My foot slipped
 

BBC
Mmm learner driver with 3 mates in the car at the seaside, none of who had a driving license?
Denying causing death by dangerous driving, dangerous driving and wounding?
Now under the care of mental health professionals and taking tranquilisers.
A cynic would think that he was trying to get off the charges via a mental health angle :erm: Good thing I'm not a cynic....

Re: My foot slipped
 

But I am...and I can see no remiting circumstances what so ever in this case.

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i am , and i reckon he is :mad: , tbh the standard of driving atm is atrocious , i was waiting for the wife today and in the space of 15 mins i saw at least 15 cars drive straight over a zebra crossing without giving a flying **** about any pedestrians :mad: :mad: :mad:

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.................He's just trying it on, what a callous bast*rd :mad: :upyours:

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I myself am a learner, I learn with my father in the car all insured, This guy is nothing more then a scaper who is making out he was learning when we all know, he was illegally driving without a care for any bugger.

He deserves the full weight of justice for this.

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Looks like we're doing it again......

The death is a tradgedy, but if this man truly has mental health problems, then he can't really be blamed can he?

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Where does it state he is mentally ill?

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You have to be winding us up!? :erm:
My hearts bleeding..........he must have known that he wasn't allowed to be driving a car.........and yet he did........he then killed a toddler and horrifically injured an adult........and you are saying that he can't really be blamed? :rolleyes:

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Paul said he was being supervised by mental health professionals and is on tranquilisers?

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go shake your head and come back to this thread ;) , classic copout in my opinion , it seems to me to be too easy to claim mental health problems to get out of paying your pennance :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

because he is 'claiming' to suffer from them ;)

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I am mentally Ill myself, but I damn well make sure I am legal, it is not a method or excuse to get out of breaking the law.

He deserves what he gets for this and any defending of him is just plain wrong.

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That being the point, if he truly has mental health problems then it's a different matter all together, wether he should be fully absolved of fault is questionable though.
From the link supplied
It is unfortunate that so many people in the legal profession are targeting mental health as a way to try and get their clients found not guilty. There are no doubt people who do have psychological problems or mental health issues and these people should be helped but there are also a lot of people being absolved of guilt through the courts because their lawyers have falsely claimed mental health issues or the defendant themselves have looked to fool the system by claiming (sp) mental health issues.
I for one do not think that this person should be allowed to get away with his stupidity, he obviously thought nothing of driving 3 of his mates around with L plates on the car. They obviously thought nothing of it either, maybe this isn't the first time he has driven passengers in the car without a license holder in the car?
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Oh and there was another report on the BBC site
Linky
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2005/06/15.jpg

Re: My foot slipped
 

Looks like I'm getting a bit of a roasting here, anywho, I agree that if he was completely aware of what he was doing, then he is responciable, but if he genuinely has a mental condition, then should he be fully responciable??

Theres a good chance he is claiming to be mental to get himself out of trouble, but his condition could be genuine and could have only have been recognised as a result of the accident.

Innocent till proven guilty...

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I'm afraid that it is entirely irelevant whether he is was as neither condition had any effect or connection to the fact that he was driving UNSUPERVISED as a learner driver.There was simply no excuse for him to have been parking or driving any car at all in any circumstance.

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But if he was driving the car without a qualified driver in there supervising him, that's a bit suss anyway? :shrug:
(Not wishing to roast you btw! ;) )

Beaten by Coggy LOL

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Why wont this country pull its finger out and take a hard stance on this kind of thing? I bet he gets (max) 10 years.

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I'll bet you next month's pay that he won't even get 5

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10 years? I'll be surprised if he gets 5 - the defence being that he didn't intend to kill or injure anyone when he got in the car, so it's not a pre-meditated act like going after someone with a gun.

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Just another solicitor clutching at mental issues to try and gain some salvation for a guilty client, happens far to often these days IMO. :(

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But is it not? If he is not licensed to drive, is it not (in a way) a pre-meditated act? He knows that, for probably a good reason (doesnt know how to drive/ been banned), he is not legaly allowed to drive, so it is his negligence when he got in that car that killed the child?

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He intended to drive, he did not intend to kill anybody - although it could be argued that he knew that was a risk.

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Absolutely, I agree entirely with what you are saying - I'm just saying it from a legal standpoint, no doubt what his solicitor will use in his defence :(

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On that reasoning, "he fired the gun but did not think the bullet would hit anyone" :shrug:

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Depends where he was pointing it, and whether there are grounds to believe that he could reasonably have expected it to hit someone.

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yes, one view, another is that by knowingly operating a vehicle without a suitable licence you are in unauthorised possession of a weapon just as deadly as a gun. :shrug:

sorry for the melodrama, it wasn't aimed at Chimeara especially, but hers was a good post to hang it on, just my :2cents: , though.

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But when he was parking the car he could not have reasonably expected to hit anybody.

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Which is along the same lines as my post #21.....

He intended to drive, his intention (when he set out in the car) wasn't to kill someone. Therefore it can't be pre-meditated man-slaughter/murder.....

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Crikey Homer - that's what my driving test examiner said when I had passed my driving test - to be careful now I had passed as a car was as dangerous as a gun!
(I know you weren't aiming it at me! ;) )

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Thats a silly analogy - Your aiming a gun, you drop it - nothing happens.
Your driving a car, you let go - you generaly hit someone/thing.

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But Roy wasn't suggesting that he had dropped the gun. He was suggesting that "he fired the gun but did not think the bullet would hit anyone".

My analogy is built on that.

I drive my car, but I don't expect to hit anyone. I do realise that it is a risk. If I point my car at a crowd of people and then drive it I am likely to hit someone.

The difference comes down to intent. If I point a gun into the air it is (highly) unlikely that I will hit anybody, however if I point my gun into a crowd it is (highly) likely that I will hit someone.

In Roy's example, if I were to say "sorry, I didn't think it would hit anybody" after deliberatly driving/aiming towards a crowd of people then I would obviously be talking crap.

However (dragging this back on topic) the learner driver was parking his car, he did not expect to hit someone, he was not parking it intentionally to hit someone, therefore it isn't pre-meditated. The only pre-meditated acts were: driving the car not in accordance with the licencing conditions, driving whilst uninsured.

He is certainly not going to be found guilty of pre-meditated murder.

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He's still killed someone and seriously injured another though, whatever the motive/reasons behind it :(

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I'm not denying that, and I'm not defending what he did, we got to this point in the discussion by talking about the sentance he may/may not receive.

I was trying to ilustrate that it is unlikely to be as severe a sentance as you would get for murder/manslaughter because there was no real intent - any more than there is any intent to kill in any road accident.

The fact that he was an unsupervised learner will certainly count against him, but he will not receive a sentance anywhere near that of a convicted murderer.

Personally I would be suprised if he gets anything more than a couple of years, and that's if he gets a custodial sentance at all.....

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If its being expressed this way - he aimed the gun at the people - didn't intend to pull the trigger. Doesn't matter anyway - in my view, he should be locked for life (thats life, not 45 years or whatever it may be), because he took a risk when he went out without a license, and must live by the consequences.

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Anxiety and sleeping problems?! I could go to the GP and say that I was anxious and had problems sleeping! I will only accept major mental illnesses in this case........and if he has one of those (and it led him to kill) then all I can say is 'they shoot horses don't they?' :afire:
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However, he should be found guilty of manslaughter and given the max sentence because he was driving a car that was pointed at a beach full of people and he really had no idea how to drive it. If he was put in front of me right now I would have no hesitation in maiming him........

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Isn't declaring a mental heath problem a priviso on obtaining a provisional licence these days?
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Hardly pointing his car at a beach full of people.

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He didn't have mental health problems when the accident occured. He has been treated for them since the accident.

Although, some might argue that driving unsupervised, whilst not having a full licence, after having previously had an accident already, and having been warned by the driving instructor that you needed another 60 hours of lessons..........

Re: My foot slipped
 

Even after my 40+ years driving it would effect me if i killed someone by accident, think i would be popping pills.

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Erm........yes it is...........he was in a car, it was pointed at a beach, the beach had people on it, and he pressed the accelerator......:dozey:
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Thats right....after the event.............

Re: My foot slipped
 

Over a beach wall, he could not see what was over/behind it.

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A car wouldn't go through a beach wall......he was obviously parked above a beach and he drove over the edge onto the sand..........
edit.........see pic..........

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Whats a learner driver doing in such a powerful car? Its a BMW 7 series which (i believe) has a min. of a 2.5L engine - A lot of car to be throwing around as a learner.

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That shows where the car ended up, not the scenario of the full events, not condoning it just trying to get it into perspective.

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It couldn't have ended up on the beach if it had to drive through a beach wall...........he must have just driven off a sea defence wall.........

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Being down here in Portsmouth I've heard a bit more of this story and IIRC the situation was that it was a car park *on top* of the beach wall and when the car moved forward it went over the edge and down onto the beach.

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I've not heard much about this story Graham.Did anyone at anytime mention how long this bloke had been a learner driver?Weeks,months,years possibly?And had he ever attempted a driving test?

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http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...3&postcount=12
Accident occured in July 2004, he'd been learning since January 2004, so it seems that after roughly 5 months on an L plate he decided to drive his mates to the beach.

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Sorry, that's all I remember offhand and the Portsmouth News archive doesn't seem to want to produce any stories about it for some reason.

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Wow and he had an accident before when he rolled into another driver. Oh come on he's just trying to cop out of charges. I still am a learner driver becasue I can't take my test due to health reasons etc etc. However, I would NEVER get into a car unsupervised and I would definetely not take my firends to the local beach and drive or reverse over a wall. It sounds as though he wasn't capable in the fierst place. Didn't his driving instructor say he was a low ability driver who needed 60 hours or more of one to one tuition?

Sorry he may be suffering now but he isn't suffereing as much as that family is , or dead is he ? I hope the full extent of the law is thrown at him and he does so me time inside where people dont' like individuals who take advantage of situations where they DO Have control.

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A learner driver whose car sped over a sea wall killing a two-year-old boy on the beach below has been found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving. Paul Cambray, 45, of Ryde, Isle of Wight, was unsupervised when he tried to park at a beachside car park at Yaverland, on the island last July.

Toddler Maximillian Young's family, of Fulham, welcomed the verdict but called for a crash barrier at the crash scene. The judge warned Cambray he faced a lengthy prison sentence.

But Cambray was not in court to hear the verdict against him as he is at a psychiatric unit undergoing assessment, Portsmouth Crown Court was told

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Wonder what will happen now :rolleyes:
BBC

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Sorry to appear a Dumbass! Who`s car exactly was it?

And why was a learner driver behind the wheel of a 3.5 litre BMW?:confused: :shocked:

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It was the learner drivers vehicle and lord knows why he had a 3.5 litre BMW but unfortunately there are no limitations on what cars learners or newly passed drivers can operate :(

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Yes there are - You cant insure a 3.5 7-Series under the age of 25 (at least not if you dont want to pay 15k for it - and you have to have insurance!

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Just an update, the driver responsible for the death has been jailed for 8 years.
BBC

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I can see no point to the last two sentences unless they run "consecutively".

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Just read this whole thread. What a sad story, and what a stupid, inconsiderate individual.

Eight years is a strong sentence, and I hope he serves every day of it. However, he will probably serve more like a half. However, that is still a strong sentence, and :tu: to the judge for that.