Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

Hi Folks, ;)

I run a site http://www.phishybusiness.co.uk that is having a fair amount of problems with users unable to connect. I have done the usual things to solve it, removed graphics and reduced the overall size of the index page just in case it was that, turned on all the cache's I have etc..

Well I also got my host to do a check on the IP's that were having problems, they all turned out to be NTL IP addresses and my host has performed various traceroutes and checks etc and has com up with the conclusion there is a routing issue somewhere withing the NTL network that is causing the problem.

So I have had a couple of the members call up to see if they could sort it and basically told that there is no problem on the side of NTL - strange though that I have been reading plenty of similar reports on this forum - Anyway my problem is this..

The site will come backl up for members occasionally and they are ok to use it, with no speed issues etc, then it will die, 10 mins, 1 hour, 5 days.. there really is no pattern. I am not an NTL customer and as such cant really call up to try and get something fixed and my members ( already getting impatient, but still trying) are getting no where.

Can any of you advise where the problem MAY be, or WHY it could be happening so at least I have something to tell the people who are calling the issues in to tech support...

Please help

cheers

leigh:monkey: :Yikes:

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

It's a proxy cache problem, i've just viewed your site with a non-nttl proxy fine, but it would not display using the default proxy.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

Thanks Jon,

Now how do I put that in simple terms for the boys at NTL to fix without giving my members the usual load of excuses etc?

cheers

leigh:dunce:

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

to be honest, i'm not quite sure, ther are NTL techies on here and a few other members with links to NTL that could draw attention to the issue.

What may be an interesting and revealing factor is if the people that had trouble visiting your site were from the same geographical area, which would point to them using the same proxy to access your site.

Sorry I can't be any more help.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

I think they are all in and around Manchester (the ones who have reported problems)

It has been going on now for well over a week and its getting frustrating for them but more so on my side because I cant provide the service they are expecting due to circumstances I cant fix.

I will post up the traceroute done the other day for 2 of the IP addresses and see if any of the techy guys can escalate it for me.

thanks for your help so far

cheers

leigh;)
__________________

Traceroute done by my web host.....

__________________________________________________ _____

The IPs are not blocked in server or our networks. But from the traceroute
> I could see that threre is block from some other networks. So please
contact
> your ISP to resolve this issue. The traceroute result is attached
herewith.
> ================================================== ====
>
> root@oxygen [~]# traceroute 213.106.115.173
> traceroute to 213.106.115.173 (213.106.115.173), 30 hops max, 38 byte
packets
> 1 72.9.255.177 (72.9.255.177) 0.816 ms 0.852 ms 0.620 ms
> 2 209.51.137.101 (209.51.137.101) 0.390 ms 0.631 ms *
> 3 atl-core-b.gnax.net (209.51.134.153) 0.859 ms 0.627 ms 0.513 ms
> 4 209.51.149.110 (209.51.149.110) 0.629 ms 0.640 ms *
> 5 208.173.60.217 (208.173.60.217) 0.826 ms 0.832 ms 0.823 ms
> 6 dcr2-so-4-3-0.Atlanta.savvis.net (208.172.75.237) 0.735 ms 0.944 ms
*
> 7 bcs2-so-1-1-0.Washington.savvis.net (204.70.192.58) 14.624 ms 14.661
ms 27.741 ms
> MPLS Label=264848 CoS=6 TTL=1 S=0
> 8 bcs1-so-7-0-0.Washington.savvis.net (204.70.192.33) 14.241 ms 14.090
ms *
> 9 cpr1-pos-0-0.VirginiaEquinix.savvis.net (208.173.52.113) 15.046 ms
15.019 ms 15.133 ms
> 10 ge-2-1-1.edge1.Washington1.Level3.net (208.173.52.78) 14.653 ms
14.666 ms *
> 11 ae-1-53.bbr1.Washington1.Level3.net (4.68.121.65) 14.686 ms 14.750
ms 14.567 ms
> 12 * so-1-0-0.mp1.Manchesteruk1.Level3.net (4.68.128.82) 100.567 ms
95.082 ms
> 13 so-11-0.hsa1.Manchesteruk1.Level3.net (4.68.113.102) 95.250 ms
94.720 ms *
> 14 * 212.187.137.2 (212.187.137.2) 99.782 ms 99.477 ms
> 15 mant-t2core-a-pos71.inet.ntl.com (213.105.174.17) 97.561 ms 101.659
ms 97.615 ms
> 16 * oldh-t2cam1-a-ge-wan31.inet.ntl.com (213.104.242.42) 99.502 ms
99.663 ms
> 17 ubr02ward-ge01.inet.ntl.com (80.5.164.78) 96.783 ms 97.542 ms
97.071 ms
> 18 * * *
> ================================================== ====
> ================================================== ====
>
> root@oxygen [~]# traceroute 86.1.49.54
> traceroute to 86.1.49.54 (86.1.49.54), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
> 1 72.9.255.177 (72.9.255.177) 0.744 ms 0.757 ms 0.638 ms
> 2 209.51.137.101 (209.51.137.101) 0.587 ms 0.611 ms *
> 3 209.51.149.106 (209.51.149.106) 0.944 ms 0.888 ms 0.653 ms
> 4 atl-bb1-geth0-0-0-11.telia.net (213.248.90.53) 0.788 ms 0.935 ms *
> 5 ash-bb1-pos7-1-0-0.telia.net (213.248.80.141) 13.504 ms 13.268 ms
13.234 ms
> 6 nyk-bb2-pos0-3-0.telia.net (213.248.80.137) 19.719 ms 19.613 ms *
> 7 ldn-bb2-pos6-0-0.telia.net (213.248.65.209) 90.222 ms 90.084 ms
90.244 ms
> 8 ldn-b2-pos11-1.telia.net (213.248.74.10) 88.564 ms 88.328 ms *
> 9 ntl-110030-ldn-b2.c.telia.net (213.248.75.90) 88.612 ms 88.377 ms
88.610 ms
> 10 bre-bb-b-so-510-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.188.122) 89.240 ms * 88.978
ms
> 11 win-bb-a-so-400-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.172.233) 89.883 ms 89.704 ms
89.833 ms
> 12 man-bb-b-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.185.137) 97.509 ms * 97.178
ms
> 13 mant-t2core-b-pos31.inet.ntl.com (62.253.184.62) 96.249 ms 95.804 ms
95.627 ms
> 14 oldh-t2cam1-b-ge-wan31.inet.ntl.com (213.104.242.170) 99.446 ms *
99.772 ms
> 15 ubr03ward-ge02.inet.ntl.com (80.5.165.194) 100.655 ms 101.018 ms
100.463 ms
> 16 * * *


__________________________________________________ _______________

any help anyone can give is really appreciated

cheers

leigh;)

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

Hi leigh

:welcome: to Cable Forum :)

Does sound like to good old ntl proxy issue.

I can view your site fine on my default proxy on my ntl connection.


The usual fix, is to tell your browser to use a different proxy, as it's not possible to bypass the proxy with ntl.

If you tell your users to go to the following page, it has details of how to manually set a proxy to use, and has a list of available ntl ones.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d...trancache.html
Jusr randomly pick one from the list and try it!

Cheers
Mike

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

Cheers for the info Mike, I was one of the forum members that couldn't access the site. Changed the proxy to baguley from manchester and it seems to be working fine now.

Mark

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

You must all be mistaken, the NTL proxies are perfect ;)

Seriously though, I also could access that site fine, which is a miracle as the Poplar proxies have been awful just recently, I have to refresh almost every site several times to see the page :(

Just another day in paradise...

cheers

Ian

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

Thanks folks, it all seems to be working ok now ( for the time being at least)

It just makes me wonder if this is such a common problem why on earth has a more stable and permenant solution not been found yet? I am on Telewest and rarely get an issue with anything, it seems to me that NTL should be doing the same.

cheers

leigh

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

bunglehaze I am sure many people are thinking the same as you, the only people who know the answer are NTL themselves :(

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

I'm on ntl and rarely (and I mean rarely) get a problem with the proxies. If it enables ntl to reduce bandwidth charges and keep my Internet service at a reasonable price then caches are fine by me.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

I couldn't access your site until I changed my proxy setting, i'm on a manchester proxy by default. Loads fine on Baguley and Cardiff proxy's.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

I agree that the proxies would be fine if they worked properly *and* saved NTL money, the simple fact is that for a lot of us they don't work properly - and seem no nearer to being fixed :(If NTL ever get around to matching the speeds of the other ISP's then I dread to think how the proxies will cope, they barely manage with 3 meg :(

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

also need to remember because of the proxies apps such as realplayer and wmp need to be specifically configured to not use the proxies, if they are not then numerous problems occur, my real player wouldnt stream at all on the default settings. Imagine the problems this causes for the thousands of novice users out there.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

Sorry to drag this up again but I am hoping one of ther NTL techies can pick this up..

I am still having problems with members not being able to access the site from their NTL connections. Most have changed proxies and it works ok but others it still times out. What I need to get though is a permenant and universal fix for this as potential members on NTL cannot even access the site to join.

Can any of you advise who I need to call, on what number and the best way to try and find a solution to this problem. I am losing money through a fault apparently created by NTL and im not a very happy bunny.

there only seems to be a problem with this 1 site too. Can it be rectified by moving to a new web host or am I thinking too simply.

Any help you guys can give will really REALLY help and is appreciated.

cheers

leigh

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

try asking the webhost to allow *.server.ntli.net to bypass protections on the server, it is very unlikely you will get a fix from NTL, they are not proactive in fixing things that are complicated or that cost money (ie. turning of the proxies), the only contact you could try is tech support but with you not been a customer and it not been something in the content of their script you are unlikley to get anywhere again.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

I had the same response from my server host(s) they traced the faults to within NTL's network, I have been struggling with NTL to try and get an answer for weeks now, and recently my problems have been escalated to network management, but I seriously doubt it will fix anything.

I had 2 placating phone calls, and was told to 'give it a week' but nothing has been fixed, the evening is terrible, I can't really use my servers at all, and neither presumably can a lot of other NTL users.

It seems the NTL network is pretty rubbish when it comes to web browsing, the proxies break so many sites its not true, steampowered.com is currently broken on loads of their proxies (mine included) which is just amazingly bad, and I guess it will take months to fix as usual.

I really don't want the hassle of leaving them, but I'm pretty much at my wits end too, the level of incompetence is stunning, Cogent bandwidth past 6pm is totally useless and has been for weeks, I think the tech staff must be morons :( or if they are not then they are not being allowed to fix things which doesn't make any sense either !

I've an idea - every time you come across a site that doesn't work properly with the proxies, raise a responstek form, one for each site - maybe if they get hundreds of complaints they will have to do something.

Other than that or leaving I'm fresh out of ideas, they suck, badly.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

just clicked your link no problems here and i dont mess with proxys :)

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

I managed to access your site but I have specified bagu-cache-4.server.ntli.net instead the default proxy.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

I have some members on baguely, some on the std, but the fault still happens ONLY with NTL connections. I just cant get my head around HOW this happens if it is such a common complaint and why there is not a procedure in place to get it sorted.


Chrysalis, I will contact my host with that advice, could you expand on why it would make a difference though please

cheers

leigh

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

Now the big question is why the hell isnt 'network management' contactable by the public.
__________________

Random issue my friend, it works for you doesnt mean there is no issue. It may not work for the guy down the street and he cycles proxies onto yours then it works. Then 3 days later it might not work on your proxy but does again on the other. Its a neverending affect.
__________________

At this point I am seriously considering it, currently on 2mbit for £9.99 after retentions (the only decent people @ ntl I can contact who can act for the customer) understood the service is abysmal and begged me to stay but even at that price it is tempting to leave for a service that just works how it should. I would have to order a BT line and hope my landlord doesnt find out and then pay for 2 line rentals and a more expensive isp, so for around an extra £40 a month I am still considering a move.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

I wonder how you managed to get 2mbit for £9.99 the rest of us are paying £24.99 for the same service. I have tried the site with all manc proxies some managed to load the site others didn't. Perhaps NTL should have an online form that customers can fill in when they find a site that fails to load on the default proxy but loads on a specified one, then look into the reasons this happens then come up with a fix for it.

Re: Banging my head against a brick wall!!!
 

Well it should have been the 1mbit for 9.99 but i got boosted because I am on analogue and have a lower level of service then digital peeps.

One thing I want to say is I am not on a discount simply because I am been a cheapskate, I will pay more for better service and NTL for me at least is quite poor at the moment in almost all aspects, only the phone is what I consider satisfactory. If you feel your service is poor and unhappy you are paying more for the same poor service then ring up yourself and complain, perhaps the more people that do it then the more likely NTL will get of their backside and do something. NTL was good when I first signed up for around 5 months, I was not using proxies (off for some reason), and there was little problems with congestion so I was very happy paying £34.99 for 1mbit. Its not all about whats on the packaging, its about what lies underneath.