Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

I have had an email address with totalise for years, and have used it fine with ntl up until a few days ago. Now, whenever I try to send an email using my totalise email address to another totalise address, it bounces.

"Your message was not delivered because the return address was refused."

"The return address was <my.address@totalise.co.uk>"

It was sent using the ntlworld smtp server, yet it also says:

"81.103.221.48 is not allowed to send mail from totalise.co.uk"

The IP, 81.103.221.48, is ntl's, so just how am I sending mail from totalise? I'm using smtp.ntlworld.com, but specifying my totalise address as my return email address, as I've done for the past couple of years.

Is this some kind of spam measure? Can someone explain please...?

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

Think it's a spam measure due to your return address. Since it's different to the information used to send it the servers are probably marking it as spam and refusing to allow it through.
It could also be that the mail server has been blacklisted again for spam lol

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

The email was bounced by ntl - "Please reply to <Postmaster@ispmail.ntl.com>" - so are you saying that maybe ntl's mail server will not deliver email sent by an ntl customer who's using a totalise return address, because they've had a spam problem with totalise addresses...?

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

It's just one way they try to spot spam, your sending an email through NTL's server with a return address of a different email server. This probably triggered a spam filter and got it bounced back to you. Unfotunately they are tightening spam control etc these days and it is affecting some email traffic. Also some of NTLs email servers have been blacklisted by other providers because of spam being spent from NTL addresses.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

It only seems to be emails to totalise addresses that bounce. I can send emails to other addresses using my totalise address as a return address.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

I expect that the totalise servers are rejecting mail that claim to be from a totalise address but don't originate from a totalise mail server. Actually a pretty sensible spam precaution.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

Agree - the originating mail server IP is NTL but the address is totalise. It would flag up as a spam trait.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

So are you saying that totalise itself is rejecting it? Not ntl? Like I said, it's been fine for a couple of years and has only just started happening...

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

A lot of ISPs are trying to tighten the controls and filters for Spam these days, some times the filters create more trouble than they solve though.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

It looks that way, yes. I know I can send emails from @ppfm.net using NTL's SMTP server, without problems. The phrase that you quote "81.103.221.48 is not allowed to send mail from totalise.co.uk" suggests that totalise's server is rejecting the email because it's not originating from one of its servers but appears to have (due to the reply-to address). Going a bit too far IMHO.

Totalise server...

Cooo - another email. Sez it's from one of our lot but nope - not our server address is that. Nasty wasty spammers - send it back.

Which is a bit of an assumption really given that many, many non-spammers send email via another ISPs SMTP server.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

Thanks for the explanation.

Is there any point in complaining to totalise about it? Are they likely to turn down their spam filter...?

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

Probably not - one man taking on a company is the terrority of Channel 4 documentaries :D Security is always a balance between security and functionality - the most secure PC has no floppy drive and no Internet connection. Not much use though. At the moment, there's a lot of hype and fear surrounding security, most of it whipped up by the press and those with an interest in selling security products. Many people, and many companies, are making knee-jerk, reactionary decisions. Just make the best of it. I'm waiting for NTL to introduce spam filtering - the ensuing chaos will be interesting.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

And besides.. Totalise will just tell you to dial into them to use their mail servers.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

This is all probably related the issue I had last week, where ntl's email servers' IP ranges were blacklisted by MAPS and SpamCop. Totalise probably check the originating IPs against the blacklist and reject accordingly.

Agree, ntl's outgoing mail is already borked, so I look forward to all the incoming receiving a similar treatment!

Interestingly, up until recently whenever I have submitted an email to SpamCop for processing ntl have got a copy automatically (SpamCop stating that they are an 'intermediary interesting in the handling of spam') so one presumes that they have been teaching their spam filter though ntl's customers that use SpamCop.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

The MAPS issue was resolved the same say it occured. As already expounded above, Totalise now appear to be bouncing external mail with a totalise address. Among other things this will prevent the recent upsurge of bagle-type viruses that come from a spoofed ISP support address so I believe it's actually a pretty good idea.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

we have had this problem at Uni where people are sending email via NTL and JANET RBL is rejecting the email..! Guess some of the problem is down to people have viruses on their machine and not realising it which then causes the NTL address to be placed on the RBL

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

Not so sure myself about it being a good idea. Like I said - an awful lot of people use the mail services provided by a company other than their ISP, but still use their ISP's mail server to send email. My mail provider, Pepperfish (@ppfm.net), don't even have SMTP servers - just POP. All mail servers prevent mail relaying (or they should...) so there's no chance of using an SMTP server other than your ISP's - unless the server uses authentication, which very few do. The only time I've encountered it was at Uni - because of JANET.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

The MAPS issue was not resolved the same day, it was the next day and SpamCop was still blacklisting two days after that.

I appreciate the idea of blocking return addresses that don't match the ISP sending might work on paper...however in reality there are millions of people that own a domain name but send via their own ISP. This will affect all of those who use their domain's email addresses...as such I think it's a stupid idea.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

umm.. he doesn't own the totalise domain, it's a rival ISP.
I'm also not talking about blocking return addresses that don't match the ISP, but incoming addresses that do match the ISP but don't originate from the ISPs mailservers.
Mytob (and bagle before it) send emails that claim to be from support@isp.com or administrator@isp.com etc with messages like "your account has been cancelled" etc. fred@isp.com panics, tried to run the attached file then calls his ISP to find out why he was send this email and why the attached file wouldn't open. Totalise will get less of those calls as the emails will only get through if the person infected is also a Totalise customer.
There are flaws in the system as Digidragon discovered, but to me it makes a lot of sense. And if anyone complains Totalise can just say "well, why are you trying to use a totalise email address if you're not using our service anyway?"

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

I don't understand how that would be different for someone sending whilst using their own domain name as the address they claim to be sending from....I'm probably missing something simple, but I really don't see the difference.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

Well, I do actually pay for their JustMail service. It used to be free, but they started charging about a year ago unless you actually dialled into totalise. I still use it as it's very reliable, and I want an ISP-independent email address.

Anyway, as part of the service they offered me a free domain name. So, using that new email address (me@whatever.me.uk) I can send mail to other totalise addresses without it bouncing.

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

Hi, I have just had two emails sent back to me saying that they had been refused by a remote email server. They were to two totally different places.Is this for the same reason as the answer to the original posters question please? I was using ntls webmail service. Thanks. :waving:

Re: Not delivered because the return address was refused
 

What are the remote email servers and what is the exact error message?