another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Right, I'm getting one. It has to be SLR. I've been looking at reviews at

http://www.dpreview.com/

I'm thinking about the Nikon D50, which is £650 with a lovely looking 18-70 mm lens. (from here

(The D50, as I understand is a slightly simpler version of the D70 which gets very good reviews as well, but is 100 odd quid more expensive)

Main rivals appear to be:

Canon EOS which gets equally good reviews, but appears to be a bit more expensive (same retailer

The Pentax *IST is a little cheaper, but the reviews aren't quite as positive

Any thoughts? This camera would be replacing a Pentax 35mm unit (which the gf who is the main photographer here is very fond of)

Also, I'll need a memory card with it. How many shots can one expect to put on a 512 meg card?

Ta for any input :)

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

I'm not a photographer but my bro is, he gets his stuff from:- http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/defa...bd24dd86fbe9af

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

The most positive advantage with the Nikon is the lenses (means you can put a polarising filter amongst others on). And having seen Nikon Digital is the choice of professionals I would stick with them.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Bear in mind that each of these SLRs has their own lens mount. This is a deliberate ploy by the manufacturers to lock you into their system. If you already have some Pentax lenses then well worth looking at the *istD and *istDS.

If you haven't already got a load of lenses then check out some of the new superzoom cameras. Due for release this month is the Fujifilm FinePix S9500 (28-300mm equivalent) and next month the Panasonic Lumix DSC-FZ30 (35-420mm equivalent). These have lots of advantages over a DSLR - cheaper, less to carry around, sensor doesn't need cleaning every year, some also have optical image stabilisation.

Another site to wade through is:
http://www.steves-digicams.com/
Check out the 'best cameras'.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Also if you do decide to go for a Nikon, make sure you've got some image editting software as pretty much all of the images I've seen from my old mans D70S have been undersaturated, easily fixed though.
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I'd rather take Canon L series glass over any Nikkor lens, far superior ;) Also, you can put all manner of filters on Canon lenses too, they're normally cheaper as well as they're only 58mm. AND you'll probably find that Canon is the professionals choice, I've seen several reporters and wildlife photographers with EOS 1DS Mk2's.
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Probably around 120+ high quality jpgs or 60 (ish) RAW's.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

An EOS 300D image at 6Mp will probably create a 3Mb JPEG so that would be 170 images. RAW will half that.

Your GF needs to visit a camera shop and try them, look feel, usability, find out about backward compatability of the lenses she owns.

I would be getting the EOS, but only because I have a compatible flash, 3 lenses, Cokin mount system etc.

And you should always buy a daylight filter for a lens to protect the first optical element from scratches, dust etc. Better to replace a £5 filter than a £500 lens.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

a 512mb card in a 300D will store 142 jpg's (best quality) and 56 RAW (I've just checked on mine).

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Ta everyone. I had thought about the lenses. We currently have a Pentax 35-80 plus a 100-300 (which we hardly use, and which is a bit of a pain to carry around) Obviously there is the external flash (we have a sigma) which would probably need replacing as well.

The thing with the lenses though is that, as I understand, you basically need to multiply the specs by 1.5 when used with a digital camera. So, the small lens would effectively be 53-120 which means we would need to buy a smaller lens anyway.

The 18-70 (effectively 28-105 seems a very nice one lens solution.

The pentax apparently underperforms on jpeg (but not RAW) (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxistds/page24.asp) which counts against it.


I'll have a look at the superzoom, but I think the gf wants the control of a 'real' camera.

SMHarman: Yes, we will be visiting a shop to handle the product before buying it. I'm just doing my research to narrow the field down :)

edit: this guy speaks very highly of the nikon 18-77 mm lens (as well as the d70/50)

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Cannon have created a 'digital' lens which is sold as a package with the 300D which deals with the long lens problem.

Thinking about it that a nice bonus, turning the 100-300 into a 150-500 for free.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

It would be, but we'd have to carry a tripod as well :) (and as I said, it's not used much, possibly because we don't have a tripod)

ROY: 7day shop looks good. Nikon d50 with 18-55 lens is £50 cheaper than on best cameras.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

You'll find that most tog are either in the Canon or Nikon camp - there are two forums, Nikonians and Photography-on-the-Net that deal with each camp. My personal preference is Canon - namely as Bifta said becuase of the Canon L lenses which are far better than even the Nikkor glass.

But in reality there is little chose between competing Canon and Nikon camera bodies. It's all about personal taste, as SMH suggested, take a trip to a camera store and try them out....one thing I didn't like about the Nikon was that the camera strap kept catching on the programme dial changing the setting.

Good advice...you'll also see these called a Skylight filter. However I use a UV filter on my lenses, as there is less colouration that with Skylight which have a slight warm tint to them - but I'm being anal. If you also want to be anal about your UV filters, pick B+W filters - they're more like 30 quid for a UV Haze, but they're much much better than the Hoya or Jessops' own brand.

Whether you pick the Canon or Nikon will dictate your own-brand lens choice - both have good ranges, personally speaking the range of Canons is much better and wider - with something for everyone. If you want the bargain of the decade buy a Canon 50mm f/1.8 - it's plasticy and will break if you drop it, but the glass is stunning, the quality of the shots are wonderful and the minute depth of field you can get out of 1.8 is trouser-wettingly cool! And the best bit....buy it from 7dayshop and it's 55 quid - but produces shots almost as good as the f/1.4 50mm at five times the price. This lens is really good for portraits BTW.

Outside of the own-brand lenses, some of the Sigma lenses are top notch. Most 3rd party manufacturers offer their wares in all the major fittings such as Canon, Olympus and Nikon.

If you're looking at Sigmas, try and go for the APO and EX lenses - which are their equivalent of the Canon L lenses. If you're feeling flush then pick the Sigma 50-500mm (yes that's half a metre!!) lens. For outdoor shots with lots of light you will not get a better lens under £1,000 (and you can pick these up for about £600).

But the thing about lenses is that buying a brand does not denote a quality standard. Many years ago I bought the Canon 75-300 USM lens for the extra focal length. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad lens (well Ok it is actually), but when you compare it to my new 70-200mm L you would never believe that they came from the same camera! So there's one to avoid. Also avoid any lenses for sale in Dixons/Currys. Period.

Check out those forums linked above, search on what lenses people are raving about, generally they'll shove up some comparison shots to help you - but without it buying lenses is a minefield, so never be afraid to ask for their help.

Phew...I'll stop now, my fingertips are starting the bleed :LOL:

If you need any more advice, just holler....

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

I wouldn't say all Sigma APO lenses are of equivalent quality to L glass. I tried a couple of Sigmas in Jessops the noise from the AF was enough to wake the dead. I borrowed a Tamron 18-200 F/3.5-6.3 XR Di II , stunning lens, I've ordered one and decided to give away my 90-300mm USM (worst lens ever).

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

I was planning on getting the D70, but now Nikon's replaced it with the D70s it's almost impossible to find. A couple of local camera shops (Jessops and London Camera Exchange) each have one left for just under £700, but this site http://www.camerabox.co.uk/product.asp?ProductID=1229 has the D70s for £724 with the 18-70 lens.

(Scroll over to the right hand side of the page and there's also a useful chart on memory cards and the number of pics you can get on each depending on the MP count eg 160 on a 512MB card for a 6.1 MP camera)

From what I've heard the D50 may have a slightly lower build quality than the D70s, but the hardware is slightly better, the spot meter sensor is wider (thus less accurate) and you don't get as much control over EV compensation (just checking that site you gave, it gives 1EV steps instead of 1/3EV steps. The 70s has more controls (and IMO more control) the 50 appears to be simpler to use, but with less functions.

There again, the 50 has USB 2.0 and uses SD cards, whereas the 70s has USB 1.1 and needs CF cards.

Because I already have Nikon lenses, I'm not looking to change models, so I can't help on that choice, it's just whether to go for the D50 or the D70s!

See above :)

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Well, I discussed it with the GF tonight, and we are leaning towards the Nikon mostly because of the 18-70 mm lens. The D50 looks favourite over the D70, mostly due to it being slightly cheaper.

Time to handle the real product in the shop I suppose...

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Absolutely, if you're looking at that end of the range, make sure you pitch it against the Canon 350D, which is a lovely little unit. Don't put too much emphasis on the kit lens (the one that it comes with) as generally these are terrible compared with what's available. Most pros would never buy a camera with an included lens - but saying that the kit lens on the 300D and 350D is pretty good as they go - but still ripe for replacement.

But as I said before, it's all personal choice - see which one you feel is most comfortable in your hands, which one is easiest to use and which one takes the better shots. If you go somewhere like Jessops, ask them to set up both cameras to the same settings and take a shot on each - if you've got a memory card lying around take it with you, get them to transfer the images to your card and take them home and study which one looks best.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1870.htm

Is a review of this particular 18-70 kit lens, which sounds good to me (though I understand Ken Rockwell is a bit of a character). But mostly, I like the range on this lens, and a similar range lens plus EOS body will set you back £1000, as opposed to £650 for the D50 with the 18-70 lens.

At the end of the day, I don't see us spending £500 on a single lens. Reality is we don't use the camera that often (holidays mostly), but we tend to go far away (China this autumn). So we're looking for something decent, with control, but it's not a hobby per se...

Yes, we will definitely do that... We're not spending £700-1000 on a whim :)

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Looks reasonable...much prettier body than the Canon kit lens too!! Sounds about the same quality though.

BTW you can pick up the 350D for under £700 with kit lens at 7dayshop. It looks like they've exhausted their stocks of older 300D's as they were selling those for about 400 quid at one point! I've seen the D50 with kit lens (not the one you're talking about) for about 50 quid less than the Canon - which is a good deal.

Given what you've just said, I would look seriously at a high-end compact as well as DSLR's. Is there a particular reason why you're looking at DSLR's right now?

SLR's put you in control of the camera and don't fiddle with the image too much, whereas compacts do most of the thinking for you, letting you get on with taking shots. The actual image quality (in terms of sensors and MP's) will not differ that much - in fact the sensors and processors on some of the Canon Powershot models are the same ones as in the DSLRs, but fit in your pocket.

If you're concern is putting attachments on the end, you can do that with many compacts too, including things like polarizers etc.

I'm all for singing the praises of SLRs as loud as possible, but from what you've said it sounds like a compact might be more suitable for you.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Kelkoo immediatly comes up with the EOS300D and 18-55 EF-S lens for about £650, a long way from the £1000 and on the same money as the D50. The EF-S lens is not backward compatible, though has been made to provide that day to day lens that most digital owners need when they upgrade from wet media due to the optical length change. I belive most reviews of it are favourable.

Though you already have a pile of Nikon lenses and kit, though the flash guns often dont work on the digital ranges, My speedlite 430EZ will not work on the EOS300/350 I would need a 5XX model.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

It's a tradeoff really. I would probably be happy with a high end compact, but the GF wants control over the camera (she has on occasion taken the photos at people's weddings etc), and the possibility to add kit if desired. That doesn't mean we will be spending £1000s on kit though.
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Erm, yes. It appears that the one I saw with a 18-70 (or similar lens) had a rather expensive lens. Still, the Nikon works out a bit cheaper/gets you a lens with a bigger range for the same price. The lenses I have are Pentax btw.

But, we haven't decided either way yet. We haven't handled one yet...

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

You should take a look at the Cannon G range of compacts.
http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...&modelid=10463
(sorry could not be bothered to find a UK link)

The G6 is 7.1MP and has a high level of control. I'm amazed at the level of control my Powershot A80 (the A95 is the nearest comparable available). I've used it a lot in a light tent with fluro bulbs for web product photography and it comes with settings for this all built in and the ability to store them in a Custom setting so no need to reconfigure each time I want to take more.

My biggest complaint on the PowerShot when compared to a wet SLR is the shutter speed / time to ready the next shot. Most of the time it is not noticable, but as an example, when at Disney last weekend trying to get shots of my son with the characters, the EOS10 won hands down as you could click, click, click without the queue getting impatient, on a digital camera it was more click, wait, click, oh that would be a better shot but I am waiting for it to save / prepare for the next shot, click. I think the G series and certainly the EOS series are far better for this.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

You don't have to get the 550 or 580EX guns (although I've got the 550EX and it's just wonderful). You can use any of the EX, but not the EZ, models. If you can find an old one, the 380EX is excellent value for money second hand, but you can also use the 220EX (new costs less than 100 quid) but the best all-rounder is the 420EX, as it gives you a reasonable amount of control, plus options to upgrade (you can remotely trigger a 420EX with a 550 or 580EX) and you can pick them up used for about 120-40 quid.

Out of curiosity, how much have you been quoted for the kit with the 70mm lens? I've seen it for about £770 (which is £170 more than the standard kit - I wonder if you'd really appreciate the extra 15mm at that price?) It's also about £170 more than the Canon 350D, which offers an extra 2 million pixels for the lower price - and the kit lens on that is probably almost comparable to the DX18-70 lens.

I told you that you're either vehmently Nikon or Canon, and I'm pushing you towards Canon without even realising it! Sorry...I just think it's a better package all round.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

£650 (on the D50) which looks like a good deal.

The Canon 55mm is priced at £640 on the same site

But, like I said, we've not decided yet. One other reason for leaning towards Nikon is that the GF used to own an EOS 35mm which she didn't like (she thought it had too many automated programs), and swapped it for her Mum's Olympus.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

That's a good deal on the Nikon. Do you know if it has spot-metering? that's one thing that annoys me about my 300D is that it doesn't, but it's not a major inconvenience.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Graham seems to think it has :dunce:

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

The one stop EV comp is rather annoying, I don't think I could live with that. I can live without spot metering most of time however!

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

What level of AEB does it have, you could use that instead, but you would need 3 times the data space.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

The 300D has 1/3rd stop increments, which is peachy - 1 stop might be limiting, but there's always workarounds I guess. I'm sticking with Canon for now! Actually I'm probably going to upgrade to a 20D by the end of the year.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Have you tried the 'undutchables' firmware on your 300d yet?

http://www.gpi.dk/300d/

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

As does my baby Canon A85, as I was saying the software and user interface of the EOS has trickled all the way down the range, it has a massive amount of functionality for what should be a point and click.

The point and click bit is something I love about my EOS10, you ask someone to take a picture with it who's never used (or not used a SLR for a long time) and they look scared, but if it is set to green then it is no more complicated than a compact, they soon realise that and then fall in love with how much easier the handling is, especially with the Grip plate attached.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Spot metering tends to be one of those things you either use a lot or not at all.

I've also noticed, however, that the D50 doesn't have Depth of Field preview which is something I'd definitely want.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

No, I decided not to do it (at least until the warranty runs out!) To be honest there's only a couple of 'nice' features on there, neither of which I really need for my shots, that's the mirror lock-up and the higher rating ISO, so it's really not worth it.

Fabulous little cameras those!

This is turning into the Canon appreciation thread...and about time too :LOL:

Blimey, I thought all SLR's had that these days...it's a necessity, especially for some more tricky shots. I can't believe Nikon omited it.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

How does the DOF preview work on a 300D? If I press the relevant button all it seems to do is darken the subject in the viewfinder.

Edit: never mind idiot boy discovered that small aperture = less light = darker subject.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

= exposed aperture = exposed depth of field.
Strange in this digital, soft press button world when you press a button like that on the camera and hear the iris mechanics closing up.
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I originally was a big Olympus fan, OM10 > OM1, all sorts of lenses etc, then the house got burgled.
My failing eyesight (well I'm short sighted anyway) meant I wanted something with autofocus to replace it and at the time looked at Minolta, Canon and a good few others and settled on the EOS10, the only regret is I got the 35-135 as my base lens, not the 28-80 as I don't feel I have a sufficiently wide angle lens these days.

I also have a lovely little IXUS from the days when they took APS film and were the size of cigarette packets. Nowdays My SE K750i makes a very good replacement.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Is that the film EOS10 or the 10D digital? If it's the digital I can understand what you mean, with the focal magnification length you're starting length is about the same a 50mm lens - which would be quite restricting.

It's a shame that you can't use the 18-55 kit lens in the 10D, as there's a boat load of those available for about 50 quid each - which is an absolute bargain - but not compatible with the 10D (as you probably know!)

You could probably pick up an old 28-80 on ebay for next to nothing. I've got an old one around here somewhere (in the loft probably) which was the kit lens for my ancient film EOS1000FN...not a bad lens as it goes, but should be pretty cheap.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

EOS10 (wet), I had a 24mm f1.4 lens with the Olympus (fantastic lens), so to go to a 35mm as the widest was a bit of a step backward.
I was umming and aahing about a Digital SLR when I got the A85 but it can wait a while, the 4mp and control on that is adequate for what I do these days. A 2yr old means I take a lot less photos (well of things other than a 2 yr old).

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Here's a quick pictoral comparison of most of the curent superzoom prosumer cameras:
http://www.pbase.com/viztyger/image/47495182

Note that many include manual focus, zoom and exposure - just like DSLRs.

If you are going to China for a long time then you'll need to think about batteries. If you are going for a camera with rechargables then how are you going to charge them? From my trips to Nepal, I've found non-rechargable AAs to be ideal. In particular the Lithium Iron Disulphide ones such as the Energizer Lithiums currently available in a good BOGOF offer from Argos:
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/st...oductId=151389
... or Eurobatteries' own brand here:
http://www.eurobatteries.com/sitepag...on%20Batteries

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Personally I'd take the charger (which weighs next to nothing) and a travel adapter. Also it depends on how many shots you're taking, whether you're using flash etc - but my 300d is good for over 500 shots on a single charge.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Daniel, you might be interested to see this month's Practical Photography where they have a big test of all the key consumer digital SLRs, including the both the Nikons and both the Canons plus the others like the *ist (that name always makes me smile).

Anyway, PP this September edition - came out last week.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Cheers for that. I'll definitely have a look!

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Well... On the basis of the PP test (thanks Andy), and the gf having been to the shop to look at the actual thing, she has decided on the Canon. (that'll please some people that have posted in this thread :) )

Next step: the purchase :) Best price off the web (from places with a good rating from the likes of kelkoo) is £600 (Body and kit lens). Jacobs (we have one locally) is £630 according to their website. It doesn't say it's a web exclusive offer, so I'm presuming that's the physical shop price.

I think £30 more is not a great deal to pay for getting it from an actual shop where you can return the item and speak to a person in case something is/appears wrong, so that is tempting. The other benefit might be that we could flog off the old 35 mm kit as part exchange.

Questions:

Do Jacobs do part exchange?
Is a part exchange worthwhile given the following kit:
Pentax MZ-5 + kit lens (35-80)
Sigma 7-300 Zoom
Sigma EF-430 ST External Flash

p.s. I'm not interested in getting into Ebay to flog off the old kit.

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

To be honest the value of 2nd hand film kit as trade-ins is minimal. I know that Jessops will match prices, but pick a quiet branch, as they like to pick and choose which offers they will match if the store is hitting targets. They also do trade-ins. Get them to match your price first, then present them with your trade-in kit and beat them up on how much you want for it. Offer to take accessories such as memory cards instead of the cash for your trade-in.

I had a play with the EOS350D the other day...It's a great bit of kit and much improved on the 300D. It's just a bit small for my liking, so I'm probably going to upgrade to a 20D next year...especially as I seem to be doing more freelance photography these days.

Good luck!

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

Ta. Will do that. The gf was a bit concerned about the 350 being a bit small (as per the review), but didn't think so after handling it. Girl's hands I suppose :)

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

why dont you check this site :

http://www.hometownnewsmn.com/tech/42/term5934.html

Re: another digi camera (SLR) thread
 

What is that site exactly? Look like a load of rubbish to be honest.