Any tips & advice?



:)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

I would pop to your local Citizens advice and grab any last minute tips :D

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Don't call him gov or beak. Look presentable, i.e. wear a tie. ;)

If you are not being represented by a solicitor, have someone do the talking who can think fast and not fazed by the occasion.

Make it look like you have done everything possible to solve the problem prior to going to court and have everything you may need, information wise. Take in notes.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

We've already had loads of stuff from the CAB, but cheers anyway :)



No solicitor (we did pay for a one-off consult before submitting the claim, but it's too expensive to actually retain one for the case).

I'll probably be one of the ones to do a lot of the talking, along with one of the other three.

We did everything we could to sort it prior to going to court.


Notes...We have a huge folder full of stuff :disturbd:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

good luck with it Tez :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Good luck guys - i was shafted a little while back by a dodgy landlord who didn't pay me my deposit back. Unfortunately i didn't have the 'get up and go' to do what you guys are doing.

Let us know how you get on :)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Thanks Gaz :)






Cheers :)


The four of us have pretty much written off the deposit now (we moved out at the end of January), it's become more about the principle of it now, even if he doesn't ever pay us back, we still want to beat the *******.


I just hope the Judge sees through his BS.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

That's fair enough.

Just check everything before you go, make sure that you can answer anything the DJ asks or defendant throws at you. Think of it like a job interview.

Make it sound like have tried to the DJ.


Just notes for yourself, like a history. You should have provided everything to the DJ and defendant prior to the hearing anyway.

Also, don't carry a lot of metal to the court, likes coins ;) It's a bit embarrassing holding the queue up, when you are emptying all those 1p & 2p coins into the box at the metal detectors ;)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Cheers, Mal :)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Good luck Matt. Hope it turns out OK for you.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

...and if he has counterclaimed, he is more than likely to turn up as well, as I think that he had to pay £50 to do so, so do not let him intimidate you.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Flange - Thanks :)


Mal -

Yeah, he's gonna be there, with his wife (joint Defendants / Counter-claimants).

I'm pretty sure he will try & intimidate us (the word I'd like to use to describe him isn't allowed).

We won't let him though. Hopefully.


He's an argumentative fool (as well as a liar), so I'm hoping he'll show his true colours at the hearing & the Judge will shoot him down.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Matt I used to work in a court doing witness support, and also studied law, so if you want some advice then give me a shout on msn.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

'is finally being heard next week'

its leaving it a little late but you might go pop over to the
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lords-tenants/
section and perhaps the chatroom http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

plently of people there to help you understand some of the tricks that might be played against you in court by the other side etc.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Be punctual, do not be late for your appointment. Be clean and presentable. The Usher will call your name when it is time to go into court. If you are nervous you can ask for someone else to speak for you, this is called a lay represtantive. The lay representative must first complete a form (obtained from the court counter) and hand it to the District Judge before the case commences. Be respectful to the Judge, address him/her as Sir/Madam, and do not argue with the Judge. Make sure you have all relevant documents with you and that they are in some kind of order, otherwise you might get flustered if you can't find what you are looking for. Do not raise your voice or swear. Do not interrupt. Good luck!

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Good advice there :tu: and getting flustered aside some judges don't like it if you are reading your notes and documents whilst the case is being heard, although it's fine to make notes on things you want to challenge later.

Good luck, I hope justice prevails for you :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Make sure you have a time line of the events that occurred that is easily understood at a glance. Also make sure that each event has some documentation to support it and number them the same. I.E. event 1 paperwork bundle 1.

That way if he states that X happened on Y date then you can counter it with the correct date/info and easily pass paperwork to the magistrate to corroberate your claim.

Also, don't panic, the magistrates come up against idiots like your land lord day in, day out. If you're honest and sincere (and have paper work/photos to back you up) then you'll do fine I'm sure Tez. :)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Sorry Shaun don't mean to be picky, just to clarify, there are no Magistrates in the County Court. Magistrates are in Magistrates Courts (criminal). District Judges, Circuit Judges etc., are County Court (Civil).

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Don't try to impress anyone with words like 'aforementioned' and 'herewithto' .And don't drop in legal jargon you don't understand but have heard on CSI Doncaster.

Never say 'with respect' ;)

Just speaka da Inglisha.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Pedant :p:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

There will be a duty solicitor at the court and you may use him, his fees come from the courts.
Be there an hour (or more) before you are due to appear and go find his office.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Thanks, Chris, I may take you up on that :)





Handy links, thanks :)


Ta :)

We're leaving quite a bit earlier than we need to, to make sure we still get there early even if there's bad traffic.

I've got a big black ring binder with every letter, document etc. in it, in chronological order. I also have 160 photos of the state of the house throughout the last two hellish months (major building works, disrepair, lack of facilities, & more...).




Cheers :)





Thanks :)


I have a long, detailed timeline (which has already been submitted), plus various other bits.


LOL, OK.



Handy info, thanks :)

---------- Post added at 01:50 ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 ----------

Oh, a few questions, in case anyone knows & can help:


We (& they) had a deadline of "no later than 14 days before the hearing" to submit any further documents, evidence, etc., which we wish to rely on in Court.

We submitted a few things we hadn't yet submitted back in the summer with the original claim form & particulars of claim - the photos, my timeline, & another witness statement from one of us. All in time.

The landlord & his wife then submitted "responses" to our submissions.

The response to my signed timeline did come in time, but is a string of fabrications. Is that something I can challenge?

The response to my housemate's statement came 1 day late, & is more BS. Would it still be allowed, & if so can it be challenged?

Is there any way to submit late evidence? I obtained a signed statement from a former housemate (not one a party to the claim, he lived there before the tenancy-ending problems began), supporting some things I'd mentioned as backstory, & also rebutting some of the new BS claims (& continuing BS claims) from the landlord in his recent & only-just-in-time response to my submissions. But, I didn't get it 'till last weekend, so it's too late to send off.


Oh. Crap. More questions:


Anyone actually been in a small claims hearing (or other) in a County Court? What's it actually like? Is it really daunting? What's the general sort of procedure for things?


Sorry.


Jittery.


:disturbd:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Notwithstanding..... lol, Matt try to stay calm it is not as scary as you might imagine, the only people in the Court will be the Judge and his Clerk, the Usher, and the other side and their Solicitor, if they have one. It will all be over and done with before you know it.:tu: Good luck I wish you all the best and will be interested to hear the outcome. Which County Court is it by the way?

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

My sister was a Clark at the County Court, it's not daunting, in fact it's pretty relaxed, certainly in the questioning of witnesses, bare in mind though if you win the defendant has up to 21 day's to appeal, so you might end up having to go back at a later date

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

I have gone to small claims court once. It is a relaxed process, not your criminal crown court style thing. The SCC I went to had a large conference room table and the judges desk in it. It was more of a meeting room than a court room. I sat on one long side of the desk, they sat on the other. The judge behind his desk.

He will want to know why this has come to court and why this could not be rectified beforehand. Here is where you should hopefully be seen to be the more reasonable party.

You get to present why he owes you the money back, he gets to tell the judge why he does not. The judge should have read the case file and the timline is the important part of that.

Late evidence may well be accepted, it is a more informal hearing than other courts and you can explain why this was recieved late and that it indicates a pattern of behaviour from the defendant.

Don't get flustered, if the other guy is acting all arsey and intimidating it will not help how he looks to the judge, the judge is just a guy or gal like you or I doing his job and realises that you are not legally trained.

Where he has said crazy things in his response just work through them methodically, I guess say this is my version of events, Sir have you read them, I will now go through and deal with the differences in his version of events and show where I believe his version is incorrect and where I have evidence.

I was nervous going into the case, but as others have said it is a bit like your first interview, you always have some jitters in latter interviews, but as you know the drill it is easier.

You and your mates should sit around a dining table, put one at the top, you on your side and he on his. You should present you story, you need to start with the 'lift conversation', how would you present this to the judge if you had 10 stories or 60 seconds to get him up to speed standing next to him in a lift, get to the punchline. Then elucidate. There will be minimal interuptions, he should not interupt you, the judge may stop you to seek clarification.

Since then running a small business I have used MCOL to issue a few more small claims, I have a couple more to do this week actually (non paying customers).

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

When it's a case of one word against another, it can come down simply to who sounds most convincing. If you truly believe you're in the right you should be ok, and you won't need to embellish or distort the truth to bolster your case. Just tell it how it is, quietly and politely insist on the facts and that ought to give you the best chance. I had a friend who won her case in this way after an RTA some years ago, despite the complete lack of any independent witnesses. The fact is, the other driver was in the wrong and full of BS, and she was able to simply state the truth. Judges are trained professionals, they ought to be able to spot who's really the injured party here.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

similarly my partner won an rta case, as she should have, only last week by being brutally honest. if she couldn't remember something she said so rather than bs around it. seems to have done the trick which means £400 excess recovered (yes i know, what kind of policy is that) plus refund due on premiums loaded since.

good luck with it matt. the landlord scenario sounds pretty familiar which means will be very familar to a judge. dont think i can add any advice beyond whats already been offered - lets hope the fella drops himself in it, leaving you with not much work to do :) fingers crossed for you mate.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Thanks all for the advice & support :)

Cheers.

I'm trying to stay calm, not doing a very good job at the moment though, lol.

We all met up again tonight, to go over stuff.

I'm glad it should only be both sides & the Judge etc. I think I'd be even more nervous if it was fully open to the public.


It's in High Wycombe, tomorrow. Would've been so much easier for us if it stayed in Cambridge, but apparently claims get transferred to the Defendant's local County Court if they intend to defend.




They can appeal? Damn :( . One of the things i read online said there was no automatic right of appeal, & the losing side could only appeal if there'd be an error in law or procedure.




Cheers. From what you & everyone else has said, it sounds like it hopefully shouldn't be too daunting.


I hope he does act arsey & intimidating - it wouldn't surprise me if he did, & he can get quite argumentative & angry.


Cheers.

We know we're in the right, plus the CAB, the Council's Tenancy Relations Office, & a solicitor have all previously told us we're in the right.

Some of it will simply be our word against theirs, & they seem quite happy to blatantly lie, going by their previous signed submissions.


I hope the Judge will have read everything beforehand - there's an awful lot of paperwork for him/her to go through :disturbd:




Thanks. Hopefully the Judge will have common sense, and hopefully will be able to see through the other side's BS.



Anyway. Tomorrow morning, let Justice prevail...


I'll be back with the verdict... :erm:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A1183448#5

Hope it all works out for you ;)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Hmm.


But

http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/law/smallclaimscourt.shtml

and

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/...ms.htm#Appeals



:confused:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Crikey, I ask my sister what normally happens

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Cool, thanks.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

tez - go to bed, que sera sera, you will have done your best :)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Cheers, Gaz :)


Time for bed. Gotta get up bright & early.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

absolutely, thoughts are with you :)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Good luck. I'm sure you'll do fine :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

whenever you speak - no matter who asks you the question always address your answer to the judge. make sure you stand when they enter and stand when they leave. don't leve before them and thank them for and thing they say such as 'please sit'
you should call the judge 'your honor'

hope this helps, and good luck. most judges are really nice and as long as you are polite and present yourself well you should be fine.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Matt good luck for today. If my memory serves me correctly District Judges should be addressed as Sir/Madam, it will almost certainly be a District Judge you will have, Circuit Judges are Your Honour. If they want to appeal (but that is jumping the gun) and (once again from memory) they must first apply for 'leave to appeal' and there are only 2 grounds for appeal, i.e. a point of law or the Judge was biased against them. Deep breaths now..........

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Judgement Day.... postponed :mad: :mad: :mad:


Three bloody hours driving to High Wycombe, one hour in the waiting room as the Court was running really late (for some reason there were three other cases all with the same allotted start time as ours, despite there being only two District Judges), & then when we finally got to see the District Judge (who did seem quite nice & not scary), he said that he's sorry but it's going to have to be delayed.

Too much documentation for him to read beforehand, apparently, & too small a time slot for the hearing (it was meant to be slotted in for 1 1/2 hours, he said he thought it would need more like 2 1/2 hours, the lateness meant it wouldn't even have had the 1 1/2 hours).


I fail to understand why the Court could not have figured this out *before* the date of the hearing, thus saving my ex-housemates & I a complete & utter waste of a day.

What's the point in having deadlines to submit things, if the DJ doesn't actually look at anything until a few minutes before you get called in?


The Defendants were rather amusing though, in an annoying way. We can see what they'll be like at the real thing now.

The delay is good for them, unfortunately. They haven't lost any money - they still have ours!

Whereas, after having all moved out at the end of January 2006, we have still not got our deposits, nor any compensation for the disrepair & other stuff, plus have shelled out for all the various court fees etc., and now, will have to wait until at least January '07, probably February '07, for the real final hearing (the Defendants are away Dec-Jan, apparently).

The Defendants also delayed the whole process earlier in the summer (conveniently around the time they sold the house) - they got a 1 month extension to the filing of the allocation questionnaire, plus then it got delayed again 'cos of the location transfer.

Agh :mad:


Also, having spent a few hours in High Wycombe, & having spent time wandering around the town after the non-hearing looking for somewhere for lunch, I would just like to quote Obi-Wan Kenobi - "You'll never find a more wretched hive of **** & villainy". Really. It was awful. (No offence to any HW residents here at CF if there are any).

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

It wont be wasted money - you must now include the cost of today as part of your court fees.
Just have the receipts to hand over to the court with you when you do win.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Judgment day postponed... :mad::mad::mad:

Oh how annoying was that? Sorry the DJ didn't have time enough for your case to be heard, this is not unusual and is no ones fault, as some cases are more complicated than first expected. Better luck for your new hearing date, least you have some idea of the set up now and won't be quite so nervous, when next you have to attend Court. Once again good luck! :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Can you not ask for it to be transferred to your local CC now?

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

The ex-housemate who did the driving asked at the Court office, & they said he just has to write in to claim the travel money back.


It was exceedingly annoying :mad: :(


Cheers :) . Like you said, we have more of an idea of what it will be like now.


The District Judge suggested having it transferred to somewhere roughly halfway between High Wycombe & Cambridge, but the Defendants said there was no way they could go to a hearing outside High Wycombe, so it's gonna still be in High Wycombe next time (they have kids, & say they can't travel to Cambridge for a court hearing as they have noone to look after the kids........ even though, when they started the building work etc a year ago, they would both come to Cambridge from HW each weekend to do the building work etc themselves, so must have had someone to look after the kids then, apart from a couple of weekends when they brought the annoying messy brats with them).

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Make sure you push this at the nest hearing. They're being totaly unreasonable.

Do they know that if it was moved they'd loose if they didn't turn up. Hmmm, maybe that would be the best thing :erm:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Yeah. Hell, they've been totally unreasonable for the past year.


I'd love it if they didn't turn up. Probably unlikely though, especially as it's gonna stay in their horrible town.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

I think of you when i watch 'Jag' now, Tez, sad, isn't it ;)

- and even horrible towns may have nice bits, Grimsby has Cleethorpes, for example ;) :erm:

hides

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

You have obviously never been to Port Talbot then.
And before a forum member from that horrible little town has a go, I was born there, and deliver food there in my spare time, so I know where of I speak.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

I've never been to P'Talbot myself. But I have been to Swansea. :erm:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

You can appeal any verdict, unless the judge actually say's 'there is no right of appeal on this case', normally you have 21 days to appeal, although in certain cases you can get 28 days ;)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Not on Small claims track.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

JAG? LOL.

I keep thinking of the "truth handling" lines from A Few Good Men (or the Simpsons parody).



Appeals -

Hmm. I guess we'll just find out at the hearing. I'm sure the DJ will explain it.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

There is no formal appeals procedure see:-

www.bbc.co.uk/crime/law/smallclaimscourt.shtml

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Well, later this week sees what should hopefully be the actual, full, final hearing...

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Good luck Matt, you have one thing on your side and that is the truth, there are many greedy landlords out there who'll stop at nothing in gaining that extra ££Ã ¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£. Good luck in court mate keep us posted on how things go.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Good luck once again, I am sure they will reach the right verdict this time :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Good luck, Matt - let us know how you get on, please.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Cheers :)

I'll post the verdict tomorrow.... :erm:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

I'm late to this thread, but would just like to add a little if poss. Apologies if any of this is repeated.

Small Claims Court is nothing to worry about. It's part of my job, and I was in one two days ago!

First, it will probably be a district judge, especially in High Wycombe (yes it is a s***hole). Secondly, both parties get a chance to state their case, and to question the other side. Third, you will only be allowed to produce evidence alresdy submitted.

Now, not everyone will be allowed to speak. This depends on who brought the claim (did one person do it, or was it in all of your names?). The DJ will only allow someone to represent you if it's been previously requested - it's called a Mackenzie Friend.

When giving your side, just be calm and clear, not getting emotional or personal. Stick to facts, and focus on those that you can support with evidence. Do this often. When hearing their side, don't butt in, but make notes and wait till your turn. At the end of their story, you get a chance to ask questions. Again, don't get nasty, but do your best to focus on the points where they can't offer evidence, or where they may trip themselves up.

When the judge gives his verdict, you may decide you wish to appeal - hopefully it won't be necessary. You will need a reason, such as additional evidence. If you win, then you list the extras that you wish to be reimbursed - travel costs, parking etc.

That's about it. Good luck! If you need any advice or info, feel free to PM me. I'll helpp all I can.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

How did it go then? :disturbd:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Probably out celebrating ;)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

So, we went to High Wycombe again today, for the re-scheduled hearing.

Left early, due to worries about the roads & the traffic, although we actually made very good time, & got there quicker than last time (took us ~2hours to get there today, a little less on the way back).


Got to Court, & found we had a different District Judge to last time - a woman, who had actually taken the time to read everything beforehand (unlike the previous DJ, who seemed to effectively go "Oh no! There's too much paperwork! It has to be re-scheduled!", back in November).


The DJ reminded me of Judge Judy. No nonsense, cut through the BS, straight to the point.


And she'd made her mind up before we even got in there...



Judge Judy - "I've had some time already to read through all the paperwork from both sides, & it seems to me that the claim & counter-claim have drifted from the core issue - the (non) return of the Claimants' deposit.

The main thing as I see it is Mr Landlord's letter to the Claimants of 19th January 2006, in which he told them that if they moved out by 31st January 2006 their deposit would be returned in full; and the Claimants' subsequent acceptance of these 'walkout terms'. This constituted a contract, and the deposit should have been returned. Everything else is irrelevant.

Mr Landlord, you cannot counter-claim, or make deductions. You had a contract with the Claimants, & they did their part of it, so you should have returned their money. The state of the house is not an issue. Deductions & charges cannot be made for alleged dirtiness, breakages, etc., when the Claimants were clearly living in what was effectively a building site, according to the photographs, and according to statements from various official independent witnesses such as the police (1), Transco & the HSE (2), The City Council's Environmental Health Dept (3), etc.

Claimants, you cannot claim for anything else, as you accepted Mr Landlord's 'walkout terms' without putting any kind of 'without prejudice' caveat in your reply to him. If you do want to still claim further damages, it then potentially opens the door for Mr Landlord's counter-claim."

Mr Landlord - "But..."

Judge Judy - "No. There is no defence. You must return the deposit."

Mr Landlord - "The wording of my letter though....surely, the spirit of the law......"

Judge Judy - "No. There is no defence. I am ordering that the Claimants' deposit be returned in full, within 14 days, together with £x statutory 8% interest, £y court fees, and £z travel costs for coming to High Wycombe & back."

Mr Landlord - "What about my record?"

Judge Judy - "If you pay within 14 days, then you will not get anything on your record. If you fail to pay, however, then you will have a County Court Judgement (CCJ) against you, plus the Claimants could also then apply to have enforcement proceedings issued against you for not paying."


Us (outside court) - "YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Whole thing took ~10 minutes, rather than the two hours the previous DJ said it would take.


WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:

:cleader: :cleader: :cleader: :cleader:


------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) "Mr Landlord" got the police involved, just before we moved out. He falsely claimed that we stole some drill bits & a tile cutter. Why we'd feel the need to do that, I do not understand. He also falsely accused us of criminal damage, as the replacement bathroom window he fitted cracked one day while we were all out at work. The local neighbourhood PC came round on the 31st January 2006, while I was in the process of moving out & loading the van, so I showed him round the "house", & told him the whole story. He said he thought Mr Landlord's accusations were "a load of bullcrap". Mr Landlord wrote to the police, afterwards, asking about their investigation. The local PC replied, saying that we were not suspects, that the case had been filed, plus said "the house looked like a building site". Mr Landlord included the PC's letter to him in his "Defence Pack" submission.

(2) Reports from visits they made due to the gas boiler fiasco.

(3) Reports from a visit they made at our request to investigate/inspect the general state of the "house".

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Congratulations!!!!! :beer: I've been to court over issues with landlords, and I've won, so I know the feeling. Well done! :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Nice one! :D :beer:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Congrats mate - glad to see the system works :)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Cheers all :D


British Justice has prevailed :)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Can he appeal?

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think so.


From the sound of him, I think he'll pay up as he seemed worried about getting a CCJ.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

That's good then, mind you Russ does assassinations for a price, however you might get a discount! ;)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Yay! :beer:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Well done :tu:, they got there in the end

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Well done, Matt.

Bet you're glad that's over and done with.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Congrats.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Result! I always tell people it's worth trying... small claims can often swing your way much easier than you realise. This is partly because people go into court to defend, full of loads of waffle (which they see as relevant), and think that it will make the judge decide in their favour. What they fail to see is that pure emotion and indignance doesn't make them "right". I was in court the other day, and was chatting to a guy in the waiting area... he had a case where the defendant sat before the judge and opened up with "I know I don't have a legal right, but I do have a moral one...". Game over.

Anyway, well done on the victory!!!

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Nice one Tez - I bet that is a huge load of your mind, I'll lift a glass to toast your victory, soon - you have one, too :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Well done. :) :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Cheers, all :)


Very glad it's all over & done with! :)

It's been just over a year now (!) since my ex-housemates & I moved out of that hell-hole & that <insert extremely rude word here> withheld our deposit.

Just got to wait for him to pay up now, but like I said above, I think (hope) he will as he sounded worried about getting a CCJ (plus if he didn't pay, we'd just presumably be able to go back & get an order to get his salary garnished, or bailiffs sent in, or whatever).


@ me283 - yeah. He bombarded us & the court with so much stuff, so much paperwork, & it was all crap. Heh, and I had to stop myself laughing in the hearing when he tried telling the *Judge* about "the spirit of the law" lol. So surprised at how quick it was - the 1st DJ said 2 hours at least (hence the delay & re-schedule), this one had made her mind up before we got in there, & we were in & out in 10 mins.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Yep, County Court can be fun!

Re: him not paying, there are many things you can do. Most people opt for a warrant of execution, which means a bailiff knocking on the door. Sadly these days, a lot of debtors know how to "play the game", rendering bailiffs fairly powerless. You could try using a High Court Enforcement Officer, depending on the value though, as they will try a little harder.

Another method, which could be easier in this case, is the garnishee. These days it's called a Third Party Debt Order, and it would be useful to you in many ways. I assume you know the landlord's bank details, so you can effectively get the full debt paid from their bank; but what a lot of people don't realise is that you can garnishee not just the bank, but ANYONE who owes the landlord money. So, if he has new tenants, you just garnishee them instead - so the rent gets paid to you instead of the landlord. And here's another bonus - if you go for his bank account, the bank usually charge him a hefty admin fee too.

Another method would be a Land Registry Charging Order, but these can be costly and time-consuming. Depending on the value of the debt, you could also apply for bankruptcy - again, this can be costly and time-consuming.

One of my favourites at the moment though, is the Oral Examination. Basically, the bailiff will serve an order on the landlord, telling him to attend Court for questioning. He will have to answer q list of detailed questions about assets, income and outgoings, and other stuff, plus any questions that you may wish to add to the list. He will also have to bring evidence in support, such as bank statements, payslips etc. Cheekily, he can actually ask you to pay his expenses for travelling to the Court, but here's the beauty - if he doesn't keep the appointment at the Court, a warrant for his arrest can be issued. When he is arrested, he will be taken to Court for the questioning... unless it's outside Court hours, in which case he gets locked up overnight, or for the weekend. Lovely thought, eh?

I should add, for all of these things there is a fee to pay, However, whatever you pay out gets added to what the Court try to recover from him. Most of the forms are available online, along with guidance. Feel free to to PM me if I can help at all. Good luck! :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

If this deposit is over 750 you can just petition for bankrupcy. That normally hurries payment up.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

It means stumping up quite a bit of cash first though. But you are right, it does seem to wake people up!

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Thanks for the info :tu: :)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

You're welcome. Good luck :tu:

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

I have a success story to share...

My wife an I ordered a new white bathroom suite from Wickes to replace the avacado green we had grown a little tired of. The suite was delivered by Mark Two Distributors, and arrived as scheduled. The packaging gave no indication of the contents (not even a bar code), but as far as we could see everything looked OK. The plumber arrived the next day to fit the suite, but found that the cistern was from a different range and would not fit. So, we contacted Mark Two and a replacement cistern was sent the following week. The plumber came again and fitted the correct cistern. All was well.

The plumber presented us with a bill for the extra day of work (£120). No problem, we thought, we can claim the money back from Mark Two as they were responsible for the extra expense. Ha ha, what a joke!

Several calls to the "help" desk and two cheques later (one for £25, one for £50, both of which we refused) we reached a brick wall. So, we logged on to www.moneyclaim.gov.uk , entered a few simple details, and paid a £25 fee.

In a couple of days a manager from the help desk called to offer us a full refund, including the £25 fee, provided that we dropped the claim. The cheque for £145 arrived this morning and the claim was dropped this afternoon. At last, everyone is happy.

Having gone through this little experience, I would offer the following advice:

- Only put in a claim if you are sure you are in the right and you have already made several attempts to get the money.

- Don't be fobbed off by "help" desk script readers.

- Don't let it get personal. We were tempted to ask for money for "inconvenience" (no pun intended), but decided to keep the claim to the plumber's invoice.

Finally, even though it is a very small victory, it is still a victory. And it feels good!

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

I see one error in your success story Norm. You say "at last, everyone is happy",
I can't think of one company manager who is probably not.

Anyway congratulations. It shows what can be achieved with the proper threats.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Funny you should say that. When the manager phoned with the "full and final offer", my wife (who took the call) said the manager seemed a bit surprised that we were willing to accept it. We think they were expecting us to ask for some more money on top.

Anyway, thanks.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Well done, l would like to ad a few pointers, what we have in this day and age, is that many large companies, think that the customer is stupid, and that by using threats, they can get away with you, my solution is this, if you get no satisfaction from the so called customer service, write directly to the MD of the company, they don't like that. or the Omsbudman office, they hate that.

A few years ago, there was a programme on BBC, called ' what you didn't know, something on those lines, about bailiffs, and the one thing that came up was, when they knock at your door, UNLESS THEY HAVE A COURT ORDER, they cannot touch property, and you don't let them in the house, or touch property outside your house, but there again, if you have let it gone that far, then it would be a court order. hope that helps.;)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Well done, l would like to ad a few pointers, what we have in this day and age, is that many large companies, think that the customer is stupid, and that by using threats, they can get away with you, my solution is this, if you get no satisfaction from the so called customer service, write directly to the MD of the company, they don't like that. or the Omsbudman office, they hate that.

A few years ago, there was a programme on BBC, called ' what you didn't know, something on those lines, about bailiffs, and the one thing that came up was, when they knock at your door, UNLESS THEY HAVE A COURT ORDER, they cannot touch property, and you don't let them in the house, or touch property outside your house, but there again, if you have let it gone that far, then it would be a court order. hope that helps.;)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Must have had radishes for his tea - he's repeating...... ;)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Its Saturday, l pressed the wrong key (this must be the shortest, comment l've' made) -hic.:)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Yes, so any creditor sending a notice of doorstep collection is just sending an empty threat. They cannot do that.

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Thanks, but it gets better!

I cancelled the claim made through the county court via the website, because (i) the claim was opened this way, and (ii) the county court "helpline" had closed at 4pm.

As far as I could see, the only suitable option was "accept full payment and enter judgement", or words to that effect. The website seemed happy, and I thought that was the end of the matter.

A few days later an irate manager from Mark Two phoned to say that they had been "blacklisted" by credit reference agencies because of the county court judgement against them! I explained what had happened, then phoned the county court helpdesk (this is the correct procedure, apparently), then phoned the manager, who eventually calmed down.

Well, there must be a flaw in the system if it lets an individual have such a dramatic affect on a company! With just a few clicks of a mouse!!

Hopefully this really is the end of the matter!

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

Hi SMHarman, just seen your comment, When you get 'doorstep collection' they still have to abide by the law, and some of these evil doorstep collectors, can be exrtremely nasty, with threats of every nature, a county court official will have proper ID, and still you can still stop him entering your property WITHOUT a court order, in this day and age, county court actions, are that they can be dealt with, without problems, but if you get DC's, they will take court action, over nothing, as they get the money from you.

Under the Harrassement Act, you are not allowed to be pestered by people, unless it has been dealt with by a court of law.:)

Re: County Court (Small Claims track)
 

http://www.fool.co.uk/news/get-out-o...do-to-you.aspx
Sums it up better that I (and possibly you) can.