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BBC
Well, I'm sure they didn't mean to kill him..... :dozey:

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How can anyone do something like that, a terrible way to go R.I.P. Kriss

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particularly brutal. horrible.

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From what has been said on the news, the lad had nothing to do with the earlier assault that took place which caused the Asian lads to go in search of a target and the 3 lads just grabbed the first white male that they saw. Bl**dy disgusting behaviour to be honest and it's been reported that the 3 Asians have been causing trouble in the local community for years :(

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It will be interesting to see what the minimum term before parole will be. 35-40 years going on past experience, and pretty well deserved given the facts of the case.

I reserve the right to make a comparison between three non-terrorist Asians who actually did brutally murder someone and then denied it and the Bhorat case yesterday where he only fantasised about it and then pleaded guilty. Since they'll get about the same punishment this will again show up the ludicrously over-the-top nature of the Bhorat case.

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From the BBC news website -

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How can you compare the case where one poor soul was murdered with a case where if he had been left to carry out his plans, hundreds of poor souls would have been murdered?
If only the police had been able to stumble across their plan to murder Kriss (I know it was impossible), like they have been with Bhorat, just think of the lives they saved there.

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with my diplomatic corps hat on i can see the point bb is making (and the socio-politico-legal background against which it is set) but nothing can really detract from the horrific nature of this particular crime.

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to be fair they did kill someone whereas the other fella intended too. but i think we're a bit sidetracked here ;-)

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"The 15-year-old schoolboy was snatched in Pollokshields, stabbed and then set on fire in March 2004."

Dear God... Where does this type of anger and hatred come from?!

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"a random act of racially motivated revenge" apparently. revenge for what? no-one deserves to die in that way.

drawing what little positives you can from this, the police seem to have got a lot of co-operation with their investigation: "Asst Ch Const John Malcolm, of Strathclyde Police said: ......."It is also important to acknowledge the support of the broader community.
"Everyone came together to support and inform our investigation, and through these actions, the community made it very clear that this sort of violence is unacceptable and will not be tolerated in any community

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I'd hang em.

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please no, not another death penalty debate ;-)

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LOL... No debate about it! :rolleyes:

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You're right :D

Seeing as Capital Punishment was abolished in 1969 (73 in NI), and Jack Straw signed the 6th protocol of the European Convention of Human Rights in Strasbourg in 1999 - this move formally abolished the death penalty in the UK.

In fact, at the last debate about it in the House of Commons in 1994, MPs voted 363 to 186 against its return for people who had murdered a policeman, and voted 403 to 159 against introduction of capital punishment for all murderers.

So, as you said - no debate about it! :D

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I can see the point BB is making, and with this it does make it all fit into place.

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Definitions of fantasy -

1. An imagined event or sequence of mental images, such as a daydream, usually fulfilling a wish or psychological need.
2. An unrealistic or improbable supposition.

Then we have the Guardian report -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/...941586,00.html

"Barot carried out extensive research and planning for the attacks, including reconnaissance visits to the US, use of the internet and visits to public and specialist libraries.
He wrote detailed documents on planned attacks in both countries, discovered on computer hard drives following his arrest in August 2004. Handwritten notes referring to chemical mixtures were also recovered. In the "gas limos project" document, recovered from a laptop during a counter terrorist operation in Gujrat, Pakistan, Barot wrote of the pandemonium that could be caused by a bomb exploding on a tube train travelling under the Thames."

"It is plainly a presentation for the consideration of the al-Qaida leadership in Pakistan for approval and funding for plans to acquire explosives, hazardous, radioactive, inflammable material for use in co-ordinated terrorist attacks," he added.
The gas limo blasts were to have been launched simultaneously with other attacks including a dirty bomb, an attack on trains and the hijacking of petrol tankers to ram into a target."

Seems a lot of hard work just for a "fantasy"?

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:p:

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can't trust that pinko rag the guardian though. we all know that :-)

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Hopefully they never see freedom again.

Evil beyond words.

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or it's fellow-traveller readers ;)

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It comes from Pakistan.

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where were these people born?

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erm :erm: - the killers came from Glasgow and Huddersfield, actually.

Here's an interesting link - the story of how they were captured
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6125660.stm
Faisal Mushtaq and Zeeshan Shahid hid out in a small village 10 miles from Tobateksingh called village 348. They must have thought nobody but nobody would find them there. They were wrong.
Of course what the two did not know was that their local MP Mohammed Sarwar hails from Tobateksingh so it wasn't long before he knew where they were.

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are they on the axis of evil? ;)

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more like the camshaft of naughtiness!

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care to explain your comment escapee?

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Maddrasses in Pakistan have been found to teach anti european hatred and death, and there is some what of a "life is cheap" culture with honour killings and infanticide of girls.

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any suggestion of that happening here? im not going to defend these people. its an awful awful crime. but im not sure the country of their parents origin has anything to do with this. when its a white on asian/black attack do we suggest that evil comes from the uk?

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None of them were especially devout Muslims. The main reason they went out looking for a white boy to attack was one of them got a kicking outside a nightclub.

Drinking and mixing with women is hardly the thing males who attended Maddrasses is likely to get up to.

They were thugs pure and simple. Kris was in the wrong place in the company of the wrong person at the wrong time. If it wasn't him someone else would have got it.

One of them had two convictions for serious assaults which should really have been attempted murder (definately for the 1st one)

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Mostly yes, don't people say the BNP for instance are evil and racist?

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do they say the bnp are evil because they come from the uk?
the comment that evil came from pakistan doesnt seem to have been substantiated. given that the local mp, of pakistani descent, was crucial to the arrest of these three it could be said that good comes from pakistan. it gets really confusing when you look at the praise given to all communities in pollokshields which means good comes from wherever all those communities originally derived. i hope that demonstrates the nonsense of the comment that remains unexplained - far be it from me to suggest an agenda was being pushed though ;-).

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An agenda? Shirley not? ;)

Although, if their ancestry is pakistani, then to say that the evil came from pakistan isn't untrue.
Just as I came all the way from Saxony through my ancestry to be here today, they came all the way from pakistan through their ancestry to get to where they are (facing life in prison).
Now, who'd like to borrow my forum crowbar next until Escapee comes back to justify his comment (although as other members have yet to justify their comments in threads they've started and instead tried to hijack this one, I suppose it's normal to say things and not back them up).

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they didnt but is untrue anyway. if they had come from pakistan it was them that came, not the notion of evil which can or cannot exist in anyone regrdless of their origin. not for me though ;-)

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Most convicted paedos, child abductors, molestors, rapists, etc etc seem to be English, born and bred here, as are there parents. Is it fair to say that such evil vileness comes from England, something inherent in forthcoming english generations?

I think not, which is why the comment about Pakistan is unwarranted and to be frank an offensive to teh majority of Pakistanis living in the UK.

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When it's directed at those that committed the crimes and they are of English ancestry, yes, as that's where they came from ;)

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Phew, lucky for my kids I'm from Glasgow, then :D - even they they are born in England.

If they do anything bad/evil, everyone can say about them "bloody Jocks, coming over/down here, stealing all our women/jobs/internet forums, with their different ways".;)

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give the man a rep even though he forgot scrounging all our benefits and nicking all the irn bru;) :)

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be grateful you don't come from sunderland if your place of residence or descent has any bearing on your character http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/6132140.stm ouch.

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Maccams! tchhhhhhh! - not too far from the :monkey: hangers :D

From the article
"He suffered a scorched colon and is now recovering in hospital"
He'll be giving curries a miss for the next couple of weeks, then?

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My comments stem from the number of terrorists in Pakistan, the number of would be/dead and captured terrorists with links to Pakistan, the Pakistani governments feeble attempts to put a stop to them, and of course not to mention (I know its not allowed) my personal experiences.

I believe Pakistan has a dislike for the west, and I believe their government are only assisting with a token gesture of capturing or killing terrorists because they are gaining a lot of free technology supplied by the west by staying on good terms. A lot of technology is being shipped to Pakistan to assist with their intelligence efforts, and you can bet they are not paying for it.

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They are paying for it
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6132582.stm

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if we accept what you say what precisely does that have to do with this case?

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We musn't judge by our own standards though, life is cheap in many of these countries.

The Pakistani government have probably taken a calculated gamble assisting the west, they are gaining technology for free. I am however sure they are also keen to finally have an excuse to deal with these terrorists that they turned a blind eye to for so long.

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I noted in your earlier post you stated "My comments stem from the number of terrorists in Pakistan, the number of would be/dead and captured terrorists with links to Pakistan, the Pakistani governments feeble attempts to put a stop to them, and of course not to mention (I know its not allowed) my personal experiences."

I think we would all be interested in your personal experiences with terrorists and the Pakistan government - please enlighten us.

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alternatively you could explain precisely wot pakistani terrorism has to do with this case?

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My personal experience of the pakistani's that I have come into contact with, have nothing to do with them being terrorists but everything to do with them segregating themsleves. My limited experiences of Pakistan government agencies are obviously not up for discussion.

You cannot stop people having their own opinion, and you cannot expect people to ignore their own experiences. If someone based an opinion on meeting one person from country x that would be silly, but while I have no problem per se with someone in the category of Muslim or the category of Asian, I do not include the pakistani's that I have met in that group, and I certainly dont understand why they dislike the UK and the west in general.

A lot of hatred stems from Pakistan, that will always be my opinion until we see an end to the terrorist links with that country and their attitude towards us.

"Life is cheap" means these countries are used to people being killed, that's not trivialising it on my part but it gets to a point where is becomes a little more acceptable.

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i cant see how any of this has ramble has anything to do with this case and the suggestion that the evil demonstrated "came from Pakistan" is baseless, pathetic and sadly both revealing and predictable.

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So you're saying that while asians and muslims are ok, pakistanis that you have met (in UK I assume) dislike the UK and the West in general, using that to base your assumtion on an entire race/country.

How do you tell the different between a Pakistani asian and a non pakistani asian in the streets of the UK. Do all the Pakistanis wear a "I hate The West" teeshirt? I was just wondering because i see a lot of Pakistanis contributing a lot to the UK and integrating across all walks of life.

I think your argument is pathetic mate.

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astonishing how bad escapees experiences with pakistanis (oh and east europeans....) are compared to mine - well to me at least.. astonishing too how his argument fails to acknowledge the help given to the police by all communities in bringing this trio to justice, including that of the local mp who is of course of pakistani descent. still lets not let the facts get in the way of a good and deeply rooted prejudice eh?

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Personally i hope these 3 get exactly what they done to the 15 yr old.
stabbed repeatedly for 4 hours, petrol poured over them, then set alight, in jail.

sorry, but this crime was horrific and to lie and leave the country to get away with it is absurd.

mind you, being the used rent boys in jail would be funnier to.

ik

p.s. they probably have satelite tv and all the sports and movies they want in jail

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I have no idea how to tell the difference between a Pakistani asian or a non-oakistani asian in the street of the UK, I have never claimed to be able to do so.

I can only base my opinion after working with a fair number of Pakistani contractors and Indian ciontractors in my last job, I also worked with a small number of permanent employees from these countries.

The Indians I worked with were very friendly and very helpful and were part of the team, whilst the pakistanis were very secretive and would not work as the team. They would without fail go off sick if there was any physical work to be done, would not pass on any knowledge and would never go looking for work when they had finished their allocated work. And under no circumstances would they work overtime, one would only work 30 hours a week for "religious reasons" That's why I believe religion should be banned as an excuse in the workplace, there is always someone who will use it to their advantage.

I have worked with people from many different countries, but the pakistanis who happened to follow Islam were the only ones I failed to get on with. There was just no way any of us could strike up a conversation with them, lunchtime they would dissapear as if it was a way to get away from us.

And no, none of us originally treated them any differently to the rest of the team, they made themselves different. (That I believe is the big problem)

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Bit of a mega bump but :mad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-34527215

Putting him back in the general prison population would sort out his moaning fairly quickly.

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They will be queuing outside the shower waiting for him :LOL:

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All that soap on the floor. :D