School stands up for discipline and rules
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4608655.stm

And quite right too, in my view. That'll teach the chavster a lesson.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Now, now, mention the c word and you will only get lynched ;)
I think the school is right, the student knew his footwear wasn't allowed but just because he got away with it normally he thought he could wear them to his exams where they do tend to enforce rules more strictly.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I'm with Scouse on this - he knew the school rules and I don't see it being their fault that he got away with it for so long.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Pretty much nailed as well.

There's no official guideline on dress code for exams, except that it's at the discretion of a centre as to whether a candidate is suitably dressed to sit an exam or not.

These rules were made clear to the candidates, if he was unsure as to its suitability then he should have checked or asked for dispensation if he had a genuine reason. He's sixteen and old enough to realise.

It's about time discipline in schools was enforced more strictly. Bring back the birch.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Well, if a company allows its staff to do something against their rules, such as using the internet access to visit non-work related sites, then they cannot discipline an employee out of the blue for doing it.

Had the school reminded everyone just prior to this incident what the uniform rules were, and then enforced the rules without exception, then they can do this.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I'm not sure it says it "allowed" him to break the rules?

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

The student is quoted as saying he has worn the footwear to school for a while though, which is what I think Xaccers is talking about.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Just because the school didn't notice doesn't mean they approved his footwear!

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

i know rules are rules but he said that he had been wearing them since april without a problem so it is unfair that on a exam he is told he is breaking uniform rules.

he also has a medical condition which disallowed him from using shoes provided by the school.

i think its hugely unfair that for a long time he was wearing them when it came to an exam he was told 'no' :disturbd:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

It doesn't say the school allowed him to wear them - just because they didn't notice doesn't mean they were allowing it.

And I don't think he had a medical reason for not wearing the shoes the school provided - it's just a matter of general hygeine.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

He knew what the rules were, the onus is on HIM to check.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

If he did have a medical issue that was the reason for wearing the other footwear it soon cleared up when he was not allowed to enter his exams

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

i know it didnt say that, however teaches should have noticed that the footwear was inappropriate for school and warned jim before the exam, which they failed to do so.

its way too harsh im my opinion a simple warning should have sufficed, exams are important to be disallowed to sit them on a small technicality is absolutely appaling, are we going to value a persons education and future over a pair of shoes :erm:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Well as Paul said, it soon 'cleared up'.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

ok i was still reading the article, if he did intentionally wear them with full knowledge he was breaking the dress code then i agree.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

If he was TOLD there would be an enforced dress code it is HIS PROBLEM if he decides to breach it. No-one else's.

If he was allowed to breach it, then other pupils could (to be fair) then do the same- which is the same as effectively telling the dress code to f*ck off.

what condition's that then, chavviness?

Let's be fair- if he had a genuine medical reason to flaunt the dress code, then he should have produced doctor's note documenting the condition, and why he has to wear trainers (although, I'd say trainers were worse for feet than shoes as they seem to be mainly plastic which makes your feet sweat) and take that to the school before the exam period asking for dispensation.

As I previously said, dress code for exams is at the discretion of the centre. If someone decides to breach the rules, if they've been given notice of the rules, then that's their problem.

I can't see how the kid has a leg to stand on. We had to do exams in full uniform as well even in the summer.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

When my daughters took their GCSE exams a letter came home the week before, reminding all the candidates that although they were off timetable they were still 'at school' and full, correct uniform was to be worn at all times. Of course some of them tried to 'bend' the rules and turned up with forbidden items of jewellery etc - they were told to conform to the rules or be excluded from the exam! They soon complied with the rules ;)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Ours were the same. We had to wear jackets / ties, full uniform, even in the summer, well we had to take them in- once we were inside the room we could take ties/jackets off.

They also said they had the right to stop us taking the exams if we "didn't look smart"...

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

yes i agree i retracted those statements i made i was still reading the article till the end bit was pointed out :)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Makes me wonder sometimes.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Actually now I come to think about it, one pupil was allowed not to wear school uniform to take the exams............but as her baby was 2 weeks overdue, it was more a case of what she could fit into! :Yikes:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Pfft, all that typing for nothing :mad:
__________________

Yeah but that's a valid reason.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I agree with nffc on this fair enough if you are pregnant, then yeah it is the case of whatever fits at the time. But why didnt the boy send a letter into school before the exams had started then?? I bet they would have accomdated him then!
If I go to work in the wrong shoes I get made to change them.
He looks a right chav anyway, I hate these kids who love to make a point and then kick off because they have lost. He knows what to do in future then!

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

If the school noticed his lack of appropriate shoes before the exams and did nothing, but then decided to send him home 20 mins before the start of an exam, that is totally wrong.
However, even if they turned a blind eye to it, but then sent out a reminder to all pupils that they were to wear appropriate shoes for the exams, then they are entitled to do this, although I still think he should have been given a warning rather than made to miss the exam.

Something tells me we aren't getting the whole story here from both sides.
It could be that he was looking at a fail anyway, and excluding him from the exam would be marked as a no-show rather than lowering the schools grades (assuming that in secondary schools that is the case with the results)
At my school, several years after I left, pupils had to re-take an exam because the average grade was so low.
They had to do this after school and what ever result they achieved it would not change the original one.
It was simply a punishment from the head for the pupils low interest in the subject

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I take it I'm the only one who disagrees with the school's decision then?

What harm could wearing the shoes possibly have done during the exam? What good could enforcing this rule have done? What a waste of time and money - educating the student throughout the two year course and paying for the exam entry (about £40 I believe), only to not allow him to take the exam? Quite pathetic really. Even if it's just for the sake of not wasting the school's time and money they should have let him take the exam.

*Hides*

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

God thats a first!!! But I think the school were hoping that he would come in correct atire so they must of thought let him get on with it.
Kids nowadays will try and get away with anything today, this includes wearing the incorrect uniforms.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

So what if you decided it was OK to drive at 70 in a 40 zone because you thought it was a "silly rule" and killed someone- regardless of the rule, its background or its consequences, it's still a rule, and it still needs to be abided by.

No-one has the RIGHT to take an exam especially if they deliberately break pre-informed rules.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Makes me glad i have never gone into my school without one piece of incorrect uniform.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

If a school wants its rules to be followed then it must enforce them all the time.
If it fails to do this then it should not punish someone for breaking the rules that everyone else has been allowed to break without prior warning or continued rule enforcement.
All this kid now has to do is find another kid in the school who's still attending and not wearing the correct shoes and he can use that as an example of being singled out.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

But surely wearing the wrong type of shoes isn't comparable to deathly driving? Whose lives are being put at risk by wearing those shoes? But yes you are right when you say rules ought to be followed. What I am trying to say is that if I were a teacher in that school who taught that pupil, I would be rather frustrated at the fact that the time and energy spent with the pupil on teaching the subject was completely wasted because of a rule like that, if the student isn't qualified for it then that is two years worth of his lessons wasted. So I would say an exception to the rule in this case should have been made.

Not necessarily for the pupil's sake, for the school's sake.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

This is ridiculous. So what if he was wearing trainers? Will the world descend into anarchy if some teenager wears the wrong footwear to an exam?

His mother has got it right. If it's so important for him to wear shoes they should have let him take the exam this time and insisted he change for the rest of the exams.

The school needs to get a sense of proportion and understand what the point of education is in the first place.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

And some people need to understand what the point of rules are, why have them and not enforce them?
If a student is aware of a uniform or dress code then what excuse has that student got to ignore the rules just because they are doing exams?
I'm sure the student in question is not the first to be sent home from exams due to not adhering to the rules.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Absolutely - I believe discipline and respect for authority begins at home but when you consider teens often see their teachers more than their own parents, it's not unreasonable to expect the schools to rigorously enforce their regulations.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I don't see the problem here. Of course he shouldn't be allowed into an exam with trainers on. Every school toughens up when the exams come around, Im pretty sure if I turned up to an exam with stubble, I'd get turned away point blank, and I shave before exams because I know the rules.

All students are issued with school rules, its a teaching establishment, not a playschool, if you don't conform then you shouldnt be there.

As for saying this doesn't cause anarchy - of course it doesn't but the line has to be drawn somewhere doesn't it?

I wouldn't like to think any school would bend their rules, whether it be for wearing trainers instead of shoes, or bullying someone...

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I think he should have been allowed to take the exam but given a written warning saying the next time he will not be allowed in

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Then there should not be any rules then! And then imagine what society would be like if there were no rules, this country would be even scarier than what it is now!!!!!

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I agree. I think its pathetic that they are potentially ruining this lads english grade for the sake of his footware. I said potentially because as has allready been said he may well have allready been a fail.

I do understand the importance of a dresscode for these sort of things, they are to stop distractions, and also to a lesser extent make it more difficult to smuggle cheating materials into an exam. I just dont see what harm black half-trainer things would have really done for one exam. Fair enough if he was stupid enough to do it again through the book at him (followed by the bookcase followed by the whole library).

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

20/20 hindsight, of course ;) but I agree that would have been a better way to deal with it :)

I can see the problem if someone turns up to an exam with a pink mohican & is a distraction to the other candidates, but black trainers is not a sufficient abuse of the rules to warrant exclusion from the exam, in my opinion. :shrug:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

There are some rules wich are more important than others, would you compare this to something like parking in an ambulance bay? or a fire escape? How about theft? no, clearly its nothing like those, its not a rule that should be broken either but I do think they could have bent on it at least once.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Children have to be learnt from an early age, rules are rules, they are there for a reason, this school had a uniform and they stick by that, if they let every single child off then their would be no point in having rules.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I remember certain people coming into the exams last year with trainers, but instead of the teachers saying change them or get kicked out of the exam, they gave the people with trainers a warning. If they were found wearing trainers in the next exam then they would get kicked out (but if the exam was like 30 minutes after the other one, then it would be the next day, not next exam).

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

And see, the world didnt end when Electrolytes school did this, I cant see it coming crumbling down now ;)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

When I was at school and it happened at nursing college, they made the person take them off!!! and they could pick them up at the end of the exam. But the kid was given the option, to take off or change

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

This was what they did when I did my exams too, I wonder if this was the case in the example in the article, if it is then I guess your right, the little scrote probably was just being unreasonable.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

He looked the type, he probally gave them a load of lip to.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

But wouldn't that be as bad as wearing incorrect footwear?

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Possibly worse. He could have smelly feet.

I think this whole thing is ridiculous. Sure, give the kid a warning, and throw him out of the next exam if he does it again, but I really don't see what purpose is served by refusing him entry. This school needs to get a sense of proportion.

Unless of course we are only hearing half the story here (which wouldn't surprise me)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

No, I think it's ridiculous and a totally OTT reaction.

Fine, *normally* if someone's breaching the school's dress code, yes, send them home to change, but that won't usually result in them missing an important exam!

It would have been much more sensible to give him a warning and let him take the exam. If he came to the next one still wearing them, then it's his own fault.

And frankly I wouldn't want to wear someone else's shoes!
__________________

What on *EARTH* are you talking about?

How the hell can you compare someone wearing an inappropriate pair of shoes with *KILLING SOMEONE*???

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

K' chill out. :erm:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Its "taught".

My, what a lot of perfect little 16 year old kids we all must have been. Never wore the wrong thing to school, misbehaved in class, had a quick smoke or snog behind the bike sheds.

This judgement was way out of proportion. As some posters have already said, he should have been given the oportunity to take the exam, with a stern warning to not do it again.

If he had a medical reason not to wear someone elses shoes maybe it was because he didn't want to infect the shoes with athletes foot or something. Personally, I wouldn't wear someone elses shoes in case THEY have athletes foot or a verruca.

The school has a duty of care towards pupils and this decision has not only caused him to miss an exam but may be detrimental to his entire performance at a crucial stage of his education. In fact, the fact that it has made the bbc news website probably means that the whole school and surrounding schools are probably all talking about it and it is causing a distraction to all the pupils.

Those on this thread saying things like he looks like a chav and the type to cause trouble must be VERY good judges of character to be able to tell from 1 photo.

If the school did this out of some nefarious plot to cook the school league tables then in my opinion whoever took the decision needs to lose their job. I'd be interested to know what his result in the mock exam was. I wonder if they'd have sent an A* pupil home.

Kudos to Diamond and a few others here for not jumping on the holier-than-though bandwagon.

Yes, rules need to be enforced but with a bit of common sense and this was a bad decision.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

So was wearing the wrong shoes.

Why should schools be blackmailed into accepting lower standards of school behaviour just because pupils, for whatever reason, want to flout the rules?

Being responsible for your actions and planning for eventialities is all part of being independent.It's time that some school children learned that.

It's fine to ask adults to use common sense but we also need children to exercise some as well.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

If he had a legitimate medical reason for not wearing his proper school shoes since April then surely he or his parents would have told the school this via letter?
This to me makes it seem like he had not informed the school of any medical reason why he couldn't wear his shoes and the only reason why he hadn't been told to change them till now was because they looked like shoes from a distance.
It's not as though the school doesn't make it's pupils aware of the uniform requirement http://www.temple.medway.sch.uk/uniform.htm

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

But that's not the way society works!

Look at the 'rules' in your job contract - can you honestly say that you always comply with them to the letter? Never made a personal phone call on company time? :erm:

Half the threads in the basement (I may exaggerate slightly ;)) seem to be from people whining about getting caught by speed cameras because they've been, err, speeding. 'Rules is rules' isn't a very popular argument on those threads.

And I'm sure some of the posters on this thread of the 'they should throw the book at the chav scrote and there's no leeway in the rules' persuasion are the same ones who say 'I personally think the speed limits wrong, so the law doesnt apply to me; everyone does it; i probably wouldnt have killed anyone if I'd had a crash; my speedos crap so I shouldnt have to be expected to look at it; it was a clear evening so they should have a bit of discretion' etc etc etc. :rolleyes:

My point is: when it's us who are breaking the rules - and we do it all the time - we expect a bit of leeway if leeway is reasonable and no one else suffers because of it. So why shouldn't teenagers be able to expect the same? After all, school is about preparing kids for adulthood ..... ;)

BTW - allie - just cos I quoted you doesn't mean I'm referring to you about the speed cameras bit - I'm not !! :)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Didnt he say someone elses shoes, not shoes themselves.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

He is saying that the boundary has to be drawn somewhere, it is a simple concept, you can't accept one rule and say anouther is stupid, just because thats your opinion.

It is comparable, because they are both rules...

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

But the it read was to suggest that just because the effects of breaking one rule could be as serious as killing someone, that no rule should ever be broken. Which is daft ;)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Have you ever downloaded music on a P2P or had a drink at your age? I'll bet you have. And that is breaking a rule set by the government.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Having read through the this thread I'm amused that those I expected to be on this students sides were who I expected and those not were who I expected.

However I did think allie might have been on the lad's side.That was the joker in the pack.. :Yikes:

Come September teachers will no longer be required to invigilate exams as part of a new agreement on teacher's duties.Should be interesting to see what happens about such rules then..

Carry on... :rofl:

Oh and I bet he did give it some lip but under the circumstances that was only to be expected-after all he had got out of bed especially for the exam.. :rofl:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

OK who stole a posting? :erm:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Blooming chavs, they'll nick anything that's not nailed down ;)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Sorry - that was me - brain took a short holiday .... :dunce:


Please insert your own comments about my brain here:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Hey coogy I aint a rebel, and if you must know me and my twin were swots at school!!!! Sorry to burst any bubbles you have of me!!!!
I think that is why we both have done well!!! I thought there would be the odd person to say 'hey it isnt right'.
I would not dare use a phone in works hours, I use my mobile in the loo if I need Paul. My job is unstable all the time so I darent risk it!

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

OK, I've been away so missed all the excitement and 5 pages is too much for my addled brain to work through right now so....apologies if point already made but what is more important: what's inside someone's head or what's on someone's feet?


Frankly if that is all a school's got to worry about then lives need to be got in the classroom.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Well actually, yes, I *CAN* say that I can accept one rule whilst saying that another is stupid, indeed, I've just done it!

I can also say that the end result of someone not wearing the right pair of shoes is *IN NO WAY* comparable to an act that could end up with someone's death!

A sense of proportion is a simple concept too...

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Do they work under water? I keep mine in my pocket.

Back on topic, we all have the right to break rules if they are absurd or restrictive. It's up to society to decide whether the rule breaker or the rule writer is in the wrong (usually, of course, it's the rule breaker and a jolly good thing too, but the right is important).

For example, one of my teachers was a prominent poll tax rebel - he made a decision to disobey the law (along with thousands of others) because he fundamentally disagreed with it (along with thousands of others). Eventually society decided that in this case the rule writers were wrong and the tax was scrapped.

Mind you, with teachers like that no wonder I turned out a liberal - that's not even mentioning the prominent union activist, the Marxist and the SWP member. And now the place is a 'college' with a 'principal', specialising in science, an Investor in People and has a Sportsmark or some such. And they've abolished the three houses they had when I was there. Going to the dogs, the place is *mutter mutter*.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

What a complete bunch of jobsworth to**ers. There was absolutely no need to send this person home just for the sake of a pair of trainers - esp when they appear to have said nothing on previous occasions. Why do you need to wear a uniform for exams anyway - you don't have to attend school the rest of the time.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Agreed but they have rules - you cannot choose when to obey them.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Exactly my argument- or indeed, you can't choose which rules to obey either!

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Think that's the point, the student in question chose to ignore the school rules on uniform. In doing so he placed himself at risk of being sent home during his exams, yes the teacher could have allowed him to sit the exam that morning and made sure he knew it wouldn't be tolerated for following exams but the teacher chose to enforce the rules.
Not all choices that we make in life turn out to be the right ones, accepting that we made a mistake and were at fault is a better way of dealing with the situation than complaining to the media about a situation that we created for ourselves in my opinion.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Yes, he could have, but given the importance of exams it would have IMO been more sensible and reasonable if the teacher chose to exercise a bit of discretion rather than bloody-mindedly sticking to the rules.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Fair point, but since when was it acceptable to choose which rules to stick to and which to break - and whether to be allowed to break rules if you think they're "silly" or something equally pathetic?

And if it is deemed acceptable, surely that would lead to disobedience, lawlessness and eventually anarchy?

Maybe extreme but we have enough chavs who think they can do what they blooming well want to, and I for one will applaud the teacher and the school for sticking up for the rules.

Whether or not the rule is silly... personally I believe it is but then we had to have the same rule (in fact, we were told if we pratted too much before going on leave for A2s the school would stop us taking the exams full stop!)... well, that's a completely different argument.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

My son's school has a great new rule at his school. A card to carry on you at all times. Pionts deducted for being late , shirt button missing tie loose ect. 12 Points and you get a detention. Does this remind you of nazi's??."Papers Please". The school has turned to the Darkside. The teachers now have become power crazed. I have allready had a little chat to the headmaster. I did call him a few names. I did ask him to meet me outside the school to have a nice little one on one. But he declined my good generous offer. I even had a chat with The Board of Governors over other issues. The whole place smelt of raw sewage. The headmaster has his wife and even his daughter teaching there.

The School says it benefits the community ect. The school is a joke

How sick is that?????????????????

Very:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Nope, in all fairness, I think it's a bloody good idea!

It will teach the little darlings some blooming respect hopefully!

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Like my respect for the school:D

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

im going to have to agree with this system, you rack up the points because of misdemeanours then if you get enough you can automatically face the nessecary punishment.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I didn't say it was "acceptable" for him to break the rules, nor that he should be "allowed" to break the rules, nor even that this rule was "silly", however I don't think that what the teacher did was reasonable.

All he needed to do was to say "ok, because it's your exams I'll let you stay *today*, but if you come in with those tomorrow you're out".

Have you been reading the Daily Mail?? This is the sort of remark that they tend to come out with.

This is the same logic that starts with "zero tolerance" policies and ends with "three strikes" laws that result in people being given 20 year jail sentences for stealing a slice of pizza.

For more about the failures of ZT see http://endzerotolerance.com/zerotolerance_articles.htm
or http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/200...ero_tolerance/ for what happened when American Schools started implementing ZT policies!

Note where the second article says:

Psychologically, such punishments can be devastating. They offer little in the way of instructive value, and exacerbate students' sense of alienation and distrust of authority. James Comer and Alain Poussaint, two of the nation's leading child psychologists, warn that overly harsh punishment "either destroys a child's spirit, has no effect at all, worsens the problem, or makes it more difficult for you to work with the child in school -- he or she no longer trusts you."

For those teenagers already disengaging from school, suspensions are particularly counterproductive. During a developmental period when their most urgent need is to connect and form trusting relationships, these sanctions isolate them from the only community they may know. Susan Black, education research consultant, has noted that "these kids often interpret suspension as a one-way ticket out of school -- a message of rejection that alienates them from ever returning to school." The ensuing chain reaction is depressingly predictable: school failure, dropping out, arrest and incarceration.

Now what good is a form of "discipline" which is likely to create more problems in the future? Remember the recent thread about prison and reoffending? Wouldn't it be a good idea to avoid something which may well "lead to disobedience, lawlessness and eventually anarchy"??

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Are you taking the p*ss?Are you really one of those parents that undermines the school's authority?Are you being tongue in cheek?

I hope so because if you are serious you are every teacher's and every decent caring parent's nightmare.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

i think someone needs a reality check , and its not you coggy ;)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Monster Jedi, you seem to have taken this debate way beyond its remit (and your actions seem questionable, indeed reprehensible; a thinly veiled threat of violence towards the headmaster is setting a good example to your kid?).


Back where we were, a child was denied the opportunity to take an exam, the result of which potentially affects the rest of his life, because he has the wrong footwear on. Whilst the child was maybe daft to breach the rules, application of a bit of common sense would not have gone amiss (Coggy, is that on the PGCE training?! :) ). As Graham pointed out, a quick 'don't do it again' would have enabled the kid to take the exam and marked his card.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

With all due respect he was offered a solution which he turned down.In his shoes(sorry)I would have taken the choice offered and sat the exam in the borrowed shoes.Seems to me, that the ,the,the idiot has his priorities all skewed and would rather cause a stir than face up to how stupid he was.I suspect that the 'child' isn't really bothered about the exam,had a low predicted grade and will never ever try to even sit it later at college.A perfect excuse to cop out in other words.

If he was going to get a predicted A-C grade,had studied,got all the coursework in,I'm pretty damned sure he would have accepted the shoes and got the exam finished and done with.Like many of those on this forum would have done. ;)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Well, after lighting the touchpaper and retiring a safe distance, I think it's time for me to return to the smoking ruin of this thread. :D Sorry I've not been around much.

My 2p ... We have only Mr Chav's word for it that he has been wearing his trainers unchallenged since April. The school admits no-one has challenged him before now, but surely it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the boy is lying through is back teeth? And, even if he has been getting away with it since April, since when does 'getting away with it' for a period of time confer someone the right to ignore rules permanently? He must have known what would happen come the day he did get caught. Boys at my school were made to go about barefoot, or with no socks (if they were caught wearing white ones), but we all knew that is what would happen if caught, so most of us weren't stupid enough to try it.

Secondly, we only have Mr Chav's word for it that he didn't have time to get back to school for the exam. As Coggy has said, had he been sufficiently motivated I'm damn sure he'd have been there. I would have sat the paper barefoot rather than risk missing it. What we have here is someone who didn't care very much, who I doubt will re-sit the paper (I am quite sure that he only said he would in answer to a leading question from the journo that interviewed him; I know exactly how these 'hard luck' stories are written ;) ), and who will add this incident to his long list of reasons why his circumstances are all someone else's fault. And thus the circle of chav life continues. :grind:
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Well, I hope your attitude to the school doesn't rub off on your kids. What kind of example are you setting? Do you really want your children to grow up to be boorish louts who think they can always get their own way by challenging someone to a fight? I can see why you don't like the school's points-based approach to discipline. If your kids have already learned their behaviour from you I expect they will be topping the league table. Sad, sad, sad.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Whilst I think the school have been a bit OTT. The day of an exam is possibly not the best time to enforce trivial rule.

A warning to him to make sure he is in proper dress for the rest of his exams would have sufficed IMO.

but when you get "psycologists" from Grahams post fawning over the poor little children.

These kids have to be taught responsibility, thery have to know what is acceptable and what isn't, they have to know that their actions will have an effect on their futures and we should stop making excuses for them.

I did have to smile at:

and from the article:

It's not just the Daily Mail readers that can jump to conclusions eh Graham?

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I completely agree that the monster's approach to dealing with issues he disagrees with at school is reprehensible. However, do you agree that parents who merely argue with their child's school's approach to discipline can cause as much damage as those who threaten violence?

In my view, parents should not consider disagreeing with their child's school, certainly not so that the child is aware of it, except in the most extreme of circumstances. We may not always agree with the decision the school takes but its overall authority in the eyes of the children is sacrosanct. If that is lost, anarchy reigns, as is too often the case already.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Theres more to this than whats been said. There's too many rules and regulations being shoved down peoples throats. Someone has goto stand up and say "NO".

If what happend to that lad about his exam happends to my lad. I would not hesitate in smacking that person in the mouth. It was plain wrong. What's the piont in comming into a school to sit your final exams and haveing to wear a uniform. It's not going to make you any brighter. It's not going to make you feel better.

As for being a nightmare. To parents no. But to the teacher's yes. And many thanks for that complement;) :D

It's made me feel good :tu: :tu:

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

First, why the "Mr Chav" insult? Immediate assumption the child is in the wrong. Why? Because we are at the moment in a frenzy of demonising young people, with no-one batting an eyelid at such pathetic descriptions as 'feral'. The whole world's gone Daily Mail on us.

We know nothing of this child's background and behaviour so let's not go going making derogatory assumptions.

I can well believe he'd worn these trainers without challenge for weeks. Look at them. How far removed from velcro strap black shoes are they? Not very.

Maybe he should have taken up the offer of a manky pair from lost property.... and maybe the school could have chosen to be a bit more mature. This was not a normal school day when such a move would be more understandable. It was the first exam. I'm sorry, but I think they were nuts.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Interesting points. But are you going to answer my question about arguing with your child's school? :)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

That's not helpful in any way, shape or form

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

In all fairness, the links Graham posted concerned the (potential) effects of a zero tolerance approach. Not this one kid that was not allowed to sit his exam.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Well as a parent myself, to me, you are a bluddy nightmare...And if you ever tried to smack me in the mouth I'd lay you out.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

And are you aware that there are rules that state you can`t go around smacking people in the mouth if you don`t agree with them?

Apparently not :rolleyes:

Wouldn`t it be quite amusing now to see you get an ASBO barring you from that school? I generally don`t agree with them, but in this case I could make an exception.

Mmmm, so your ego is so fragile you require threats of violence to make you feel good.

Perhaps you should consider boarding school for your children, after all, no parent wants their children to be raised in an environment that is adverse to their children's well-being, both physical and *psychological*. Although I strongly suspect that if this is the lesson you demonstrate to your children with regard to how to deal with problems then it is probably too late.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I have, with my partner, argued with my child's school after, for example, the deputy head reacted to my kid and others giggling during a screening of Aladdin (they were bored and who can blame them!!). She told them if their behaviour didn't improve they'd be sent to the special needs teacher and if that didn't work a child psychologist and if that didn't work a Pupil Referral Centre. She then made them stand by a wall during break, in the middle of winter. My boy only had a polo shirt on. The head backed our complaint saying the deputy had over-reacted.

I should add my kid has never been in serious trouble at school and is expected to achieve better than average grades.

With power comes responsibility and sometimes, as in this case, that can seem to be lacking. Sometimes teachers do get it wrong and it is a parent's right to challenge them (though not with fists!). In addition I think it is dangerous to teach your kids to blithely accept authority come what may. Mine are taught to respect their teachers (and are very respectful from what I have seen and heard) and indeed others, but I have no wish for them to become doormats for authoritarian figures in society.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Thank you :) I can't see much to disagree with there ... except possibly to reiterate that for the sake of maintaining the school's authority over my child I'd make very sure, if I needed to challenge the school, that it was done in a circumspect manner and involved him as little as possible. Certainly I'd not sit at the dinner table explaining him how I planned to rip Mr Smith's head off.

Now, as for my assessment of 'Mr Chav'. I think it's self evident to be honest. 'Chav' is a label that fits young people who exhibit a certain pattern of dress and behaviour. Turning up at school in trainers, in brech of rules, and then using the incident as an excuse not to sit an important exam, fit that label so far as I can see.

As for the world going 'Daily Mail' on us ... don't forget that the Mail is the country's best selling mid-market paper because it's the one that best reflects the attitudes and opinions of the middle classes. I think the Mail's editorial line reflects the country's attitudes more than it sets them.

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I've had many problems at my son's school. I have tried to sort things out the normal way threw the channels. The Education Authority. School board of Governors. Passed from one to the other. been to meeting told one then another. My son was getting bullied at school. The school backed the bully. He has loads of friend's and made loads of good allibys. Had the same problem with bully from his previous school. My son got the bully and fractured his jaw. He got excluded for 7 weeks. I smacked his dad in the pub got done for ABH. But I broke his jaw.:D The two boys are now in seperate classes ect.

I am not proud of what Iv'e done expect the bully's dad. I am proud of what my son did. 7yrs of hell was enough. I did what I had to do. It was not something you let go. The system failed me. I tell my son not to use violence only as a last resort.

Should I start a new thread and an opinion poll if I should run as a School Governor??;)

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

I see absolutely no reason to label this child a 'chav' simply because he wears trainers in what looks like a stupidly minor breach of school regulations. There is an unhealthy obession with demonising young people fuelled by the populist right wing press which loves nothing more to righteously stir up a moral panic as they have always done (have a read of Stan Cohen's Folk Devils & Moral Panics for insight into this longstanding phenomena). The Daily Mail and the Express lin particular loves to whip up fear. But following your logic, because the Mail is popular it is right., So Crazy Frog is the best song out at the moment? The Mail succeeds through a blend of very strong features with great appeal in particular with women (where the paper scores against it rivals) and massive investment in editorial and marketing. It is now upping its celeb count in a bid to take some of the Sun's readership. This does not, therefore, necessarily mean it reflects the attitudes of the middle classes. It's a very well put together paper - but no less odious for its professionalism :)
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No, you should go to anger management classes you plonker.

Re: School stands up for discipline and rules
 

Bleh.... we don't know the history do we.

The kid KNEW that they were against the uniform regs and he admitted that - he also said he'd got away with them, but so what, ignorance or not being caught isn't a reason to carry on. They'd presumably also been told to wear full school uniform- which of course includes correct footwear- and if they weren't, they'd be refused entry into exams! In that aspect, the kid had no leg to stand on.

And let's not forget he was also offered a choice. Spare shoes, that DID fit in the regulations- which he turned down for alleged "medical reasons". He had the choice to take the exam in the spare shoes or to not take it in his chavwear, he chose to walk out. Which provokes a few thoughts...
- if he had a genuine medical reason to wear his chavvy trainers, he should have checked
- his condition cleared up quickly enough for him to conform to the rules next time
- if he'd cared about the exam he would have taken the spare shoes and sat the paper

He may have also had warnings about not wearing proper uniform *not necessarily footwear* in the past, the school may also have a zero tolerance policy in exams.

As it stands, we have a brief one-sided account of the incident. It would be interesting to see detailed statements from both sides, and also if there's any history, because apart from what we know, there's little about the incident itself. Personally I feel the school were right sticking up for the rules but OK, if others feel Little Johnny is able to get away with whatever he wants to and has a right to sit exams regardless, etc etc, than that's fair enough- but boy, the PC brigade is really beginning to really **** me off!

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Being one of the PC brigade who actually AGREES with you I'm likely to get upset with you.But I won't-have a greenie. :D

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I would be very careful what you are saying - I doubt anyone on this forum would class me in the "pc brigade", and I would be very insulted if they (or you) did. I think this was a massive over-reaction by the school over a pair of trainers - and TBH - I cannot understand why they insist that you wear "uniform" for exams anyway - no school any of my family have attended required this. You need only turn up for the exams, and wear you normal casual clothes.

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I'm afraid those days have gone Paul..I think it had summat to do with the punk era.. ;) It was thought that some of the gear was a little too OTT and a distraction to examinees.This way they aren't involved in a fashion parade and are concentrating on what's really important.

Mind a little leeway should be made on the account that as students are now about to finish school some year 11's parents DO NOT want to be replacing any item of school uniform that have been outgrown/wornout, because it would be a waste of money..But I'm sure if any parent brought this up BEFORE the exams they may be offered a replacement via the usual school system of good used second hand uniform that is sometimes available through the PTA. :tu:

Believe me when I say that generally teachers DO want their students to pass,but when every child IS told before the exams take place(repeatedly by class teachers and year heads)what to expect...Then pupils must start to take some adult responsibility for their own actions and behaviour.

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I wouldn't. I'm a high ranking officer in the PC Brigade and earned those pips :) Agreed. Of course Kevin Keegan thinks that sometimes footballers brains are in their boots in which case appropriate footwear is in fact necessary! :)

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It was a general comment, not specifically aimed at anyone or even this thread!

As for the uniform... well, it does happen, some schools do enforce a strict code in exams- I know ours did (as I've already said)... it's at their discretion.