School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

http://www.tes.co.uk/2295738

This school has come up with a great alternative......

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Anyone care to explain to me the difference bewteen being forced to wear a scarf when it's not your religion, and being asked NOT to wear one when it is? :rolleyes:

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

well there you go just shows up what its really like. We ie white british have to be PC or all hell breaks loose.Just look at Jack Straws statements and what happened.Now we have a school who wants to force others to do there thing.Talk about inbalance

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Any school which receives state funding shouldn't enforce religious clothing, it should ban it. France have the right idea.

---------- Post added at 13:21 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

Because one is being forced and one is being asked?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I wonder how long it will be before a "human rights" court case evolves out of this?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I think what the school is saying that head scarves are part of their school uniform. It's their strict uniform policy.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

It's undeniably suggestive of religion, and one in particular. It is against the very purpose of a uniform, to give the impression of equality.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

im shocked. and look this dorset school also has headwear as part of its uniform. that poor boy. www.fernfirst.dorset.sch.uk/prospectus/uniform.htm

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

:shocked: Crazy world, this PC stuff has gone too far.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

But there are plenty of state schools that have a strict uniform policy which doesn't include any form of head dress/hats etc, yet allow head scarfs to be worn for religious/cultural reasons in the name of diversity. So, therefore the reverse should also be allowed, especially as they are funded by the taxpayer.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

and c of e schools which have muslim pupils attend religious assemblies and services hosted by the church with which they are allied? this, incidentally, something which muslim pupils and parents accept without complaint.

but the key issue for me is the government's insistence on closing established schools and replacing them with academies which are invariably co-funded by religious groups - mainly christian. i personally would like to see an end to faith schools and an even greater emphasis in the curriculum on religions and allied cultural issues so that we can foster mutual respect between those of different faiths and those with no faith.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Yes, but the head scarf is not a more-or-less neutral piece of clothing like a grey skirt or black shoes. It has explicit religious significance. It's difficult to find an exact analogy but I think it's not unlike a Catholic school compelling everyone to wear a crucifix. You can imagine the uproar were a muslim pupil at such a school to be required to do this.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Its an Islamic Faith school who's religion asks women to cover their heads. Its the school uniform. I was "forced" to wear a tie for about 6 years, oh and shorts in summer too. It happens in all schools with a uniform.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

It's an Islamic faith school that was built with £15 million of taxpayers' money. I am all for religious schools being able to decide exactly who they admit, what they teach and what they wear, but not when they are part of the public, state-funded network that we all pay for and have the right to send our children to.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

My primary school was Church Of England, and I'd say just in our year the percentage of muslim pupils was a minimum 15-20%. We went to church every week, sang 'christian' songs in assembly, partcipated in harvest and productions of Navity plays at xmas, all without complaint from either the pupils or the parents.

This school in question is a muslim faith school with rules regarding uniform. A non muslim choosing to attend the school for whatever reason will be aware of these rules at time of application.

I was reading something recently about how a lot of non muslims wish to send their children to muslim schools because of the success of students in the national curriculum subjects. Well if you want to do that fair play, but while your their you should be subject to the same rules regarding uniform.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Parents have always had the right to opt their children out of any religious observance at any state school. I'm surprised you're unaware of this. Any muslim children who attend Christian assemblies at C of E schools, do so because their parents chose not to use that right.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

they have to wear boaters at harrow
The best-known public example of Harrow tradition is probably the Harrow hat, which resembles a boater in materials and shape. This hat is worn to all lessons except in the late afternoon. Weekday dress consists of a white shirt, black tie, grey trousers, blue jumper and a bluer (see below). Sunday dress consists of a black evening tailcoat, pinstriped trousers, a black waistcoat, black tie and a white shirt. Variations include a grey waistcoat for those in the top sports teams, a hat with black speckles for boys in the top cricket team, and various society ties worn to meetings of the respective societies. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrow_school#Uniform


strikes me the boater carries its own cultural connotations

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I just don't think the 'you don't like it, you don't come here' argument holds any water in a state-built and funded school. Especially when much of the Government's spin about parents being able to choose where their children are schooled remains largely a myth. State funded schools should be sensitive to their local community, which includes the 10% non-muslim pupil population they will have.

A variation on the uniform for non-muslims is not unreasonable in the slightest. Many non-muslim state schools have accepted variations on their uniforms in case a muslim does want to wear the veil. This seems to me to be a far more inclusive and tolerant way to behave. Or is inclusivity and tolerance only required when it is exercised towards minority groups?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

The same should apply to all faith schools (state funded) irregardless of the religion they follow then. So lets ban the choirs at christmas, church ceremonies harvest, morning prayers, etc etc on teh same grounds.

Every school nowadays seem to have some form of selection policy, and most if not all have rules regarding uniform/jewellery/attendance/subjects etc etc. Surely when you apply to send your kids to any school (faith or non faith thats state funded ) there are conditions which you have to adhere to.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

What's that, surely not a straw maan blowing in the wind? :dozey:

Harrow is an entirely private enterprise with no state funding. You pays your money, you takes your choice. If you don't like the symbolism of the Harrow Hat, send your kids to a Montessori school instead.

This is not even remotely comparable with the matter under discussion.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

all fine and dandy if pupils have the choice to attend a local school not alliued to a faith group. that is most definitely not always the case. like i say i would like to see faith schools abolished in favour of comprehensive education that embraces and respects all faiths and none.

still, good to see yet another thread arrive that will no doubt descend into the usual muslim battering. theres a prize for the first person to use the word "pandering" ;-) :-)

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Thats what happened back when I was in school. There were a few children who were Muslims, and they used to sit in a classroom near the hall. When the 'religious' side was over, a teacher would then call them in for announcements etc.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Pandering.

Whats the prize?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

No, let's not ban anything. I don't think the scarf should be banned from this school's dress code. But I do think some folks need to stop being dishonest about it, acknowledge it is an overtly religious symbol, and allow a reasonable variation in the uniform for those who choose not to wear it.

In precisely the same way as C of E schools are not permitted to mandate attendance at their own religious activities.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

academies are funded by state and church. they are "independent state schools" "sponsored and managed by independent sponsors" (which include private schools incidentally). they may not be fee paying but they enjoy relative autonomy from the local education authority so i think the analogy stands up pretty well.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

It's not about 'pandering', it's about the sheer hypocrisy of it all. Jack Straw asks (asks!!!! Not demands!!!!) muslim women to remove their scarves when talking to him in his surgery and there's outrage and uproar. Yet a Muslim faith (yet state funded) school demands that all female students wear a head scarf. And worst of all, under the guise that it's uniform ie **** all to do with their faith, which it blatantly is.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

one week's free cultural diversity training :-)

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Really? OK then, so could you demonstrate how Harrow has benefited from taxpayers' money to the tune of anything like £15 million, as was spent in Leicester?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

But you inclusion of Harrow is not. To send a child to Harrow, you're looking a t the best part of £20k to send them there, so therefore you'll be accepting the culture, climate/conditions that your child will be taught in, that includes their uniform. So you cannot really compare this to a state funded school, that maybe the closest one to send your child too.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Not in the school across from me, they are excused Assembly and at the end of term being a C of E school the pupils attend church which they are also excused from

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Which, when you think about it, is perfectly reasonable and in fact the only way to behave (even if it weren't law). Can you imagine the outcry if a Muslim or a Jew was forced to go to a Church service and sing about Jesus being the Son of God and the Messiah? The very idea is daft. Pity the board of governors at this new school aren't big enough to say likewise about their scarves-for-all rule.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Both my children attended a CofE junior school, which had children of other faiths (Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Catholics) - these children (via their parents) were allowed the option of not attending CofE faith-based events - some did, some didn't.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I think though that we should go the way of France and state schools should be secular - no clothing of a religious nature allowed, no religious services etc - this should even be extended to government bodies ie civil service, police etc

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

www.yourschooluniform.com/acatalog/stjohnandstjames_Primary_School.html

---------- Post added at 14:39 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

http://www.yourschooluniform.com/aca...on_school.html

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Sorry, I might be missing something there, but why the links. They just appear to be two schools and the uniform policy, which seems pretty standard.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Chris you are a little too old to be wearing school uniform!! lol

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

uniforms with crosses?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

something that always bothered me was allowing sikhs to ride motorbikes without a helmet.
WHY!!!??(maybe they changed this i dunno, but it still gets to me)
madness - u cant allow 1 branch of society to have different rules,
as for the head scarves at the school - only 5% of muslim women wear them and they dont have to its not in err what ever the book is they read :) from my understanding, schools should have uniforms but if its not ur religion u should be able to not wear it if its not ur religion

and yes france do have the right idea i love them for that - they do what they want when they want and dont give a monkeys if your not french and white they aint happy about u

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

for example this logo is on the uniform which has to be worn by all pupils

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

which head you got on today catweazle ;-)

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

mmmmm... all Christians (to the best of my recollection) recognise the cross as a sign of Christianity.

Not all Muslims recognise a head-scarf as "compulsory" - it is up to your own (or your family/neighbours) conscience/interpretation of "modesty".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/6059860.stm

Bit of a difference (imho)

---------- Post added at 15:11 ---------- Previous post was at 15:10 ----------

Strange - I thought the French were quite keen on Thierry Henry and Patrick Viera (amongst others). :erm:

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Not all regard it as compulsory, in fact to do so may stray close to idolatry worship. The cross symbol should not really be seen a neccessity to Christians however I understand that if a school chooses to have it as part of their symbol or logo then yes of course it should be worn by all pupils.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

ok, if not islamic then its simply part of the uniform. if islamic, whats the difference compared to uniforms bearing crosses?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

<my bad> for not being clear - more about the cross being recognised as a symbol of faith, whilst the head-scarf is an interpretation (imo) of modesty, which is regarded as a requirement in the Q'uran.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I think HTBM raises an interesting point then. If a Christian school can force all pupils to wear a sign on their uniform that is widely recognised as a symbol of Christianity, then why can't a Muslim school force all pupils to wear a garment as part of their uniform that is widely recognised as a symbol of the Muslim faith?

Edit: I actually thought I replied to Chris...

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Which means that it defiantly has religious overtones, as opposed to 'simply being part of the uniform' like the chap being interviewed tried to say.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Wearing a sign (or logo) on the uniform and wearing a seperate item of clothing are 2 different things. If for example the muslim school insisted all pupils have a badge or logo with a veil on it or some other symbol of Islam then I'd say they are perfectly within their rights.

The logo identifies which school the pupil is part of. The veil or scarf doesn't.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Do they force them, my son is allowed to wear any type of dark blue jumper we choose within reason, not just the official school one's.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

So there's no compulsory logo (on any garment)? (Thankfully, I never had to wear a school uniform, so I'm blissfully ignorant here)?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

And that is where the problem arises.

The cross is recognised as a symbol of Christianity because Jesus died upon it.

The head-scarf is an individual's/imam's/family's interpretation of what "modesty" is - if the majority of Muslim women in this country do not wear head-scarves, how can it be stated that this is "widely recognised as a symbol of the Muslim faith".

In France, only 20% of Muslim woman wear head-scarves, and from my personal experience (living in Leeds, working in Bradford, daughter at Uni in Leicester) that correlates in the UK - not exactly a majority, is it?
http://islamlib.com/en/page.php?page=article&id=542

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I am not saying that, all I am saying is that from my experience the logo is not compulsory.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

tosh. you can have a school logo without christian symbolism, indeed a number of c of e schools do that. its not just identifying the school but the school's affiliation to a particular faith. a veil is hardly a symbol of islam in the same way the cross is a a christian symbol - it is the iconic symbol of christianity.what would your position be if the headscarf had the school logo on it to help identify the school?

---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------

if its sewn into a shirt or blazer its fairly compulsory ;-)

---------- Post added at 15:35 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------

so its part of the uniform then? so why the fuss?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

My son is at a CofE High School - the logo'ed items are preferred, but not compulsory (but the replacement item must be close to the same "uniform" colour).

We don't buy the school jumper because it is acrylic, feels awful, and stretches out of shape - an equivalent one of the same colour is acceptable.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

For instance my son has two official school jumpers with school logo's on, he also has another with no logo at all on it, all conform to the uniform criteria.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I think I introduced the idea of crosses earlier, and I said at the time it wasn't an exact analogy ... it turns out it's rather less exact than I'd hoped.

As Foreverwar pointed out, the cross is a symbol of the religion. There is no obligation, or suggestion, or interpretation of scripture that says it must be worn.

The headscarf, on the other hand, is an expression of a particular interpretation of morality. The cross does not imply a moral stance, the headscarf does.

Once upon a time the cross may have been worn specifically as a symbol of allegiance, but (sadly) these days it's an item of jewellery and, in the case of these school uniforms, a quasi-heraldic device, and cannot by any reasonable person be taken as a statement of the morals or beliefs of the one wearing it.

Now you're the one with the faulty analogy. If you're talking about iconic symbols, the Islamic school should have a crescent in its logo and be satisifed with that.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

You've missed the point entirely. Of course you can have a school symbol without its chosen faith being represented on it. What I'm trying to say is whatever logo the school chooses is something I believe all pupils should wear, whether religious symbol attached or not. It identifies which school the pupil comes from.

I don't see why a school should make a pupil wear an extra item of uniform in order for them to comply with its faith - and that would be my position had it been a Christian, Muslim, Catholic or Sikh school.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Its the wearing of the veil (i.e full niqaab) that is a case of wider interpretation and how far one wants to define modestly covering up the body. This is where the interpreation regarding covering oneself modesty comes most into play.

Most scholars and followers of Islam would agree - Id say over 90% - (whether they wear it or not) that the covering of the head (wearing of the hijaab) is seen as being a necessity for muslim women under Islam. i.e the minimum requirement when displaying modesty, and is seen as a requirement for women to don.Whether they choose to follow that or not is up to them.
I have yet to meet a muslim woman who doesn't share this view (whether they wear it or not)

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

So it is optional for one group of people, but compulsory for pupils??

btw, from the teachersnet web site
http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/management/atoz/u/uniform/
The DfES does not consider it appropriate that any pupil should be disciplined for non-compliance with a school uniform policy, which results from them having to adhere to a particular cultural, race or religious dress code.


hbtm, I didn't understand your reply - what was this in reference to?
"so its part of the uniform then? so why the fuss?"
when I had said
"The head-scarf is an individual's/imam's/family's interpretation of what "modesty" is - if the majority of Muslim women in this country do not wear head-scarves, how can it be stated that this is "widely recognised as a symbol of the Muslim faith".

In France, only 20% of Muslim woman wear head-scarves, and from my personal experience (living in Leeds, working in Bradford, daughter at Uni in Leicester) that correlates in the UK - not exactly a majority, is it?
http://islamlib.com/en/page.php?page=article&id=542"

Don't see the connection :-(

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Ok then, but if the headscarf is not a symbol of the Muslim faith, then why is it problematic in this case? Because it is optional? So is wearing a cross around your neck, or on your breast. I would think that it is problematic, precisely because it is preceived by some as a symbol of the Muslim faith. Now, presumably, people disagree with pupils being forced to wear religious symbols, in which case it could be argued that the same would apply to logos with a cross? (Mind you, I'd prefer the absence of any religious reference)

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I agree with Russ. If the school was to have the Crescent incorporated into their school logo, that is fine and not an issue. Forcing the wearing of a head scarf is.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

:clap:

I'd certainly support that idea.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Unfortunately, it is not optional
OP
"Female students at a new Islamic school will be forced to wear head scarves regardless of their religious beliefs, it emerged today.

Pupils at the Madani High School in Leicester will have to cover their heads as part of the new £17.8million voluntary-aided school's strict uniform policy."

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

No, it is problematic because it indicates a specific moral stance.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Sorry, I meant optional in general, not optional at this school.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I think another way to look at this is that forcing the children to wear a headscarf, whether or not they are muslim, would be the same as all children in a CoE/Catholic school to have to wear a neckless with the Cross on it. To me, both are unacceptable and force the child to be identified with a particular faith. Incorporated into their uniform just links them to their school.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Good point Eddie :tu:

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

In some circumstances I disagree - for example if a faith school is exclusive and doesn't take children from any other religion than its own then I don't see a problem with all pupils wearing whatever items or symbols the school deem appropriate.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

If it is not a religious decision as is claimed, then why aren't the boys going to be wearing headscarves too?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Here's a thought. Let them all (boys + girls) wear hoodies, with the logo on the hood. Job done :tu:

(I'm joking btw)

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I think that would depend on whether it was a privately funded or state funded school. If it is privately funded, then fine, if its a state school then they shouldn't as they could be taking children from various backgrounds, even if the predominate faith of the school is Christian, Muslim etc

---------- Post added at 16:01 ---------- Previous post was at 16:00 ----------

That's a good point, so surely then its discrimination just as it was for schools to make girls wear skirts and boys trousers a few years ago

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Darn it, Eddie said what I had wanted to say. Laïcité, i.e. the French approach, is such a good way of doing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9

If it wasn't for the naff salary I was getting in France compared to what I get here in Old Blighty, I'd be seriously considering emigrating there again.

---------- Post added at 16:13 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------

Heh, that reminds me of this apt cartoon :D

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/eX0rcist-veil.jpg

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

but ok for muslim children to have to wear a uniform with the cross on?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Yes - if that is part of the school's logo!

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

we arent doing exclusive faith schools any more. the government wants faith schools to hold 25% of places for pupils who dont practice the faith. quite why they dont just do away with faith schools i dont know (except the cash comes in handy for these new academies)

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Ideally, all religion should be separated from education, but that won't be happening any time soon thanks to this shambles of a government which has probably worsened the situation.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

That's why I chose it as an example.

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

Who are you to call that ideal? What about the parents and children who will want religion in school?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

i for the life of me cant see what your point is. so what if the cross is in the logo? it is still part of the uniform which must be worn regardless of a pupil's faith. if i designed a school logo incorporating a swastika would that be ok becasuse its simply part of the logo? of course not, it would rightly be seen as identifying a school with fascism in the same way a cross identifies a school with christianity.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I say to them, why indoctrinate? School is a place of learning. Why integrate religion into education.

Oh noes I just opened a new can of worms.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

its a point thats hard to see russ. whichever way you look at it, as part of the uniform or logo, it features an iconic christian symbol which non-christians may have to wear. and as you say aa school chooses a logo featuring christian iconography. it can equally choose not to.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

(Sigh)

I believe all pupils should wear their school badge or logo. Nothing extra is required. It is up to the school to decide what should be on that logo, and the board of governors is unlikely to allow a symbol of Nazi Germany to to included.

Demanding pupils wear an extra item of clothing relating to the faith of that school is one step too far and is entirely different.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

and it doesnt in any way link them to christianity? a marketeer would incorporate iconography wherever possible to promote christian ideology.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

You don't think religion plays a huge part in world affairs? Without proper religious education people grow up thinking all religion causes wars.

Only for you apparently. A school should be permitted to display whatever logo they chose on it's badge and all pupils, as part of that school should wear it!

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

sigh. if you believe it is up to the school to determine its logo is it not then also up to the school to determine its uniform?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Yes but veils are not part of conventional uniform (which is usually trousers/skirt, shirt/blouse, cardigan/jumper/blazer)! That simply relates to a faith!

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I thought the common consensus here was that you aren't required to wear uniforms with logo's on

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

I'm very worried that I'm agreeing with you, especially when it 's over a religious matter, :erm: but :clap:

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

school logos do not need to incorporate crosses - that simply relates to faith.

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:58 ----------

does not appear to be the case at all to me.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

:banghead:

Anyone else fancy trying to get through to him?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

hang on, isnt this a faith school so.....

---------- Post added at 17:01 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

no need for that at all mr moderator. i find you equally hard work.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Again, you appear to be the only one. Looks like just about everyone else taking part in this thread can see my point.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

explain why then a school should be allowed to incorporate christian iconography within its uniform (tthrough the logo_ - which is worn by pupils of all faiths and denominations (and decorates school signage, notepapers etc) but an islamic school cannot.

you see to be contending that the logo is entirely value free; that it just helps identify that school and carries no further message. do you really belive that?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

All schools have logos - only specific ones have veils as part of the uniform. And you know what the reasons for them are.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Except it looks like wearing the logo isn't compulsory, where as the scarf is

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

indeed all schools have logos. they do not however need to incorporate christian iconography. many do. many dont. equally you know the reasons why some schools use the iconography - to highlight and promote the faith to which they are aligned, to create a shared christian identity. this is what logos do.

like i say i would like to see faith schools taken out of the equation. that remains my position. but whilst we have them id like to see a bit of fair play over the use or alleged use of religious symbols and articles of faith.

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------

http://www.heart-england.solihull.sc...oluniform.html black blazer with badge.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

If I sent my daughter to a church of england/RC school which had a logo on its blazer of christ on the crucifix would she have to wear it? From what I am reading here then the answer is (I think, correct me if im wrong) Yes, as this is not a symbol of religion but represents a school?? Sorry Im a bit cionfused, can someone clarify that to me in laymans terms as its a long day.
Now as a muslim I would not like my daughter to have to wear any such symbol as to me it symbolises the death of a prophet on a cross (a view we donot share) and it also symbolises majar difference in our religions. However as its a complusory part of the uniform (and it does, whatever u say identify the fact that my child goes to a christian faith school) and I have chosen to send her to that school, for whatever reason, then she will have to wear it.

Now why is it so hard to apply that reasoning to the school in question. You can argue what you want about religious symbols/interpretations or whatever else, the principle is the same. At the end of the day the logo on a blazer identifies that the school belongs to a particular faith, it has to be displayed on your blazer whether you like it or not. The scarf represents a muslim faith school. Simple as that really.

As a muslim, wearing a logo with a cross on it would make me uncomfortable, we generally stay away from such icons/symbols, but it wouldn't compromise my faith as a muslim. I would not be compelled to convert to christianity, and see this as just something I have to wear. Can a non muslim not apply the same reasoning here?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

the simplicity seems to elude ;-)

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Several posts have already been made - I have made more than one of them - that explain that to you. You have chosen to ignore them.

Let me set out the key points as I see them, again:

1. Equating the cross and the headscarf makes for a poor analogy. The cross is a common symbol of the religion, the headscarf is a deliberate statement of a personal, moral position. A better equivalent would be the crescent. For example, here is the crest of the Nottingham Islamia School, about which I recall absolutely no controversy whatsoever:

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2. The school crest identifies, to some greater or lesser extent, the moral atmosphere, direction and aspirations of the school. It does not make a statement about the personal morality of the wearer. An item of religious attire, on the other hand, most certainly does suggest that the wearer subscribes to a particular ideology or doctrine. Although mainstream Islam generally agrees that all muslim women should cover up to some extent or other, muslim women themselves only do so if they personally agree and wish to identify with the teaching on modesty. On the other hand there is no teaching in Christianity that says you must wear certain symbols in order to properly show accord with any doctrine or expression of morality. Plenty of people do use Christian symbols, such as the cross or fish, as statements of belief, but this is far from universal and to try to claim it's in the same category as the headscarf is simply absurd.

3. If you see a nun walking down the high street in her traditional headscarf, I predict you would *assume* she was a nun under holy orders. If you see a woman in identifiably Islamic dress with her head covered, I predict you would *assume* she was a muslim who wished to honour her religion's teaching on female modesty.

On the other hand, the thrust of the row over Fiona Bruce's crucifix necklace the other week was that nobody outside of loony-liberal BBC management would assume she was actually making a statement of religion by wearing it during the 10 o'clock news. The cross, due to its status as an item of jewellery and the fact that nobody executes by crucifixion any more (nor knows what crucifixion is, in many cases) has lost a lot of its impact as a religious symbol. So, even when it is worn with specific religious intent, its meaning is likely to be lost on a significant proportion of people.

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

Religious clothing is totally different. What if you sent your kids to a Jewish school and they were forced to wear a skullcap?

Re: School forces girls to wear head scarves
 

A very good point, especially as Jesus very specifically reversed the Church's ideas about covering/uncovering the head as compared to those held by the Jews. The teachings of the two religions are poles apart on that issue.