Analogue TV
 

Will NTL ever add any more channels to the analogue cable, seems unfair on customers who live in non-digital areas.

Re: Analogue TV
 

Very, very, unlikely. Although for these area's I've heard that the network will be upgraded for broadband and dtv services in time for the ntl analogue switch off in 2008.

Can another staff member or someone else confirm this? I know London is being upgraded as we speak, but isn't there small parts of Leeds and maybe other places as well where investment is required in the network?

Re: Analogue TV
 

So NTL Analogue will be switched off in 2008, what happens to Analogue customers when that time comes.

Re: Analogue TV
 

If you are in an area that allows it, upgrade to NTL digital :)

If you are in an area that doesn't allow it, hope that you can get either a sky or freeview package, and that the NTL billing system doesn't treat you as an permanent member , when you want to leave :)

Re: Analogue TV
 

Where have you got that 2008 figure from? Remember ntl analogue switch-off is not at all related to terrestrial analogue switch-off.

ntl will continue to provide an analogue service to existing customer until they can be migrated to digital. Its possible that they will say that it is not economical to migrate some areas to digital, in which case they would probably stop offering services in those areas.

Re: Analogue TV
 

all true, which is what some people in some areas are worried about?

Leicester seems to be divided, for example??

Re: Analogue TV
 

Thats the date thats floating around in work, Q1 2008. Although no doubt they will carry on analogue until such areas are upgraded to sufficient capacity - I'm guessing network upgrades are really going to be pressed on with since the merger, as they try to align more and more former ntl systems/processes/services with telewest systems/processes/services (which AFAIK the TW side of the network is fully broadband/dtv enabled already).

Oh, and no doubt they will advise those analogue customers before a good while before anything actually happens...

---------- Post added at 23:33 ---------- Previous post was at 23:28 ----------

Sorry In my previous post please change Leeds to Leicester as just getting the post codes in my head mixed up - Leicester is what I meant. As far as I'm aware apart from the few pcokets in London which are being sorted out there are parts of Leicester which no doubt will be done all in good time, as per my post above.

Re: Analogue TV
 

:LOL: is the harrogate laser link still in place?

Re: Analogue TV
 

In my own opinion i cant see all analogue areas being upgraded to digital in the near future, however they are in the progress of getting rid of analogue custeomers by natural attrition as to my knowledge analogue tv is no longer for sale to new customers.

but that is just my own opinion

Re: Analogue TV
 

Analogue services are still offered in the parts of Southampton (or analoguehampton) where they have not upgraded the service yet (ie the entire East part of the city). It is strange when they seem to be upgrading some areas already on digital so they can press the red button but cannot be bothered to upgrade people to digital, but thats my view on it.

Re: Analogue TV
 

doubt its because they cant be bothered. probably due to cost

Re: Analogue TV
 

They probably will do, but its really up to the owners of TV channels. The BBC ruled that it will not add any channels to Analogue except BBC1,2 and News 24 and I think Parliament.

I know that there are more channels on NTL analogue than there is on Telewest Analogue. Telewest is now able to get rid of Analogue completely since all areas are digital.

So all Telewest analogue customers should upgrade to Digital as analogue is limiting bandwith on the network.

Re: Analogue TV
 

I have heard from one of the network guys posting somewhere around here (or at least this is how I intepreted it) that once the migration of Bromley DTV customers to Langley is complete (which given the complaints on here, half hour queuing times for faults, etc is likely to be at least a few months yet) that the next major undertaking is to upgrade the remaining narrowband parts of the network up to a decent capacity (London is already nearing completion of their network upgrades, then there's parts of Hampshire and parts of Leicester and maybe one or two other areas) - and bingo, they'll be able to upgrade the network to qam256, ditch analogue tv altogether and give us all 100Mb broadband. ;)

Re: Analogue TV
 

NTL has two franchises that are still completely analogue and have no telephone network accompanying it. Those franchises are the ex-BT franchises covering Westminster and Milton keynes.

NTL is loosing so much custom in these two areas because people have to pay the 'TV only package' charge which includes telephone line rental without the phone service together with a poor outdated tv service. Customers then have to look elsewhere for telephone and internet services meaning they end up spending an extra £20 to £40.

In other words its a load of crap!

I think NTL would need to spend at least £15 to £20 Million on these two franchises to upgrade the network to digital and put a telephone network in. In Westminster they could just expand the ex-videotron telephone network which is also in parts of westminster.

Re: Analogue TV
 

Point taken on board, but you can't blame ntl for being a load of crap, but Videotron instead (a Canadian company btw, who know how to build a fibre network - therefore we must conclude they knowingly done it on the cheap), as noted below...

Well as far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong), but I thought MK was ok - Westminster I know is a crap network, all thanks to BT (makes a change from blaming Videotron, lol!) who built the network in this area. Westminster customers are extremely hard done by at present, but of course this is something that will eventually happen as well (only problem with Westminster is the local authority and street works).

Re: Analogue TV
 

In City of Westminster, these are the cable companies which operate there:

Ex-BT Cable franchise: NTL
Ex-Videotron franchise: NTL
Ex-Cable London franchise: Telewest

The ex-videotron franchise has a telephone network with it and I know for a fact that it reaches Oxford street and Paddington. In fact Mercury payphones later interphone payphones were connected to the Videotron network.

The Cable London franchise of Telewest goes down Great Portland street and reaches as far as Covent Garden, Flextech is actually based on Great Portland street.

The councils have also commented on the long delay of NTL upgrading the networks to digital as they want to use NTL's broadband services. Many local councils use NTL Telewest for Broadband and tele-services.

NTL have been the owners of these two cable networks for around 7 or 8 years and they have not done much to improve the service despite all its claims that it will invest millions and have it completed by 2005. Well its nearly 2007 and its still as it was back in 1997.

Re: Analogue TV
 

Hence my main point, people are being denied services by NTL because they do not reside in a digital area.

People have to stick with analogues reduced service until their area becomes digital.

Re: Analogue TV
 

I am in an ex-videotron area of West London but only have analogue available (no phone line option), this is because I'm in a block of flats. How many other analogue "islands" are there across the region, and will they ever be upgraded, or just lose the service?

We are not allowed individual dishes, but Sky have recently been leafleting the block offering a free communal roof top dish if more than 4 subscribers sign up.

Re: Analogue TV
 

i thought ntl had an agreement with BT that they wouldnt supply westminster with telco lines? has anyone else heard this?

Re: Analogue TV
 

I'm in the 'analoge island' of London E1 and really want to upgrade to digital, but nobody from ntl can tell me when that might be!:help:

Re: Analogue TV
 

If someone is upgraded to digital, would an Analogue box still work on the line or is the Analogue signal switched off ?

Also, do Digital and Analogue STB's have to have different power levels set in the street cabinet?

Re: Analogue TV
 

Well if there is no phone line, then you must be using the ex-BT network. Because as far as I know, Videotron operated a telephone service and is the largest in London.

---------- Post added at 10:28 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

No, very much doubt it. NTL are a private independent company meaning that they can really dig up streets and install what ever they like once they have informed the council. NTL holds licences to do so. Only Ofcom and local councils can revoke it.

BT has no right to object a new phone service by NTL. Furthermore, Westminster is a Conservative constituency, and they were the ones that introduced competition, so westminster isn't likely to refuse.

However, if you all stay with NTL's analogue TV service, when all upgrades are complete and when the rebrand is complete, you all might get some kind of goodwill gesture for putting up with it for so long! Like discounted or even free Digital TV.

What NTL can do for those in ex-BT areas and properties with no NTL phone line:

1. Provide telephone service over a BT line offering the same level of service as you would with an NTL line.

2. Upgrade network to digital, so that NTL Digital TV services and Broadband can be provided.

3. Send one bill for all 3 services.

The whole network is just a complete shambols in West London!

Re: Analogue TV
 

This area of Acton was one of the first Videotron TV only installations, when the phone service was added it was not rolled out to apartment blocks. The area has never been BT.

As you point out West London is a mess and NTL cannot say if we will be upgraded, an NTL engineer recently advised me to keep phoning NTL CS to check on digital availability, however with the long and expensive wait to get through, I am not going to be taking his advice.

Re: Analogue TV
 

Right well if its that part of London, you should expect to see some improvement soon. With regards to Videotron telephone service, I think they must of run out of money and then later, when they wanted to continue expanding, the local council must have refused permission, otherwise they probably just ran out of money. A few years later, Videotron,Nynex,Mercury Communications,Bell cable and Cable and Wireless created a new cable company called Cable and Wireless Communications and all these franchises where put into this new company, whilst all these changes were being made, CWC must have forgotten about it completely. That new company and lasted 2 and a half years when it was sold off again to NTL. Usually, when companies are aquired and then sold off and aquired by another company again, services to customers usually decline. So I would suggest contacting NTL's planning team to discuss the telephone situation.


This is what I found on the NTL media site:

New York, New York (July 18 1999)--NTL Incorporated (NASDAQ: NTLI; EASDAQ: NTLI.ED) ntl announces that it has acquired certain broadband cable franchises from British Telecommunications plc (“BTâ⠂¬Â�). The franchises are located in Westminster and Milton Keynes and cover a total of approximately 210,000 homes, approximately 189,000 of which are passed by broadband networks. The acquisitions increase ntl’s total franchise homes in the UK and Ireland to more than 5.8 million homes.

ntl expects to invest approximately £15 million pounds to upgrade the networks for digital cable, interactive services and high speed internet access. In addition, ntl will pay BT £5 million on closing and up to £14 million on completion of the upgrade of the Westminster network. Thereafter, ntl will lease the networks from BT on a long term basis for an annual lease payment of approximately £3.9 million.

Westminster is one of the UK’s most prestigious cable franchises, and gives ntl a strategically important presence in the heart of London. The franchise covers approximately 137,000 homes and enables ntl to reach the offices and homes of key people within the UK government and leading businesses. This network will be connected to ntl’s fibre facilities in London. Milton Keynes fills an important geographic area within ntl’s existing cluster of franchises, connecting in the north to our Northampton franchise, in the east to our Bedfordshire franchise and in the south to our Oxford franchise. This franchise covers approximately 74,000 homes, and has achieved 81% customer penetration. In addition to these franchises, ntl will acquire an additional 24,000 homes which are served by narrowband cable systems.

It seems a very expensive process and could see the two franchises closing!

Re: Analogue TV
 

What is so sad in all this is how the cable franchises were created in the first place. What should be the jewel in the cable crown, London, is a patchwork of several networks using out of date technology and delivering third rate services. The most powerful and wealthy people live in London (especially Westminster) but can they spend some of their millions on VOD or broadband? No, because some of the differing networks haven't been upgraded yet.

It could've have been so diffrent....

In the 80's, rather than allowing companies their own exclusive patches, any company should've been allowed to lay down cable and run services over it. What I think would have happened is that the big North American cable cos like Nynex,TCI,Videotron and the Baby Bells would've, at first, concentrated all their efforts in laying cable in London and other big cities like Manchester and Birmingham. In the large cities you would have had several cable cos directly competiting with each other as well as BT. This would have led to, I think, better services being offered much earlier and would have forced BT to roll out services like broadband much quicker too than they actually have done. The cable cos would've had to of kept uprading their networks to offer the "latest thing" and keep the prices down to consumers. I believe the cable cos would've moved into profit very quickly only serving the large cities. Eventually the companies would've consolidated at that point into perhaps 2 or 3. Then and only then, the cable cos would've began to move into other parts of the country laying cable into towns and smaller built-up areas.

Under that scenerio, there would have been no merging of lots of smaller networks and all the costs that have incurred. And once 2 or 3 cable cos emerged out of the cities, the cable companies would have been large enough to gain better deals with hardware/channel suppliers, thus reducing costs further. Perhaps they would've had their own premium tv content by now if this had happened, rather then drooling at Sky's or Setanta's premium sports. Although, ntl could buy Setanta today if wished...

The reason I say all this, is look at the BT local-loop unbundling and the effect that diffrent ASDL resellers have had on the broadband market. Becuase of the fierce competition, companies have had to innovate and keep prices down. Would ntl really be trialling 20mb now if it wern't for other companies already offering, albeit limited, 24mb services? I don't think so. Just think if there were a few big nationwide cable companies slugging it out, what effects that would have on services today. I bet those in Westminster would be watching Hi-Def films over fibre-optic cables now, not watching analogue tv and no access to broadband. Good job I live to the east of London:)

Re: Analogue TV
 

Some interesting background information there. I do remember the original Videotron it was around 1992-3 and had the famous Mosaic channel, many of the channel numbers have not changed here since, with The Box on Ch.02 and Sky on Ch.11. There was a greater choice back then with Sky Movies, Sky Gold, TV5 (french), Zee TV and MBC. I do remember prior to the cable franchises when BT offered to provide a fibre network to all homes in the UK providing they kept their monopoly, Thatcher turned them down in favour of more competition. Ironic that after all these years we are effectively back to one provider.

Re: Analogue TV
 

...yes, gone full circle. Good point about BT there, I'd forgotton that. What should've happened is that BT should've been allowed to build its fibre network - nationwide. No doubt with tax payers subsidies...Then BT should have been split up a bit like now, with BT as the network provider in charge of maintenence of the network. But any company allowed to offer services over that network.

What I think will happen now, if we take America as an example and things here usually do mirror things over there. With the cable industry now united but in billions of debt and BT no longer has the restrictions placed on it to offer video/tv services. BT, like the American Baby Bells (not that their babies anymore...) will build a fibre network to customers homes. And becuase its built with private money, I doubt it will be forced to open up this network to other companies. This will put cable in a weak position and it doesn't have the money to do the same. I think someone will buy the united cableco to fight against BT, someone with a lot of money and experience, ie Deutche Telekom. Whoever has the best network, can offer the best services. So interesting times ahead and of course there's wireless technologies and other things out there as well to compete.

I think the press release posted by m419 basically says (apart from lack of money) why ntl hasn't upgraded the Westminster network and perhaps other areas too. It isn't theirs....it's leased from BT. Didn't know that. No wonder ntl haven't been in a rush to spend money in central London.

Re: Analogue TV
 

i think the main reason why several companies were not allowed to have cable in the same area is due to the local councils.
if there are 3 cable companies in one street it means that when there is a blocked T the road will have to be dug up 3 times as much causing 3 times as many problems, in an ideal world it would be good to dig it up once and get all the work done but can anyone actually see that happening?

Re: Analogue TV
 

Can't say for certain, but I don't think the councils had any say at all in how the cable industry was set up. In the same way they don't have any say on any other national issue. And besides, I frequently walk down roads where streets are dug up for water main works. The next week it's gas, week after electricity, week after that gas again.

As I understand it, councils have to be informed about road digs, but have no power to say when such works can go ahead.

It's interesting how decisions made 20 years ago affect things today. The Thatcher Government of the 80's had the right idea in introducing competition into the telecoms "market". But just went about it the wrong way. If it wern't for these threads, I wouldn't believe that some of the richest areas in London and the country don't have access to the same "basic" services like digital tv and broadband that I do. What I don't understand is why all the Docklands area can't get these services even now.

Re: Analogue TV
 

Councils actually have a big say especially if the network runs along council property.

According to Telewest, my local council can tell Telewest to get on its bike at anytime, I live in a council block of maisonettes and if the council wanted to eliminate this block from having Telewest, they can do. The council receives revenue from cable companies running there network along properties.

Furthermore, a few ammendments were changed in 2003. The councils now have more power on telecommunications companies. The Communications Act 2003 gives councils the ability to remove street equipment or enforce companies to remove it. Lambeth council in London took advantage of this and tore down several telephone boxes operated by interphone and sent the bill to the company, the reason for this was, because the company was not maintaining the equipment and the kiosks were in a bad state.

London Borough of Camden has also forced Telewest to fix all those street cabinets. first of all, the council cleaned off the flyposters and sent a very big bill to Telewest, but Camden council has threatened Telewest that it will remove certain street cabinets that are usually in a bad state or else constantly a danger to the public. It is expected that London Borough of Islington is to follow this too.

Re: Analogue TV
 

Do Virgin Media have a date for their analogue TV switch off yet? My Grandad is still on the analogue cable TV service and he asked a Virgin engineer that was in his road the other day and he said that it would probably be sometime next year, is this right? He also said that they would give him a new box, is that right or will he have to pay the £25 installation charge?

He is over 75 and entitled to help from Digital UK for the switchover but their site doesn't mention Virgin, only freeview, freesat and Sky. Would he still get a reduction (like it says for Sky), or is it down to Virgin what deal he gets? He has been a subscriber to them, like us, for some years now. Since it was first introduced to our area as Eurobell in fact (before Telewest and now Virgin)!!

Sorry if this has all been answered before but I couldn't find anything recent about Analogue cable TV anywhere on the internet, let alone when it will be switched off.

Re: Analogue TV
 

I have emailed Virgin and all they would say was:-

"Thanks for your email to Virgin Media regarding your query about 2012 switchover. Unfortunately we are unable to answer your query, hence we won?t be able to look into this matter just yet." (sic)

What that means :confused: who can say?

I live in New Ash Green which was re-cabled for analogue TV by NTL's predecessors when the previous Rediffusion cable system ceased.

Re: Analogue TV
 

also in New Ash Green, what service can you get on the old cable system. Virgin media dont know when you phone them.

but have been told by others in NAG that there is a service.

thanks

Re: Analogue TV
 

Unfortunatley, Virgin Media pulled out of New Ash Green at the end of February this year. Despite lobbying from our Village Association, VM declined to upgrade the cable to digital. They have abandoned us to Sky. As far as I know you can't get anything from their old analogue cable any more. I'm on Freesat now.

Re: Analogue TV
 

VM must have done a feasability study and thought they'd never make the outlay money back for a long time.